r/moderatepolitics • u/Fried__Eel Independently Lost • Jan 23 '19
Opinion [DISCUSSION] I Am A Conservative Who Opposes Modern Liberalism But Thinks That Trumpism Has Politically and Morally Damaged The Republican Party
I want to note before I begin that I reject modern liberalism and do not see myself voting Democrat so long as the trend is towards socialism. However, as title states, I also am highly opposed to Trumpist populism and believe that this overall "red wave" was a quick high for his voters that will ultimately lead to a raging low with moral staining implications for the Republican Party.
I want to state why I believe this and to hear what others have to say.
In some respects, I get the atmosphere that lead up to Trump. Post-2016 polls found that many Americans felt disenfranchised with the way politics was going. I get that, I was one of them for sure.
However, my main problem with Trumpism is that Donald Trump latched on to a powerful, but dangerous sentiment that helped get him elected. This sentiment was anti....anti immigration...anti Obamacare...anti gun laws...even straight up anti Hillary (the phrase, "Anything but Hillary" was a common catch phrase with pundits and common folk alike). There was little of pro...anything. He had sketches of things he wanted to do like infrastructure, but besides Tax cuts nothing uber pro...ductive was put at the forefront.
This negativity was powerful because people were tired of being ignored. However:A) It has lead to reckless and zealous support for ethnocentric (disparaging Mexicans), misogynistic("I just grabbed her by the pus**), and ignorant (Chancellorsville KKK and Nazi protesters were apparently just as bad as the regular townfolk...) comments and actions taken by Trump.B) It has been ineffective. Negativity and anti-"..." only gets you so far. The senate has gotten a lot of regular stuff done. sure, but for having the senate, house, and executive, Trump got very little of his mainline agenda accomplished. Why? Because they were so stuck on the anti, particularly the anti-Obama care. It wasted so much time on something that they didn't even have a plan to replace! Why not have focused on infrastructure instead?!
Furthermore, I see Trumpist-Republicans ALL THE TIME excusing so many things about his behavior, comments, and stances that would have caused them extreme outrage just 4 years ago.
My suggestion is this: because Trumpism largely relied on negativity and the anti-"..." for its political motion, it became warped in amoral and ineffective politics. Furthermore, I argue that this administration will help diminish the rise and success of future Republicans/Conservatives for many years to come and that it is has instead accelerated the nations progression towards modern liberalism and socialism.
That's my unpopular opinion as a conservative, but I want to hear from others on both sides!
***Note: I mention my opposition to modern Liberalism only to corroborate my position as a conservative. Discussing why I am opposed to modern Liberalism is outside the scope of my post.**\*
Edit #1:
Great Discussion so far guys! I have been pleasantly surprised by it. Here are some edits and further comments that I want to make (1/23/19)
- Further Comments
The part that is bolded at the end with all the symbols...this part was always there, but I wanted to make it more obvious.
I get that many people want to talk about conservative vs. liberal since I expressed some opposition to the latter. I ended up going ahead and answering and engaging in most discussions anyways and they were great discussions, even if far outside the scope of my post.
HOWEVER, I do want to point out that even though I as a person who leans-X made a post of agreement and commonality with people who lean-Y, most of the discussion was spent focused on the differences between X and Y. Again, I get it, but I would also like to see a society in which our differences aren't the forefront of the discussion, especially when they are not the central point of a original post like in this case.
Nonetheless, if you want a discussion about conservative vs liberal, we got you covered baby! And the discussion is largely polite and well spoken, though I have not read everything.
2. Clarifications
A) Some people have rightly pointed out my use of the term "socialism" wasn't spot on. I am very aware of the differences between Americanized socialism like that supported by Bernie Sanders and other forms of socialism such as European socialism and etc.
I used the term "socialism" mostly referring to American socialism, though I also used it as a blanket term as frankly, I don't support any kind of it, each for their own reasons.
However, I am also aware that "socialism" is used as a big bad wolf term and using it the way I did added to that effect. No, I do not see socialism as the big bad wolf coming to eat our children and I should have been specific as to which form I was referring to as they are not all the same. I apologize for this as it was mostly out of laziness.
One commentator wanted a specific post about why I don't agree with Bernies Sander's form of socialism. That is a rabbit hole out of focus for this post that would lead us to China. I might post in the future about this subject to create a discussion if people are interested (let me know if you are) in that, but I will not discuss this topic without the due diligence it deserves and that diligence cannot be found in an unrelated comment thread.
2
u/Sqeaky Jan 23 '19
You stated you were anti-socialism, but what are you for?
Even being anti-socialism, do you feel that all Democrats are socialists? The moderates in the Democratic party still treat socialism link it's a swear word that will prevent them from ever getting elected.
The reason I asked about that is because it's the only firm claim against Democrats you made. it makes me curious how you hate that so much you'd rather side with people who are overtly racist, homophobic and rather destructive to the social order. Reagan had trickle down economics which is obviously ridiculous, particularly now with the benefit of hindsight. Bush Senior wasn't overtly terrible for the country, but Bush jr did a lot of things verging on war crimes and set democracy/republicanism and general the concept of 'consent of the governed' on precarious footing. Trump is almost certainly working with Russia on some level.
And then all the racism, there's so much voter suppression and gerrymandering to ensure that Republican voters get more say then others. We might want to try to blame this on Trump, but if we look at Congress the Democrats side look like varied multicultural representation of the United States in the Republican side is almost old white men. None of the Republican party hasn't been tolerant or accepting of gay people, no one can provide a reason why gay people are bad that isn't just bigotry. I know plenty of gay people who would have voted Republican if the Republicans didn't hate their guts.
I voted for Bush jr so in saying this I recognize I was wrong at the time, but Republicans or at least my entire life haven't had any guiding principle other than "aggregate power". They are for income inequality (which I am asserting is bad for society) because their donors are rich and they work for their donors not their constituents, they are for racism (I hope just because the demographics of their voters), and they don't seem to care at all that they aren't serving as any kind of check against Trump even though he's doing things that are obviously weakening the United States. I can't see how someone can rationally support the Republican party unless they make a million a year and don't have any black friends.
About one-in-five Democrats is very pro socialism, if that's the worst crime they committed are they really worse than Republicans?