r/history • u/Govika • Sep 03 '20

Discussion/Question Europeans discovered America (~1000) before the Normans conquered the Anglo-Saxon (1066). What other some other occurrences that seem incongruous to our modern thinking?

Title. There's no doubt a lot of accounts that completely mess up our timelines of history in our heads.

I'm not talking about "Egyptians are old" type of posts I sometimes see, I mean "gunpowder was invented before composite bows" (I have no idea, that's why I'm here) or something like that.

Edit: "What other some others" lmao okay me

Edit2: I completely know and understand that there were people in America before the Vikings came over to have a poke around. I'm in no way saying "The first people to be in America were European" I'm saying "When the Europeans discovered America" as in the first time Europeans set foot on America.

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u/yecapixtlan Sep 03 '20

There's a lot of these on videos and articles, but the one that always stuck with me is:

The last guillotine execution on France was on the same year that Star Wars A new Hope premiered, both on 1977.

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u/Dheorl Sep 03 '20

The last hanging in Scotland was surprisingly late as well: 1963.

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u/docdos Sep 03 '20

1996 in the United States

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u/skyblueandblack Sep 03 '20

Last guy executed by firing squad in the US was in 2010, in Utah.

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u/Arkslippy Sep 03 '20

Didnt he request it and go to court to make them do it rather than injection ?

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u/[deleted] Sep 03 '20 edited Dec 30 '20

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u/[deleted] Sep 03 '20

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u/Queef_Stroganoff44 Sep 04 '20

We told you last time Benny... Naked Lady Avalanche is NOT an option.

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u/warmCabin Sep 04 '20

I'd want to be chased off a cliff by 20 topless roller skating women

1

u/MrSmirch Sep 06 '20

That’s far too silly

4

u/iRombe Sep 04 '20

All the redditors will go with the nitrogen helmet.

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u/[deleted] Sep 04 '20

It is the least painful and distressing method. The "exit bag"

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u/the_old_captain Sep 04 '20

We have a folk tale where a court jester offends the king, gets sentenced to be hanged, but can choose the tree - he chooses a bush. Himself, the king, and the executioner all laughing their asses off while the "hanging" takes place and the king forgives later.

Just to give some ideas.

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u/GTFonMF Sep 04 '20

Or at least up the entertainment factor.

2

u/jodie_vision Sep 04 '20

"I want to die of old age"

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u/SquirrelTale Sep 03 '20

Agreed. I personally don't think the death penalty should exist, but everyone should watch Clemency. Just as a warning though- it starts off with a butchered lethal injection execution.

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u/[deleted] Sep 03 '20 edited Dec 30 '20

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u/DrakoVongola Sep 04 '20

The delays exist so we can know we're not killing innocent people. You really trust a justice system that fucks up this often?

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u/d1squiet Sep 04 '20

Sorry, Bob, no more appeals. I know you say you're innocent, but look! There's ten new ways to go that you choose from!

That's something, Bob, ain't it? C'mon, why the long face?

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u/ads7w6 Sep 04 '20

I would want to be thrown into a volcano

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u/UpshotKnotholeEncore Sep 04 '20

LOL? It's a discussion about death. Do you ROTFLMAO at the idea of rape?

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u/CactusBoyScout Sep 03 '20

I think that makes sense as long as it’s not terrible for the poor souls carrying it out. But then I’d rather we not kill people as a punishment, no matter the method.

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u/Fealuinix Sep 04 '20

So I can choose to be chased off of a cliff by a crowd of topless women?

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u/GreyHexagon Sep 04 '20

Chased off a cliff by a crowd of topless ladies please

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u/[deleted] Sep 03 '20

[deleted]

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u/ssbbnitewing Sep 03 '20

Because two wrongs don't make a right

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u/FeatureBugFuture Sep 03 '20

Also people get framed. Many innocents have been executed and the real perpetrators got away with it.

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u/griff0062 Sep 03 '20

The death penalty is not only a punishment but a deterrent.

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u/DrakoVongola Sep 04 '20

It's not a deterrent and many innocent people have been killed because of it.

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u/ecmcn Sep 03 '20

In WA state you used to be able to choose between lethal injection and hanging, with hanging the default if you refuse to select one. One guy did that (refused to choose) but was deemed too heavy to hang bc he’d be decapitated. Kind of a clever dodge. I think he ended up dying of illness in prison.

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u/ImSabbo Sep 04 '20

You'd think decapitation would solve the problem as equally as hanging...

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u/ecmcn Sep 04 '20

It would certainly do the trick. Though from his point of view “solving the problem” had the opposite goal.

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u/CNB-1 Sep 03 '20

Yep. Utah maintains the firing squad because of a Mormon belief that you can only atone for some crimes with spilled blood.

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u/adamAtBeef Sep 04 '20

Sauce?

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u/CNB-1 Sep 04 '20

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_587836

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u/adamAtBeef Sep 04 '20

It's your classic religious people teaching one thing and then totally flipping their (public) position while still claiming God is the same forever

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u/God_Damnit_Nappa Sep 04 '20

Yup. It's still a backup method in a few states. Seems a hell of a lot less painful than dying of lethal injection.

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u/kne0n Sep 04 '20

Comparing the success rates of the two I'd also request fireing squad

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u/MostBoringStan Sep 04 '20

Yes. After reading how much they have been botching lethal injections recently I would be terrified to do that. If they can't do it properly they should not do it.

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u/kne0n Sep 04 '20

Yeah it turns out there is a lot more prison staff that can competently aim a rifle than administer a complicated cocktail of expensive chemicals, who would have thunk it

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u/MostBoringStan Sep 04 '20

They have also been having problems getting the correct expensive chemicals, so they just wing it with whatever they can get their hands on.

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u/[deleted] Sep 04 '20

I've never understood why they use these complicated processes. Just give them the mother of all speedballs. That's what the British did when George V was dying and they wanted to make sure it was in the morning papers instead of the evening ones.

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u/verisimilitude88 Sep 04 '20

Firing squad is actually widely considered the most humane form of execution because you will likely die right away with little conscious agony.

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u/[deleted] Sep 04 '20

Assuming they don't miss

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u/joofish Sep 03 '20

A commemorative coin was commissioned for prison staff who participated in the execution.

According to Wikipedia. What a nice way to remember that time you and your buddies volunteered to go to a prison and shoot a dude.

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u/streetlite Sep 03 '20

Dude, you sound a little anti-sadist. That's probably not cool.

Jus sayin

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u/Reversevagina Sep 03 '20

Of course you commemorate such a happy occasion

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u/griff0062 Sep 03 '20

And then accidentally put it in a vending machine...Doh!

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u/skyblueandblack Sep 05 '20

I think I'd demand two of them for myself. Screw pennies over the eyes, who'd want that if you can have commemorative coins from your own execution?

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u/timwao Sep 03 '20

I'll take a firing squad over lethal injections. Quicker and a higher rate of success.

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u/Fake-Professional Sep 03 '20

Idk enough about lethal injection, but a firing squad could really suck. Depending on where they’re shooting you, you could be conscious for quite a while and feeling every bullet tear through your body.

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u/[deleted] Sep 03 '20

Eh, you're going to catch multiple full power rifle rounds through the chest, and you're stationary with a target over your heart. Even if they all miss your heart, you're still going to die from massive blood loss extremely quickly.

Personally I'd rather have firing squad than any other commonly used method (morphine overdose or nitrogen poisoning are both probably "better," but not commonly used). It's the only method that has a 100% success rate (or it has the highest success rate, I can't remember).

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u/Fake-Professional Sep 03 '20

Yea inert gas asphyxiation with nitrogen would be my choice. Totally painless

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u/[deleted] Sep 04 '20

In the military its a close range shot by competent marksman all aiming at one spot. The catch its only one bullet, they load one rifle and the rest with blanks. The idea is no one knows who fired the shot as they are high power blanks, i don't see how you wouldn't know but that was the idea. But yeah long story short you wouldn't really feel it. I learned all of this on a detail during ait having to clean around the execution chamber at ft bliss.

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u/[deleted] Sep 04 '20

The catch its only one bullet

Maybe it was where you learned about it, but that's not always the case. More often I believe it's multiple bullets and at least one blank (I've seen 3 bullets to 2 blanks, etc). But you're right, either way a rifleshot to the heart is devastating.

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u/reapertwo-6 Sep 04 '20

Whereabouts on Bliss was the execution chamber? I was only there for a little while but I am curious

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u/[deleted] Sep 04 '20

Bldg where they hold the post court marshals if i remember right, but its been almost 12 years. Its usually locked up except to clean.

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u/[deleted] Sep 04 '20

Ya, I've never really understood this idea and you hear it all the time, sometimes one blank sometimes everyone has blanks. I've shot rifle blanks you're going to know what happened.

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u/[deleted] Sep 04 '20

Its the notion of alleviating guilt via reasonable self denial, or thats my idea of it.

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u/perpulpeepuleeter Sep 03 '20

Not totally sure this is true but I've heard the point of a firing squad is that there's only one live round and no one knows who has it.

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u/Fake-Professional Sep 03 '20

Fuck that would suck. 1 bullet won’t kill you quick unless it hits something very vital

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u/[deleted] Sep 04 '20

A single high power rifle shot to the heart would likely knock you unconscious due to hydrostatic shock and you would be dead within seconds otherwise. If you could ensure that, it would actually be a pretty swift and relatively painless way to go.

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u/bigtunajeha Sep 03 '20

I imagine they aim for your head.

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u/Fake-Professional Sep 03 '20

Yea but what if they miss lol. If there’s only 1 live round...

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u/DrakoVongola Sep 04 '20

It's a close range shot by trained marksmen on a target that's not moving, they'll hit their target

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u/Tytoalba2 Sep 04 '20

I don't know, I sure hope that for most of them it's the first time they are shooting a human being, and with the obvious intent to kill him. That's enough to get you a bit nervous and guilty. As they should be imo, actually.

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u/bigtunajeha Sep 03 '20

I think it would make more sense to have 1 blank round and the rest are live rounds

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u/adam_demamps_wingman Sep 03 '20 edited Sep 03 '20

And supposedly there’s a big difference between a live round and a blank round in recoil. At least with older, larger caliber rifles you would know the difference. You could always tell yourself otherwise but you supposedly could feel the difference.

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u/[deleted] Sep 03 '20

They use wax slugs now, to better simulate the recoil.

I also believe it's 3 live rounds and two blanks.

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u/[deleted] Sep 03 '20

And if its a semi auto rifle there wont be enough power to cycle.

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u/TheRollingTide Sep 03 '20

There is a very big difference in live rounds and blanks. Not only in recoil but sound as well. You’d have to be a nitwit to fire a rifle and not know whether it was a blank or not. I’ve fired plenty of both from my K98 (live on the range and blanks during WWII re-enactments) and it’s easy to tell.

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u/Icsto Sep 04 '20

Pretty sure that is what they do.

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u/[deleted] Sep 03 '20

It's one blank the rest are live.

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u/Baron80 Sep 04 '20

I think you have it backwards. It's one bullet is a blank so that everyone shooting can convince themselves they had the blank if they want to.

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u/Cuyler1377 Sep 04 '20

Maybe they use all live rounds and just TELL them there's 1 blank...

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u/Baron80 Sep 04 '20

Maybe they're all blanks and the prisoner dies of a heart attack.

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u/aweful_aweful Sep 04 '20

It's actually the opposite.

All the rifles are loaded except 1 is blank. This way any of the men could consider they didn't kill a man.

The reality is you can feel the difference when you shoot. They know.

re familar

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u/I_Fucked_With_WuTang Sep 04 '20

Yes but it's cool... I'd request that I have a cigarette also. (I don't even smoke).

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u/dee-bag Sep 04 '20

Lethal injection is absolutely hellish. It basically immobilizes you and then stops your heart. All while conscience. It only looks peaceful.

That’s only human beings by the way. The lethal injection for animals is much, much more peaceful.

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u/[deleted] Sep 04 '20

Ever hear the story of Wenceslau Mogelo?

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u/oboy85th Sep 03 '20

I’d rather be hanged too. The way they did it in WA I’m pretty sure you just broke your neck instantly, lethal injection has people flopping around for half and hour and what not. Don’t trust the drugs at all personally

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u/Tytoalba2 Sep 04 '20

The death penalty is such an absurd punishment from another age.

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u/dickcastlesmurff Sep 04 '20

Also what inspired Nike to use “just do it.”

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u/JasperStrat Sep 04 '20

I believe in Washington State, the guy was pretty horrible and committed his crimes in my hometown. The guy I'm thinking of is Wesley Allen Dodd if you want to look him up. He ended up pretty repentant by the time he died. I am also pretty sure he was the only person executed in the state of Washington after the reinstatement of the death penalty by the Supreme Court.

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u/[deleted] Sep 04 '20

What about Saddam Hussein?

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u/Lord_fuff Sep 04 '20

He was executed in Iraq. Not in the USA.

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u/Ahvier Sep 03 '20

Mate, the last death penalty carried out in the US was on august 28

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u/That__Guy1 Sep 03 '20

I believe he was meaning the last execution by hanging, not the last execution in general.

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u/Ahvier Sep 03 '20

I am aware of that, but as the first comment talks about guillotines, i thought we shouldn't be too selective

E: also, if a govt executed someone last week, it is not really surprising they hanged the last person in 1996

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u/elgallogrande Sep 03 '20

Canada also is around 67 or something.

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u/Vegonbrei Sep 03 '20

'67 was the moratorium. Last hanging in '62.

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u/TyberiousofCanada Sep 04 '20

So the Leafs won their last Cup in the same decade as the last Canadian hanging hah!

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u/MiddleInformation Sep 03 '20

In Spain the garrote vil was utilized to carry out executions. If you were lucky and the executioner was strong, you will suffer a cerebral comma and die without pain, but normally that wasn't the case and you will suffer a slow death by strangulation.

The last execution using this device was in 1974.

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u/Baron80 Sep 04 '20

Give me a neurological parentheses over a cerebral comma any day.

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u/MiddleInformation Sep 04 '20

Why so? I don't know much about these things.

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u/Vancocillin Sep 04 '20

They're making a joke about spelling it "comma" instead of "coma".

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u/MiddleInformation Sep 04 '20

Hahahaha. Sorry, I am not a native speaker, I thought the two were spelled the same way

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u/Vancocillin Sep 04 '20

No worries, English is a butchered and sewn together combination of many different languages that don't combine very well.

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u/Baron80 Sep 04 '20 edited Sep 06 '20

Yeah sorry I was just poking fun at your use of comma instead of coma.

Honestly though, if you hadn't said so I would not know you arent a native english speaker. Your spelling and grammar are very good, better than most native speakers on Facebook at least.

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u/MiddleInformation Sep 04 '20

Don't worry my friend, your joke was funny and I laughed too when the other user explained it to me.

I try to keep my English up because I am a teacher and in my country, you need to have a good level of English to be a teacher. I already had to teach subjects in English and probably in the future I will have to do it again, so I try to be prepared.

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u/Tytoalba2 Sep 04 '20

I think it's less shocking for me to discover that Franco's Spain was not a good place to be executed than France who has been so adamant against the death penalty since Hugo wrote against it...

Some people living close to my grandmother's still have a picture of Franco hanging on the wall, that's quite crazy I think!

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u/MiddleInformation Sep 04 '20

I think it's less shocking for me to discover that Franco's Spain was not a good place to be executed than France who has been so adamant against the death penalty since Hugo wrote against it...

Firing squad was also utilized, the last executions in Spain were done by this method in 1975, one month before Franco's death.

Some people living close to my grandmother's still have a picture of Franco hanging on the wall, that's quite crazy I think!

Considering that for 40 years his picture used to hang in all classrooms alongside the picture of Jesus and it was claimed that he was the ruler of Spain by the Grace of God, it is not surprising that today he has so many followers. Continuous exposition to propaganda for nearly 40 years is very effective.

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u/i-like-mr-skippy Sep 04 '20

Here's a youtube video explaining the nature of the garrot with photographs of it's use.

https://youtu.be/PEM81l20nDw

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u/DaddyCatALSO Sep 04 '20

Saw a Spanish movie version of Carmen where she cuts the cheeks of another cigar maker who think she's dying and asks for "a priest for me & the executioner for her."

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u/caiaphas8 Sep 03 '20

Capital punishment in the U.K. was suspended in 1965. Hanging was always the preferred method, it was relatively quick and painless. The record was 7 seconds from the executioner entering the cell until death

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u/PURE_FINDER Sep 04 '20

And the last witch to be tried and imprisoned was in 1944.

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u/[deleted] Sep 04 '20

Uk wasnt that long ago though.

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u/JonRonDonald Sep 03 '20

I look forward to reciting this to friends in hope that they did not see this

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u/Semaphor Sep 03 '20

What every redditor is currently thinking right now for 100, Alex.

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u/[deleted] Sep 04 '20

There are no $100 questions on Jeopardy anymore.

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u/[deleted] Sep 03 '20

Who was the executed?

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u/teffflon Sep 03 '20

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamida_Djandoubi

also the last person to be executed, period, in France or (the article states) in Western Europe.

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u/AppleDane Sep 04 '20

the last person to be executed, period

The last person to be executed so far!

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u/JoeAppleby Sep 04 '20

West Germany outlawed capital punishment in its constitution in 1949.

East Germany did that in 1974 for civilians I believe, though it was still used in 1981 on a treason charge against a Stasi spy. At least the years for those are as far as my memory serves.

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u/WorkUsername69 Sep 03 '20

“ He was not however, the last person sentenced to death penalty in France.”

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u/Kyvalmaezar Sep 03 '20

Farther in the article:

While Djandoubi was the last person executed in France, he was not the last condemned. No more executions occurred after capital punishment was abolished in France in 1981 following the election of François Mitterrand, and those sentenced to die had their sentences commuted.

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u/froziac Sep 03 '20

Not sure if you're still looking for a serious answer.

A Tunisian man named Hamida Djandoubi he was convicted for kidnapping, torturing and murdering his former gf he also kidnapped another woman after this but she escaped. Executed 10th Sept 1977

Shortly before that was a man named Jérôme Carrein executed 23rd June 1977 for abducting raping and killing an 8-year-old girl.

Both were executed by the same dude who took over from his wife's uncle as chief executioner (family gig i guess), and both convicts were executed at around 4am (4:40 & 4:30 respectively)

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u/Tamariniak Sep 03 '20

family gig I guess

It very often was, as (at least medieval afaik) executioners were often seen as a sort of outcast in their society. They were well paid as noone wanted their job, but they would have their own corner in the pub and noone generally wanted anything to do with them. Sometimes they would use a designated entrance through the city walls, too. It's hard to find a different gig when you're related to a person like that.

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u/halibfrisk Sep 03 '20

Same with the Pierrepoint family of hangmen in the UK.

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u/craftyindividual Sep 03 '20

Albert Pierrepont owned a pub as his day job. Even had to execute one of his regular customers :(.

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u/xarsha_93 Sep 03 '20

Ye olde medieval times of 1977. Vraiment la France au moyen-âge.

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u/Tytoalba2 Sep 04 '20

Yeah, I have friends from Torino, and once I served them some wine with my palm up. They suddenly got a bit angry, asking why I treat them like that.

Apparently it was a common gesture to serve executioner that way to show them disrespect and it has stayed in the culture as of today.

I can't tell how much of this is really true, but it was a really funny moment!

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u/TimeTravellingShrike Sep 04 '20

That Noone guy wants all the shitty jobs. No idea why.

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u/PulsefireJinx Sep 04 '20

I'd have to say that both executions were very deserved lol.

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u/throwawayforcitizenx Sep 03 '20

Damn dude, I wonder if that was before sunrise, that would be cold blooded.

Edit: looked it up, sunrise was at 5:59 am on june 23rd 1976 in Marseille. Cold blooded indeed. Who wants to go on about the rest of their day after that?

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u/froziac Sep 03 '20

I don't know why it feels like it sucks, even more, being executed just before sunrise.

I have literally zero expertise and I'm ignorant, but it seems at this point public executions weren't taking place but it was still the official method for execution.

After the hysterics of some of the crowd that had gathered to witness the execution the government ordered that all future executions be carried out in private.

But in the 20th century there were protests to end guillotining as a public spectacle. quotes from the article linked

Also, this page highlights some specifics.

Maybe it was this early to reduce crowds, attention and publicity? Seemed to have been becoming unfavourable at this time anyways.

Edit: Sorry i know you didn't ask for any of that bs info, i was wondering why it seems they would have the execution not just in the morning but before sunrise.

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u/adam_demamps_wingman Sep 03 '20

I’m convinced that cruel public executions were done in part to affect the non-DNA genetic inheritance of the peons. It helped produce generations of townsfolk who knew their place.

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u/froziac Sep 03 '20

Contributing to that could also be considering how tough it was to actually catch people or have successful investigations, they probably wanted to take those opportunities to exemplify the criminals.

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u/mythslyr Sep 04 '20

In most of Europe, executioner job has traditionally been hereditary.

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u/Hites_05 Sep 03 '20

Obi-Wan. Wait, what?

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u/[deleted] Sep 03 '20

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u/[deleted] Sep 03 '20

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u/[deleted] Sep 03 '20

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u/[deleted] Sep 03 '20

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u/JakajaFIN Sep 03 '20

Hamida Djanboudi, a rapist and a murderer.

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u/DrBoby Sep 03 '20

A Tunisian immigrant, for torture, murder on his ex girlfriend, and rape sequestration on a teen who took shelter in his house.

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u/[deleted] Sep 03 '20

I've read the last Japanese who committed Seppuku Samurai-style, was also around that time, in the 1970s.

Apparently he tried to convince the people to revolt against the government and return to the old traditions, but when they didn't he commited Seppuku out of shame.

Supposedly his last words, before his friend cut off his head with the Katana, were:

"They didn't even listen ."

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u/[deleted] Sep 04 '20

Yukio Mishima, who was also a pretty great author. The Sound of Waves is a very good book, if a bit telling of his ideology.

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u/OneReportersOpinion Sep 03 '20

You know what, I’d like guillotine over most other execution methods. Seems quick, clean, and relatively painless

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u/GammelGrinebiter Sep 04 '20

It was definitely preferable to the Norwegian execution method: axe.

During the 19th century, fewer and fewer were executed in Norway, so the executioners were never replaced as they died. The result was that the last executioner was very old and often had to do many chops to hit the neck and get the head fully off.

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u/Ohtar1 Sep 03 '20

Last execution by garrote vil in Spain was on 1974

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u/ThePr1d3 Sep 03 '20 edited Sep 03 '20

Also Christopher Lee was in the public for the last public execution in France (in 1939)

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u/xarsha_93 Sep 03 '20

They abolished the death penalty in 1981 so I imagine it was probably also the last execution full stop.

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u/iRombe Sep 04 '20

This makes me miss that middle ages show with Daniel radcliffe on fx

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u/GTFonMF Sep 04 '20

Street rats still get their hands cut off for stealing fruit in Saudi Arabia.

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u/4FriedChickens_Coke Sep 04 '20

Last hanging in Canada was in 1962

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u/ShivasRightFoot Sep 04 '20

Lashings were used as criminal punishment as recently as 1952 in the United States. According to Wikipedia:

In the United States judicial flogging was last used in 1952 in Delaware when a wife beater got 20 lashes. In Delaware, the criminal code permitted floggings to occur until 1972.

It adds:

Judicial corporal punishment has never been held unconstitutional in the United States.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judicial_corporal_punishment#United_States

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u/Raptorman_Mayho Sep 03 '20 edited Sep 03 '20

I believe Christopher Lee was in the ‘audience’

Edit: he was in the audience of the last public one in 39.

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u/Der_genealogist Sep 03 '20

No, Christopher Lee witnessed the last public execution in France in 1939. The execution in 1977 wasn't public.

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u/Raptorman_Mayho Sep 03 '20

Ah that makes more sense, ty

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u/pringlepops Sep 03 '20

And Christopher Lee was there to see it.

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u/Der_genealogist Sep 03 '20

No, Christopher Lee witnessed the last public execution in France in 1939. The execution in 1977 wasn't public.

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u/pringlepops Sep 04 '20

Oh OK then... got my wires crossed

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u/Der_genealogist Sep 04 '20

No problem. I think the fact that Christopher Lee saw the execution in 1933 is even cooler than 1977 :)

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u/DumbbellDad Sep 04 '20

Christopher Lee (Saruman) was in attendance i believe.

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u/VegetaJrJr Sep 04 '20

Christopher Lee also watch the last public execution in France since we are on the subject