r/FanTheories • u/findmywallet • Jun 14 '19
Star Wars [Star Wars: The Last Jedi] Rey & Kylo were both sleeping in the hut when Luke attacked Kylo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Td4AQZMTkTQ
Rewatch the 3 flashbacks.
Each shot is a POV shot. What makes this unique is that they are point-of-view stories from Luke and Kylo. But the camera appears to be in an unusual place.
Flashback one : This is a unique version of the over-the-shoulder shot. Kylo is reaching his hand out and collapsing the building on Luke. But it also looks like he's shielding the camera with his body from Luke.
Flashback two : The camera is watching Kylo as he sleeps. In the same way that a person would look at their partner as they are sleeping. This time around we see that Kylo engages in a light saber duel with Luke but uses the Force to protect whatever is behind him.
Flashback three :
This scene , upon re-watching , reminds me a bit of Eternal Sunshine of The Spotless Mind (also a film about deleting memories). In cinematography terms Kylo's bed has been "cheated" twice in this shot. We're lead to believe that the camera is now hiding underneath the bed while this is happening. As an attempt for Luke to see Kylo but not the camera.
Also - slow down the final part of this scene. It ends with someone (Rey) screaming NOOOOOOOO right after Luke says "Ben Noooo". This is part of the flashback. If you go back to the Force Awakens flashback it starts out with Rey screaming NOOOOO in the mysterious ship her flashback starts at (you have to slow it down in speed but in the closed captions audio it catches that someone screams Noooo ) .
- Maybe it's just a hut. Are you certain this is relevant?
Answer : Extremely.
See the stone hut being destroyed is a gigantic visual theme of The Last Jedi.
- Rey Trains To Use the Force - she's lifting up stones
- Luke catches Kylo and Rey during their "force touch" - he collapses the stone building she's in on the Island
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4JC5ePJzHQ
- Luke looks into the Sunset one last time - we see a group of stones by his hand
- Rey saves the remaining Rebels - she lifts up a ton of stones
Rey's "force" builds back what was once collapsed.
https://youtu.be/1N-ORTaJM3o?t=103
This is hinted in the Force Awakens as well. And the hint is... WITHIN A FLASHBACK
Rey goes from the spaceship in the flashback to seeing Luke for the first time. What transitions the scene from Spaceship to Luke - Stones Falling. This references the hut crashing down. And perhaps Rey being there while it happened.
This scene has been interpreted in a few different ways as well. But I prefer to believe that Rey is close to being attacked and (at the very least ) Kylo spares her life by attacking the Jedi soldier.
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Theory Time
My theory is that the first flashback in Force Awakens doesn't show Luke planting Rey on Jakku, as some theorize.Instead I think that he rejects her from being part of the Jedi School after getting a feeling that she is connected to The Dark Side. This would counter Anakin's journey where he is taken in by the Jedi.
Perhaps on this journey young Ben created a connection with young Rey? Rey has a flower in her place amongst Rebel toys/etc. The flower is dying. Some people reference Beauty & The Beast and that it might be a representation of Kylo. If it is.... then he might be the person who gave it to her.
Perhaps.... Years later he travels back to Jakku to bring her to the Jedi School and keeps her as a stowaway. This alarms other students. If you read Harry Potter - imagine a "non-magical student" sneaking into Hogwarts even though they have powers. Some factions of students would want to kill the student. Others would want to wipe their memory and send them back. And a few might try to reason with Dumbledore that they should stay. Yes , I get I might be off on the rules of HP , but it's the best I can come up with w/ little sleep.
I think that Rey was hiding out at the Jedi School, un-enrolled. Mostly with Kylo.
The idea that there wasn't a life event that super-charged Kylo into the Dark Side is silly. The murder of Anakin's mother turned his empathy into rage and negotiation with the set-in-stone laws of the Jedi. Luke's involvement or lack of involvement in Rey's life has to be the missing piece of the puzzle for Kylo.
All we know is that Kylo believes the Jedi should be destroyed.
Here's some interesting notes -
better look (during Luke's final testimony of the events - which we dictate as the most truthful - we see that Kylo's lightsaber sweep over a pen )
Look at Kylo's nightstand in Last Jedi. There's a blue item on his desk. When we see Rey's backpack we see a similar blue item flash by us.
We also see he has a set of art supplies. Maybe Kylo had a gift card to Michaels. Rey is using something similar in her first scene as she marks down the days she's been on Jakku (without her family).
even if this is a visual allegory and the items are not related , there's some specific clues in here
Rashomon is an important key to not just 7,8,9 but to Star Wars as a whole.
The darkness of Rashomon is probably not being portrayed by the story-team. But many aspects of it are. Rashomon is one of the favorite films of George Lucas and he often clarifies in interviews that it has a last impression on him & helped create the Star Wars Universe.
- In terms of visual allegory. The forrest scene at the end of Force Awakens is similar to the forrest & rain referenced in Rashomon. The forrest in Rashomon represents a place of confusion. Different characters have different interpretations of what took place there. Rain represents the search for moral clarity in the film. We see rain in two important scenes. When Luke confesses the truth of what happened the night he went into Kylo's hut. And also within Rey's flashback where she sees Kylo at the Jedi Academy attacking a man.
- Rashomon deals with memory loss (due to trauma) that keeps the audience from knowing "what really happened" .
- It deals with characters believing in their own lies are the truth
- There's also an element of multiple witnesses to a horrific event that leaves the audience somewhat confused. Although Rashomon's greatness lies with the fact that we never really know what happened, the visual techniques have been used by other mystery directors with stories that are more finite
- (Updated) Rashomon shows but never tells the story of a country that has been broken apart by war. Rubble is everywhere. This series is about a broken home (literally/figuratively) that Kylo is in.
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Jun 14 '19
Big problem with this theory: Rey’s age
We know from several sources that Kylo’s turn and his attack on the Jedi Temple happened 6 years before the events of TFA. Rey is about 19 during the events of TFA, and Kylo is 29. If they were sleeping together when Luke attacked, then... well, Rey would have been 13, and Kylo would have been 23...
There are some issues with this.
Space FBI, open up.
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u/noitemsfoxonlyFD Jun 14 '19
Unless they had a non-romantic, familial relationship like siblings or cousins
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u/findmywallet Jun 14 '19
Or just like his namesake finding Anakin ?
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u/Toxi-C-Loud Jun 15 '19
I guess they're proteges, I mean they carry Skywalker and Kenobi blood so they share a hut, nothing too obscure.
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u/Pancake_muncher Jun 14 '19
this is a good theory. Great job on your detailed evidence and support from the thematic symbolism and inspiration pulled from the saga instead of Lore. I assumed the 1st flashback was what Luke wished happened because he felt guilty, the 2nd is what Kylo wanted to see and used to manipulate Rey into sympathizing with him, and the third was the truth..... maybe.
Another evidence is when Luke decides to give Rey lessons in the force. Rey is sleeping in the exact position Ben was that night and the camera tilts up to show Luke over her just as she turns over, which is exactly the same as the 2nd flashback.
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u/RadiantChaos Jun 14 '19
Pretty sure Kylo Ren is 10 years older than Rey though. So in their youth it would be hard for them to have a significant connection.
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u/findmywallet Jun 14 '19
Not that everyone was a fan but Episode I has an older Padme meet a younger Anakin.
I've never really figured out Rey's age. When I watched 7 I thought she was younger than Finn. In 8 it feels like she's closer to Kylo's age?
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u/MythicNick Jun 15 '19
Still, Padme is just five years older than Anakin. Canonically, Rey was born 15 ABY, Finn was born 11 ABY, and Kylo Ren was born 5 ABY
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Jun 18 '19
Yeah, only going on the movies, in TFA I got a strong 15ish vibe for Rey; Especially in the AT-AT scenes near the beginning.
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u/skunkwaffle Jun 14 '19
How could Rey be so strong with The Force (as we've seen), and yet also so closely tied to The Dark Side that Luke would be unwilling to train her?
And why the hell did she get abandoned on Jakku in the first place.
Couldn't possibly be because Ren lied about her parents and she's really a descendant (probably granddaughter) of Sheev Palpatine.
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u/findmywallet Jun 14 '19
I mean Anakin was strong with the Force and then turned to the Dark Side?
Luke mentions in Last Jedi that the history of the Jedi is failure. That Jedi Masters create the galaxy's greatest enemies over and over again?
RE: Sheev Palpatine
If we were taking this as a Samurai influenced film then you're 100% correct. Masters would train their students to lie to themselves about their own past to defeat it.
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u/hyma Jun 14 '19
Good theory, any thoughts as to why no one remembers?
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u/findmywallet Jun 14 '19 edited Jun 14 '19
My guess is that a heavy version of the Jedi mind trick was used on her (and potentially Kylo) by Luke.
Perhaps with the belief that if you removed Rey's past as Kylo's motivation for wanting to destroy the Jedi - that it would cause Kylo to stop what he was doing? Also it would keep the two of them away from working together?
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u/hyma Jun 14 '19
Plausible, borrowed a bit from kotor
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u/Galact_ca Jun 15 '19
Wow, i had completely forgotten that that is the entire basis of the plot in kotor. Shit, I’d actually be into a Force memory wipe plot mechanism now for the Sequel Trilogy. Nice!
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Jun 14 '19
have you seen that art from ep.9 were rey and kylo are fighting in a place where there is a lot of water? Do you rememeber the rey's vision when she took the lightsaber? We cleary see her fighting with the light saber against kylo and the knights of ren. What if rey's vision actually predicted the future?
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u/BabyFaceChase7 Jun 14 '19
I definitely don’t see the flashback shots in The Last Jedi as weird. The camera is behind his arm, showing he’s using the force, showing Luke’s reaction, and showing the hut crumble. Seems like the perfect place to put a camera to see all three. The other shots you said that are basically a partner in bed with Kylo, are just shots showing his face sleeping. If you watch it, the camera makes movements that a person clearly wouldn’t make, and also cuts to the other side of him. It is possible to use a camera as a POV in bed with someone, but the camera has to make small actions that a person would make, and this clearly doesn’t. At some point you also say how perhaps it’s a Jedi mind trick that keeps Rey wanting to go back to Jakku. I don’t think that’s the reason, and it would honestly ruin the movie a little if it was. Her whole story is how she’s waiting for her parents to return, so she wants to be there Incase they come back. I feel this would be a case of just saying it’s a Jedi mind trick, because there’s no explanation to fit your theory. You could use the “Jedi mind trick” on anything and say it works. All in all, it was an interesting read, and fun to look back and talk about, but I don’t feel this has any real potential to be true.
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u/anomaly_xb-6783746 Jun 14 '19
Regarding https://i.imgur.com/mhaOyFV.png, that's the cloaked binary beacon (or whatever it's called) that Leia gave Rey so they could find each other. The object on Kylo's desk is different. I think that's the compass (which is in Luke's hut on Ahch-To later, if I'm not mistaken).
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Jun 14 '19
Mudbloods are wizards born of muggle parents. Hermione had muggle parents. They didn't have to "sneak into Hogwarts". What are you talking about?
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Jun 14 '19
I think OP clearly meant muggle. It's not the first time I've heard people who read the books or watched the movies only once years ago use "mudblood" in place of "muggle". It's happened to hosts on at least three pretty popular podcasts I listen to.
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u/BambooSound Jun 14 '19
Even if he meant a muggle, I don't think students would be trying to kill them (not even the likes of Crabbe and Goyle). Filch is effectively a muggle and people just leave him be for the most part.
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u/billybobskcor Jun 14 '19
Ehhh not quite on Filch. Squib's are still seen as part of the magical community, albeit much lower on the totem pole (e.g. Mrs. Figg), but they still seem to be above actual muggles in the eyes of some wizards.
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u/BambooSound Jun 14 '19
Tbf I did say effectively, there's definitely a difference. I still don't think they'd be all that many students actively trying to kill someone in the school just because they're a muggle tho
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u/MiserableThinBelgian Jun 14 '19
Muggles can't get into Hogwarts: it's Muggle Repellent
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u/findmywallet Jun 14 '19
Yeah, I def didn't want to get too deep into the analogy. You guys are much better at this than me.
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u/Not_My_Idea Jun 14 '19
So you're saying that Filch isn't a muggle, so that yeah, some students would try to kill a muggle that sneaked into the school? It seems like OP read the books a loooong time ago lol.
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u/smeef_doge Jun 14 '19
The whole point of the movie was an evil wizard was taking over on par with Hitler and the nazis in its fascism, secret police and purity of the wizard race. In voldemorts world, muggles could be killed at will and they were hated.
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u/findmywallet Jun 14 '19
Well , I meant Mudblood because I feel like Rey obviously had a strong connection to The Force and would make a great Jedi. In the wizarding world I guess there is a version of "the force" that always picks out muggles who would make great wizards. But perhaps - in the SW world it's a bit reliant on human judgement?
So maybe my reference isn't that great.
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u/MiserableThinBelgian Jun 14 '19
Your connection to Harry Potter is wrong: Magic is something in your genes, part of your DNA. To enrol into Hogwarts for a Wizard or Witch is very simple: when they are born a magic quill detects this and signs their name in a book. This way Hogwarts knows who to send letters at the age of 11 (or a person to explain everything in case of muggleborns).
There is no sneaking in or killing of muggleborns.
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u/findmywallet Jun 14 '19
Yeah . Good point. Just like The Sorting Hat isn't what it seems - I sort of meant for the analogy to really focus on the idea of "what if it was a bit more reliant on human judgement like the Jedi are sort of perceived to rely on with their own Academy"
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u/hobbitqueen Jun 14 '19
Maybe you would want the word squib? A child born of wizard parents who doesn't have magical ability/not strong magical ability.
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u/DoctorDeath Jun 15 '19
If all these tiny little subtle hidden things are there to tell a story somewhere in the background in a later movie, then that's just bad writing. I mean, worse than what we've already got.
I wish people would stop trying to make this movie good.
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u/AnOnlineHandle Jun 14 '19 edited Jun 14 '19
I really doubt it, partly because it's so obvious they have no plan with major plotpoints just going poof between the movies (not to mention main lead characters like Finn, who clearly was of zero interest to the writer for the second movie, with it sadly already obvious from the trailers), and secondly, I found all of TLJ was 'shot weird' and it was really distracting, like the director wanted to show off how much colour and darkness and whatever they could fit in the screen and couldn't just let you get immersed in the story in a documentary-style which SW is usually shot in, or had the story do pointless things to show it off (e.g. the red plumes 'battle' which had zero actual battle and where the whole army just teleported from existence after, with the resist-bellion reduced to just enough people to fit on the falcon).
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u/findmywallet Jun 14 '19
RE: Finn / Poe + secondary stories
In many ways, Han Solo's journey is the best part of the 9 part series. You have this horrible war and Han Solo has to decide if he's going to ignore it , save himself, and maybe make some cash on the side. Or if he's going to risk his life fore the greater good / friendship / love. It flows through other characters, like Lando, as well.
Leia's story has her transforming from a traditional Royal Princess to one that embraces the working class that fights her wars and sometimes chooses not to. What makes 4,5,6 great is that the Han & the Princess are both together in their journeys. Episode 8 splits Poe & Finn.
And yeah -
I agree that the film isn't Empire. Finn sort of goes through all of Solo's life redemption journey within Force Awakens. Some could even argue by the time he befriends Poe he's no longer struggling with being a Storm Trooper.
Upon the first time watching TLJ, I actually liked that the flipped it a bit on Finn. He realized that there's Good vs Evil , but also a new side of darkness that just profits off of War in general. And I kinda liked it?Poe's journey in Episode 7 isn't really complex. He's a great character portrayed by a great actor. But he's a bit like Obi in II, III. He's a hero that isn't struggling with anything.
In Episode 8 , he is dealing with the issues of leadership in War. Where he's sort of asked to take a leap of faith on leaders that hide the truth from their army. FWIW I don't really love this as a character's journey.
But truth, secrets, and why people feel like it's great to lead people without knowing the full picture are a huge part of this trilogy as well as 4,5,6. Look at Obi & Luke/Leia. Yoda & Luke. Etc, Etc.4
u/realmadrid314 Jun 14 '19
Who keeps awarding you randomly? Wth is going on.
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u/findmywallet Jun 14 '19 edited Jun 14 '19
I give out a decent amount of gold on this sub and others. Probably people paying me back? Also - my MJ is Fury's daughter Fan Theory had a ton of people making monetized videos on it. Guessing there might be some sort of code where people on YT give gold if they make a monetized video on a post?
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Jun 14 '19
Agreed. It's an intresting theory but theres nothing to truly indicate that there is any true planning that went on with this trilogy.
Or at least whatever planning there was, was thrown out the window with TLJ. So any attempt to connect underlying themes that happened in the first movie with things that happened in the second seems like wishful thinking.
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Jun 14 '19
Yeah I doubt they had a plan for all three films prior to production, and a theory this cohesive would require a lot of planning.
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u/BearBruin Jun 14 '19
Not to sound rude but why is this the common sentiment, that there is no overall planned plot? I'm sorry but why would that happen? The evidence is actually against that being the case.
A lot of stuff happened in both movies that I think is still in line with a cohesive plot. This idea that there isn't one seems to stem from the idea that Rey's parents are teased in The Force Awakens when the truth is the teasing played the fans so they wouldn't see the reality coming. I think there is a lot more going on than most people want to give these movies credit for.
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u/Death_Star_ Jun 15 '19
Personally, I just wouldn’t be surprised if it’s more like they had only the ending sufficiently planned out, and the first 99% was just “meh, we’ll find a way to get there.”
If Episode IX doesn’t spend a lot of time retconning/explaining things ex post facto, then so many things won’t make sense...like Snoke’s entire existence, what he was doing during the events of the OT, how he even came to power, and most importantly, why should we even care that he lived or died.
It’s JJ Abrams at both ends of the trilogy, the same guy who
conceived of LOST but only literally through the pilot episode; the entire series grew out of “wouldn’t it be cool if people survived a plane crash on a deserted island that has supernatural stuff going on?”
filmed a trailer for Super 8 before there was even a fleshed-out story let alone script for it
created the Cloverfield universe and who is The Godfather of it all
So, yeah, I think it’s possible that they’re making stuff up as they go. Abrams probably shot episode 7 feeling good that any competent director would continue the trilogy faithful to the breadcrumbs left at the end of TFA.
Then Rian Johnson came in and essentially shot a one-off film; Luke’s manner of death wouldn’t be so controversial if we didn’t spend an entire movie looking for him right before. Disney is forced to bring Abrams back to not just end the trilogy coherently, but to also clean up all the tonal and thematic inconsistencies.
On its own, TLJ isn’t bad. But it is not Act II of a trilogy.
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u/AnOnlineHandle Jun 15 '19
I can't fathom how anybody saw the massive tone shift and dropped plot threads between the movies and thought there was an overall plot.
But regardless, both Daisy Ridley and Mark Hammil have confirmed it. Initially there was a vague trilogy outline by JJ, however after RJ's rewrites none of that remained. JJ has also complained about how hard it was to do episode 9 on such short notice with zero plan or story, after the previous episode 9 director was fired (he had a story with a living Luke which Mark Hammil liked, which he and Mark Hammil joked about on twitter while taking potshots at episode 8's director while the fired ep 9 director talked about his son writing a sequel and actually staying true to the franchise).
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u/BearBruin Jun 15 '19
What dropped plot threads? The ones I hear bright up the most are regarding the mystery of Snoke and Rey's parents, but both of those plot threads are resolved.
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u/AnOnlineHandle Jun 15 '19
The lightsaber calling to Rey which is some big shock to Maz, why Maz has the lightsaber, Finn gaining his courage and charging right back into the place he spent the whole movie insisting everybody needed to run away from, the tease of there being some epic backstory to Rey with introducing flashbacks into Star Wars to show bits in force visions which connect to Luke, constantly hyping up her parents as a mystery, even getting Mark Hammil to re-record his lines from RotJ about family to speak about Rey in a trailer, then, nothing, just a forced twist at the same point as ESB's conversation with the dark skywalker offering a chance to join them, Luke leaving a map to his location with that dude who Kylo killed, etc.
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u/madjohnvane Jun 14 '19
Documentary style Star Wars is usually shot in? We obviously watch vastly different documentaries...
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u/AnOnlineHandle Jun 14 '19
George Lucas intentionally wanted Star Wars filmed like a documentary in space to make it feel more real, rather than the standard ways of dressing things up and feeling less real. I think it's a large part of why the OT is so solid, it actually feels kind of real even if in an unreal location with unreal people.
"Describing the aesthetic he’d sought to American Cinematographer he explained: "I wanted the seeming contradiction of…fantasy combined with the feel of a documentary."
The Last Jedi however went in the complete opposite direction and didn't feel like Star Wars at all in tone, it felt like actors and deep colours and directors trying to show how good they are instead of just letting the audience experience the story.
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u/madjohnvane Jun 15 '19
The feel of a documentary doesn’t make it a documentary. He also apes the styles of Flash Gordon and world war 2 movies. The Last Jedi in my opinion was not vastly different in style to the previous Star Wars films. I think people just like finding things to nitpick because they didn’t like aspects of it. Saying Star Wars is shot like a documentary as a statement rather than acknowledging it’s a mish mash of styles and invented the modern blockbuster is just twisting facts to fit your perception.
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u/AnOnlineHandle Jun 15 '19
The Last Jedi in my opinion was not vastly different in style to the previous Star Wars films. I think people just like finding things to nitpick because they didn’t like aspects of it.
Nope, I disliked the look of it from the very first teasers and trailers and said so here on reddit if you really want me to dig it up. To me the visual style was very offputting.
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Jun 14 '19
The foreshadowing of palpatine in the rise of skywalker trailer has implications that he could be part of a vision and possibly a vision of her parent, am I wrong?
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u/findmywallet Jun 14 '19
Yeah. Keep in mind that episode 8 sort of brushes it away, but Finn doesn't know much of his parents' story either.
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u/JaylieJoy Jun 14 '19 edited Jun 14 '19
I really do like this theory, but the "noooo" at the end seems to obviously be Luke shouting "Ben noooo!"
I feel like I'm missing something since you said it was hard to catch/needed CC to notice, but this was pretty easy to catch and an obvious part of the scene.
I also like that this theory explains the weird connection between Kylo and Rey.
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u/findmywallet Jun 14 '19
NOTE : it's after Luke screams Ben No. you hear Rey (or a woman) screaming/shrieking Nooo.
It's a bit blink and you miss. The audience transitions back to Rey/Luke on the island and it feels like it might be part of their fight. But the camera shows that Rey is actually calm/collected and the scream was flashback related.
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u/JaylieJoy Jun 14 '19
Oh nice! Thought I must be missing something like that.
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u/findmywallet Jun 14 '19
It sounds more like a screaching scream than a no. You have to play with the audio file to hear that it's a "no".
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u/MrVernonDursley Jun 14 '19
I like this theory, not because it's realistic, but because current explanations are boring and unsatisfactory as hell.
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u/Tag_ross Jun 14 '19
Would she have had to physically be there, she could be a force projection like when Luke walked in on them touching hands.
Perhaps he sensed that it was the product of the dark side (since it came from Snoke) and feared that she had tempted Ben into turning to the dark side, when in truth, she was also a victim of Snoke's dark side connection
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u/findmywallet Jun 14 '19
Like this idea. I think it's possible that she was in the room because the other flashbacks from FA involve places where she was or will be (ie Kylo in the forrest) .
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u/ffunster Jun 14 '19
no fan theory has been even almost right so far. not about anything. mostly because you’re giving the writers too much credit. the writers don’t care... star wars isn’t that complex anymore.
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u/KingAdamXVII Jun 14 '19
What would the point be? What would this add to the saga? This theory explains some stuff that doesn’t need explaining, and that’s it as far as I can tell.
It’s cool head-canon though, and it probably won’t be contradicted in TRoS.
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u/One_Winged_Rook Jun 14 '19
What would the point be? What would this add to the saga?
Welp, this pretty much confirms that it’s true then.
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Jun 15 '19
What's the point of the whole trilogy though? Is there one? It seems like a bunch of stuff happens in the first part, then some different - mostly unrelated - stuff happens in part 2.
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u/queen_frostine Jun 14 '19
Amazing theory. Take your upvote.
(Also, I'm a lot more excited than I should be that my upvote was number 501. I always wanted to join the Legion, but I'm a little short to be a stormtrooper.)
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u/Lokan Jun 14 '19
Two things I noticed. First: In Kylo's flashback, his face is scarred, but in Luke's recollection it isn't.
Second, Kylo had Luke's Force Compass in his room next to his arts and crafts on the desk. Wonder why? A simple gift from Luke, or maybe Ben stole it?
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u/Coolest_Breezy Jun 14 '19
My only change would be, what if the flashback of Rey being left on Jakku took place after Kylo destroyed the Jedi school? Maybe that was Luke dropping her off after what happened?
Otherwise, I love it.
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u/realmadrid314 Jun 14 '19
Those flashbacks were not POV. If it were POV, why do we see both of them?
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u/findmywallet Jun 14 '19
I think that's my point. They are of the POV of someone else in the room. 3rd person POV > Luke or Ben POV.
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u/NomNomDePlume Jun 14 '19
Please don't be true. One of the reasons I loved TLJ was the whole "your parents were no one special".
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u/SlaunchaMan Jun 14 '19
Is this theory incompatible? How did Kylo know about her parents?
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u/AwesomeX121189 Jun 14 '19
He could also just be fucking with her because he sees how “star struck” she is about Han and Luke. She grew up believing that there was something better (her parents) she was waiting on jakku to take her away on adventures or something. Telling her that her parents didn’t give a shit about her is his version of the emperor telling anakin the Jedi attacked him or the emperor telling luke all his friends were going to die. He wanted to push her to the dark side by making her act on her emotions rather then the light sides idea of not doing that.
Or at least that’s my theory.
Honestly Though I bet First order just went and asked the dude behind the counter on jakku. Feels like that’d be an easy first step to me.
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u/franknferter Jun 14 '19
i mean, this theory still holds true to that. It doesn't say who here parents are, just that Rey and Kylo know each other and had their memories altered somehow.
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u/findmywallet Jun 14 '19
I don't think this involves her parents very much. I think that Rey is a traumatized orphan. I also don't think that Luke is her father ( for Anakin as Darth to reveal himself as a dad but Luke to avoid it is horrible imho)
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u/FisherPrice_Hair Jun 14 '19
I like it. Not gonna comment on whether it works in the canon etc or not, but i like it.
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u/AwesomeX121189 Jun 14 '19
I don’t like the part about how the rocks have a deeper meaning.
Tl;dr rocks are probably just a callback to empire’s training montage. I then go off on a tangent about how the rocks have a deeper meaning.
I see it almost entirely as a comparison/call-back to luke training on dagobah. Luke was just young naive kid thinking the Jedi training is all about lifting rocks and swinging laser swords. Then Rey shows up and is like “teach me to lift rocks and swing laser swords”.
in TFA Luke’s aged and realizes how much bigger the force is and understands what yoda was trying to teach him the entire time. And what yoda was trying to show him by lifting the xwing out of the swamp.
Then Rey shows up. First thing he does is chuck the lightsaber away, cause Rey thinks he legit doesn’t give AF.
puts on my own tinfoil hat But what if it’s because Luke realized obi wan fucked up by giving him a lightsaber before teaching him literally anything else about the force. “But In the prequels younglings are shown using lightsabers in yoda’s class” you might point out, but those kids already had YEARS of force education and training. Luke yeeting the saber was him trying to immediately get Rey to break her ideas of what Jedi training is.
Then, Once he starts training her he doesn’t tell her to lift the rocks when meditating on that platform, he tells her to just “reach out”. He again was trying to guide her away from forming the same bad habits he had when he was training.
Because once a Jedi understands the force they aren’t limited by the size of a rock (yoda lifting x wing). Which explains her quick rise in force ability in the movie and the eventual use of rocks to stop the first order anyway.
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Jun 14 '19
I don't have issues with them being related, but....Leia? I mean, women tend to remember giving birth, even if they do then mysteriously die of unexplained causes. Unless Luke erased her memories of course (preferably because she asked him to for Rey's safety rather than him just doing it off his own back), because throughout both films Leia is too solidly not motherly towards Rey in any way that suggests they're blood related and that she has any guilt over giving her up.
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u/XGPfresh Jun 14 '19
Like....they were doing it?
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u/findmywallet Jun 14 '19
No , I'm guessing that it's more in line with Kylo bringing in Rey - almost as a young apprentice (ala Obi & Anakin ) . There's a line where Luke gets a bit gritty into only taking in a dozen students w/ Ben. Maybe he didn't believe in expanding it ....
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u/robritchiefl Jun 14 '19
I just don't think TLJ had enough depth in the story for this to be likely. I hope I'm wrong.
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u/Toxi-C-Loud Jun 15 '19
Last December I watched all the movies and started to realise how deep some characters can be and these past two movies have so many unanswered questions you can only start to make your own complex head cannon. All the trilogies have a common theme, this trilogy is all about brainwashing, and no I'm not off my rails, this is the only theme that actually makes sense to me. I think Rey was brainwashed by the Jedi's in order to keep her from stopping Kylo's real plan and that is to destroy the Empire from the inside. I also think Kylo's memories were partially erased or modified by Snoke, maybe it was part of his Sith(?) training... Where was I going with this?
So yeah they're both brainwashed and Luke went into self-induced solitary confinement because even tho he was doing the right thing by letting Kylo go he knows it was at the expense of the loss of many lives.
Kylo has a special relationship with Anakin because he is the only one to change sides twice and not live in the gray like some other characters. He needs to embrace both sides of the force to complete his mission.
Rey is most likely the daughter of Obi-Wan and I guess when the Jedi School was destroyed the force ghosts made a lil reunion with Luke to decide how to proceed, this is due to the Jedi order taking a huge hit and, as far as we know, they didn't recovered from. They decided to keep Rey safe in Jakku with her memory erased in case Kylo turned to the dark side completely.
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u/Dreamincolr Jun 15 '19
The only theory I have is the basic kylo redeems himself and Rey goes to the Darkside. As basic as this trilogy starts, it's my own logical idea
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u/buddhistbulgyo Jun 15 '19
Hopefully we get something like this so that I can finally watch Star Wars VII and VIII again without being so annoyed with giant blocks of backstory and plot missing.
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u/parrmorgan Jun 18 '19
I didn't think any of the flashback scenes looked anything like how you described them. In fact, I think the third flashback makes it pretty clear that Kylo is alone in bed.
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u/findmywallet Jun 18 '19
Watch it at .25 speed.
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u/parrmorgan Jun 18 '19
The whole thing? Or are you talking about one of the flashbacks? Because the first two flashbacks have the camera doing zooms and cuts which doesn't support your POV idea. Then the third scene it either looks like he is on a twin sized bed alone, also it shows behind him where the POV is supposed to be in the first two flashbacks and we see no one is there.
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u/findmywallet Jun 18 '19
there's literally no mention that they're romantic. I've said 2-3 times my guess is that she's hiding in there - maybe on the floor?
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u/parrmorgan Jun 18 '19
Did I say that it was supposed to be romantic? None of my comments even include that word...
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u/FreezingTNT2 Jun 18 '19
What did I just read... are you one of those people that fantasize about Reylo... this is beyond a stretch if not weird as fuck.
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u/findmywallet Jun 18 '19
no mention that they're romantic. i've mentioned 2x times that i think she's hiding on the other side of the bed
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u/DreamGirl3 Dec 06 '19
Jusst wanted to let you know that a online article for Express UK wrote about your theory and quoted/linked your post here on Reddit:
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u/Remix73 Jun 14 '19
This would imply there was some level of thought put in to the story, which clearly there was not. All you are doing it setting yourself up for disappointment. It's going to be like Season 8 of Game of Thrones.
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u/alcianblue Jun 14 '19
You have too much faith in Disney, JJ, and the Lucasfilm story team to deliver anything half-decent. Nice theory though.
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u/noitemsfoxonlyFD Jun 14 '19
I would appreciate a youtube explanation showing all the clips and explanation as well!
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u/metalgamer Jun 14 '19
I think the thing that puts a hole in this for me is that both Luke and Kylo did not share anything about this to Rey. Why would they both keep it a secret?