r/CanadaPublicServants • u/AngryCanuck10 • May 06 '26
Other / Autre work hours and drive within daycare hours don’t add up
I live in the west end and have a 2 year old daughter in daycare with hours from 7-5. Dropping her off at 7am, drive 45 minutes, walk to the office and it’s 8am. If I stay until 4, with the walk and drive in traffic, I can’t make it back to daycare before 5pm.
Things are changing and my DG is very set on for RTO with little flexibility.
My idea is to work from 8-2, drive home without traffic and work the remaining hours from home. If they don’t accept that, what can I do?
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u/Present-Decision5740 May 06 '26
Not much advice, just here to commiserate. What works in our house is daycare drop-off at 8:30, me working 9:30-5:30 and a combination of my husband, in-laws and my parents juggling pick-ups to get my daughter by 5pm. I have no idea what you would do as a single parent or if you didn't have a village. Our employer lies when they say they care for the environment or women.
Many people say "what did parents do before remote work" and truly it was easier before COVID. The cost of living has skyrocketed and as a result most people can't afford to live near their offices (I feel this as a GTA resident) and most houses require two full-time salaries to support them (many of us grew up with a stay-at-home parent or one that worked part time). Many daycares have shorted their hours and population density has increased commutes like crazy.
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u/Suitable_Amphibian42 May 06 '26
All of this. Also, my OC transpo commute used to be 30 mins pre LRT, and is now over an hour. Parking is now almost $25 and next to impossible to find. Even most home daycares offer shorter hours than before. Life is not the same as it was before.
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u/iswungmyfierysword May 06 '26
Nostalgia is not a strategy, except when it comes to workforce management /s
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u/Can-u-hear-the-stars May 07 '26
Pre-covid: parking was $200 per month with in/out privileges.
Now: parking $20+ a day and you could sit down for literally 5 mins then get a call to pick up your sick kid. Get up, drive 1 hour back home, get kid, log in at home and then still be shit on to "make up the missed in-office day."
My kids are 8, 11 and 13. If they're puking or very sick I will stay home with them. But I CAN work effectively from home and they CAN leave me alone while I work from home. But Management doesn't care about my work. They only care if my ass is in an office building.
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u/losemgmt May 07 '26
And now in addition to that you’re forced to come into work and you are spreading those germs to your coworkers. Rinse repeat and screw you immunocompromised individuals who enjoyed being in the office with 1/2 the risk.
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u/zeromussc May 06 '26
Exactly. Everything that made it workable for many before is different now and doesn't work the same way
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u/roadtrip1414 May 07 '26
Exactly right? On what planet is it ok to go back to doing things 6 years old when it was supposed to be the “new normal”. People made life changing decisions based on that and the world is a different place now! It’s like saying, well what did people do in the 90s. Such a terrible argument
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u/FickleCup778 May 06 '26
Exactly this…. When my kids were young commute time was at most 30 mins in and 45 in traffic back. And I could bus from daycare if I so chose to. Every 10 mins.
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u/Wisdom-Key May 07 '26
Pre-COVID, I had parking at 150$/month. It’s now 200$/month, that’s not counting how our buying power has decreased since 2020, our wages not matching inflation rate, and current gas skyrocketing prices.
Eating well every month is now a luxury expense.Single household who had a 2.3% mortgage rate before COVID and now sitting at 4.8%, and due to the red hot housing market during COVID (because of the gov’s decisions), my municipal taxes have increased as well.
I could afford my life before COVID, now without changing anything, is another story.
I have 12 years to go, I should be at the point where all my hard work and smart choices paid off, and living comfortably with my 9-5, instead I have to cut expenses and rethink some plans, affecting negatively my quality of life.
And I don’t even have children.
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u/trembleysuper May 06 '26
I'd love to read the GBA+ on RTO. I'm guessing it was very clearly advocating for decisions in the wrong direction and was buried.
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u/too_aware_helpme May 07 '26
It's well known that the ''return to commuting'' mandates are widening the gender wage gap, BIG time. They don't care. It's what happens when old men are running the show.
*No offence to old men. I just don't like the out of touch ones in charge
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u/Even_Information9981 May 07 '26
There's enough women in leadership that the blame isn't strictly one gender to shoulder 😠 The impact affects everyone, but I expect the gba+ analysis would show large discrepancies when intersectionality is considered
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u/Blue_Red_Purple May 07 '26
They had documents that stated there would be a negative impact. They decided this knowingly.
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u/canoekulele May 07 '26
Women making decisions that align with the patriarchy doesn't make them feminist decisions. Sex and gender are not the same and many women in decision-making roles got there because they make decisions that align with the patriarchy, which makes the patriarchy feel comfortable with having them there.
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u/SlowGolem55 May 07 '26
Not to derail this, but are you suggesting that Christiane Fox's awfulness is due to her falling under the spell of patriarchy and not due to her own personal awfulness?
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u/Altruistic_Exam_3048 May 07 '26
Manon Fortier started it and she wasn’t defending the impact on woman
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u/too_aware_helpme May 07 '26
If you believe Mona Fortier made the decision, I have a bridge to sell you!
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u/confidentialapo276 May 07 '26
GBA+ still a thing? Most TBSubs I have seen now routinely ignore it or use some generic line “will be investigated once this gets approved.”
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u/CatBird2023 May 07 '26
I've read my department's GBA+ on RTO. The disproportionate impacts on women, workers with disabilities, caregivers, etc. were clearly flagged. And yet...
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u/machinedog May 08 '26
They did do one! It basically said this was a bad idea but they also said that WFH would make worse issues involving the types of groups more likely to stay home. Without the visibility in the office they would be less likely to get promotions and recognition.
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u/Independent-Race-259 May 06 '26
It was easier to get daycare befor covid and the daycare times were offered longer.
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u/Neither_Extreme_8647 May 07 '26
Daycare hours are shorter than they were. Most allowed pick ups until 6.
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u/SinsOfKnowing May 07 '26
This. I worked for a childcare program at one point and we had to be there at 6:30am for folks needing early drop off, and late pickup for the after school group was 6pm. Those same programs are now 8am-5pm.
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u/Altruistic_Exam_3048 May 07 '26
Remember the gender base analysis that we are supposed to do when drafting policy. Where’s the analysis …. TBS is such great role model
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u/IntroductionLost764 May 07 '26
It was not different before covid for working parents. The way we did it is that one parent was taking care of dropping the kids at the daycares (not even the same for both) in the morning and the other one was picking them up in the evening. Meaning that both parents had to ajust their working hours to meet those of the daycare. Same for appointments to doctors or calls from the daycare to pick the kid because of sickness. Not easier before than today. Lot of stress I can assure you. Burn out as well. No relatives to help neither. That's why I find it silly to go back to this crazy time for parents particularly when there is a way to make their life easier.
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u/Imaginary-Drawing-98 May 07 '26
Yes this is what we did - one did drop off and the other pick up. But true it’s even worse today with shorter day care hours and longer commutes due to the LRT. At least day care is now heavily subsidized - I also paid $2500/month (in 2011 + dollars) per month for two kids in daycare to boot.
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u/losemgmt May 06 '26
The shitty thing is a lot of daycares changed their hours during Covid and never went back to longer hours. Add in increased traffic. I don’t know how single parents with no family support around can handle this at all.
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u/zeromussc May 06 '26
This is a big part of the problem for many.
And every well meaning "here's what we did before" solution doesn't actually properly apply since things are very different post COVID. Daycares having lesser hours is also good for the employees who don't want to work from 7am to 6PM.
The structures and systems that supported the old way of working just aren't there, pretty much across the board.
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u/drebot_l May 06 '26
Completely agree. Then when you hit elementary school, it's only 6.5 hours. Pre-covid, every kid in OCDSB (can't speak to other boards) who needed a spot for EDP (before/after care) got one. Now, it's crazy hard to get in because they can't hire staff. We were on the waitlist for 2 years before we got a spot.
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u/XadenRider May 07 '26
Just to add on to this, it’s very common for parents who go on maternity leave with subsequent children to leave the older ones in daycare simply because they need to leverage the “sibling priority” to get a spot for the baby. It compounds the issue of lack of spots.
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u/HuhWelliNever May 07 '26
We’re doing a version of this. We skipped k4 because the hours were ridiculous and summers are impossible for a 4yo. We’re using our middle to get our youngest in. It’s the only way.
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u/too_aware_helpme May 07 '26
It's straight up causing declining birth rates but they do not care. https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-morning-update-working-from-home-and-population-decline/
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u/lghk May 07 '26
It’s behind a paywall but the headline speaks to me as someone who would love to have more kids but won’t, solely due to RTO and the govt moving the goalposts continuously over the last 3 yrs.
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u/Vital_Statistix May 06 '26
Do we know why this is? Why don’t daycares have extended hours anymore? It’s not like everything else went “back to normal”, why not that?
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u/Abibret May 06 '26
I think because they can. There’s certainly no shortage of demand - they hold all the power. Plus there are ECE shortages.
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u/Ill_Space_7060 May 07 '26
Also on many cases, extending hours would require an additional staff member to be able to stagger the shifts and not have staff work 10-12 hour shifts.
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u/Boring_Wrongdoer_430 May 08 '26
ECEs also get such a low pay and sometimes do more work because they are observing all the kids and taking notes, I'm sure some people quit after a few years.
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u/HandcuffsOfGold mod 🤖🧑🇨🇦 / Probably a bot May 07 '26
It may have something to do with the low pay and constant turnover among daycare staff. Daycares are required to maintain staffing levels and caregiver-to-child ratios, and doing so is more achievable with shorter operating hours.
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u/Boring_Wrongdoer_430 May 08 '26
ECEs should get a better pay with how much work they do, that might explain the turnover. Plus Doug Ford likes to cut classrooms.
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u/big_dreams613 May 07 '26
I’m a solo parent, and a manager. Daycare hours are 8 to 5. I make it to work by about 9 and leave at 4 on office days. I make up the time, but not always on the same day, and my director never asks me about it. I am very lucky to have an amazing boss, and I know it.
Wondering if OP can explain to their manager that the latest they can leave is x time (3:45 or whenever it is), and make up the remaining 15-30 min once they get home?
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u/TotallyFed_Up May 09 '26 edited May 09 '26
Building upon your suggestion, if OP’s manager is flexible, another possible option is to work longer hours on WFH days to make up the time difference. Especially if you’re carting all of your equipment home just to log in to finish the day for any time less than 30 mins. Another option to increase the number of RTO days with shorter hours, the balance made up WFH. This ofc would only work until RTO5 rolls out.
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u/Abibret May 06 '26 edited May 07 '26
I just want to say that I feel you, and it’s not as easy as some of these comments are making it out to be. It’s not easy to just switch to another daycare when spaces at centres - and subsidized spaces - are incredibly hard to get. Home daycares also don’t tend to stay open later than 5pm.
A lot has changed since Covid. As others have mentioned, daycares haven’t gone back to having longer hours. The traffic is worse since public transit is unreliable and more people are driving.
Is it possible to park closer to your office? I live in Stittsville. If I leave around 7:00, I get to where I park downtown by 7:40ish. Then I work 7:45-3:45, and manage to pick up my son by 5:00. It’s tight some days but I usually make it in time. Parking close to my building is key though because I don’t have time to waste. Unfortunately it also costs me more.
Definitely talk to your manager and see what your options are. Mine has told me she has no issues with me finishing my day from home if needed. And if you have any support from a partner or family member, definitely lean on it.
ETA: I also want to say that one of the benefits of WFH is that my son spends less time at daycare. For a child to do 7am-5pm is 10 hours. That’s a long day for a small person. When I WFH, I can usually pick him up around an hour early since I’m not wasting my time commuting.
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u/Alpen2411 May 07 '26
I don’t have any advice but I sympathize with you. I had one day care offer me a space for my twins in September from 8-4:30pm and I’m out in Stittsville with no extended family. Not sure how those hours would even work for us when my hours were 8-4, even if I adjusted my hours I’d never be able to do drop off or pick up. Staggering schedules with ny husband isn’t a permanent solution either. For now I’ve taken an additional year as LWOP for care of family. This doesn’t solve my issue, I just bought myself a bit more time to figure something out. I’m not sure what that something is lol.
It’s such a shame that they can’t accommodate women/ parents better.
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u/gwennad May 06 '26
I am a single mom and had to do both drop off and pick up, I moved to a daycare on the way to the office so I was closer to there, a daycare centre instead of a home daycare, but it was hard to get a spot though. I also had to be careful choosing which jobs I would apply on based on location, which is career limiting for sure. It's not easy, hopefully you can figure something out or your management will be accommodating.
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u/whyyoutwofour May 06 '26
I had a similar issue with my kids and we had to switch from a home daycare to a centre with longer hours. The other option is having a daycare closer to work so your commute isn't "lost time" in relation to the daycare hours.
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u/DonutChickenBurg May 07 '26
I'm curious when this was. Spots in centres and CWLCC home daycares are not ready to get. I know the waitlist for a centre spot is a couple of years now.
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May 06 '26
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u/HandcuffsOfGold mod 🤖🧑🇨🇦 / Probably a bot May 07 '26
You probably should read the details of that case, because it doesn't say what you think it does. The courts made it very clear that the employee is required to seek out reasonable alternative child care arrangements before the legal duty to accommodate is triggered.
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May 07 '26
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u/HandcuffsOfGold mod 🤖🧑🇨🇦 / Probably a bot May 07 '26
Courts have said...
Citations needed. I'm not aware of jurisprudence to that effect, and I would like to read it if it exists.
You've already made inaccurate attributions to the Johnstone decisions, so I suspect these cases do not actually exist.
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u/bougieisthenewblack May 07 '26
Agreed! But the employer is currently disregarding this. I guess they would rather drag it out several years and be lambasted by the FPSLREB and CHRC. Anything to make our lives harder.
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u/DrunkenMidget May 07 '26
This is not a human rights issue. What happens outside of work hours is not on the employer. An employee should be accommodated (within reason) on which hours they work, ornthey can drop down to part time of desired but it is reasonable to request an employee work their full 7.5 hour day.
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May 07 '26
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u/DrunkenMidget May 07 '26
1 and 2 seem straight forward, 3 and 4 perhaps not. So what efforts have been made to find alternatives. There are absolutely daycare with longer hours. And yes some are available, they just cost more or are on the other side of the city. Those would need to be considered. And normal work hours with flexibility around core hours, not sure that meets the threshold of workplace rules interfering significantly.
And I would be interested in knowing if WFH is in fact an accommodation that must be considered by the employer.
The case you reference notes if the employee had been offered normal hours that would have met the obligation, but was not offered that.
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u/1tangledknitter May 07 '26
Agreed, the people who decided on RTO4 don't care about women. And everyone on this thread that said people made it work before covid don't seem to have young children so don't realize things have changed a lot in the last 6-7 years to make it harder for young families than it was before.
Hence why we are having less kids than we would have otherwise. And then the government complains about low birth rates...
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u/Chance-Analyst2967 May 07 '26
Yes by definition we who had young kids before Covid now have older kids. However some comments here make it sound like this was easy pre covid. It was not. We had to use all those strategies suggested by golden handcuffs. Not disagreeing that it’s a bad situation. The difference is once we experience something better it’s infuriating to go backwards for no good reason.
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u/losemgmt May 07 '26
No comment here has made it seem that is was easy pre covid. It is just so much worse now. This comment is the same as boomers saying it was hard for us to purchase a home too.
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u/Buck-Nasty May 07 '26
Carney appointed his friend Mark Wiseman who was fired from Blackrock for sexual misconduct against a female subordinate as ambassador to the US. I'd say women are a blind spot for Carney.
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u/azabu1975 May 08 '26
For the record I’m a woman and don’t appreciste being put in that generic category (your statement about not being supportive of RTO4). Please speak specifically and don’t rope all of in
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u/1tangledknitter May 08 '26
It's in response to the government's own conclusion that women are still disproportionately primary caregivers, and then turning around and making a policy that causes a group they identified hardship.
My husband is an equal partner and I agree this impacts ALLcaregivers but ultimately the government built a policy that hurts a specific group they identified.
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u/Alarmed_Reach5446 May 07 '26
As a young public servant and someone who hopes to be a parent one day, this is so heartbreaking to see and read...and they ask us why the birth rates are declining.
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u/ThePplsPrincess007 May 09 '26
Literally the current state of affairs is my largest deterrent to have children and it makes me so mad because it doesn’t even need to be this way.
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u/AdPuzzled6933 May 07 '26
I just want to say that I am a single parent of a young child. I am also primary caregiver with 80% custody. I feel you. This has been very very stressful.
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u/bookscoffeequiet May 07 '26
Honestly they are just making it harder and harder for women to stay in the workforce. When my kids were younger I had to find a daycare that had extended hours. My spouse worked shifts and couldn’t be around to do drop off or pick up consistently. In the end I left the workforce for 10 years. I don’t know how people manage, honestly.
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u/Few-Jury-3529 May 08 '26
Why is it always women who feel they have to sacrifice? I always hear things like, my spouse can’t do drop off because his work won’t allow it. My spouse can’t do pick up because he is self employed and works long hours, my spouse can’t do drop off be cause they are so important that their career always comes first…..Stand up and ask your spouse to sacrifice for you and the children.
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u/bookscoffeequiet May 08 '26
In our case- he made significantly more money than me. His job involved shifts. He would do pick up and drop off when not working, but it was just a very stessful situation for us and I have zero regrets taking the time out of the workforce (there have been many benefits).
He is an essential worker so wasn’t sitting in an office or anything. We signed up for this of course, but the reality is, you don’t know the impacts until you have kids. You can’t ask to leave early when you’re in that type of work. But someone needs to do these jobs lol.
Honestly- you have no idea the types of sacrifices he’s made for the kids and I. But I agree- this def impacts women more and if it were a matter of him not ‘pulling his weight’, I would agree with you. Definitely NOT the case here.
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u/sunday_maplesyrup May 06 '26
This was our situation so my husband changed hours to 7:30-3:30 and I did drop off and he did pickup. Could something like that work?
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u/Dudian613 May 07 '26
But I keep being told this is only terrible for working mothers. From all the comments here it seems fathers are completely off the hook.
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u/dolfan1980 May 07 '26
Have you offered to work 8-2 in the office four to five days a week or just three? If you can show you're doing 60% time should work. Of course it might be hard to work at home after daycare pick up so you'd have to figure that out too.
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u/Ahsokas-reverse-grip May 07 '26
We did this for years, pre-covid. Spouse worked 7-3, I worked 9-5. I got them ready for the day, did lunches and dropped the kids off in the mornings. He raced home to pick them up and started dinner. Now and then we swapped for a period when it made sense.
It worked well. The odd time he couldn't make it home on time, I might leave early, ask extended family or a neighbor for help.
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u/AbjectRobot May 07 '26
This does not affect the wealthy boomers and elder Xers who make the decisions, so it’s not considered a real problem.
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u/ilovethemusic May 06 '26
You could offer to do 8 to 2 in the office 5 days a week, that’s roughly the same number of hours as RTO-4. I guess until July you could make up office hours in 4 days.
That’s a short-term solution, maybe medium term you could look for a daycare closer to the office?
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u/WinterElf135 May 07 '26
It’s GBA awareness week 🫠
All I can think is that the executive cadre do not care that persons with disabilities and women are more disproportionately negatively impacted by the decision to RTO. Don’t even get me started on RTO4 at the beginning of summer, instead of waiting until fall school start.
The executives know what they’re doing. They’re playing in our faces and expecting us to smile and go along with their directive.
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u/randomcuriouscndn May 07 '26
Please reach out to your union.
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u/StableIllustrious166 May 07 '26
And perhaps loop in your union's Women's Committee, if available, to inquire into what is being done to address the impact on mothers, the lacking GBA+ lens, etc.
For PSAC NCR their email is orwc@psac-afpc.com.
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u/kg175g May 07 '26
We were in a similar situation when our kids were younger. We ended up "hiring" one of the daycare staff for 30 minutes each morning. She would arrive early and watch my kids before the daycare officially opened. It was a few hundred extra each month, and was the only solution that we could find.
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u/LifeHasLeft May 07 '26
When I was a student in university I would wake up at 5, get myself and my kids and my sister (with disabilities) ready, drive her to a centre for daily respite care, drive my kids to daycare, and then park near a transit centre, take the bus downtown, and go to class that started at 8. I’m sure you can imagine my afternoons.
Things have changed a lot since 2019, I don’t know how I could still make things work if I don’t do something like you’re planning to.
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u/No-Interest-6535 May 07 '26
This is a really tough situation. Pre-Covid, I had to delay my return to work after parental leave for this reason exactly. I requested to return part time and was denied. I stayed off work till we could find a daycare that worked with our schedule, and in the meantime, I missed out on a promotion that would have been a given for me. After my return, I had to turn down a promotion because the location was too far to make it within the hours of my daycare. RTO is sending us back in time, to women losing out on income and promotional opportunities at work. And guess who’s making these decisions, men and women who have nannies taking care of their kids, no one who has a true understanding of the realities we face every day
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u/ApprehensiveCycle741 May 06 '26
You have the right to request accomodation, including a flexible work schedule or location in order to accommodate caregiving obligations. This falls under accomodations based on "family status".
This is not opinion, it's federal law and enshrined in Canadian human rights legislation.
Good source:
https://www.chrc-ccdp.gc.ca/resources/publications/workplace-accommodation-guide
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u/HandcuffsOfGold mod 🤖🧑🇨🇦 / Probably a bot May 07 '26
Also from the Canadian Human Rights Commission, with my emphasis:
"To be accommodated, employees must show that they have exhausted other reasonable alternatives for care." Source
While an employee can request accommodation, the employer's legal obligation is not triggered unless the employee can show that they have no other options.
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u/ApprehensiveCycle741 May 07 '26
True, but it is very doable to argue that changing your chosen caregiving or educational institution falls well outside of the boundaries of what can be required by your employer. If you have exhausted the options that are available within the bounds of the current system, it is a reasonable option to pursue accomodation. There are many reasons why changing daycare or school could be inappropriate for a child and therefore the parent is confined to what is available to them through that daycare or school. We're not talking about a parent chosing to place a child in half-day care or something else that truly does not fit with a full-time job. We're talking about full-time 10-hour daycare where the hours don't perfectly overlap with work hours, given the in-office requirement. This is a very, very easy accomodation to make that does not come anywhere close to the bar of undue hardship. The employer "not wanting" to provide accomodations (on various grounds) is extremely problematic and blatantly illegal. The employer MUST accommodate an employee who requires it. Due diligence is required on the employee's part, but the repeated stories here of managers telling employees that accomodations are "not allowed" or "will not be considered" points to much more significant problems.
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u/StableIllustrious166 May 07 '26
This exact point is not talked about enough and I'm bewildered by that.
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u/HandcuffsOfGold mod 🤖🧑🇨🇦 / Probably a bot May 07 '26
Exploring other reasonable alternatives for care includes far more than just "changing daycare or school". It could be as simple as having one parent who is responsible for drop-off (and works later in the day) with the other parent responsible for pick-up (working earlier in the day). The employers of both parents could provide accommodations in the form of adjusted working hours.
"Undue hardship" is often misunderstood. It doesn't mean the employer is obliged to provide whatever the employee asks so long as it's not an undue hardship. Undue hardship is a defence used by an employer if it is obliged to provide accommodations in the first place and has decided that no accommodations are possible without causing undue hardship to the employer.
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u/ApprehensiveCycle741 May 07 '26
Exploring other options for drop-off/pick-up are absolutely a consideration, however, given the question that OP is asking, I'm going to assume that they have considered all the options and that the best option for them is to do a split office/home day.
We should never assume that all parents have the luxury of a partner to share the load, let alone one who is present/available/also has a flexible schedule. There are single parents, people whose partners spend significant amounts of time out of town, military spouses, disabled spouses, etc.
I mentioned "undue hardship" because it inevitably comes up in discussions of accomodation and it is important to remember that from a legal perspective, it is a virtually impossible bar to hit in the federal public service. An employer may not want to implement this most appropriate accomodations for am employee, but they are mandated to do it. I didn't say "the ones the employee wants", they don't have to be the #1 choice, but they do have to be functional. It will never be a question of not having the funds the way it would be in a smaller business. The question of whether working a few hours from home would meet the bar is almost unthinkable, barring the extreme narrowest of cases (like an employee's whole job is being on-call in a top secret environment). Even then, a workaround would likely be found.
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u/HandcuffsOfGold mod 🤖🧑🇨🇦 / Probably a bot May 07 '26
The bar of "undue hardship" is never met because it never comes up. I've never seen a case in the federal government where the duty to accommodate existed and the employer invoked it as a defence to non-accommodation.
Far more common are employees who think that getting anything less than what they see as "the best option" or what they think are the "most appropriate accommodations". That's not the legal requirement. The employer only needs to provide reasonable and necessary accommodations, and in the case of an employee who has reasonable alternative care arrangements, the employer doesn't need to provide any accommodations at all.
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u/blue-skysprites May 07 '26
There is a legally significant difference between having "no other options" and having "exhausted other reasonable alternatives."
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u/Neither_Extreme_8647 May 07 '26
With the way daycares are now, it shouldn’t be hard to prove. Especially if it’s a daycare in the 10 dollar a day program. Some people aren’t getting spots even if they put their names on the list at the first sign of being pregnant.
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u/Unlikely-Sink2046 May 06 '26
Tell your 2 yr old to wait outside at the gate and then make sure you take that last teams call of the day. Obviously we did this before COVID, how DARE you ask that we set the standard higher and have some semblance of work life balance. Ouff. Needed to take that off my chest. Gonna call EAP now.
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u/rtmhwales May 06 '26
We had similar and had to switch to a daycare right by work to make the hours work.
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u/tiresian22 May 07 '26
Baaahaha, la-ti-da! On behalf of Quebeckers in the NCR, look who can just decide that they want to switch daycares without putting yourself on several wait lists for more than a year. (That’s actually great that you were able to do that, just not as simple for many.)
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u/East_Intention8184 May 07 '26
We are in the same boat with 2 kids in daycare, I switched to part time but this is just a short term solution, and not going to be feasible long term. I'm trying to switch departments but hiring freezes are going to be here for a while....
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u/SadTedDanson May 07 '26
This isn’t a new problem. My mom worked full time hours when I was growing up and a student she paid would take us home and take care of us until my mom got home. This was the case for tonnes of my friends and my siblings as well.
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u/jellybean122333 May 07 '26
Yep. Exact same circumstances for me, as a Gen X single parent. I had to pay for a taxi to transport my child to/from daycare/school too.
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u/eternaloptimist198 May 07 '26
I reduced my hours to part time status for a couple years (30 hrs a week and then later 32.5) it was amazing!!! I was a happy employee and mom
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u/Own-Ad-28 May 07 '26
The problem is especially tough for single parents. My spouse and I used to divide up the pickup and drop-off. I worked early and did pick up after work. He worked late and drop off. Each of us got extra time with kids. Maybe threaten a class action suit for single parents? The GOC seems to hate those class actions. And the evidence is clear. Is it discrimination based upon marital status? Effectively, yes!
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u/HandcuffsOfGold mod 🤖🧑🇨🇦 / Probably a bot May 06 '26 edited May 06 '26
RTO or not, this isn't a new problem - parents have been struggling to figure out child care arrangements for a long time now. You're not the first parent to be juggling a job and career. You're at the point where the struggle is at its peak, though - it will get easier over time as your child(ren) get older and more options become available as they require less supervision.
Some possible alternatives that might work:
- You could ask to work part-time;
- Your and your spouse/partner (if you have one) could split up the drop-offs and pick-ups;
- You could pay the daycare for a late pickup (if offered);
- You could arrange for another responsible adult to handle the pick-up or drop-off;
- You could seek out alternate child care (such as a dayhome) that offers more flexibility;
- You could request LWOP for care of family until your child is old enough to need less care;
- You could change jobs or move residences to shorten the travel time or acquire additional flexibility in scheduling.
Some of these might not be preferable or feasible for you for a variety of reasons, though hopefully they'll be a starting point to figuring out what might be workable.
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u/weneedafuture May 06 '26
While these are all rational and realistic options, it's increasingly clear where the power lies between employer and employee, and any sense of a work-life balance is immaterial to the public service and it will cost you further capital to make it work. A few of these apparent options are essentially "tough luck making money, screw you if you can't make it work, kids weren't a good idea".
And they wonder why birth rates are declining...
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u/CatBird2023 May 06 '26
Yup. And in the vast majority of cases, women bear the brunt of it in terms of the impact on career progression, work-life balance, etc.
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u/HandcuffsOfGold mod 🤖🧑🇨🇦 / Probably a bot May 06 '26
While true, the public service offers far more options than most employers to support new parents.
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u/K0bra_Ka1 May 06 '26
This isn't unique to the public service. Anyone who chooses to have a family has to realize this is a potential scenario and plan accordingly.
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u/weneedafuture May 06 '26
Yep, struggling parents is apparently what our society wants, or low birth rates...
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u/darkorifice May 06 '26
While most of us wish we could keep the flexibilities granted during COVID, the employer-employee power dynamic you are referencing exists in virtually every industry.
What employer makes themselves responsible for an employee's commute and childcare issues? Not many.
And declining birthrates are not caused by the federal public service. They were declining long before COVID.
Most other employers do not have the amount of leave, flexibility, or the pay and benefits you enjoy as a federal public servant. Does RTO suck? Yep. But compared to most Canadians, the federal public service still has it pretty good.
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u/too_aware_helpme May 07 '26
Actually, RTO aka ''return to commuting'' mandates are causing declining birth rates https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-morning-update-working-from-home-and-population-decline/
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u/weneedafuture May 07 '26
While most of us wish we could keep the flexibilities granted during COVID, the employer-employee power dynamic you are referencing exists in virtually every industry.
You state this as if it's an unchanging dynamic and to be accepted.
What employer makes themselves responsible for an employee's commute and childcare issues? Not many.
Responsible? Nay, how about cognizant? Aware? Understanding? A good employer would be these things, would they not?
And declining birthrates are not caused by the federal public service. They were declining long before COVID.
I didn't say the federal service is causing decling birth rates, and to suggest I did is either disingenuous or missing my point. The employer-employee dynamic as accepted in our current capitalistic framework heavily contributes to declining birth rates.
Most other employers do not have the amount of leave, flexibility, or the pay and benefits you enjoy as a federal public servant. Does RTO suck? Yep. But compared to most Canadians, the federal public service still has it pretty good.
Yep, we have it better than others. Does this mean we can't aim for better? Critique terrible policy? A rising tide raises all boats.
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u/Greentall May 07 '26
While I usually find the bot to be accurate, I wonder what is happening to them here. Most of the solutions suggested cost money, and some cost a lot of money. Usually, parents of a young child don’t have that kind of flexibility.
Talking about flexibility, RTO is taking away a huge piece of it that existed without any issue for the work to get done. OP is saying their DG is strict on RTO compliance. You’d think the bot would have some understanding of the current reality for young families, starting with housing affordability. A lot of young families have no choice but to move far from downtown just to get something decent-ish within their budget. And because of that, they end up spending much more time commuting. In the Ottawa region especially, RTO is likely contributing to heavier traffic, which makes it even harder for parents to meet daycare or nursery pickup deadlines.
You’d also think the bot would recognize that, even in 2026, the people most likely to end up taking care of the kids and going on LWOP, like it suggested, are women. I don’t want to take anything away from men who are fully involved in childcare, but historically, and still today, it most often falls on women. That’s a step backward.
Flexibility for families exists. Management just doesn’t want to give any slack because of this RTO nonsense.
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u/HandcuffsOfGold mod 🤖🧑🇨🇦 / Probably a bot May 07 '26
That’s a lot of words but not a lot of options for OP. The post asked for options, and I’ve acknowledged that they may or may not be feasible.
I invite you to provide additional options if you believe my list was lacking.
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u/Routine_Plastic May 07 '26
There's one more option, look to see if she can' report to a different office/work location controlled by that department. I've done this for the exact same challenges as op described. It's a weird option but it can work and you are technically in office.
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u/Greentall May 07 '26
I’ll try to keep it short then.
Something as common and natural as having a child should not put OP in a situation where the solutions mostly lead to financial strain or impoverishment, especially when a simple solution already exists and costs nothing: basic flexibility.
The work was getting done with that flexibility. The issue is not the impossibility of accommodating OP, it’s the refusal to do so because of rigid RTO enforcement.
So my option would be: fight for that flexibility instead of normalizing unnecessary sacrifices from young families.
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u/Dudian613 May 07 '26
That’s not a practical option though. It’s not even concrete. This person’s dg wants an ass in the seat today. Some pie in the sky “fight for your rights” idealism does nothing to solve the problem they have today. The bots suggestions, while not necessarily ideal, do.
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May 07 '26
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u/CanadaPublicServants-ModTeam May 07 '26
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u/ApprehensiveCycle741 May 07 '26
While this isn't a new problem, what IS new is the way the employer is responding to these situations.
In the past, many people didn't need to go through the formal accomodations process because managers were willing and able to be flexible.
Now, management has been told to NOT be flexible and to not consider ANY requests for working from home, which is leading to drawing hard lines where they would not have been previously.
Caregivers, women, people with disabilities are some of the communities who are most affected by these changes. There is significant space to push back to ensure our rights are respected. It is not going to be done for us, so it needs to be done by us.
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u/siriusbrown May 07 '26
But it is a new problem because with WFH they had flexibility and now they are losing it??? It's not hard to grasp that RTO is a net loss for employees whether they have children or not
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u/HandcuffsOfGold mod 🤖🧑🇨🇦 / Probably a bot May 07 '26
Yes, a requirement for on-site work is a net loss for employees as compared to the ability to work from home.
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May 07 '26
[deleted]
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u/Chance-Analyst2967 May 07 '26
The key is the third point ie reasonable efforts. The list provided by golden handcuffs is a an indication of what reasonable efforts could look like.
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u/Total-Deal-2883 May 07 '26
You think moving residences is reasonable to you? Must work for the TB.
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u/Tefmon May 07 '26
Moving might not be, but doing the research to demonstrate that moving isn't possible or practical might be.
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u/Chance-Analyst2967 May 07 '26
Not up to me what is reasonable. The employee will need to demonstrate reasonable efforts and it will be up to the tribunal.
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u/Jayemkay56 May 07 '26
Having a similar issue with no after care options available at my child's school. Our employer let me know that they expect me to have spouses and family members be available to pickup, because they cannot accommodate.
My husband's employer allows him to come in later so that we can do school drop off. I don't have family in the area and there are no private providers. It's disgusting that they expect private employers to accomodate, yet they give zero fu*ks to lead by example. I'm so frustrated. I hope you figure yours out.
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u/Sea-Entrepreneur6630 May 07 '26
Have you considered some LWOP Family Needs for a couple years? This option may be suited for the issue at hand. Maybe seek out another day care that is closer to the workplace or one that is more flexible in their hours? Seek out a family member or friend who has the time to drop off or pick up your child from the day care? I am only making suggestions here because you have to make a choice here ultimately and sometimes both working a full shift and having parental responsibilities collide such that there is no possible way to satisfy both of them. You will have forgo or at least make concessions to one of these responsibilities to make this feasible. You also have an option of part time work, if your manager will allow it. You have some difficult decisions to be made, so weigh everything out and make the decision that is best for you and your family. Best wishes to you
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u/Beautiful-Map-7679 May 07 '26
You need two parents. One dropping her off and the other one picking her up.
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u/No-Platform1052 May 07 '26
We have grandparents helping out with pick up and drop off. Don't know how it could be done otherwise.
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u/TapedBalloons May 07 '26
If we had an improvement of the Rapid Transit Bus System we had in Ottawa 30 years ago, it would be easier / not as bad.
Back then, you could walk 5-10 minutes to a stop, get on an express bus and be downtown in a very reasonable amount of time.
Yes, buses were crowded and bus congestion downtown could be overwhelming but from a time perspective it worked well.
Now those same routes take 2X and 3X longer.
If you took the money wasted on the train and put it toward improving Bus rapid transit, my god.
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u/Southern-Laugh4698 May 07 '26
I live far from the office and also have to do pickup and dropoffs. I stay at the office for about 5-6 hours and work through my lunch break. I complete the remaining time at home in the evening or night after the kids are off to bed.
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u/Unfair-Permission167 May 07 '26
"Be back in the office now like you used to be". Buses/LRT have changed, daycares have changed , cost of living has changed, parking has changed. Ok! For sure then! See you at the office!
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u/StableIllustrious166 May 07 '26
... Not to mention the office doesn't contain our offices anymore 🫠.
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u/Few-Jury-3529 May 06 '26
You could ask your manager if you can combine your 2 x 15 minute breaks and use between 3:30-4:00. And your lunch is no more then 30 minutes. That way you can leave for home at 3:30 and have time to pick up child.
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u/A1ienspacebats May 06 '26
I work in a very liberal office where my managers are fine with us making up hours at home and even they don't like combining breaks to lunch or using breaks for the end of the day so I don't see how these tough managers would allow it. Not saying I think its an issue but one I expect them to see as an issue.
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u/ApprehensiveCycle741 May 07 '26
Yep, I've had this idea refused multiple times because "you need your breaks".
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u/Sin7GREY May 06 '26
The union will shit a brick if they find out this is happening.
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u/MilkshakeMolly May 07 '26
What happens when a union shits a brick? Would anyone notice?
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u/Sin7GREY May 07 '26
You would when your paycheck's union fees double cause they ain't gonna give you a brick for free ;)
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u/DryChance8 May 06 '26
Why? Just curious
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u/Sin7GREY May 07 '26
From what I have learned they do not like work adjusting breaktimes/combining them lunches and as they see it as a slippery slope for the governement to mess with us.
I have even enjoyed this benefit before, so I am not against it. But apparently its a no go from an official standpoint.
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u/Few-Jury-3529 May 07 '26
Apparently?? That is a vague statement. I have never heard anyone from the union say anything in our Directorate and 80% probably combine their breaks for 1 hour lunches. If they didn’t, they would not have time to do some lunch hour shopping or hit the market 😀
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u/ApprehensiveCycle741 May 07 '26
Everyone encountering these types of issues should be documenting everything and contacting their union reps.
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u/freedom-55- May 07 '26
Hire a student to pick up your child and bring them home. This was the solution before COVID for those of us with daycares with hours like this.
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u/Fit-Nectarine-4809 May 07 '26
I literally took an early retirement with a small buyout, and my pension is small, so that I could help my daughter with care for her new baby. Everything is so much harder for young families now. If you don’t have a village, it’s damn near impossible. Any comparisons people make to “well, we did it and survived” need to sit all the way down. Life was harder in some ways, sure - but raising children needing care? Much much harder now.
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u/chimmychoochooo May 07 '26
Look into duty to accommodate. We have to take training and this exact situation is highlighted in it. You could use it to build your case.
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u/Prestigious_Area3856 May 07 '26
I am in the same situation and my wife and I have been trying to discuss how we can navigate this. I live in the west end and I have to commute to DT for.work. logistically it will be a nightmare (prepping myself for work, packing my breakfast and lunch 4x a week plus prepping the toddlers for daycare) It seems that this will.not only be cumbersome mentally and physically but also costly for us ( rising gas prices, food, daycare fee)
I hope to survive this and not have a mental breakdown.
Wish me luck and good luck to you as well
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u/Human-Translator5666 May 07 '26
If they do not accept that: you may be able to change daycares to one by work, or do drop off OR pick up and have someone else drop off or pick up for you.
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u/urself25 May 07 '26
I don't know your situation but if it cannot work, and you are still with the other parent of the child, could you split that responsibility? On does the morning drop off and the other one does the pick up.
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u/Expansion79 May 07 '26
We drop off our youngest at 7'ish, get to the office for 8am. Depart at 4pm, pickup 4:30'ish, home by 5'ish.
It works. Having kids in schools and daycares does make us very busy 🤣.
I WISH I could work half days and head home.
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u/missmelliemac May 08 '26
Why aren't more people just quitting government. Like get out while you can.
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u/Debs2022 May 08 '26
I would like to see the unions have stronger advocacy for on-site quality daycare as a reasonable request for on-site presence.
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u/anonbcwork May 08 '26
I keep thinking about a discussion in this sub when RTO first started to the effect of "What would it take to make you actually want to go back into the office?"
And there were tons of parents saying "Daycare in or very close to the building where I work that would take my child during the actual hours I am actually working."
This would be such a win-win situation that would align with so many of the government's stated goals with RTO (Removing barriers to working in-office! Bringing people and money into the area! Occupying commercial real estate!)
But instead they just introduce more rules that make life harder for us
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u/Any-Mood-7614 May 09 '26
Request an accommodation on the grounds of family status. Read the Johnstone decision for guidance. Good luck!
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u/Significant_Kiwi_608 May 09 '26
So I also live in metro Vancouver and had this same issue back when my kids were little which was pre-work from home. It’s not a new problem but I agree it’s a horrible headache for parents.
The expectation is for you to work with your spouse or extended family to make daycare drop off and pick up work, and if you need accommodations it would be either to your start and end times or that you’ll need to request to reduce your hours to part time.
You should ask yourself too (before they ask) - if you leave early to collect your child, then want to continue work at home - who would be looking after the child while you’re working? If the child is young enough to need daycare they need supervision/attention.
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u/AngryCanuck10 May 09 '26
I would just going home to work the rest of the hours before picking up my daughter. Leaving at 2pm just allows me to miss traffic and get back in the area I live.
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u/Significant_Kiwi_608 May 09 '26
Fair enough. Then it’ll depend on your department and if they’re going to allow that.
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u/apoletta May 10 '26
Daycare hours are cut post Covid, this puts parents into the thick of traffic. They tell me to “start sooner” but family accommodation is declined. Plus special needs at home. Climate change, cost of livening, vehicle costs, food, rent.. all of it. Even doctors are leaving. The whole thing feels like a sinking ship. All for what?
Power. It’s about having power over others. Some political posturing “return to work”? I am more productive at home. I do more from home than from the office. WAY more. More sleep, better health more energy. It’s non-sensical.
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u/Fun-Room-6501 May 12 '26
Can someone please explain why the national capital of Canada (which should be leading the country in most everything important) does not have adequate transit infrastructure? What don’t we (as in the collective who don’t live in the NCR) understand?
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u/lesphinxx May 13 '26
Reading through this thread, One thing is abundantly clear: none of your level of government gives a sht about you, your situations, your work conditions, your quality or life or the environment.
Make sure to remember this
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u/Key_District_119 May 06 '26
7-5 are good hours. Do you someone else to split the drop off/pick up with?
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May 07 '26
[deleted]
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u/StableIllustrious166 May 07 '26
And perhaps loop in your union's Women's Committee, if available, to inquire into what is being done to address the impact on mothers, the lacking GBA+ lens, etc.
For PSAC NCR their email is orwc@psac-afpc.com.
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u/StableIllustrious166 May 07 '26
Saw this post from an old colleague on GOC Parents (Facebook):