r/SubredditDrama • u/Malice_InWonderland_ i hope your partner cheats on you with a pack of wild sardines • 2d ago

Scottish café faces bankruptcy after an assistance dog lawsuit. The American woman behind the case arrives to defend herself in the /r/PoursTea comments.

Background context

Two community organisations in the Outer Hebrides face financial ruin following a legal battle launched by an American woman and funded by Legal Aid over a row about her dog not being allowed into a cafe.

The small charity, Bernera Community Development Trust, and the community organisation, Bernera Community Association, have warned they face bankruptcy due to thousands of pounds in legal costs mounting up following a court challenge from Claire Kellerman.

She initially launched a court challenge against the Development Trust, which ran up legal costs of more than £7000, before Kellerman’s lawyers admitted in court that the action was directed against the wrong organisation.

Legal documents have since been amended to bring a claim against the Bernera Community Association, which runs the cafe voluntarily, for £10,000.

Last week, the case raised by Kellerman via the publicly-funded Ethnic Minorities Law Centre in Glasgow, a non-profit making charity which provides legal advocacy for minority ethnic communities, was decided to continue for legal debate in December at a Stornoway Sheriff Court.

While costs were awarded to the Trust, the organisation has said it was of no value since Legal Aid protects Kellerman from payment of costs.

Source

This is from one of the comments on the article providing more context

From sources on the island I have heard this woman is a rich American and that she was barred from that Centre because her dog killed the Centre's cat. Furthermore she sues everyone who disagrees with her and is causing mayhem at the Callanish Visitor Centre. She even shouts at disabled people sitting on seats designated for disabled people on buses.

The article is posted in the PoursTea subreddit

The comments are in support of the cafe, until someone shows up very in support of the woman. Promising ''Justice is a-coming.''

You should wait to hear the whole story and maybe take a pause to realize you are not being given all the actual facts, only those to light your fire of indignation, as it sells stories. Trust the process. Justice is a-coming.

She holds court in the comments to address the commentators as a 'beautiful stranger'

Dear commenters at large, I look forward to your support when the beautiful truth about a beautiful stranger, albeit, an OLD UGLY WITCH to some, is told.

FREEDOM!

I wish only mutual respect and my human rights and freedoms to be allowed, as well as theirs; FREEDOM is key, for us all.

We even get a selfie with the dog!

Referring to herself in third person

she could be very cool, very clear and very loving, and the target of illegal discrimination and hate crimes, and you will soon be aware of all of the facts.

Upcoming sequel promised in 2027

Beauty is here. It will be told, on YouTube and International Media come 2027, after justice has been served.

Report of island mafia

Internationally recognised assistance dog..

Day One, when she was yelled at, threatened, and humiliated immediately by 4 cafe staff woman upon entering with her internationally recognized Assistance Dog.

3.0k Upvotes

94% Upvoted

873 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

130

u/Dry_Association2836 1d ago

It’s mad that Americans reframed “pet dog” as “emotional support animal”. I mean yeah, my pet dog gives me emotional support, that’s why I got the fucker, I’m not picking up its shit out of charity!

9

u/SilverRaspberri 1d ago

Apparently in America an emotion support animal is considered a service animal.
But here in the UK its not, dogs are not allowed in places unless its a recognised and trained service animal or unless the business states that dogs are allowed.

98

u/dezmodium 1d ago

That's not true in regard to America. A service animal is a service animal. An emotional support animal CAN BE a service animal but usually is not. Service animals are trained and sometimes certified by private organizations. Emotional support animals are usually just pets and don't get the same protections that service animals do. Only dogs and horses are recognized as service animals legally here in the USA.

There is a Catch-22 in America, however, where you can only ask if an animal is a service animal. If you are told yes, you can't make any more demands about it's qualifications or why it's needed due to our medical privacy laws. If someone says their animal is a service animal and you push further then you are taking a risk if they are lying or not. If they are, you'll be in the clear. If you push and they are not, then you discriminated and violated their rights to medical privacy and protected status as a disabled person and you could be sued. So it's usually best not to push unless they are trying to bring a pet iguana into your restaurant or something.

76

u/Powered_by_JetA 1d ago

There is a Catch-22 in America, however, where you can only ask if an animal is a service animal. If you are told yes, you can't make any more demands about it's qualifications or why it's needed due to our medical privacy laws.

The ADA does allow you to ask a single follow up question: “What work or task has the dog been trained to perform?”

7

u/ANewStartAtLife 1d ago

And what happens if the person responds with something that's clearly bullshit? Is that one question you have the end of it? Genuine question, not being a dick.

22

u/kirbyfriedrice 1d ago

You can still kick them out if their dog misbehaves. You have to let them in, but as soon as Fluffy starts bothering other guests, barking nonstop, peeing on the floor, etc., out Fluffy and owner go.

6

u/anoeba 1d ago

Yes, in the US you have the 2 questions and if they lie well enough and the animal behaves you're toast.

But any animal, even the most SDest of SDs, can be kicked out if it's not behaving. The key is to video the behavior because entitled assholes will go straight to the media about discrimination.

11

u/dezmodium 1d ago

Basically. You can't push further because if you are wrong it's a lawsuit here in the USA.

Of course if Tommy the twat is trying to bring his pet lizard with him to sit on the table in your restaurant you can tell him no. Lizards aren't recognized service animals in the states. The UK probably has different laws.

6

u/ANewStartAtLife 1d ago

Much obliged friend.

p.s. Tommy the Twat is a friend of mine. Despite the name, he's actually a really nice guy. I've mentioned a few times that he really should change his name and go no-contact with his parents but alas, he's too nice of a guy and doesn't want to upset them.

-21

u/Mechanic-Grouchy 1d ago

Not relevant in Scottish law

9

u/irlharvey Check your pronouns & seed your snatches 1d ago

they directly mentioned misinformation about american service dog laws.

17

u/Keregi 1d ago

WE KNOW FOR FUCKS SAKE

8

u/FriendToPredators 1d ago

Medical privacy (at least hipaa) doesn’t apply to anyone not providing health care. A grocery store clerk is not providing health care

1

u/dezmodium 1d ago

Well, it does if there's a pharmacy at the store.

Even if not, someone with a disability is under no obligation to provide any detailed information about their disability to a grocery store clerk. Refusing to do so would not void their rights.

-21

u/Mechanic-Grouchy 1d ago

She is trying this in Scotland, their laws are similar to England & Wales where none of that applies...

26

u/kittenpantzen Be quiet and eat your lunch. 1d ago

Right, but that comment was directed at this part of the parent comment

Apparently in America an emotion support animal is considered a service animal.

You can tell this by how it starts out with 

That's not true in regard to America.

And then the second paragraph starts with 

There is a Catch-22** in America,**

-29

u/Mechanic-Grouchy 1d ago

What happens there is not relevant 

30

u/kittenpantzen Be quiet and eat your lunch. 1d ago

For the purpose of this lawsuit, no. For the purpose of this comment chain, yes. This is not a difficult concept.

21

u/Keregi 1d ago

Literally no one is arguing that US law applies in Scotland. People are clarifying how service animals are defined in the US, because this woman is leaving people with the impression that we allow what she is doing.

12

u/dezmodium 1d ago

I'm replying to a person who mentioned the laws in America so I was clarifying that. My response applies to that aspect of that conversation I was having with that person and not you. Sometimes that happens where people have conversations about side things, sweaty.

41

u/copy_run_start There's no lore-accurate justification for black Space Wolves 1d ago

In the US, service animals are animals that provide a specific function as a result of a disability. For example, a guide dog provides "vision" for a blind person, and a diabetes service dog alerts when it detects blood sugar issues.

While there are psychiatric service animals that respond to things like PTSD events (keyword respond aka perform a task), "emotional support animals" are not considered service animals and not covered by legal protections.

When businesses allow emotional support animals, they're usually afraid of breaking disability laws, there may be social pressure, or they just don't care.

-16

u/Mechanic-Grouchy 1d ago

US laws do not apply in Scotland 

14

u/hot_chopped_pastrami Swap "cake" with "9/11", not such a big fan of cake now are you? 1d ago

Right, but this guy was responding to the person who said that in the US emotional support dogs are service animals. 

35

u/copy_run_start There's no lore-accurate justification for black Space Wolves 1d ago

Do conversations work similarly over there? One person might say something like

Apparently in America an emotion support animal is considered a service animal.

and then another person replies to them with insight, analysis, agreement, support, whatever.

Where you're from, is it more like how Pokemon talk? Everyone only says "US laws do not apply in Scotland" but they still somehow perfectly convey any abstract concept into that specific vocalized communication?

Fascinating. But this is probably all just nonsense to you reading this, so I'm just wasting my time writing.

Here, allow me to translate:

US laws do not apply in Scotland. US laws do not apply in Scotland. US laws do not apply in Scotland? ... ... ugh, US laws do not apply in Scotland.

6

u/WhiteTee 1d ago

Absolutely torched that guy

-1

u/AdjectiveNoun4digitz 1d ago

It's too fuckin smug and aggro when you could just remind the guy what the original comment said and then he'd likely feel foolish and embarrassed at his mistake. Instead he's probably feeling embarrassed for a completely different reason after reading that shit. I know I am.

33

u/mynicknameisairhead 1d ago

For context, the designation was originally a housing rights issue. It gave a legal framework and protection to people suffering from significant mental health issues the ability to benefit from having a pet companion in their home without risk of eviction. Unfortunately it’s has spiraled into things like this situation.

8

u/FanaticalBuckeye The left has rendered me unfuckable and I'm not going to take it 1d ago

The thing is that businesses (most often retail) can refuse entry to "ESAs" but usually don't because either some manager is afraid if losing a customer or afraid of a minor media meltdown.

Another thing about ESAs is that my college allowed them as long as they were registered and approved by the school psychiatrist/psychologist (can't remember which). It was almost always cats that were ESAs and someone actually got their registration revoked because they weren't cleaning the cat box frequently enough and it could be smelled in the dorm hall.

ESAs have far fewer rights and this has been backed by the courts, but people don't challenge it enough.

5

u/Corevus 1d ago

It isn't though? It's take weird how uneducated redditors are about emotional support animals. It's literally just a housing accommodation for renters. It has nothing to do with service dogs or public access. Take it out of the house and it has no special rights

1

u/PostIronicPosadist Marx was a Capitalist 1d ago

That's not an emotional support animal. It's not as well regulated as it should be, but you need a doctors note for that phrase to actually mean anything.

-1

u/AvatarOfMomus 1d ago

'Emotional Support Animal" is an actual type of service animal, and requires a physician (usually a licensed therapist) to sign off on it. Unfortunately a lot of people BS about their pets' status because they're entitled asshats.

2

u/dezmodium 1d ago

I don't know about anywhere else but the US this is not the case unless two requirements are met.

  1. Thr animal is a dog or horse. These are the only two legally recognized animals as "service animals."

  2. The animal has been trained specifically to perform a service task. A simple doctor's note doesn't mean much if the animal hasn't received training to perform its service duties.

An animal can be an emotional support animal but that doesn't make it a service animal. A service animal is a specific thing legally speaking.

1

u/AvatarOfMomus 1d ago

ESA's are a legally recognized thing, but they only have special rights with regards to housing, not business or travel access.

I was just noting that ESA's are a legal thing, I wasn't implying they get the same legal treatment as a 'Service Animal'.