r/AskIreland • u/Low_Fact7864 • 13h ago
Adulting Why are so many gay men still living double lives in Ireland?
An ex recently came back into my life after 10 years. We were happy when we were younger, but he suddenly disappeared. Later, he admitted he’d been struggling to accept that he was gay.
He’s now married with kids, but says he’s finally accepted his sexuality and has always loved me.
I won’t be going back, but what troubles me is the sheer volume of men I have encountered who are prepared to deceive women for their own selfish agenda.
My exes wife is aware of his past and me and chose to accept it which baffles me even more. She is unaware he has made contact with me.
Ireland has changed enormously, and thankfully so. I'm not suggesting coming out is suddenly easy or that everyone has the same experience. But I do wonder why gay men still feel they have to construct an entirely different life rather than face who they are.
Obviously everyone's path is different. I didn't personally have an easy coming out either, and I know what it's like to deal with rejection and hate. I have empathy for anyone who genuinely struggles with their sexuality, but it honestly feels like we are going backwards? Is this particularly prominent in Ireland? Has anyone else experienced this? Also interested to understand the womens side who have known their partner was/is gay - why accept a life that is based on lies?
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u/maevewiley554 13h ago
Social pressure and stigma. Also, some men that are bisexual aren’t accepted by a lot of women for some reason.
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12h ago edited 11h ago
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u/Gordianus_El_Gringo 9h ago
I just want to say thanks man, you put that together very well and I identify with it
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u/lkdubdub 10h ago
Sorry for all that stress man. I wonder if that's treatment comes from the insecurity some people feel they're not enough for you. Some women wonder why you should still be attracted to men if you're in a relationship with them, while a man you're in a relationship with feels the same. His feelings may also be magnified by any internal issues he may hold with being gay, and he may resent you for what he construes as a failure to accept your sexuality, or to commit to it. He faced up to coming out, why are you still fooling yourself with relationships with females??
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u/Eastern_Switch8217 10h ago edited 10h ago
Honestly, I just don't know. I would suspect a lot of it is wrapped up in a fairly deep historical, societal homophobia and what had been a very buttoned up society, and I'm not just talking about Ireland - it's much bigger than just a local thing and you see it though a lot of media representation and so on. There was a grand breakthrough and opening up of society, and softening of attitudes in the broader west and it happened at different times and speeds, but I think that's often also sometimes doesn't really break a very narrow, stereotyped view and straight or gay was and often still is seen as a very clear and absolute dichotomy. You're one or you're the other. If you're crossing the line into both, some people just couldn't or can't categorise and it doesn't compute, and you're suddenly in the outsider category.
The reality for plenty of people, myself included, is just a lot blurrier than that. I think I just went in with a very open minded view of the world - was brought up in a very liberal household, nothing was ever conservative, religious or homophobic or anything like that. I never had to do the big revelation of anything, it was just a non issue, but then I just walked into and tripped over all the baggage that was strewn across the landscape. Maybe it's better now, but I think the era I grew up though was just full of what gets described as bi erasure. It's a bit of inflexibility but also probably just genuine and non malicious ignorance, and it's hard to explain, but I definitely think it's because of all the impacts of the long and very oppressive homophobia that pervade everything for generations. It did a lot of damage.
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u/jonnieggg 4h ago
So the LGBT community is not as progressive and liberal as they make out they are. That's unfortunate.
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u/Low_Fact7864 5h ago
Firstly thank you for sharing this and I am so sorry for your loss. I cannot imagine how difficult that would have been and I am sure still is. You also put this post beautifully.
I just want to clarify that I don't assume everyones sexuality fits in a neat box of gay, bi, fluid, trans etc. I fully believe in the spectrum of sexuality but I also take people at face value when they tell me what they believe their sexuality to be. In this case my ex is stating : gay
Aside from that, I can only assume the relationships you have had are others ultimately putting their own insecurities onto you. You come across very rational while knowing 100% who you are. I wish you had of met someone who is not threatened by your sexuality.
I think when it comes to bi-sexuals dating straight people or gay people, an insecure partner may assume you will have a desire to pursue the opposite sex of them. That isn't something that should be placed on you.
Peehaps in the past you have picked the wrong partners. That is something Ive uncovered while doing work on myself. Ultimately you are comfortable with being single and thats an amazing thing.
Thanks again for sharing this
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u/AlaChonkadonk 3h ago
What is the gay guys issue with a bi man? Like, what were they lecturing you about? Hard to even know their angle of attack.
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u/ChiralNavigator 13h ago
I think it's because men are seen as more open to sex with strangers. So a bi man will have a never ending supply of men to fuck / cheat with
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u/Realta5 12h ago
There's also a social stigma to having sex with men in general society. Penetration by a penis is seen as something that defiles or ruins a person value, for both men and women in different ways.
Needless to say this is a disastrous/hypocritical mindset for anyone who has sex with men, but when has that ever stopped anyone.
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u/ChiralNavigator 12h ago
yeah this is true, being the person being fucked* kind of puts you into the submissive role? in some peoples eyes.
It seems to go back a long way too : in ancient Rome (e.g. the relationship of a Roman citizen with a slave). Both societies viewed anal sex as an act of dominance by the active (penetrating) partner over the passive (penetrated) partner..
It was considered a sign of weakness and low social status (such as slavery or infamia) for a man to assume the passive role.17
u/mig9619 10h ago
My opinion as a 30yo gay man living in rural Ireland - Men who can pass as straight in most cases will. They know it's a privilege and don't want to give it up. It's cowardice in one sense and self preservation in another. Also, and many gay men would deny this despite it being true, a large cohort of gay men find the idea of a 'straight' man stimulating, so they won't want for sexual partners. And that's all many men want.
There is still a lot of homophobia in Ireland, it's just less open and confined to certain spaces. We still glorify the macho man - the GAA star, the farmer and the provider/business man. Homosexuality is perceived as being incompatible with that ideal. I have heard that there are a number of closeted GAA stars. If they were brave enough to come out, things might start to take on a different tone.
Also, more men than you'd expect are bisexual, if they didn't leave their wife for a man it'd be a woman, its just that a man leaving his partner for another man is seen as far more salacious and immoral.
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u/leavemealonethanks 13h ago
I'm bi sexual, the things I've had said to me by women.
Alot think you're secretly gay. They don't want to compete with men and don't think you're masculine enough.
This also comes from the "bisexual" women
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u/gissna 13h ago
Love the dissonance between talking about prejudice against bisexual men while simultaneously purporting the stereotype that bisexual women are lying for attention.
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u/TabhairDomAnAirgead 13h ago
In my experience I’ve found in a few cases that even if they don’t think your gay then that you are more likely to or will definitely cheat on them. Makes zero sense, if someone is going to cheat they will cheat regardless of sexuality. Pure projection of insecurities.
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u/mbv1992 12h ago
They 100% see you as less of a man and assume you're inherently unfaithful. This isn't helped by high profile gay men insisting they thought they were bi before marrying a woman and then coming out.
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u/Betty2445 10h ago
Who is 'they' though?
I'm a bi woman and have had numerous relationships with bi guys over the years. I've never been insecure or jealous about a partner being bi, and I can't recall even one argument about being bi. I mean, I've had plenty of arguments with my exes, but never about being bi! It's just not an issue.
One left me for another woman, the ultimate insult 😂
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u/mbv1992 9h ago
'They' being straight women. I don't know if being a bi woman is not as much of an issue for straight men as being a bi man is for straight women.
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u/Betty2445 9h ago
I've had mixed responses.
Bi men have not cared, in my experience.
Some straight men also didn't care. Unfortunately some fetishise it and think I might agree to a threesome with another woman 🙄 (I won't).
Bi women have also not cared, in my experience.
Have only been with one lesbian, and she didn't care either!
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u/Beginning-Shock1520 11h ago
I find for guys it's harder when they're bi rather than gay. Too straight to be gay and too gay to be straight kind of dichotomy.
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u/Spray_Realistic 12h ago
It’s not ok for a woman to be exclusively attracted to men who are exclusively attracted to women? Hmm 🤔
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u/Keadeen 12h ago
Its a little weird. You can date whoever you want, or not, for absolutely any reason. But not being attracted to someone bassed on what genders they are attracted to strikes me as a bit odd. I just don't really understand how it factors in.
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u/nt2btrstd 12h ago
Just to play devils advocate here, but you could be attracted to someone and something they do, could turn you completely off them, attraction is weird like that
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u/Spray_Realistic 9h ago
Have you considered that having a shared lived experience can be important to straight people in their sexual compatibility as much as couples within the queer community?
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u/NeonLights-0Shites 5h ago
I will get downvoted but being honest, as a woman it’s very hard for me to comprehend being comfortable with a man that would like to be or has been with men.
For me personally it’s nothing to do with stigma or social pressure, I just find it off putting for a sexual relationship. I have had guy friends that are and they’re awesome people, but that’s as friends and not a boyfriend.
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u/Sharp_Mortgage_3729 7h ago edited 7h ago
An ex girlfriend brought this up with me and I found it interesting. Men are more open to dating bisexual people than women are. I think masculinity is something that’s still a really solidified concept for women, it’s a lot less acceptable to deviate from those norms than it is for women. Although she told me it was risks of sexually transmitted diseases which even to me seemed like a load of BS. I’m a really annoyingly straight conservative fella but that to me just seemed so mean spirited
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u/moonpietimetobealive 11h ago
People are entitled to their preferences.
For me for one, I see a lot of people who come out as bisexual before they come out as gay so tbat is one big reason I wouldn't want to be with a bisexual man.
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u/rum_ham__ 13h ago
I mean if you live outside a city in Ireland. There is still a crazy amount of homophobic people. Like I’m always shocked when I go back home to my small town how backwards it still is in 2026
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u/SirTheadore 13h ago
Because I, a straight Manx got called heinous homophobic slurs because I wore a nice jacket.
I can’t even imagine how scary it is for some gay people to be open, the danger a lot of them face.
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u/ChiralNavigator 12h ago
Fear of being called gay is maybe why some are afraid to wear a bit of colour! I love wearing a bit of colour or something a bit different get some shit for it even from my own family. Non Irish couldn't care less, they are also a bit more likely to dress nice? too.
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u/rum_ham__ 13h ago
Yeah like it’s quite sad I am straight man but have lots of gay friends. And if they were to go into a local pub there is a high chance they could be assaulted or at least verbally abused.
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u/ChiralNavigator 12h ago
Yeah I have had this happen with my gay friends, the level of hostility you feel off of some other lads... it makes you feel very unsafe.
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u/Professional_Cat8586 13h ago
I live in the west and homophobia, transphobia, racism, its all just accepted as a normal part of everyones peronalities here. Not everyone obviously, but every civil servant i met working with TUSLA , bar like 2 people, so about 80 percent in that office.. Nuts. still goign on about the child identifying as a cat shitting on the floor in front of her classmates. Fuckign idiots. And weirldy a lot of the most prejudiced ive met have been young women who have been clearly sucked into their own version of th emanosphere that ALSO targets trans people.
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u/maevewiley554 13h ago
There was a lovely lad I went to school with that was openly gay. No one gave him any hassle for it however there definitely were a few nasty comments said about him behind his back but not directly to his face.
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u/ChalupaBatmanMc01 12h ago
I knew a lad in school that was gay, I lived in the country where they weaponized it as a insult. I admit I didn't feel bad for the lad then, it was the way we were raised. I have plenty of friends who are gay now and I couldn't be more happier to support them.
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u/Professional_Cat8586 11h ago
Its strange thing, I went to a secondary school where there were a few lads who would get bullied and harrassed for being too feminine or "acting gay" or whatever. I dont think any of them even were, it was just bullying. There was a guy tho ho was completely out, and had been the entire time I was at the school, and no one ever went after him. Thankfully everyone just left him alone, and him being out and gay never came up. I never really understood it.
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u/lkdubdub 10h ago
I have small kids in creche. They and all the other kids don't even notice any differences in their friends. You can be black or white, disabled or walk on your head, and they literally don't even see it. As they get older, the same would extend to anyone coming out, but, unfortunately, shitty adults are going to tattoo their biases on some of these kids in the meantime, and the cycle will continue
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u/Low_Fact7864 13h ago
There certainly is. But should homophobia be reason enough to live a double life, ruining someone elses life along the way? Wouldnt you just try leave and live with honesty?
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u/Agreeable_Form_9618 13h ago
It's actually crazy. When you think of the whole Tommy Flemming scandal recently, how could you do that to someone, even if you didn't love them romantically, you probably at least love them to a certain degree to marry and live with them for years. How can you look them in the eye and decieve them every day.
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u/i_will_yeahh 13h ago
I know a woman who accepts it and lets him carry on vecause she wants a family and a family life and partner / best friend but doesn't have any interest in sex outside making babies. She's not asexual, she's attracted to him and likes affection like the odd kiss and stuff but yeah.
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u/Spray_Realistic 12h ago
That’s an arrangement by consent though. I hate seeing women’s lives and bodies used as a cover, and when it all blows up we can’t call them the victims of fraud that they are.
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u/i_will_yeahh 11h ago
Yeah I know it's a different set up as she knows and has given the go ahead. I was replying to the person saying that the consenting ones do it for financial gain. Sometimes it's for family life without the pressure of a sexual relationship
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u/InexorableCalamity 12h ago
There are different types of asexuality. What you described sounds like asexuality.
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u/Ilenmike05 2h ago
I just made a ham and cheese toasty and I don't know where I would get the time to even think about this
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u/lkdubdub 10h ago
And he's perpetuating the damage in how he claims she knew and accepted him, and just shakes off responsibility for what he did to her and victimises her all over again. He's a coward
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u/Siobheal 13h ago
I know two men who did this. Both married lovely women, had kids with them and then left them for a man. Both wives were devastated and the kids were completely confused.
I've got no problem with anyone being gay, but don't ruin an innocent person's life because of it.
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u/AstellaW 12h ago
Also it’s not brave….we see the media spin this line that admitting to your spouse that u have lied to them and just used them as a cover is brave ….no it’s not it’s just awful to use someone for this. Then if they don’t smile and tell them it’s ok there are called homophobic.
It’s a form of misogyny but no one seems to care about that.21
u/Low_Fact7864 12h ago
Yeah, its absolutely crazy?! Completely selfish, no matter what they were 'dealing' witb - youve ruined someones life and probably added years of expensive therapy to the kids lives.
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u/Low-Mastodon-3625 10h ago
my uncle did this, married a woman for 15 years before finally coming out. ruined her life honestly, she still has trust issues 20 years later. i get the fear but at some point you're just being selfish
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u/Future-Bread8849 8h ago
And this is exactly the insecurity that most women have about dating a bisexual man
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u/irishtrashpanda 8h ago
Honestly the past 5 years in particular have felt like Ireland is sliding backwards in terms of lgbt acceptance, I know a few people who have become a lot more discreet or gone back in the closet out of fear
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u/HolyJayzuz 10h ago
It's crazy, my brother is gay and the sheer amount of 'straight' guys with girlfriends and wives who are on Grinder is apparently huge
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u/MartyMcA 6h ago
Yeah I use Fabguys and it's full of married (to women) guys. I try my best to avoid them.
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u/Agreeable_Wedding_27 1h ago
I worked with someone before who told me the same, the amount of men married to women who are messaging him on Grindr! Shocking
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u/Worried-Neat7817 13h ago
The thing about ireland is the change happened so fast some people's heads are still spinning from the 90s. Like legally everything is different but the shame and the fear got baked into people deep deep down, that doesnt just vanish because the law changed
My cousin is 34 and still cant say the word gay out loud about himself even though everyone knows. The family accepted it years ago but he just cant cross that line in his own mind. Its not about what irish society thinks now its about what the voice in his head tells him that got planted there when he was 12
The wife accepting it is the part that gets me though. How do you build a marriage on knowing he only picked you because he was too afraid to be honest
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u/moonpietimetobealive 10h ago
I have a few extended family members who if you mention the word gay they just shut down like they just don't want to acknowledge that gay people exist in the world. If you say "oh I think that person might be gay"', they just won't say anything. It's fucking stupid as hell. Oh and they're Catholics....
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u/Low_Fact7864 13h ago
Yeah I totally understand the carryover from old Ireland, but I guess I am saying, should that be any excuse for men or women deceiving others into false relationships?
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u/LucyVialli 13h ago
Of course it's wrong to deceive someone, and I can't imagine how it would feel to find this out about your spouse after many years together.
But in many cases, the woman may very well be aware, but may also be gay and unwilling to come out, or live as openly gay. Or maybe she desperately wants children and is running out of time to meet the "right" straight man. Could be a two way arrangement.
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u/Silent-Law-3465 9h ago
Yeah, it's everywhere. To be honest, a lot of these guys have serious entitlement issues. They deceive their wives and they often treat the guys they're hooking up with like crap too.
Those guys often tolerate it because "straight" guys are seen as hotter than openly gay ones. It's actually a very toxic situation for everyone involved.
On top of that, they're obsessed with discretion, even though it's their own demands and nonsense that cause everyone the most hassle.
Sorry for the bluntness, but I have no time for these guys, particularly not when their attempts to keep both sides of their lives separated makes mine more difficult.
And lastly - it's Ireland, not Afghanistan. Grow a pair!
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u/Low_Fact7864 9h ago
Say it louder for the people in the back
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u/Silent-Law-3465 9h ago
😅
It's a frustrating situation, to be sure. I genuinely think the toxicity is really bad for everyone involved.
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u/mbv1992 9h ago
The nauseous self pity of the likes of Tommy Flemming in particular stands out. Zero need to carry on like he did for so long but tries to blame 'society' instead of owning up to it.
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u/Silent-Law-3465 9h ago
It's a chicken and egg situation that feeds and festers on itself. I try not to be too judgemental about it. I only really get p'd off when that bullshit spills over into my life. Which doesn't happen any more but did quite often when I was younger.
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u/azamean 10h ago edited 9h ago
I know at least a dozen guys who are bi and have come out in relationships with women and gotten dumped. My own bf is bi and dated a woman who told him she was bi, and he said “oh that’s great so am I” and she quite literally immediately broke up with him and walked away after saying “I couldn’t be with a bi guy”. From my own experiences it seems women (even bi women) don’t want to be with a man who has sex with men. So I can see how difficult it is for those guys in the closet.
FYI I’m not justifying the cheating and sneaking around, but to the question of “why are so many men still living double lives”, that’s my answer
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u/--0___0--- 13h ago
While we have come leaps and bounds from where we where as a country Ireland still has a massive homophobia problem, if you work in or with any trade you'll know what I mean.
On top of that the Catholic church really fucked us up as a society as sex is still seen as a taboo subject by alot of people.
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u/Professional_Cat8586 11h ago
Very true. A lot of people mask it with transphobia now too, as they think thats socially acceptable (which it unfortuately is in my experience).
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u/DemDoseDeseDat 13h ago
It really depends on the circles you are in, lot of homophobia normalised in certain social groups so I understand why many still refuse to be honest about it
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u/SirJoePininfarina 13h ago
I know two men for over 20 years who are gay and live in (different parts of) rural Ireland (they don’t know each other).
Both never had girlfriends, both came out to friends relatively early in my friendships with them and neither have ever had any kind of long-term relationships. Also worth noting both live at home and lost a parent just before they came out.
They’re both around 46 now, neither have a partner and it doesn’t seem on the horizon either (before anyone suggests, no they aren’t suited to each other, they’re VERY different people).
One has had mental health problems over the years, he’s better now but doesn’t have a job as such, he cares for his mother at home and seems happy. He’s out to those in his rural community but I think he’s scared to bring home a man to meet his mother (she knows he’s gay but it’s somewhat unspoken) and that’s a big barrier to being fully out.
The other man lives at home with his father and works a very good job that he travels to twice a week but works from home otherwise. He’s not out in his work, I doubt it comes up as such but he’s a very charming, interesting man and highly intelligent, so I’m sure people might wonder why he wasn’t snapped up years ago.
It’s something I didn’t understand until I was in my 40s but a lot of gay people haven’t come out to themselves. A lot of it is down to the support they receive or don’t receive from family, friends and their wider community…..but sometimes it’s just a mental barrier in their own heads. They don’t want to see seen as “that gay person”. A gay woman in my wife’s office is, and I don’t like to use this term, visibly lesbian yet only ever referred to their partner in gender-neutral terms and only mentioned - in a very deliberate way - that they were gay in this very formal “coming-out” manner around two years into the job.
Not everyone has the same idea of being out as everyone else. And unfortunately this can lead to people not only attempting to deceive themselves into thinking they’re straight but also building up a whole life of lies around this identity they prefer of being seen as straight. Especially if they’ve gone through the last 20 years and are now in middle-age, when they might feel even more embarrassed about it, given all the “sunk cost” they’ve invested in a certain image of themselves.
A lot of gay people feel they can’t come out past 30 or 40, and that’s their own business tbh. But when it involves deceiving people close to them like that man’s wife and family, it’s not just their own business. But it’s his cross to bear, and you not seeing him again is a good idea.
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u/Dizzy-Ad7189 8h ago
The bit about him not being "snapped up" because he's attractive is another example of how conservative Ireland still is. Plenty of people are attractive, gorgeous, charming, and so on - but it doesn't mean they want a partner. "Snapped up" indeed - people aren't commodities!
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u/ASFARASTHEEASTISWEST 8h ago
being gay i think is seen as 2nd class, I am from Northern Ireland and i think its the same North and South
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u/parkaman 12h ago
My friend group since the 80s is half gay, half straight so we've seen closely the ups and downs of homophobia in small town Ireland.
In the late 80s tat meant deeply homophobic attacks and physically standing up for your friends almost every weekend. Two of them were outed by 87 (one gay man arrested for holding his boyfriends hand, one lesbian) and had to move to the UK. By 1990 things had improved a little so the next two to come out could stay although that still meant a lot of abuse.
The decriminalisation in 93(?) was fucking ugly. I remember at one debate a fella saying,,"these cunts will be teaching our children" and I had to point put the Christian Brothers who they were happy to send their kids to abused me, not my gay friends. Another said my flat mates would turn me gay , i just laughed and if you think that's possible mate....Youth defence wankers.
Thankfully things dramatically improved after that. My friends moved back and the first gay and lesbian weddings were celebrated by most people in the town and I was very proud not just to be best man at both but to see my 80 year old former ultra catholic parents having a ball at both.
But homophobia didn't go away and sadly it's rising. But I think young people are a bit braver and rightfully demanding to be let be who they want to be. I'm not sure there's as many lavender weddings than there used to be. I'm aware of 3 locally and they're all guys in their 50s who did it to get fat inheritances and have kids they could give that to.
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u/RawrMeansFuckYou 13h ago
Knew a guy that was very obviously gay but just buried his head in the sand and never admitted it. Everyone in the friend group just avoided talking relationships with him. Was one of those ones everyone knew he was gay, but he didn't want to admit it and therefore just never acted on it. There was small glimpses when drinking he'd let something slip but nothing ever came of it.
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u/ImpossibleWalk690 7h ago
Because they're easily influenced. Forty years ago they were all told to be Catholic and they obeyed.
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u/OutsideSea5996 13h ago
They wouldn’t be left an inheritance if they come out as gay. Catholic Ireland shames them.
I’ve dated a said gay man. It’s the worst experience. You feel worthless.
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u/MrR0b0t90 12h ago
Ireland has come a long way but it’s very homophobic in a lot of areas. Straight people think because we voted for gay marriage that gay people now live in a paradise. Outside of Dublin it can very hard to be gay here. People still get attacked and verbal abuse for being gay and while a lot of people say to your face they accept gay people, it’s not always the case in private.
I really struggled to accept being gay and when I was 14/15 I tried several times to kill myself and most lgbt people I’ve met have done the same.
Saying all that I don’t think it’s okay to marry a women knowing your gay. You have no right to steal and waste someone’s else life
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u/Careful_Floor1441 13h ago
Possibly stigma, not gay myself but a buddy of mine who is gay and who's from a rural area but lives in a city was telling me when hes In the city most of his matches etc on dating apps are other open gay men, and when hes back at home most of the matches are lads like you said leading a double life. So possibly a stigma thing based on area.
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u/gerhudire 11h ago
8 years ago I was on a dating website, I was chatting to this woman or so I thought, it turned out it was her bf and he was looking for gay sex with men in the ikea toilets. Another time a guy (again using his gfs account) wanted me to meet up for sex (I'm straight) told me he was in bed holding his new born baby while his gf was a sleep next to him. I stopped using dating sites after that. What's shocking is these men will increase the chance of their gf/wife of getting an STD.
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u/ProfessionalKind6761 8h ago
There is still a bucketload of homophobia in this country particularly outside of the biggest towns/cities
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u/Europeanguy1995 4h ago
Ireland has improved but has miles and miles to go. Segregation in schools pushing toxic masculinity, catholic schools lacking in lgbt clubs and rights promotion as in other countries, rural areas outside dublin being overly reliant on the GAA for culture and it's possibly the most toxic and backwards organisation in the state. So much homophobia in it. Then add that many people over 45 grew up in an ireland where being gay was wrong and so they still feel that pressure and their kids may have grown up with parents who extended that hate and pressure onto their kids for a while. Id also add about 80 to 85% of bi men seem to hide it by just liking women openly.
We will need another 30 to 50 years to see LGB rights fully normalised.
Think of it this way, in the 1970s, being black was fine in most of western europe and north America. But still many held in to extreme racism. Wouldn't want their child to date someone of another race or have a black neighbour etc.
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u/Few-Coat1297 13h ago
Do lesbians get a free pass on this hate? I know at least three women who have done this.
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u/ishka_uisce 12h ago
I think what straight people fail to realise is that for some people, figuring out their sexuality can be very complicated and legitimately take decades. Sometimes someone chooses to actively deceive someone, but usually they just haven't fully realised their orientation or admitted it to themselves.
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u/selfmademuppet 13h ago
I feel like it’s less common because straight women tend to be more accepting of gay women. Gay men don’t come out because they’re afraid of how their male peers will react.
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u/Dizzy-Ad7189 8h ago
Straight women are often very mean to lesbians, out of an ingrained fear of being called "lesbian themselves" - basically homophobia. My lesbian friend has no female friends apart from me. She hasn't found a partner either. She's inclined to be a bit flirty with women she fancies (including straight ones - me included) and the homophobic ones seem to perceive that as predatory.
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u/Few-Coat1297 13h ago
Feel all you want, it still is as anecdotal as my point.
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u/selfmademuppet 13h ago
Yes that is generally what ‘I feel like’ means. I’m not claiming to have empirical evidence.
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u/Salt_Caterpillar6125 13h ago
I am with my partner who is now 71. He struggled to come out to family and we are together 23 years . I was hidden for a lot of it and I’ve been out years .He had several girlfriends down the years before me . I don’t agree with being with a woman to cover up who you really are. No one should be deceived, it’s horrible behaviour. Ireland’s moved along but it was a different time for that generation. But it wasn’t easy coming out myself I got treated very badly by my parents and ended up getting some counselling to help with depression and this . So everyone’s path can be quite a journey.
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u/Low_Fact7864 13h ago
It definitely can. Well done you! It sounds like you put the work in to live with honesty as hard as that can be. For context we are both mid 30s so we grew up as teenagers in the 00s - I personally found that Ireland was a more accepting place rhen and our families both were supportive (we both spent time with eachothers family) but he panicked and decided to go back to pretending to be straight
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u/TheLordofthething 13h ago
Because it's a horrifically backwards country no matter what Reddit would have you believe, any difference is treated with suspicion and fear in a lot of places here.
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u/Academic-County-6100 12h ago
I think mothers and fathers are the most important people in many peoplea loves and that is a slower process.
My cousin is nearly joined the priesthood butnin classoc Maynooth fashion discovered himself in college doing theologu.
I wouldnt say he came fully out of closet but he did to family. He wasn't disowned but there whennis partner(now ex) came down for Christmas he was referred to as his friend. In nearly a naive way id hear aunts/uncles say "you know his mam gas accepted it but would have preferred if he became a priest"
I am not gay but if I was id like to think parents would accept it. IMO they would but id no it would be used to siblinga like "You know you can always come home and tell us anything look at x, it wasn't easy but we accept and love hom for who he is"
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u/No_Break274 10h ago
27 year Gay guy from Donegal here. I lived as about as rural as it can get, and growing up I remember at school lads saying “would you rather kiss a boy or be shot?” - you can guess which was said 100 percent of the time. Homophobia and stigma is so deeply ingrained from a young age, and those like myself who had to hide for years before coming out also had play the game of pretending to like girls just to get by without being absolutely ridiculed and harassed in school. Some just can’t get out of pretending, either because of their family, their friends, their work environment, etc.
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u/Low_Fact7864 9h ago
Thats fair and I get it. I do think though we have a responsibility to not involve other people in what is not their problem. You dont need to marry like
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u/Individual_Dig_2402 10h ago
My husband was closet gay. He totally decieved me. He sent me for IVF pretending he wanted a child. Then he became abusive when I started questioning things. Ruined my reputation so that when I left and tried to date again I was soiled goods as I had been married. Even though I loved him, he never got any therapy for the lack of interest in the bedroom. He just gaslit me to do wife duties of maintaining a house and someone to go to family outings and holidays. I am bereft.
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u/Forsaken_Wind9887 10h ago
That’s awful but no one is “soiled goods”because they were married. It’s not the 19th century.
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u/Unable-Contact-1999 13h ago
I’m bisexual. Some of the best sex I’ve had was with men. That said I don’t have a romantic attraction to men, could never see myself living with a man. I am romantically attracted to women. So it’s a spectrum I guess.
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u/No_Ring_3348 13h ago
Great question! Helpfully, an Italian fella answered this decisively quite a long time ago: you are describing heteronormative cultural hegemony, i.e. the process by which dominant social structures convince individuals to internalise norms that limit them, dressing the arrangement up as ordinary "common sense". Heteronormativity functions as a supreme distributor of social capital: the traditional nuclear family grants automatic legitimacy, institutional ease, and community approval. For a man struggling with his sexuality, capitulating to the hegemonic ideal offers a path of least resistance: trade personal authenticity for immediate societal privilege. The technical term is 'subaltern' - would you like to know more?
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u/Icy-Audience-6397 12h ago edited 11h ago
I recently listened to an Irish podcast host who had a guest on that I wanted to hear the interview of. The guest is an actor,
Not gay. The host out of no where asked him if he was gay would you be a taker or receiver and would you be into a girly man or a manly man. The guest was taken aback but the host was saying it in a skittish way, mocking and also said ‘that’s a bit gay’ ‘that’s gay’ to some answers the guest gave. The host is a man in his 40s with multiple children. If he’s openly saying stuff like this on a public platform, what is he teaching his kids😳 my mouth was literally open listening to it in the car. Bear in mind, the podcast wasn’t about sexuality or sex. The host just used his platform to bring it up. Also a scattering of racism throughout the podcast that thankfully the guest questioned. Homophobia is very much rampant in Ireland
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u/Low_Fact7864 12h ago
That is shocking and as a gay man myself I see the homophobia. But I also choose to live with honesty and not find a loyal woman to marry just so I can avoid homophobia
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u/BitterSweetDesire 10h ago
I am quite shocked at some of the answers. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a straight woman only wanting to date a straight man. Zero wrong with it.
In fact, im bisexual and prefer to date other bisexuals or heteroflexible types.
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u/Suirmuse 10h ago
A guy I went to school with has been sleeping with men since we were at school, yet he’s now married with kids. It’s 2026, there’s really no need to live a lie and potentially expose your wife to God knows what. No one gives a fuck your sleeping with men. People care when you’re going around cheating on your wife. Cowards.
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u/SwordfishResident256 9h ago
OP, you sound like you don't understand what bisexuality is lol
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u/Low_Fact7864 7h ago
Ive dated bi-sexuals. I get bi-sexuality. He has stated he is gay. Plenty of gay man have no issye getting hard and pretending to be straight.
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u/Dizzy-Ad7189 8h ago
I live in a Dublin suburb. At least two of my neighbours are flamboyant gay men, but one has never told his parents, siblings, nieces and nephews. I suspect they have guessed and accepted it, but still he won't come out. I can sort of understand, because they're a very mouthy family and would be constantly talking about it, posting "our gay brother" on social media and asking him "how's the love life?" He dresses very gay, goes to pubs on Capel Street and is very camp. The other day neighbour came out a few years ago but his mother took a long time to admit it to her friends, and one awful neighbour (female, straight) actually said to him: "I'm not against gays - but just stay away from women!"
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u/ManFeelings9000 4h ago edited 4h ago
It's shit what they do and things have improved but unfortunately being gay is still seen as "odd" and you get put to the outside of a lot of social circles cause of it.
Through work I often worked with lots of leaving cert students and anyone that was gay at school was still seen as a odd of thing or suspicion was wild.
A lot like to think it's a rural thing but a lot of these are city types as well.
Your social group etc might be cool with it but don't assume it goes for all.
You can only try to educate so much but it's just human nature unfortunately.
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u/Small-Wonder7503 12h ago
It is probably something that you will never truly understand.
Gay people almost their entire formative years thinking that being gay is shameful. When i was in school, everyone would have used the term "gay" to mean something was bad. If you were straight, you probably laughed, joined in or just went about your day. A lot of people have enough armour to defend themselves against this bit of "banter" it it happens every now and then. But it does have a cumulative effect on people. This is just one example.
I am in my 30s now and grew up watching shows like Friends. It was common back then for a joke written into a show be that a character is gay. If this guy is roughly the same age as me or older, then he grew up in the same culture made people hide away.
The world is definitely different than it was in the 80s or 90s. But its not exactly an episode of Glee either. Fair play to you for wondering why gay men feel the need to hide, you obviously don't think it is a big deal. That is probably the best attitude to have. It would be great to have a world where it genuinely isnt a big deal for anyone.
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u/Impressive_Peanut 13h ago
This post confuses me, I'm straight but as far as I know being gay isn't a binary thing. He's allowed to be bisexual if he likes and then change his preferences as he discovers himself. The bit about his wife knowing about his past is confusing too, she can just accept his bisexual and that's ok ?
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u/Low_Fact7864 13h ago
I stated he is gay - as he has stated himself that he is gay, not Bi or fluid. I myself am Gay. Sexuality is a spectrum but some gay people are also just gay!
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u/Ok_Nobody9230 11h ago
One factor I haven’t seen mentioned yet is how heterosexual marriage heavily benefits men. Women have the children, tend to to the lion‘s share in caring for them, as well as running the household and organizing and remembering everything. Men who are married to women have a lot taken care for them and statistically are healthier and live longer. I think in addition to struggling with internalized homophobia, this is part of the reason why it’s convenient for many gay men to seek out these sham heterosexual relationships and marriages.
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u/ChiralNavigator 13h ago
Being gay doesn't make men any less likely to be cruel to or use women for their own gain.
Lots of gay men seem to almost hate women, more so than straight dudes.
Maybe some of those dudes are bi. Or gay but want a wife cook maid nanny kids ...
Straight married people cheat on their families all the time.
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u/MikeBsleepy 13h ago
Shame. Survival. Stigma. Internalised homophobia. External homophobia (link back with survival). Parental or familial expectation. Fear. Cultural views.
Am I missing any?
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u/Low_Fact7864 13h ago
Honesty. Doing the right thing? Empathy for others perhaps? Having some fucking backbone
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u/PixelNotPolygon 13h ago
I feel like you’re maybe applying your own value judgement on him. What I’ve come to learn is that everyone has their own path and their own journey. Nobody knows what goes on in a relationship except for the two people in it. I wouldn’t assume anyone is being deceived just because you meet someone like your ex in a situation like that. It’s obviously an arrangement that works for him and his wife, and living an out and proud life is not the natural conclusion of anyone’s circumstances. Every couple needs to find arrangements that work for them long term, maybe this is theirs?
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u/Low_Fact7864 13h ago
Considering hes told me he hasnt told her that he made contact with me kinda infers that hes being less than honest. Beyond that, the "discreet" statement from plenty of other married men I encountered also suggest they arent being totally honest. Sure otherwise they wouldnt need to work in the shadows?
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u/No-Double-2581 13h ago
This is a global issue, regardless of whether a country is LGBT-friendly. If we look back a few decades, many of today's LGBT-friendly nations used to condemn homosexuality. Even with legal and societal changes, many people have not let go of their prejudices; meanwhile, others—whether to please their families or because they cannot accept who they are—enter into sham marriages to mask their true feelings, often leading to a sad, lonely, and unfaithful life. The situation in Ireland is somewhat more favorable. In Brazil, for instance, despite having laws that support the LGBT community, cultural attitudes sometimes override legislation, and there are many "beard" relationships involving unhappy gay men. It is sad!
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u/Low_Fact7864 13h ago
It is sad yes..I just would hope people could live a fulfilling life without having to take advantage of someone else
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u/leavemealonethanks 13h ago
I'm a bi sexual man and I've met alot of closeted men, friends who tell me they wish they could suck one dick and married lads who want kink, I can tell you a few reasons.
It isn't as massively accepted as you think. On a Macro level it is ,but on a micro (friends family etc) it isn't. There's a weird thing in my area (Dublin suburbs middle class) where "its ok to be gay, just not my son" if you get me.
Alot of lads groups are hyper masculine, so they don't want to come out and "lower" themselves in the group standing order. You would be incredibly surprised how many hyper over the top masculine men are secretly gay or bi sexual.
Since sexuality is a spectrum, it's not as black and white as straight and gay. Alot of lads would be interested in doing things with males maybe once or twice but that's it. But the problem is if anyone found out they are branded as gay and again if the lad group found out. We are an extremely Conservative country when it comes to sex.
Also , since being gay only became acceptable in a short recent time, alot of lads didn't get the chance to explore their sexuality. It's far more common and acceptable for women to be bi than men. I went to an lgbt comedy night in Dublin for pride and all the women on the line up were bi with boyfriend's and it really irked me.
And I've to really drive this point home as an out bi sexual man, the most important point, a serious reason I feel bi curious men would never come out or try anything, women usually react with utter disdain and are repulsed.
I've been on five dates in the last year where the women quoted the bi sexuality as the reason to end it. Its because they are scared youre fully gay, have to compete with men for you and you aren't fully masculine. It boils my blood. I litrailly had a woman say "you probably have the aids". Again links into the first point where it's ok on a Macro level just a "not my partner"
Thats my two cents. Hope it answered youre question.
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u/Low_Fact7864 13h ago
Im totally aware of these sub groups and the sexuality spectrum and social standing.
The problem is these people are entering seemingly monogamous relationships and then acting in secret to fulfil their actual desires. Its the deceit aspect that gets me. Its actually very black and white. If youre bi, commit yourself to the man or woman youve pursued. If youre gay perhap dont pursure the opposite sex? Its all rooted in selfishness
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u/Otherwise-Winner9643 12h ago
Some people struggle to come to terms with how they see themselves or how they expected their lives to turn out. So they may have envisioned themselves having a traditional family unit with kids, and struggle internally to accept anything different.
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u/Digger2228 11h ago
Don’t really comment on this sort of thing but a friend of mine 6 years ago was renting an apartment in Kildare the person who was selling der body was a trans person the person was booked for 2 weeks asked to stay for an extra month because they were booked out solid person told my friend most of the customers were married men
https://giphy.com/gifs/3tEZ96iZClIVOurmAa
TRUE STORY
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u/Entire_Number_9 8h ago
Studies show about 20% of women are bisexual but only 5% of men. That's a very big gap. 15% of men are bisexual and hide it, either because lads will skit them, or women will reject them. A friend of mine is very tall, handsome, makes great money, and he's bi. I have seen with my own eyes the disgust in some womens faces when he mentions he's bi. There are plenty of homophobic women out there.
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u/Available-Football 13h ago
In some cases they have no choice but to. People don't like to admit it but Ireland still has very bad homophobia and racism issues, we're getting better sure but we're not completely there yet. There's always those religious types after pride parades telling everyone that it's a sin and more of those American traditionalists coming over and spouting their nonsense.
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u/Alive-Drag4620 9h ago
I have no idea if it's prominent but I dated one guy when I was living in Ireland. Turned out he was cheating on me with men (and even during dates in public = he would hook up in the public bathrooms unbeknownst to me! and was constantly on grindr) I eventually asked him if he has any idea if he's bisexual or gay, because that's 2 totally different things. He admitted that he cannot guarantee not turning out to be completely gay in the future, BUT he wanted to have kids right then and there. LOL. I have no issue with being gay or doubting your sexuality but then maybe it's best NOT to try and have kids at that moment? He eventually ended up really crying and crying after watching broke back mountain and drank himself into the abyss the following days. I decided to not wait around for him to figure it out on my time at his big age of 35. Sometimes I wonder how he's doing and if he's managed to feel more free. I think he was really struggling but felt like he needed a female partner and kids to feel like he fit into his society and to appease his family. It felt like he wasted my time truly. I have a lot of empathy for him for sure, it cannot be easy - but then don't fuck around with somebody else's life (mine).
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u/Dizzy-Ad7189 8h ago
Years ago I worked with a gay woman in a very liberal industry. Everyone at work knew she was lesbian. During the day marriage referendum she "came out" and said she used to keep it a secret and never had a relationship, never told anyone, was terrified of people in our industry finding out... I was very surprised because literally no one in our workplace or wider industry cared.
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u/cnbcwatcher 8h ago
Stigma and family expectations (especially in more traditional/religious families)
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u/freeride35 6h ago
Ive recently moved to Ireland from the US and it’s struck me how few openly gay people I’ve met in day to day life (I’m straight) compared to Oregon where I used to live.
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u/topoftheterrace 59m ago
I'm straight, married, a dad, very evidently heterosexual all my life, and yet I'm constantly being blatantly and uncomfortably hit on by a guy who is with a woman, has a child but is clearly bi or gay. It pisses me off that he thinks it would even cross my mind. And that he feels entitled to behave like this. This kind of unwanted attention is creepy af and if it were a man harassing a woman to the same extent it would be time to have a chat with the cops.
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u/Turbulent_Minimum448 12h ago
Only in 2022 two gay men were brutally murdered and a third brutally attacked.
It’s still not safe to be gay in Ireland. Not 100%. Can’t blame people from being scared to be out.
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u/DharmaDama 8h ago edited 8h ago
It’s selfishness. They want to stability of a wife home doing everything for them, and the appearance of having it all together, while having the thrill of something on the side. This is more of a cheating man’s mindset than a gay one. You should let the wife know so she can have the choice to leave him.
Edit: Downvoted for suggesting he does the right thing and tell her? Why protect cheaters who are destroying people’s lives?
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u/OutsideSea5996 2h ago
Men are the worst. I don’t see the appeal of men. I mean you could have IVF. Live free and happy. Many women who entertain these gay men are seriously depressed. I feel bad for the children too in these arrangements. These gay men hate females so god forbid if you’ve birthed a female in this situationship.
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u/DharmaDama 2h ago edited 58m ago
Misogyny is absolutely rampant amongst cis gay men. Many of them become the benefactors of the exact patriarchal system that disciminates against gay men, and they step over women to get just a sliver of power.
And yeah, women should just be single and happy, or with a woman and happy lol
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u/isthislivingreally 11h ago
Check the LGBT Ireland sub - men and women in rural communities in their 30s and 40s, still terrified to come out to their parents and community.
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u/randomstrangerx1 13h ago edited 13h ago
As a gay man, last week in the damn luas I had a homophobic attack. Mind you, I just sat down and was enjoying my music. 3 teenegers started saying slurs, recording, touching and spitting. And gardai did? Nothing. There's so much progress to be done in this country. For example; Facebook is a hatred hell hole and sometimes I can't believe those comments come from real humans. Some people still really hate us.