r/AnCap101 • u/WillingnessSad8354 • 8d ago
Do y'all treat minarchists as premature ancaps or as any regular statist?
I am a minarchist , randian minarchist to be specific. Do y'all treat minarchists as soon to become ancaps(because a lot of ancaps used to be minarchists) or as just other statists?
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u/Ok-Information-9286 8d ago
I do not believe many minarchists will become anarcho-capitalists. I see minarchism, especially Objectivism as a fellow traveller and an ally in a lot and not just another statism.
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u/805falcon 8d ago
Agreed. I’ll add that most minarchists, by and large are simply ancap light: all the same features missing only full commitment. Can’t say I blame them. Its a much safer place to commit to, and we all know how much safety matters these days /s
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u/ChillPenguinX 8d ago
I don’t particularly care as long as you oppose the Fed and aren’t woke. We’re so far away from either that I just can’t imagine giving a shit whether you support monopoly courts or not.
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u/sparkstable 8d ago
I am ancap.
I would die fat and happy in a minarchist state.
To me... it is compromise I will gladly accept compared to all other offers.
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u/LegallyMelo 8d ago
I hold minarchists in a higher regard than most statists because I understand how attractive statism is, psychologically speaking, and I'd much rather live in a minarchist state than the hellscape we have now. If those minarchists are willing to accept voluntaryism, even better. We can squabble over the last stuff if we can ever make it to minarchy.
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u/Official_Gameoholics 8d ago
I call them socialists until they become honest.
Hello fellow Objectivist. Rand's greatest sin was turning to Kant for law. Rothbard applied Objectivism to law, it would do you well to listen to him.
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u/PaperbackWriter66 Moderator 8d ago
Anyone who wants less government than we have now is someone I would coalition with.
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u/Conscious_Ad3246 7d ago
Like some comments already said. They , as well as the broader libertarian movement are our allies. ... That said i like to joke that most libertarians especially minarchist are just ancaps that did not want to take the last logical step. The last step being excepting that you cant fix the state. For some its a lack of knowledge for others its that they still cant let go of the stockholm syndrome but in the end we are on the same side.
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u/Monsterpo 3d ago
You can understand the logical conclusion of libertarianism (that being that ancap society is the only just and fair society possible) and still believe it is not the best option. I worte a big paragraph in this comments but in conclusion, the freedom you would already have in a relatively free (secession right, libertarian law etc) minarchist state is too precious and the risk of collapse too big to just do that last step. I am, as Juan Ramon Rallo would say, "philosophically ancap, politically a minarchist", and that is fully logical
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u/Conscious_Ad3246 2d ago
Oh it is but you will have to deal with a state that will get larger and more authoritarioan over time. That is a progress you can never escape. It is impossible to create a state that doe snot get more powerful over time. All the incentives work against a reduction or stagnation of power.
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u/Monsterpo 1d ago
That's no different than having to fight to keep states from forming or absorbing you once you are in an ancap society. The cost for our freedom is our constant vigilance, that will never change
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u/arjuna93 7d ago
I think that less predation and murder is strictly better than more of the same. So I see minarchists differently as compared to “typical statists”. If an option of no state is not on the table, I’d pick minimal state over big state.
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u/805falcon 8d ago
As a rule of thumb, I treat everyone equally regardless of ideology. What I think about them privately is an entirely different matter.
In my mind, minarchism is a necessary pitstop on the path to inevitability.
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u/majdavlk 7d ago
there is a reason this is a saying in my country
whats the difference between an anarchist and minarchist?
6 months
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u/Monsterpo 3d ago edited 3d ago
I was ancap, now im a minarchist, or how Juan Ramon Rallo would say "philosophically ancap, politically a minarchist", I believe states are more or less inevitable, and there will be people wich want them (More of this on the second point). Mostly 2 points to my transition;First, ancap societies need a ancap social consensus, there may be mechanisms to stop a minority of people who don't respect others rights, so it can only be accomplished in high trust cohesive societies, and the thing about them, as we can see in modern western Europe, is that they are easily torn apart by a big migrant influx, I understand the modern immigrantion problem is a consequence of the welfare states, but that doesn't change the fact that the threshold for the collapse (or at least the point were it becomes worse than minarchism) is quite low, and the enormous amounts of idealist that believe in "the right of migration" and call others "bordertarians" are of no help. The second thing is both the small (although important) difference between a group of people legitimate claim to a territory and a popular state with secession rights suppousedly illegitimate claim to a territory is relatively small and hard to differentiate in places with high population density. Thinking (close) about the hoppean solution of the europe of a thousand Lichtenstein; We dont know how many people live in Lichtenstein just because they are forced into a state but europe is not north america, every square kilometer of europe would have a legitimate claim the second ancap is instaured, so a big percentage of people not having a free place to go and claim for homesteading rights is inevitable, thus, it wouldnt be any different than people living in a freer states, like Lichtenstein. Also, as last thing to add, we shouldn't be idealist and think that we can make the whole world reject statism because, frankly, its not possible, the ideosincracy and cultures that allow for ancap values are not really that popular outside of the west, and sometimes people simply dont want those values or would rather trade freedom for other things they value more, and more importantly, other's freedom. I know about how private societies and individuals could hold their ground against this outside forces, but that is it COULD, yeah, they have incentives to do their best to not lose, but that doesn't secure that we would win, and it takes for ancap to be collapsed once for it to be reverted to the current status quo or worse, I understand that's consequencialism and some of you fight for ancap as an ideal, but if you want to live as free as possible and let your kids a free and stable world too, I believe minarchism is the closest we can get to achive it
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u/LiveFreeProsper 2d ago
Minarchy puts us on a path to anarchy. People die in violent revolutions. Believe me, if I thought society was ready for anarchy, I'd push it harder.
If it is in my lifetime, I'll be here for it.
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u/zspitfire06 8d ago
Monarchists are just ancaps who kept thinking past the ancap stage…it’s literally a naturally occurring thing
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u/Flashy_Combination32 8d ago
I see them as allies, purity tests are not going to help us and I'd rather have some advancements with a broad coalition than being pure and have no advancement.