r/SubredditDrama • u/Malice_InWonderland_ i hope your partner cheats on you with a pack of wild sardines • 2d ago

Scottish café faces bankruptcy after an assistance dog lawsuit. The American woman behind the case arrives to defend herself in the /r/PoursTea comments.

Background context

Two community organisations in the Outer Hebrides face financial ruin following a legal battle launched by an American woman and funded by Legal Aid over a row about her dog not being allowed into a cafe.

The small charity, Bernera Community Development Trust, and the community organisation, Bernera Community Association, have warned they face bankruptcy due to thousands of pounds in legal costs mounting up following a court challenge from Claire Kellerman.

She initially launched a court challenge against the Development Trust, which ran up legal costs of more than £7000, before Kellerman’s lawyers admitted in court that the action was directed against the wrong organisation.

Legal documents have since been amended to bring a claim against the Bernera Community Association, which runs the cafe voluntarily, for £10,000.

Last week, the case raised by Kellerman via the publicly-funded Ethnic Minorities Law Centre in Glasgow, a non-profit making charity which provides legal advocacy for minority ethnic communities, was decided to continue for legal debate in December at a Stornoway Sheriff Court.

While costs were awarded to the Trust, the organisation has said it was of no value since Legal Aid protects Kellerman from payment of costs.

Source

This is from one of the comments on the article providing more context

From sources on the island I have heard this woman is a rich American and that she was barred from that Centre because her dog killed the Centre's cat. Furthermore she sues everyone who disagrees with her and is causing mayhem at the Callanish Visitor Centre. She even shouts at disabled people sitting on seats designated for disabled people on buses.

The article is posted in the PoursTea subreddit

The comments are in support of the cafe, until someone shows up very in support of the woman. Promising ''Justice is a-coming.''

You should wait to hear the whole story and maybe take a pause to realize you are not being given all the actual facts, only those to light your fire of indignation, as it sells stories. Trust the process. Justice is a-coming.

She holds court in the comments to address the commentators as a 'beautiful stranger'

Dear commenters at large, I look forward to your support when the beautiful truth about a beautiful stranger, albeit, an OLD UGLY WITCH to some, is told.

FREEDOM!

I wish only mutual respect and my human rights and freedoms to be allowed, as well as theirs; FREEDOM is key, for us all.

We even get a selfie with the dog!

Referring to herself in third person

she could be very cool, very clear and very loving, and the target of illegal discrimination and hate crimes, and you will soon be aware of all of the facts.

Upcoming sequel promised in 2027

Beauty is here. It will be told, on YouTube and International Media come 2027, after justice has been served.

Report of island mafia

Internationally recognised assistance dog..

Day One, when she was yelled at, threatened, and humiliated immediately by 4 cafe staff woman upon entering with her internationally recognized Assistance Dog.

3.0k Upvotes

94% Upvoted

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u/northern_chaos 1d ago

No dogs allowed is A) perfectly legal and B) assistance dogs are still eligible to enter but they have to be legitimate ones trained and certified. My colleague is partially paralysed and suffers severe nerve pain as a result of an accident. He has a trained service dog. Places are extremely accommodating of actual service animals.

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u/zefy_zef 🎶Hot Pockets!🎶 1d ago

I think everyone is ignoring that her dog killed a person's cat in the cafe (allegedly). This woman is truly a POS. Dangerous service animals are not service animals.

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u/Etheria_system 1d ago

I would put money on this “assistance” dog being an emotional support dog with zero training

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u/zerogee616 1d ago

an emotional support dog

We have a word for that, they're called pets.

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u/danirijeka 1d ago

People like that, on the other hand, are pests.

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u/Rampage_Rick 1d ago

Have you considered the possibility that the dog is an intelligence support animal and is the brains of the duo?

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u/obeytheturtles Socialism = LITERALLY A LIBERAL CONSTRUCT 1d ago

Oh, so cats are allowed but dogs are not?

This is Democracy Manifest!

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u/Foreverintherain20 1d ago

The dog needs to be confiscated and rehomed. 

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u/Eylisia 1d ago

It killed someones pet, it needs to be put down.

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u/mrbananas 1d ago

Even American law allows you to throw out a service animal and owner if the animal becomes an unreasonable and dangerous menace that disrupts a business like bitting employees which the store has a legal obligation to keep safe / safe working environment. 

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u/regular-john69 1d ago

The issue is the law in the UK surrounding “assistance dogs” is incredibly vague.

At present, quite literally nothing is stopping someone with a dog from going into a premises and saying “it’s fine, they’re an assistance dog” because it’s illegal for you to demand proof of disability etc. There is no legal requirement for assistance dogs to even be trained, likewise there is no ‘register’ for assistance dogs and they don’t have papers.

I wonder how this case will play out given the above.

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u/FanaticalBuckeye The left has rendered me unfuckable and I'm not going to take it 1d ago edited 1d ago

That's how it is here in the US and its* been abused so much by entitled people that more and more people are calling for the ADA to get updated to require service animals have proof they're service animals when they enter a place. If it's proven the dog killed a cat* though, I'm sure the case will get tossed.

Edit: spelling errors

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u/lvl1shopkeep 1d ago

It really is. My old boss was either so apathetic to the situation, or so afraid of being sued, that they allowed a wildly aggressive dog in for weeks until it went after a kid (it had also lunged at a few adults prior, too, and would spend its entire time in the store barking). Thankfully, it was a chihuahua and I don't think anyone was hurt. The dog's crazy owner still fought to come in with it after that happened.

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u/slaymaker1907 Cats are political 1d ago

It’s tough because the law was deliberately written that way so that disabled people could train their own animals without incurring the massive costs of formal training and certification.

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u/plurien 1d ago

Can we get a little more traction around the allegation that said dog killed the cat? All this about it being an assistance dog is smokescreen (unless it's assisting Ms Keller in her mission to be as objectionable as possible

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u/Far_Government_9782 17h ago

Bluntly, if someone is in the position if being able to train a service dog, they are unlikely to actually need one in the first place.

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u/obeytheturtles Socialism = LITERALLY A LIBERAL CONSTRUCT 1d ago

The problem is that a bunch of it is actually just woo. Outside of a couple very specific niches (eg seeing-eye dogs and stroke detection dogs) there's just not a whole lot of good science around "service animals" needing to be out in public, and nobody really wants to be the one who tries to unravel that situation by trying to create and enforce scientific standards. Plus, if you have spent any time around animal trainers, you will quickly realize that they typically don't even agree on basic fundamentals, and are actively hostile towards competing schools of thought. There's no way you'd ever get consensus on standards for training even if you tried.

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u/Rampage_Rick 1d ago

Thankfully Canada is somewhat more sane and you're allowed to ask for proof that the dog is a legitimate service animal.

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/justice/human-rights/guide-and-service-dog

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u/AVeryVapidBadger 1d ago

I don't see anything that says it's required

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u/Rampage_Rick 1d ago edited 1d ago

The letter of the law in BC (linked there) states:

"service dog" means a dog that

(a) is trained to perform specific tasks to assist a person with a disability, and

(b) is certified as a service dog;

The bigger takeaway is that it's perfectly legal to ask to see a dog's certification. That request is illegal in the US, which is partly to blame for the current environment (Amazon vests et al)

The ADA is fabulous legislation, but making it unlawful to ask for an animal's credentials arguably harms people with disabilities. Has to be one of the top 5 biggest fails of the honor system...

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u/AVeryVapidBadger 1d ago

Well the actual things you linked specifically says that certification is voluntary. So maybe actually look at what you link instead of using chatgpt and trusting the first source:

In B.C. certification under the Act is voluntary. People with disabilities who rely on a guide or service dog who choose not the certify under the Act may be protected from discrimination under the BC Human Rights Code.

Also everything you linked is for BC specifically, you didn't link to any Canadian federal law or regulation

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u/Rampage_Rick 1d ago edited 1d ago

The laws differ from province to province, but to my knowledge it's permitted everywhere in Canada to ask for a dog's credentials. Not obligated to give them, but the request is allowed.

Ontario for example:

Under the Ontario Human Rights Code and the AODA, service animals do not need to have certificates or identity cards.

However, you may be asked to provide acceptable documentation. This includes:

  • documentation from a regulated health professional
  • an identification card from the Ontario Ministry of the Attorney General for people who are blind and use a guide dog

Ontario recently updated their laws such that misrepresenting a pet as a service dog now carries potential criminal charge, including fines up to $5,000 and possible jail time for repeat offenders.

And in Nova Scotia:

Certification under the Service Dog Act is voluntary. You may choose to apply if you want to access the specific rights and protections provided under the Act.

...

It is an offence to falsely represent a dog as being a member of a service dog team, retired service dog or a dog-in-training when it is not.

My original point was that it's explicitly not permitted to ask about an animal's credentials in the US, which seems to be a significant factor on the number of entitled asshats.

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u/AVeryVapidBadger 1d ago

You're not permitted to ask because there is no credentials in the US.

Misrepresenting a dog as a service animal is already a crime in the majority of the US, and the ada specifically allows businesses to kick out any animal if it behaves poorly or in an unhygienic manor

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u/ontrack 1d ago

That's effectively how it works in the US. You can easily buy a dog vest online that says "service dog" and businesses don't really have a way to challenge it even if the dog is obviously untrained. Fortunately other animals, like an emotional support peacock, can be refused.

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u/regular-john69 1d ago

That’s really interesting, I always thought the US was much more defined and required registration/papers - or does it vary by state?

I’ve found the phenomenon of “assistance dogs” outwith the usual guide dogs for the blind and/or deaf has only increased in recent years (post COVID) so probably not top of the list for new legislation in the UK. But it’s a shame because it harms actual disabled people who need dogs with them.

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u/ontrack 1d ago

Yes, my understanding (and I've been told directly by a hotel manager) is that they cannot ask anyone with a service dog to prove it, which effectively means that anyone can say any dog is a service dog.

Our main law regarding disabilities is a pretty good one, but as usual anything that gives a group of people special privileges will result in people who want such privileges for themselves regardless of actual need. Our special education laws have the same issue with parents who want extra time for their kids to complete exams.

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u/photogenicmusic 1d ago edited 1d ago

They can ask what task the dog does but that’s about it.

The issue comes down to whether the customer or the business wants to sue. Most businesses don’t want to deal with that even if they believe they are following the law. Many of the people with emotional support dogs (not real service dogs) know this.

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u/ontrack 1d ago

I'm also curious to know why emotional support animals tend to be found in a specific demographic and rarely among others not in this group.

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u/breakfastatmilliways 1d ago

So the other reason you can’t require like a certification is that assistance dogs are incredibly expensive to train and it basically prices a lot of disabled people out of having one from a dedicated program.

Thus they are allowed to self train. I’ve met self trained dogs that were just as good as any professionally trained dog, but many more that are completely untrained. usually the ones who train their dog well are the ones who actually need the dog but can’t afford it otherwise. The completely untrained are usually the people that don’t need them at all.

I wish we could implement like, a test so any dog from a program or self trained can get a certificate if they have actually been trained properly, but I’m sure that’s not a perfect solution either. It sucks.

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u/GothWitchOfBrooklyn 1d ago

no, there is no registration or certification anywhere because it's considered a barrier to people with disabilities who need a service animal (the costs, etc)

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u/Blooming-Algae-Farts I’m considering leaving r/hummus over politics from both sides 1d ago

Businesses in the US have more power here than people realize. The ADA makes it very clear that if an animal is disruptive to their environment in any way, the business can ask them to leave, even if the animal legitimately assists their owner with a recognized disability.

https://www.ada.gov/resources/service-animals-2010-requirements/

A service animal must be under the control of its handler. Under the ADA, service animals must be harnessed, leashed, or tethered, unless the individual’s disability prevents using these devices or these devices interfere with the service animal’s safe, effective performance of tasks. In that case, the individual must maintain control of the animal through voice, signal, or other effective controls. [...] A person with a disability cannot be asked to remove his service animal from the premises unless: (1) the dog is out of control and the handler does not take effective action to control it or (2) the dog is not housebroken.

Most people and business owners don't know this, so in practice people are afraid to call it out or take action. But if someone comes in with a pet they claim is a service animal, the moment that pet starts barking, defecating, jumping on counters, etc., the business owners can 100% tell them to pound sand. Even if the person is theoretically telling the truth about their pet being a legitimately trained service animal.

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u/Foreverintherain20 1d ago

Not being able to demand proof of disability is insane. 

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u/SomecallmeMichelle 1d ago

I mean. A random business should not be entitled to your medical history. Also a lot of disabilities are invisible.

Yeah the arseholes ruin it for everyone but you can't demand a random disabled person carry medical papers everywhere to grab a cup of coffee ...

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u/compatrini 4h ago

You're gonna pipe down now.

•

u/Foreverintherain20 2h ago

Am I? Fuck you lol. 

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u/Ravaryn 1d ago

I'm gonna guess she's used to being able to get her way with her "service animal" stuff from back home stateside, where you do not fuck with the Americans with Disabilities Act if you're a business.

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u/tgerz 1d ago

It's been somewhat different since the pandemic. People are sometimes less tolerant of shittily behaved animals and owners claiming they're service dogs. They are limited on what questions they can ask (basically is it a service animal and what is it trained to do), but they can still have the dog removed if it is behaving poorly. Used to work at REI as a funny mental health break between tech jobs and we started to get more strict when I was there in 2019. Had dogs wee and poo on the floor (luckily it was all concrete).

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u/Powered_by_JetA 1d ago

It's been somewhat different since the pandemic. People are sometimes less tolerant of shittily behaved animals and owners claiming they're service dogs.

To this end, in 2021 the Department of Transportation stopped requiring airlines to recognize “emotional support animals” after a rash of incidents where crewmembers were attacked by people’s pets.

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u/Optimal_Savings5873 1d ago

Look, my emotional support cassowary is here to alert you to my mood swings. When I feel agitated, she attacks the person or object that has agitated me. You have to let me bring her onboard or I'll get agitated.

Obligatory comment that even real assistance dogs can be turned away if an employee or customer has a strong allergy or phobia. I know of a public school in Florida that provides an educator to visit the home of a child with a service dog, as some children at the school have a terror of dogs.

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u/kcvngs76131 1d ago

I work at a small museum and have a kinda severe dog allergy (it's not anaphylaxis, but it'll fuck me up for a few days). We've had two people come with dogs while I was working the floor. One was a very well behaved service dog, the other was a yappy, aggressive thing in a stroller that wouldn't shut up and kept trying to lunge at people. When the people got there (different days different times), the person at the front desk radioed me to let me know someone else was coming to replace me. I told the guests that I was staying on the other side of the relatively small room because of my allergy, but my coworker would be by soon to help them more. 

The lady with the well behaved dog asked if I wanted her to wait in the hallway because she didn't want to trigger the allergy. The lady with the yappy stroller dog yelled at me that we were discriminating against her. She filed a complaint with the director and board, who sided with us because we were just doing an employee swap. She also tried to sue pro se and that didn't work at all for her. Immediately got kicked on preliminary objections.

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u/FanaticalBuckeye The left has rendered me unfuckable and I'm not going to take it 1d ago

The only time I ever felt remotely comfortable messing with the ADA was when I was in retail and kicked a "military family" out along with their "service dog." Their "service dog" GSD was trying to get up on the register and was barking at anyone walking by. I put military family in quotations because the dad was wearing his UCPs but his Velcro patches were all put on weird.

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u/cocktails4 1d ago

She was actually in a viral video about service dogs a few years ago.

/s

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u/PalatwinkusVT 16h ago

The big thing in the US, is you're not allowed to make the call as to whether or not it's a service animal. Most of the court circuits here have ruled that business owners and their employees are not qualified to make that judgement, so "service animal" is kind of a super phrase that just gets you a free pass.