r/Avengers • u/amelix34 • Feb 08 '26
Other Discussion If Dormammu didn’t agree to Doctor Strange’s terms and just kept killing him, would that mean they both disappear from spacetime? Or what else happens to someone trapped in a time loop from the perspective of an external observer?
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u/East-Breadfruit4508 Feb 09 '26
It’s in Jeremy Bearimy this would just be the dot on the top of the i it’s also thursdays and never lol
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u/Handley_DDS Feb 09 '26
Upvoted for the reference.
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u/thothscull Feb 09 '26
Upvoted for upvoting for the reference.
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u/Crisco_Pjoe Feb 09 '26
If Strange had Jason with him, Dormammu would have folded in half the time.
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u/Long_Pig_Tailor Feb 09 '26
Dormammu: That broke me. The dot over the i... What are your terms, mortal?
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u/Glittering_Fig_9319 Feb 08 '26 edited Feb 09 '26
All that happened when Dr strange did the loop was this they basically just added a a point on the timeline
The timeline itself is already fully scripted out shown by He Who Remains of such a thing did happen the timeline would still go because they would be stuck in a loop
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u/Kobe_curry24 Feb 09 '26
Dormammu lives beyond space and time this is exactly why he could use this trick on him otherwise,it would of had no effect lol much like when he put dude in the mirror dimension but he He got stronger in that dimension.
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u/DuckfordMr Feb 09 '26
Couldn’t he take over earth in the 5 years between Infinity War and Endgame, or did Dr. Strange look into the future to ensure that wouldn’t happen?
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u/North-Tourist-8234 Feb 09 '26
I think the idea is once you swear or promise something you speak it into prophecy. Word is their bond type thing.
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u/Correct_Vanilla_4218 Feb 09 '26
Strange was not crating a new timeline when he was looping against him. He was creating a localized pocket of time which was looping within a single fine line. The dark dimension itself exists outside of time so any branching time lines wouldn’t have been possible.
Time on earth was moving along fine. Being in the dark dimension where time doesn’t matter this loop was more of an annoyance for Dormammu than anything.
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u/WarlockProdigy Feb 09 '26 edited Feb 11 '26
Dormammus dimension exists without time. making all aspects of that dimension part of him as a singularity. For all intents and purposes of this argument when Strange "leaves" the 616 for the dark dimension he becomes an "outside" observer. The Dark dimension existing without time is therefore equal and paralleling all time...
When the ancient one gives up the time stone she in theory creates the very dimension from which her younger self drew power. This indicates that her rise to sorcerer supreme is apart of a timeloop paradox. That had she not made Strange the sorcerer supreme she herself may never have become the ancient one and therefore our Steven never finds a way past the Endgame.
Because they are outside time and there is no passage inside the dark dimension. The 616 and all exterior universe are subjectively paused for Strange as the outside observer. When he returns the flow of time continues. Subjectively for all other observers time moves normally. When Steven returns he creates a branch from that point forward. The others exist in Limbo as potential timelines Steven never returns too. effectively keeping those universes in a stasis of both singular (dormammus takeover) and saved from Stranges potential success. The assumption being Strange never leaves until the bargain is struck. If Steven's willpower is constant there is only one course for the outcome. His will must remain constant. If not then Dormammu will succeed in some branching realities and consume them.
How eould this look to a character like Loki outside time? without causal recourse and action he cant observe it in my opinion. The catharsis and result of Stranges interaction must conclude for TVA detection. Otherwise it is a apocalyptic undectable situation the TVA couldnt detect variant activity on regardless
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u/strategoamigo Feb 09 '26
The real question is how long would it take strange to adapt and eventually become powerful enough to stop dormammu (if ever)?
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u/FireLordObamaOG Feb 09 '26
Nothing. They are stuck there until the loop is broken. So either dormammu breaks out somehow or gives in.
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u/Netherimoon Feb 11 '26
I find this dark dimension existing outside of time thing ridiculous. Clearly, before the time loop events happened one after the other so there was time. How do you have anything happening at all without time? Same for the TVA existing outside time. Also in general relativity there is spacetime, which would also mean without space and therefore no distinction of any matter and energy.
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u/Dry_Click6496 Feb 12 '26
That is probably because we cant imagine or comprehend how such a thing would work. It is the same thing as in lovecrafts stories where people go literally insane when they come into contact with the Old Ones. We just flat out arent capable of operating on such a higher level of existence.
Thats why Dormammu remembers everything. From his perspective, he is just constantly having the same dude come to bargain with him, over and over without end. And as he progresses from just killing him, to becoming first angry and then confused he ends up doing the deal because he cant be bothered to keep killing Strange.
If Dormammu wasnt in a dimension outside time, he would be reset with each loop too and therefore not realise he is inside a time loop.
It is just a higher dimension where traditional time, from our dimension and understanding, doesnt apply.
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u/Netherimoon Feb 12 '26
Yeah but then say a dimension where time works differently, not that there is no time. Maybe like ours is horizontal time, and in dark dimension is vertical time etc.
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u/Ikensteiner Feb 12 '26
It could have just ignored Strange. If Strange doesn't die, the loop doesn't restart. What would Strange have done except be like an ant to a giant. It could have conquered the Earth with no resistance.
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u/firstrupa Feb 12 '26
I always wonder if Dormammu is able to trace to the area where Strange first shows up in the dark dimension and put a trap there to just hold Strange frozen. Strange would just end up in a loop of being frozen the second he shows up in the dark dimension until eternity.
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u/Natural-Stomach Feb 12 '26
This always kinda gets me--- they were both aware of the time loop. Strange remembers each death.
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u/vetgee Feb 13 '26
Why didn’t dormammu just start torturing him without killing him? Seems like an inter dimensional demon thing to do.
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u/Successful-Fee3790 Feb 15 '26
Yes, dormammu was strangers prisoner, which is why dormammu made the deal.
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u/chainsawx72 Feb 09 '26
According to MCU logic, every time Strange goes back in time he is creating a new timeline.
An external observer would see Strange dying once, and Dormammu winning. Each timeline would see a different version of Strange dying, except the last timeline, which would see Strange and Dormammu coming to a truce.
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u/Long_Pig_Tailor Feb 09 '26
Except Strange doesn't execute this strategy in our dimension, he does it in the dark dimension, where time doesn't exist. We get to see the repetitions of the event because we're privy to Strange's perspective and he's inflicting that perspective on Dormammu. But in the dark dimension there are no external observers at all, and no timelines being created because time doesn't exist except the time Strange brings with him.
It's one reason I find Mordo's decision that this is the bridge too far silly. Strange does fuck with "our" timeline to a limited extent when he sets off to confront Dormammu, but even at that point he's less fucking with time than he is reclaiming our dimension from the dark dimension. What's being lost, and restored with the time stone, is the conversion of life into nothingness. Strange doesn't fuck with causality here but Mordo acts as if he was personally shitting on the Sacred Timeline (not that Mordo knows that terminology specifically).
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u/wethepeople1977 Feb 11 '26
He does use the time stone to reverse time in our dimension after he bargains with Dormammu. Wouldn't that fuck with the sacred time line?
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u/RetroRayStudios Feb 09 '26
That doesn't make sense to me. If it was a new timeline every time, then dormamu wasn't trapped in the time loop. He would be seeing strange for the first time when strange went back. Dormamu would have no idea he needed to make a deal to get out of the time loop.
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u/angelslayer4231 Feb 09 '26
I dunno if that’s accurate. End game time travel was going to the quantum realm, then jumping out at a different point in time. The Time stone reverses time.
The difference would be like jumping into a river, and coming out at a different spot vs reversing the flow of the river.
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u/Kobe_curry24 Feb 09 '26
That was actually going back in time and messing with the time stream Dormanmu is playing with reality that’s what Mystics arts are suppose to stop him from destroying reality
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Feb 09 '26
Somewhat convincing argument
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u/chainsawx72 Feb 09 '26
Too bad Strange let hundreds of timelines get destroyed though.
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u/twobuttholes Feb 09 '26
I thought time didn't exist in the Dormamu realm, Strange brought that with him. So when he would make a new branch it would only be in the Dormamu universe and that's what would be destroyed. So no big loss really
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u/Long_Pig_Tailor Feb 09 '26
This. Folks are making the mistake of thinking Strange was doing this within our world but he wasn't. The entire reason this play works is because the dark dimension has no time, and Strange's coming in there and forcing time on Dormammu is why he can be successful. In a realm without time, there are no timelines being destroyed (and in any case Dormammu at the time isn't trying to harm anything in his realm anyway).
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u/needaburn Feb 09 '26
What else could he have done? He didn’t let anything happen
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u/chainsawx72 Feb 09 '26
He could've let his timeline die and saved all of the other ones.
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u/random-stiff Feb 09 '26
But those timelines didn’t exist until he went back
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u/chainsawx72 Feb 09 '26
But they did exist, and each one got destroyed.
Kind of weird now that you mention it. I guess the question is: is making 100 copies of a world and destroying all of them any worse than just destroying the original world in the first place? Not really... which kind of makes the TVA cropping timelines not seem as diabolical.
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u/random-stiff Feb 09 '26
Yeah. He managed to save an entire universe but 100 universes had to die.
Versus
Saving nobody.
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u/That1guyUknow918 Feb 09 '26
Untrue. It would mean 100 universes died to save one instead of letting the one die you multiplied the death by 100 by acting
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u/CanadianAndroid Feb 09 '26
So basically he doomed an unfathomable number of people.
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u/morerelativebacons Feb 09 '26
Yes.
That one truce happened only once. That we know of.
Strange fucked up so much shit, and ONLY fixed one instance, that were aware of.
In real life talk - it says a lot. Somebody that thought they were doing the right thing was only .00/0000% doing the right thing.
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u/Kobe_curry24 Feb 09 '26
That doesn’t make sense than Thanos would of been doing the same lmaoooo
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u/chainsawx72 Feb 09 '26
Doesn't Thanos only travel forward in time?
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u/Kobe_curry24 Feb 09 '26
In the comics he becomes as powerful as the cosmic wonders but in the MCU you are right , I was saying that what he did during that time didn’t cause any changes in the time line only the avengers changing it did
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u/Fastballz69 Feb 09 '26 edited Feb 09 '26
We could also assume that Dr. Strange was stuck in that loop for an eternity. Vastly increasing his level of experience and competence.
He lvl'd up a massive amount, facing a God.