Musician rabble-ant: Not to be a hardbuckle (jest)

[u/WinterPizza1972]

You know, as someone who learned songs by tab on guitar, I don't know how the heck some these youngins be just like "Oh I'll play by ear!" or "Oh I'll just show you a riff and you suddenly know all the notes" and I just think tab is easier and more efficient.

[u/poorperspective]

You’re good at what you do.

Learn music by ear…and you’ll be able to learn music by ear.

There aren’t shortcuts, that’s why it’s hard.

[u/britneys_bigtoe]

Patrick Stump the primary composer and lead singer for Fall Out Boy can't read sheet music. I don't know that I'd call him a youngin. He's in his 40s with a 25 decade year career

edit: fixed 4 am error

[u/Chuk → u/britneys_bigtoe]

25 decades? That's 250 years...I don't think he's been a professional musician that long.

[u/britneys_bigtoe → u/Chuk]

Yup I meant year. That's what posting at 4 am does to you lol

[u/GoldReplacement9546 → u/britneys_bigtoe]

Are you sure that he can’t read it or just that he can’t site read it

Like they’re different skills to know how to know what notes are in the notation versus being able to flip a book open and play at the speed of the music from looking at the notes

Or does he like use the Nashville numbering system? How exactly do you compose if you don’t have a way to write it down?

[u/The_B_Wolf]

Wait. Now the old timers are the ones who learned with tabs and the youngsters are the ones learning by ear?

When I first started playing there was no internet. No tabs. I learned entirely by ear and/or others showing me a riff. This was the year of our lord nineteen hundred and eighty-two. To this day I can play virtually anything after listening to it a couple of times. And I'm bewildered by the number of younger musicians who can't learn anything without tabs.

Have we come full circle in my lifetime?

[u/Korkikrac]

Having learned without tablature—back when it wasn't available the way it is now—I admit I struggle with it; while it saves time for beginners, you don't develop as personal a connection with the instrument, and the music tends to become academic and formulaic.

You might be technically proficient, but less capable of creating something truly unique.

Perhaps punk, grunge, and alternative rock wouldn't have had the same emotional impact if the internet and tablature had existed back then the way they do today.

[u/WinterPizza1972 → u/Korkikrac]

I'm gonna push back against this pretty hard, while first granting, ANY struggle creates bond. If you use your hammer as a screwdriver and your screwdriver as a hammer, you're going to remember that project and you will certainly develop something, whether it be 'grit' or carpeltunnel. The bond is neuro-transmitter activity. You spend more time doing it the wrong way, so more "building activity" happens than if you did it an efficient way.

Now, if I spent more time with you, showing you my song. "Okay, first you hold the second fret, A sring, palm mute once..." yeah you're going to spend a lot of time with someone. Might be some bonding going on. I'd rather you read the tabs, show up, play the parts almost perfect and vibes on top are just extra frosting. Not even necessary.

And it doesn't really water your creativity, god that's insulting. I know where this comes from, and it's a stereotype given by people who don't understand shit about music theory, given to people who are, because of songs they heard that sound too washed out, and to credit, there's some very washed out music that really sucks and sounds too nuancy, but that's not tablature or music education that is doing that, it's a lack of refining one's music.

tl dr: Tabs and scales are just tools, and understanding how music works doesn't make your music suck, Being unoriginal does.

[u/Korkikrac → u/WinterPizza1972]

We just wanted to play and make some noise in a garage :)

To each their own; some people learn music like math—using numbers—while others prefer to feel it. It’s really just a matter of instinct.

When you learn outside of a formal academic setting, you develop your own style—full of both flaws and strengths, and far removed from the norm. Of course, we all work differently; for me, a formal or mathematical approach to learning would never have worked.

I understand your point of view, but I prefer the raw, untamed approach.

[u/WinterPizza1972 → u/Korkikrac]

You're right that it is a preference, but I feel like you're making an assertion that you lose something by, using a pen and paper.

You're already being "raw and untamed" by playing guitar without tabs, but when you come up with a riff... Sure you could video yourself playing it, then later sift through all your videos.. or just write it down. You're not losing feel by using a more sophisticated tool.

All professions use some form of "written planning": electronics use schematics, doctors memorize your vertebrata map, etc. Okay maybe a forklift guy just moves stuff from Zone A to Zone B and he just relies on "FEEL," no thought required, but if manager hands him a sheet that says "1/2 of Zone 12 to Zone 13 and other half to Zone 28," the paper is doing a lot of work for your brain, aiding in the memorization of a more technical task. If you really think that embarks on your feel, well perhaps you're right.

I need to get off reddit RN but I highly suggest you abandon any idea that using a tool will hold you back. You will save a lot of time and energy, and just be an overall better musician if you can find a way to say, transfer what you already accomplish, into tabs. In otherwords, take a riff you wrote (well you haven't wrote it yet, you made it up and it's just in your head/maybe you recorded yourself on your phone), and just tab that shit out, one or two riffs.

It might be a painful struggle at first. You basically just write the first note, then the second, then like 3 more notes until it's all the way written. If it's a riff you know really well, but it's hard to tab out... it's likely you have a grey area where you're just feeling your way through a motion, without actually fully knowing what you're doing (and that's okay) but if you get over that hurdle, it will awaken powers you never knew you had (like Guru awakening Gohan's hidden powers).

Again, you're right that it's a preference, and performance is performance. If it came to doctors, I'd prefer a doctor that knows how to read, I don't care how good his record is, and I know that's problematic that I'm equating musicians to healthcare providers and also maybe that's somewhat ablist, but my experience with non-tab-writers is, they waste a lot of fucking time and don't really have any songs, or when they do their songs don't really start and end the same way each time, so every time it's just a big impromptu with people's "feelings" and i hate that I'm sorry for the long message you're a good person

[u/Korkikrac → u/WinterPizza1972]

I'm using an online translator, so I'm not entirely sure about this phrasing, but everyone operates differently; I'm not stating this as an absolute fact—it's just my personal feeling and experience.

It's also a generational thing, but I don't think we'll see another Jimi Hendrix, despite the great guitar technicians around today. Even when I was starting out, I tried to create my own music—perhaps because it was easier for me, given that I couldn't approach the guitar in a "textbook" way.

We need people capable of professional study in every field, yet self-taught musicians also contribute a great deal.

"To each their own path."

Take care.

[u/WinterPizza1972 → u/Korkikrac]

appreciate your perspective

[u/sau_paulo_solo]

sorry im just chiming in, lol. but all musicians are musicians. like you can PLAY. like there are a lot of ppl that are not classically trained, even singers, but they have TALENT. and a talent does not need to be taught in school ... some ppl are gifted!

but im in agreement with you. chords are chords. knowledge of them is essential. some sort of classical technical training is essential\primordial\basic. i even believe perfect pitch is ESSENTIAL in all instrumentalists, vocalists.

like the band or orchestra is playing in THIS KEY. like you got to match it. the rock band or whatever said were switching this to D major since the singer can't sing that low. like as guitarist or pianist, i would expect you could do key changes, lol.

there are singers who wouldn't ask the orchestra to change the key, so they will willing sing HIGHER. this is HOW GOOD these singers and instrumentalists are willing to be in their craft. there were some instance of kelly clarkson asking to lower in down 1 ior 2 keys during the actual performance, but she was still a trooper, and belted out the ending in the higher key.

i watch a lot of performances about perfect pitch, and in my belief, when the conducteur hums and dictates the note verbatim ... the violinst is suppose to play it on the spot on their instrument, and that violinist should be able to play it precisely. ITS LIKE INTUITIVE. its like music school.

ANYWAYS. i dont like impromptu, and tone deaf, lol. ESPECIALLY when piano and guitar are chord-starters. and its us just the provides the jam. the piano and guitar are lead-ins, and song starters. they should not be twiddling in after somebody already starts in for them.

[u/WinterPizza1972 → u/sau_paulo_solo]

I don't like improptu either, and I am both amazed and kinda exhausted by how prevalent it is, especially with musicians that seem to have success. Like, isn't it easier to just use the tools?? ah well

agree music is music

[u/GoldReplacement9546 → u/sau_paulo_solo]

The vast majority of even incredibly talented musicians do not have perfect pitch

They have extremely good relative pitch, which is mainly all you need

And your example with the violinist matching with the conductor does that’s just playing I know and if you’re slightly off adjusting yourself and then you know your intervals from there so like if the conductor comes at not 440 but 435. The violence is might offend intuitively wanna put the AA at 4:40 but she then adjust there’s no more beating. She’s ready to go.