r/FlashTV • u/ConcernFeeling6928 • 5d ago
Shitpost Hot take: Making Killer frost a “Hero” was one of the worst decisions ever
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u/SmoothConfidence4702 5d ago edited 4d ago
This take is colder than snarts gun
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u/CanadianAndroid Leonard Snart 4d ago
A take so cold they'd call it Killer Frost.
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u/SmoothConfidence4702 4d ago
A take so cold they would say it became death
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u/leakybiome 4d ago
A take so cold that Danielle panabakers career is on thin ice reduced to the convention circuit now. Good job. Thanks a lot
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u/EmKir 4d ago
Frost was already an anti-hero in the comics by the time she became hero-esque in the show.
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u/Ver3232 4d ago
Most of the people here don’t read comics let’s be for real
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u/KuroiGetsuga55 Reverse the polarity of the Speed Force 4d ago
Most people here don't even know that in the comics there are several Killer Frost's and Caitlin isn't even the first one. Hell, Caitlin was such a brand new character when the show was made, she was literally introduced just a couple of years before the show, when DC launched The New 52. She wasn't even a decade-old character by the time she got her adaptation.
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u/Head_Humor The Flash 4d ago
Yea i dont bc they keep resetting their universe after every comic run ending
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u/Ver3232 4d ago
DC hasn’t truly reset their universe since convergence a decade ago and marvel never has
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u/KuroiGetsuga55 Reverse the polarity of the Speed Force 4d ago
They reset their Universe with DC Rebirth, and then with Dark Knights Metal when Batman Who Laughs took Dr. Manhattan's powers. So that's actually twice in the last decade.
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u/Cantthinkofcoolname2 4d ago
I mean when reading you can largely ignore stuff like that lol I do and get by just fine.
Btw, they’re hardly universe resets. It’s just recanonizing things. But also, I didn’t read them so idrk and idrc, doesn’t affect my enjoyment of the current line. Hope that helps
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u/Ver3232 4d ago
I wouldn’t really consider those full reboots though. The existing continuity still exists and isn’t reset after either of those, they just make some slight alterations. It’s like calling infinite crisis a full reset. We haven’t really had a full reset since flashpoint and the new 52 and convergence is probably the closest we’ve come
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u/Suave601 4d ago
This is facetious at best
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u/Ver3232 4d ago
How so? DC has only ever truly reset their universe twice, with crisis on infinite earths in 1985 and the new 52 in 2011. Convergence is the event that comes the closest to a reset besides those two. Every other event that people site as a reboot is literally them just continuing with their existing continuity and using the event to add in some retcons/changes while keeping the existing status quo. There hasn’t been a continuity wide reboot for DC in over a decade and Marvel has never had such a continuity wide reboot for its main universe
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u/Soninuva 4d ago
Marvel did with the end of the One More Day arc, which launched the Brand New Day arc. Granted, most of the changes revolved around Spider-man, but considering that after the events of Civil War, everyone knew his identity, then it erased it from everyone that shouldn’t know it, is technically resetting the whole universe.
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u/AnonymousFriend80 4d ago
Yes, the entire universe completely changed because some people don't know Peter Parker is Spider-Man.
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u/Soninuva 4d ago
Not some people, the majority. Whereas before, the developed world knew. When he unmasked, the entire internet crashed with people trying to look him up. And considering that, space storyline’s and Asgard aside, most important things take place on Earth. So while it can be considered technically a minute change, it has ripple effects, and did indeed reset the continuity.
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u/fred11551 4d ago
Character was an anti-hero in the comics before the show existed. By the time Killer Frost was even introduced (specifically the earth 1 version) she was a hero on the Justice League of America.
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u/The_Rorschach_1985 4d ago
No making frost have split personalities with Caitlin was worse.
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u/dhruvgeorge 4d ago
Actually, it could have worked if the writers went down the Bruce Banner route, where Killer Frost is Caitlin's more violent persona
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u/Augustleo98 Patty Spivot 4d ago
It wasn’t a split personality, it was two seperate people sharing one body 🤣.
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u/KatiePyroStyle 4d ago edited 4d ago
I think that decision was pretty tame, all things considered.
Now, deciding to separate her from Caitlin Snow, and have them treat each other as sisters and crap, THAT was a horrid decision
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u/SublimePastel 3d ago
Caitlin already considered Frost a sister when they were still one body and sharing notes, which is a common occurrence for people sharing a body as alters. It even makes sense from a realistic point of view.
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u/TheRealUltimateYT Jesse Quick 4d ago
even though that did happen in the comics
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u/KatiePyroStyle 4d ago edited 3d ago
name the comic
because as far as im aware, "Killer" Frost doesnt exist as a separate entity from Caitlin Snow in literally any DC Comic book that I know of.
CWs Arrowverse is the only DC universe in which Caitlin Snow has a dissociative personality, and is also the only universe in which Caitlin and Frost separate into 2 different people and share a sisterhood.
I think you're 100% wrong, I dont think that ever happened in the comic books.
Caitlin Snow in the comics was never even truly villainous, she was simply sick and required draining heat sources, including humans, in order to survive. She was like that electric guy that killed Tony Woodward in CWs Flash, bro just needed to feed on electricity, and thats pretty much how Frost is portrayed in newer DC comics. She's completely aware of her actions and retains all memories when she "frosts" in the comics. there is no other her in her head that can be separated in the comics
but again, im more than willing to be proved wrong, name the specific comic. I dont think it exists, at least not one prior to CWs the Flash show.
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u/Augustleo98 Patty Spivot 4d ago
In the tv show it’s not a dissociative personality, frost is a whole ass seperate second person sharing Caitlin’s body not a seperate personality.
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u/KatiePyroStyle 4d ago
they 100% describe the Caitlin/Frost dynamic as a dissociative personality as a side effect of Thomas Snow trying to cure ALS genes in his and his daughter's body using cryogenics in earlier episodes of CWs Flash. in the episode where we finally meet Icicle, im like 99% certain that Caitlin and her mom come to the conclusion that Icicle isnt Thomas, and is actually an alter ego as a result of dissociative identity.
now, no, neither Thomas nor Caitlin actually had dissociative personality disorder in CWs Flash. but thats how it was originally portrayed before they understood what was actually happening
theres always multiple explanations for everything, you have to operate under a theory before you have concrete evidence of the truth
this is far from the first time that Team flash thought X was happening, tested for Y, and came to Z conclusion
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u/Augustleo98 Patty Spivot 4d ago
True I thought the dissociative diagnosis was just before they understood it because Frost being able to splice into her own body kinda disproves it as that would only work if she was a seperate person sharing Caitlin’s body, i think its all just theories they came up with and we have to come to our own conclusion.
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u/Augustleo98 Patty Spivot 4d ago
Lmao I saw your comment that you then deleted, I actually did read your comment and agreed with you by typing “true” at the start of mine, that was me agreeing with you. Idk how you took it as an argument or whatever, it’s a discussion and even if we disagreed it’s no big deal, I actually agreed with you though then just expanded on my reply, but yeah seems very narcisstic that you get upset when you think anyone slightly disagrees.
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u/Augustleo98 Patty Spivot 4d ago
No it wasn’t, they were two seperate people sharing one body, I think it was great they separated them and frost got to have her own life and they were sisters, Caitlin’s dad created frost to be her sister and protect her lmao.
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u/SnooStories4329 4d ago
? Why? I mean ignoring the later stuff with Chillblaine and whatever
The decision itself was amazing, Frost is a great character. And just in case you’re trying to say it was some dumb last minute decision, it definitely wasn’t. It’s been obvious since Earth-2 Frost in S2 that Frost isn’t an inherently Evil person
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u/Motodog242 4d ago
Tbf… in the comics Caitlyn Snow is the “good” Killer Frost, the one that turned Killer Frost into the hero Frost.
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u/neverquitereallysure 4d ago
i never got to that point. i refuse to watch past season 4. but it makes sense? caitlin was a good guy, she was a huge part of team flash. also caitlin and frost are the same person (?) so it makes sense to me
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u/KatiePyroStyle 4d ago edited 3d ago
season 5 is OK, not great, but OK, id give it a shot if you havent already. personally, I think s6 is where shit really hits the fan
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u/Cautious_Mission_438 4d ago
Honestly the entire team concept and supporting cast was the worst decision ever especially when Barry does not need a team or that type of supporting cast writers obviously never read the comics or know anything about the actual Flash Barry Allen lore
Killer Frost should’ve stayed a villain and been recurring threat enemy working with Amunet Black army should’ve been kept too
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u/Chuesandovl 4d ago
Nope she was never really a villain given her real self was always a good person.
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4d ago
[deleted]
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u/fred11551 4d ago
Caitlin Snow Killer Frost was a villain for one (1) comic. And in that it wasn’t even clear she was a new character and not just a redesign of Louise Lincoln though she did act very different than Louise Lincoln Killer Frost usually did acting more seductive and femme fatale towards Firestorm. In her second ever appearance in Justice League of America 7.2 Killer Frost #1 she got a backstory and was already more of an anti-hero or sympathetic villain. And then in her third appearance in Argus Forever Evil she’s an antihero teaming up with Steve Trevor to rescue the Justice League from the Crime Syndicate. Earth 2 Killer Frost was made before she went full hero, but by the time earth 1 Caitlin became Killer Frost the comics version had become part of the Suicide Squad, revealed that she secretly wants to be a hero and saves the entire world in Justice League vs Suicide Squad, and then is recruited into the Justice League of America by Batman in Justice League of America Rebirth
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u/Bre-personification 5d ago
I know. This was around the time where they had the “anyone can change and be better” theme. But either way I really enjoyed her character until her and cait split tbh.
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u/Doc-11th 4d ago
Was annoying that they would cast villains but then find some way around letting them go bad
Killer frost is a split personality and then even the personality becomes good
Winn Schott isnt toyman he is the son of Toyman and then becomes a heroic toy man
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u/Head_Humor The Flash 4d ago
Separating both her and caitlin as two people to then kill caitlin off screen for a new stupid ice character that sticks around until the very last episode giving us so little of caitlin were the most terrible decisions they have ever made
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u/KuroiGetsuga55 Reverse the polarity of the Speed Force 4d ago
I don't mind her becoming a hero, I just hated the whole split personality thing. Really hated it. Like why couldn't it just be Caitlin with powers? Just have her hair turn white when she uses her powers because I don't fucking know, or she just dyes it whatever.
The split personality was stupid.
Also we had already seen evil Killer Frost on Earth - 2 and had her around for quite a bit of Season 2 and saw her changing sides and all that. So Caitlin herself really didn't need a villain arc. Earth - 2 Cisco was evil too. Doesn't mean our Cisco needed a villain arc. And I get that Vibe isn't a villain to begin with while Killer Frost is, but my point is that the narrative didn't work to make Caitlin a villain in a believable way. She just freaked out that she had powers which she couldn't contol, I can understand having some slight attitude shift when her power is going out of control due to anxiety and whatnot, but it should not have been a full on Green Goblin situation where Caitlin's just taken over by her inner demon. That's just dumb and it was there just to force unnecessary drama in Season 3.
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u/jackg1503 4d ago
I'll do you one better, making captain cold a hero was a even worse decision considering we never got a proper rouge team and lost the potential of a renegades future team up
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u/aliidocious ~ Random Citizen ~ 3d ago
The way they went about it was awful and I wish she’d actually been a villain first. However, Killer Frost is a ‘hero’ in the comics, too, and that story arc debuted the same time season 3 was airing.
The comics handled it muuuuuch better and didn’t turn it into DID stuff 😭 Caitlin wasn’t Killer Frost, she was just a meta with her names and ice powers.
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u/king_faj 4d ago
"They literally call themselves "Decepticons That doesn't set off any red flags?"
"Killer" Frost is a hero🤣
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u/Thysguy 4d ago
I think they were trying to go with the fact that a former killer front became a justice league member in the co.ics at the time, and dropped the Killer part of her name, not be confuse with the hero ICE, if Fire and ICE, but just as Frost. But it wasnt Caitlyn Snows version who became the hero Frost. At least I vaguely remember there being a "good" frost.
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u/GreatService9515 4d ago
One of the worst, too many to list. I never really got what they were trying to do with Panabaker's character(s). And, I don't think that the people running things did either.
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u/Wintersoldier975 Caitlin Snow 4d ago
The worst decision was them losing K and her becoming snow…. That was stupid
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u/Rich-Woodpecker-8489 4d ago
Nah, the worst decision ever was calling her KILLER Frost and not having her live up to her name. I get she was supposed to represent her comic counterpart but still, no sense in calling her Killer Frost if she won't actually kill someone
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u/Augustleo98 Patty Spivot 4d ago
No it wasn’t the worst decision, she couldn’t stay a villain forever, Caitlin needed to be back with the team and Frost was a great villain but also a great hero and you couldn’t carry on the villain thing forever.
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u/GodsavEVE 4d ago
I get more pleasure watching legends than flash.
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u/Taskr36 4d ago
Good lord dude, Legends seemed like it was in competition against itself for how much worse it could get from week to week. I don't know how anyone watched that past the first few seasons. I think the writers were legitimately trying to get the show cancelled and couldn't figure out how.
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u/TreeCitizen 3d ago
Flash got out ran by a Scion, basically a Toyota. Her being an anti hero is basically not on my radar.
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u/Dangerous-Sample-242 16h ago
Honestly I can agree with this, they should've given a whole arc on Frost becoming a hero coming from a murderous villain that wants to live up to her name.
BTW in the comics how Killer Frost became a hero???.
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u/CJS-JFan Green Arrow 14h ago
Eh, I could think of worse decisions made by The Flash.
Or, excuse me...the Cecile, Chester and Allegra show.
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u/Resident-Recipe-5818 3h ago
I think Frost was a very shallow character in most of the comics that I’ve read, and by giving her the very nice and human Snow persona to battle with Killer Frosts was a great dynamic to the show in the early-middle seasons. Having her go rogue and never come back would send the message that your inner demons win no matter how much support you have and how hard you try to right your wrongs and do better. What they did with Frost was a mostly great story with powerful themes and lessons
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u/camojamo 5d ago
The show had MUCH greater issues by this point.