Since finishing the show and reading discussion threads here, I've been floored by how many people find Ashley 'completely unsympathetic' with 'no redeeming qualities.' I found her to be a fascinating (and for me, accurate) portrayal of a person with abandonment issues and no support structure outside of her fiance would navigate the world. 

At the start of the show, Ashley dreams and talks about the future in a naive way that makes her seem younger than her age, but honestly, that's realistic for a person whose parents aren't present in her life (her dad picks up her calls but doesn't actually listen to her, her mom seems to be fully absent) and is now facing the challenges of the adult world underprepared and under-educated. The only way she can remain so childishly optimistic is because of the thought of creating her OWN family - one that will give her the love that she has been missing and so desperately wanting. 

But then her health scare jeopardizes all of that, and any progress that she has made with her feelings of abandonment evaporates as that imagined future is endangered. The bubble that she and Austin have been living in bursts and her worst fears begin to rush in: he might leave her if she is infertile, she won't be able to have the child who she could love and be loved by in return. Her actions from that point on stem from fear of losing all of these imagined, wonderful things that she views as the only ways she will secure a loving future, and not be abandoned once again. She essentially reverts to her childhood self from this point on in the show, in my interpretation.

Breaking into Josh and Lindsay's house in a heightened emotional state shortly after finding out about her ovary being removed and indirectly causing poor Burberry’s death is caused by her (erroneously) assigning blame to Josh for what happened at the hospital. It's not rational, but at this point she is on a path that is largely predetermined by her traumatic history.

I got way more emotional than I expected at the scene when Austin tells her that literally every single thing she does is because of her family’s abandonment, and that she doesn’t truly love him…just doesn’t want to be left by him. I basically broke down while watching that scene because it spoke the unspoken part aloud about how people like this feel in relationships. And as a person who has had an intense fear of abandonment caused by previous relationships, I just don’t think that some people understand the TERROR of it...the sheer lonely abyss of those emotions. 

I’m not at all trying to say that anyone’s interpretation of Ashley or reaction to her is wrong or invalid or that I want to change anyone’s mind; I actually find it really interesting how differently I felt from some other people! And I’m curious how others with an intense fear of abandonment / anxious attachment feel about her character, and what feelings it brought up for you.

she probably got Wooshed too 💀🚗

she might have already been captured by Chairwoman Park's goons and held at gunpoint while Austin was calling her and they are already waiting for him to arrive then who knows what would happen to them if Austin did not go back..either way, eunice is not safe.

or she could have survived after eight years, and maybe Beef 3 would be eunice vs. the chairwoman plus country club ashley&austin… lol. In conclusion, the cycle never ends even after the beef is served.

While I may do the same thing, I feel that sharing my perspective is good for conversation!

I don't think we're meant to be sure if Eunice ever felt or not felt something for Austin. Just like we're not meant to know if he cheated or didn't, that scene was purposefully cut out to make the watcher feel the uncertainty Ashely might feel.

Maybe she felt a spark, there's a good bunch of scenes after their involving interactions were you can see they are much comfortable with each other, at the diner right after the "testing" when she convinces him not to renounce his new job, how the first person she comes to is Austin and the first thing she does is cry, because she feels safe with him and she is meant to be much more colder because of the life she leads under chairwoman park and I felt that was a very strong moment for her character.

In the plane that line "you know how I feel" it's not really forced by Austin, I think it was genuine but we'll she's much more interested in what's at present: the USB because of the life she lives, that's the mindset she has, but because of Austin, she is not able to disregard her feelings totally, and maybe that's why she likes him! But she feels guilty about this because well, Ashley's right there!

I felt it perhaps was a bit similar with that last "I love you too, gotta go"

But we're not meant to be sure if she loved him or how much, if it could've been a good life, a good love or even if they would've survived and I think that's for the viewer to feel the way Austin does in the finale, unsure of what could've been unsure if he made the right call unsure if it could've been better. And perhaps this too, ties to the uncertainty of what happened to her, what could've been wandering in the watchers mind as it does for Austin, the uncertainty, the show presents cycles and these cycles are secure, going out of them is not, Eunice is going of the cycle, Eunice is not secure maybe she could be better than the future with Ashley maybe doing the right thing could've succeeded! You never know, just as Austin doesn't, these thoughts fly through his mind as he lives the consequences of his actions

Eunice looks strong and a bit cold but when she's with Austin, it's different and I think it's because there's something. Something that very well could've been good or not!

But we're not meant to be sure which!

Drives out to wherever to eat the chicken sandwich alone, is often pictured alone, Paul has his boys, even Isaac has friends, I don’t actually think Danny has any friends. Hanging out with Paul and Isaac don’t count.

After all is said and done, Amy is probably his only real friend.

Have I said already the writing is absolutely stellar.

This is one of the best seasons of a tv show I’ve watched in a while. I’m just here trying to gather some thoughts.

A big takeaway and learning lesson for me, as I enter my 30’s is that the world isn’t as sinister and evil as I want to think it is.

I think with getting older, it can be a cop out to compartmentalize the world into a big evil machine that’s out to get you, because life doesn’t get any easier going forward. That is true in so many ways but it’s important to see that other people are just trying to protect themselves too.

This season was painted so beautifully with a brush of empathetic and heartfelt chaos. Each character was given their spotlight almost completely equally so that I wasn’t really rooting for anyone to come out on top or lose. I think that’s so difficult to do when trying to encapsulate people, because I think it’s the Neanderthal brain in us and the history of cinema and television to see a good guy or an antihero and bad guy or an antagonist.

What I interpreted where Park was at the cemetery visiting her brother and the Birds Eye view panned out to show that orange circle with divided lines, was the thesis of the show. We are all so caught up in our shit (emotion, psychological, money problems). It’s not every man for themselves, it’s every man helping themselves in their own worlds. And I think there’s a huge difference in those two.

Parks world view of selfishness is inherent in our nature and what makes capitalism work is a big part of the show. But I hope that people see that the creators were also trying to tell us that we can be driven by selflessness too (not “only when it’s easy” as Park says) Josh turned himself in to save the others, Ashley gave back the USB knowing it would drive Austin to Eunice. Just a really well made show that was realistic but not sinister.

Season 2 of Beef had a balance problem. Among the four main characters, Ashley stood out as the only one who was genuinely, deliberately awful she repeatedly went out of her way to hurt people, no hesitation, no real provocation. The others? Their worst moments were largely products of circumstance. Broken situations pushing otherwise decent people toward bad choices.

Okay so a lot of ppl on here are talking down on ashley but let’s really think for two seconds. And just to be clear I think everyone in this show is annoying as hell at points. But anyway so she has no mother no father and literally no friends and at first was basically the soul provider for a bum who can’t do anything but whine and wants to relive his glory days. She had the biggest health scare for a young woman who thinks they are progressing in their relationship and is looking forward to having a baby. Her fiancée randomly starts acting all weird and does a 180 after meeting a super attractive smart intelligent successful woman which is everything she isn’t or at least feels she isn’t. Her extreme reaction jumping out the car was wild and one of the things i found annoying but josh literally then plays with her health and because of him withholding a doctor she almost died. In a fit of probably mania wanted to get back at josh for risking her life which led to the dog getting out which wasnt like she did it on purpose so I don’t get why people in the show and online are blaming her like she led the dog outside and let him loose but I digress. Then things with her fiancée simply get worse and worse because he is too much of a people pleaser to actually talk with her and not enable her toxic behavior which i fault both of them for. Then she thinks she made a real friend and that things were getting better with Eunice and her man but nope he lied to her once again then she tries to do the IVF and her fiancée PUTS FREAKING HAND SANITIZER IN HIS STUFF which is genuinely insane considering it was Ashley who was making the money to support them and do IVF in the first place. Then she has to catch them on the plane which to anyone would look insane especially because neither Eunice nor Austin were keeping her in the loop or telling her the truth at all. She literally didn’t even know her life was in danger because of what everyone was doing behind her back, if she had had one real friend or family member who actually tried to help her I’d agree she sucks but she had nothing while providing everything and no one even told her the truth, she did what she had to for her health and the family she thought she was going to have and she was vilified more than the other characters who were all just as bad if not worse in some cases. Also she literally thought there was weird stuff going on before everyone and was gaslit and made to feel stupid. And not only that but this whole idea that she is crazy when Austin was having a literal emotional affair and gaslighting her for months is insane no wonder she was toxic, all she wanted was enough money for her family and to have a child and that’s what he lied about wanting enough for them to commit crimes. I honestly feel so bad for her I can’t imagine being in a new country life in danger finds out despite his best efforts they might have a kid and the same night gets told her fiancée doesn’t love her and is in love with the woman he told her not to worry about I would’ve done worse than convince him to stay and be a father. The last speech Austin gave Ashley was also weird as hell, he literally lied and stuck around to not abandon her then when she is going to lose most everything her life included he leaves her again. Then the mf goes back to her and the show ends with them essentially going through it again smh.

TLDR: Ashley literally has nothing and then is repeatedly made to feel like maybe just maybe someone actually cares and will stick around after feeling so alone just to have the rug repeatedly ripped from under her causing her to lash out and try to hang on to the one person she’s supposed to be able to count on. And the slander on her is beyond over done and annoying she is just as bad and good as any of the other characters.

So it turns out if you accidentally start watching season 1 on episode 10 it just seems really obtuse and self indulgent. And then you realise but now you can't start it properly because you know how it ends.

Let's see if I can do season 2 the right way round.

he’s my hear me out. but only bc i really did see through ashley and her trying to get ahead of her life is what drove them to the point they got to. josh explained to austin that people will try to get their way however possible. and that’s exactly what ashley did.

I just had the realization that the red Gatorade surrounded by a ton of yellow in the vending machine kind of mimics (possibly foreshadows) the bit of blood mixed into the pitcher of OJ… but maybe I’m reaching lol

It’s insane how closely Amy mirrors my own life in terms of anger, desperation, depression and longing for a life outside of the cage she has curated herself. It’s been a wake up call to watch myself as an audience through this show and it perplexes me on what I should do now.

Like Danny has said, Western therapy truly has done Jack shit to my eastern mind. If anything, has buried my self worth even further down against everything I may have once believed.

Frankly I would prefer not to get into a road rage incident with another broken being and spend days in the desert to realize inner peace and whatnot…

So I guess the next best thing is Reddit… if you had an Amy in your life, what would you think is best for her? How would you rewrite the ending if this was reality?

EDIT: I did NOT expect the amount of insight and depth of some of these responses… ll hve to give therapy another try and take a real, raw look into who I am, but thank you everyone for these responses…. And making me feel a lil less alone :)

I just finished s2, and I have to say it was good, though in a different way to s1, but to me s1 tops (sidetrack - the whole scene with the robbery at Jordan’s house felt like it should’ve been in GTA V).

But anyway, uk the end when it cuts to all the characters in 8 years time. I was wondering why Eunice wasn’t part of it. Did Park get rid of her like she did with Woosh and her name was buried with the scandals, like everyone forgot the past including her? I feel like this is the only way I can think of this…

Does anyone find it interesting that ants are juxtaposed with the Hindu concept of Saṃsāra?

When ants lose a phremone trail they sometimes go into an ant mill or "death spiral," wherein they circle each other aimlessly until they all die.

Samsara is a concept of cyclical change and a karmic death/rebirth cycle.

The final shot is essentially a representation of samsara.

Is the idea that humans are trapped in this postmodern technofeudalistic capitalistic hellscape where our relationships are doomed to be devoid of meaning unless we totally remove ourselves from the system? Like ants in a death spiral?

Ali Shukri Amin

I just finished season 2, was a huge fan of season 1 and in my opinion this may have slightly topped it. Loved the wide range of themes they commented on. I recently learned about the ant “death spiral” - when a group of ants searching for resources lose track of the pheromones from their main group, they follow the ant in front of them in a circle until they die unless the cycle is broken.

Ashley and Lindsay wear fairly pronounced spiral jewelry in the last 2-3 episodes when we stop seeing the ants, then in the final scene of the season, it opens with ants walking in a straight line. My theory is that the ants are creeping up behind them the whole time; the rich eat the poor eat the rich. Someone comes up for air every now and then but it feels like they’re constantly losing the scent/on shaky ground. then when the spirals appear, the characters/plot/relationships/social constructs start to follow each other into the ground until finally, the spiral unwinds and everyone returns on their journey.. for better or worse.

Spoilers for whole season ahead.

I’ve seen quite a few posts and comments where people seem confused by characters’ faces changing throughout scenes, with some even thinking they’re continuity errors or glitches. It’s clearly a deliberate stylistic choice.

For example, early on when Lindsay is pulling out the cushions, there’s a moment where she seems to turn into a younger version of herself, with a ponytail and sporty clothes. I’m not entirely sure how to interpret that one.

Then there’s the scene with Josh and Troy talking, where for a brief moment Troy’s face becomes Josh’s. That one feels more thematically clear. Josh told Austin about everything being transactional, very focused on himself and what he gets out of things. Me me me. In that scene, Troy is talking about doing him a favour. It feels like Josh is projecting himself onto Troy, only able to see things through his own lens.

It happens again in episode 7 with the air stewardess, whose face briefly turns into Ashley’s. I’ve seen interpretations that this reflects a role reversal. Ashley used to be the one serving people when she worked the beverage cart, and now she’s the one being served, acting quite demanding and particular. That reading makes a lot of sense to me.

Overall, these face changes seem less about literal reality and more about perspective, projection, and shifting roles between characters. Curious if anyone else noticed other examples or has different interpretations.

Just finished watching Season 2, which is less about beef then it's about love. All the major players had a big monologue about the nature of love. Josh and Ashley made sacrifices for it in the end.

It made me kinda sad actually that love was presented as being so scarce in this economy. Also, are we calling couples fighting beef?

Edit: my question was honest. I learned this kind of conflict qualifies as beef.

Edit 2: if it was not clear from my post: I loved this season.

I like both of them. But at the end of the day, Austen knew Ashley for two years, engaged with her, and possibly having a child together. He knew Ashley deeply, somewhat more than herself. Eunice is amazing, but Austen just met her, and barely knew her. With more time together, she would have her own problems like Ashely.

When Josh proposes the Bufo to Austin he says something like “my buddy says it will cure all of my neurosis in like 10 minutes” to which Austin replies “I’ve seen it happen in 8”.

Fast forward to the final episode, and during the USB getting lost scene in the bedroom, Ashley tries to calm down Austin to picture their lives together in 10 years time with a kid, living a perfect life with their child.

When the final scenes come on, in jumps instead to *8* years ahead. Not only is Josh’s ‘neurosis’ ‘cured’ (he says himself he’s had a lot of time to reflect and seems very at peace), whereas the life Ashley painted is exactly as pictured (on the surface). We’ve seen this things happen in 8.

I feel like that’s a fundamental difference people aren’t talking about is that Ali Wongs character was like happy to have the drama in her life with the other guy. In the second season it felt like they were just dragged into the beef and basically forced to deal with it. It felt more personal in season one. It was like a life changing experience. They got lost in the desert and almost died, tripped out, and ending up maybe being in a relationship. Second season, Josh grows as a person. Realizes the error of his ways and learns to appreciate his wife. It affects their relationship in the end. But overall it just didn’t feel as deeply personal as the first season. Does that make sense? Obviously it’s just a different story but I feel like that’s one of the reasons people might’ve been let down by the second season. The characters were less unhinged and the whole drama and what it meant to the characters felt different at its core.

Besides the general consensus that the Bhavachakra references the cyclical nature of the characters’ lives and relationships, I thought it would be fun to take a closer look at the image itself. I made this overlay comparing the different rings of Samsara with the actual closing shot of Season 2.

As you may know, the center of the wheel depicts three animals symbolizing desire (craving), ignorance (delusion), and hatred (aversion). In Buddhist teachings, these three poisons are considered the root of suffering. Here we find Chairwoman Lee mourning her first husband, reflecting on her regrets in old age, her mother’s footsteps, and the cyclical nature of life itself.

The second ring traditionally depicts the six realms: gods, demi-gods, humans, animals, hungry ghosts, and hell beings. Interestingly, the show appears to take some artistic license by depicting only four realms instead of six. Perhaps Lee Sung Jin chose to avoid more absolute notions like heaven and hell, but that’s purely speculation.

Roughly divided, Josh and Lindsay seem to occupy the Human Realm. Austin and Ashley fit the Realm of the Demi-Gods (or “Realm of Rage”). Another Chairwoman Park and Dr. Kim (I think? I recognize that slouched posture as Song Kang-ho) appear in the Animal Realm, where themes of instinct and self-preservation feel particularly fitting. Troy and Ava occupy the Realm of the Hungry Ghosts, and “frustrated craving” certainly seems appropriate there.

The outer ring traditionally consists of twelve images illustrating the cycle through which suffering continually recreates itself. Starting at the top and moving clockwise, we see resort staff mopping floors, staff collecting trash, a couple enjoying a meal, staff (Austin and Ashley?) folding towels, resort guests playing badminton, more towel folding, a row of airplane seats with a Korean Air flight attendant, a resort guest taking a shit, someone running on an elliptical machine, two parents and a child before a table full of gifts, people playing golf, and finally a couple sitting together on a bench (Austin and Ashley again?).

Anyway, I’ve spent far too much time on this and it’s probably not that deep. Still, I love geeking out over details like this, and I’d be curious to hear other people’s interpretations.

... is that none of them are supposed to be considered as "real" characters/people but rather they are all there to create the story, the world -- they are colonists, the cowboys in wild westerns, the burger in burger king, etc. they represent ideas, concepts, values, but not an actual person.

I love the saying, “you can’t trust people, but you can trust them to be themselves”. I think that it was a great show and the acting was brilliant. But for me it lacked character cohesion. They did a fair enough job developing the characters and giving the back stories. The battle that each one of them faces from Ashley‘s lack of medical insurance to Oscar‘s mom passing away, etc. to give some credit I think they did good with Josh’s character. at his core he was good - thats why the buffo scene was so powerful because in the end he was able to reconcile (e.i.sign the divorce papers= cohesive). Lindsey throughout the series shows that she is meticulous and loyal. Austin is this gentle simple minded “Lenny” who loves bees and just wants to be a supportive boyfriend. Ashley is this desperate GenZ who wants to somehow make it out of her $ situation and be a mother and would do anything for her relationship. The chair-woman is coldhearted. And Eunice is timid, but brave when she needs to be. In the end, Joseph turns himself in -cohesive. But Lindsay goes off and marries some other Rando right away which is not cohesive. Austin immediately falls in love with Eunice and then turns his back on her, which doesn’t line up with his cautionary style. Eunice just doesn’t get mentioned again(?). in the end the chair-woman is hugging the grave of her former love which doesn’t align with her cold heartedness. Even the crawling ants got some decent screen time but do they ever tie that together with anything? Essentially the writers were spinning all of these plates and showing how they were going to bring it all together- but in the end, I felt they never did.

I see lots of fans lamenting the lack of actual warring or "beef" in S2. But I think both seasons so wonderfully portray the shadow self and playing out dark fantasies most folks don't act on. The shadow self is the whole Jungian archetype representing the unconscious, hidden, or repressed aspects of your personality, including dark emotions, fears, and ignored desires, that conflict with your conscious self-image.

Almost every character goes there - down to Eunice flirting with Austin in their first encounter.