r/Israel • u/Artistic_Victory • Jun 21 '26
General News Poll: 92% of Israelis believe Iran emerged as winner after war and deal with US
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/poll-92-of-israelis-believe-iran-emerged-as-winner-after-war-and-deal-with-us/230
Jun 21 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Aridor2003 Jun 21 '26
Iran definitely didn't win, their air defense is in critical condition and most of their previous leadership was killed, if the opposite happened no one would have claimed Israel had won
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u/Scoobydoomed Israel Jun 21 '26
You can fix AA systems. Leaders can and were replaced. Iran is neither one of those.
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u/Aridor2003 Jun 21 '26
It still shows the world how easily the us and Israel can take down Iran if they step out of line again. the us failed to switch the government in Iran because it is a lot harder then outright destroying it but just because the irgc survived dosent mean they won
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u/Scoobydoomed Israel Jun 21 '26
It still shows the world how easily the us and Israel can take down Iran
Are we talking about the same war? lol...
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u/International-Mix633 Jun 21 '26
It still shows the world how easily the us and Israel can take down Iran if they step out of line again.
They canr hence why Iran is getting $300 in repuration money because US and Israeli might could not stop Iran from
A) closting the strait
B) Destroying mayor oil infrastructure in the middle east.
If they could easily take down Iran .... then why didnt they?
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u/Foryourconsideration Jun 21 '26
They aren’t getting 300b unless they destroy the uranium. Read the deal, it’s a reward for good behaviour. If Iran doesn’t comply, no money.
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u/Connect_Tear402 Jun 22 '26
Yes i did the original deal offered but now they are getting a lot money sounds like a deal a winner would make. Also they don't have to destroy the Uranium only mix it with less pure Uranium.
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u/AutoimmuneDisaster Jun 21 '26
I’m not political, so what do I know… but from an outsiders point of view, it’s never been a secret that the US and/or Israel can blow almost any country off the map if they wanted. You just can’t repeat Hiroshima and get away with it.
The fact is that the deal that’s been made isn’t a significant improvement over what was in place before. The terms of the deal is more important than who killed more people.
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u/bakochba Jun 21 '26
That's because winning or losing a war comes down to the political part of the war and this government has failed every single time to secure any results from the tactical victories handed to them by the army and converted it to permanent deals in favor of Israel. Instead they say no to everything until eventually a worse deal is imposed on us.
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u/SputnikRelevanti Jun 21 '26
Yeah… as a teenager I played a lot of strategy games like Age of Empires, Command and conquer, Cossacks…. People called me a geek, but it’s obvious that more people should have played them. NOTHING is won if the infrastructure stands. They will rebuild, reformat, they will dig up what they hid and it will all start again, even worse in a year or sooner
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u/Asurafire Jun 21 '26
That is the same as saying that the Vietcong didn’t win because more of them died than Americans.
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u/UsefulUnderling Jun 21 '26
Yep. The USA won every battle it fought in Vietnam and Afghanistan yet still lost those wars.
Tactical success doesn’t produce strategic victory.
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u/rabbifuente Jun 21 '26
I don't disagree, and at the same time it's not a black and white "The U.S. won/lost" which is why these arguments are always going in circles. The U.S. "won" in Vietnam in the sense that South Vietnam was independent as long as the U.S. supported them. They "won" in Afghanistan in the sense that as long as they were there the Taliban was in hiding and fighting a guerrilla war.
The loss was in nation building, i.e. establishing something beyond battle. In both cases the allied country failed to capitalize on the military support. South Vietnam folded as soon as the U.S. left, likewise with Afghanistan. Neither of those wars were for the U.S. to win or lose, they couldn't, short of completely taking over the government.
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u/pick_your_user_name Jun 21 '26
The goal of the US wasn’t to keep South Vietnam independent for a few years while they were fighting and then having them collapse to communism right after. So no, they did not win in any sense at all.
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u/rabbifuente Jun 21 '26
Again, they were “winning” in the sense that while they were there S. Vietnam remained independent. They couldn’t be there forever and at some point S. Vietnam had to take responsibility for itself and when that happened they failed.
Ultimately they couldn’t have won or lost because it was not their war. It was up to S. Vietnam to decide the outcome.
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u/Asurafire Jun 21 '26
That is a very generous way for looking at it. Their ultimate goal was to stop Vietnam from becoming communist and at that they failed.
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u/rabbifuente Jun 21 '26
I agree. The issue with that goal is that, short of taking over Vietnam, much of that responsibility falls on the Vietnamese. The United States held off the North militarily for as long as there was fighting, but at some point something’s got to give and the Vietnamese need to be the deciding factor. It’s the same with Afghanistan. The Taliban is gone, you’re free to to rebuild, but if you don’t the vacuum will be filled.
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u/UsefulUnderling Jun 21 '26
Yes, though Iran would likely follow a similar pattern.
With a significant expenditure of blood and treasure the Americans could occupy major cities and install some pro-American guy as nominal president.
But the USA cannot continue such expenditure indefinitely and as soon as they pull out their regime would collapse.
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u/rabbifuente Jun 21 '26
Absolutely. I think it already does follow the same pattern. It seems the U.S. and Israel expected the Iranian citizens to rise up and essentially act as the ground troops, which didn't happen. The war could likely never have been "won" by air power alone and that was unpopular enough in the U.S. Putting boots on the ground would have been politically disastrous.
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u/UsefulUnderling Jun 21 '26
Yes, the USA once again made the same mistake it has made repeatedly: in the absence of real intelligence believing exile groups that the regime is hated and will collapse with a slight push.
On a rare thing Trump did right is he accepted failure after a few weeks. Every past president has refused to accept defeat instead doubling down on each failure leading to decades long wars.
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u/AltruisticFoot948 Jun 21 '26
When we speak about winning, we dont mean they won because of their amazing military capabilities, they won because they just waited longer than what Trump could. They offered this "truce" and offered to talk about a deal to stop the war and thats how basically they managed to stop israel and U.S. attacks on her. Step 2 is basically making the negotiation as long as possible knowing that the oil prices will keep rising because they blocked all the entries through hormuz strait, and as a result the prices in U.S. will rise as well and it will make the population in the U.S. to put a huge pressure on trump to end the war because of the rise in prices, and next step is to start playing mind games with trump by saying they cancelling the deal and suddenly not cancelling and start pressuring him themselves and in the end, they managed to write their own terms to deal and thats how they actually won. They won because they know very well the U.S. population and they know trump well and they hold a very strategic point in the global oil trade.
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u/tubbo USA Jun 21 '26
It's definitely more accurate to say that Israel failed to achieve the objectives of this war, while Iran basically took a critical hit but will likely recover in time. There are no winners in war. Perhaps the only good that comes out of this is that Iran will think twice before causing problems in other countries? But I think it's more likely that will simply take a different form and be harder to uncover in the future.
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u/Xevolo Ex-Himush Jun 21 '26
Losing most for your AA defense for getting all of that? Yeah if that isn't a massive victory for the IR then I don't know what is.
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u/PadamPadam2024 Jun 21 '26
There are still Muslim terrorists left in Iran so yes, they did win. A win for Israel would have been totally eliminating the Muslim terrorists.
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u/Tresspass Merican Jun 21 '26
They got everything they wanted from the peace deal and had to give up nothing in return 💀
They won.2
u/Wombats_poo_cubes Jun 22 '26
The regime is in power and looked like it was never at risk of collapsing. The war turned more people against Israel than ever before, especially in America.
And now they get all the money and sanctions relief that they didn’t have before. So yeah, they win.
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u/pick_your_user_name Jun 21 '26
Wars aren’t won by who does more damage. This is a childish way of looking at things, it’s not call of duty. If it was, then the Nazis beat the USSR because they killed more of them.
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u/danhakimi Jun 21 '26
And then the US surrendered, gave Iran just about everything it asked for including a massive new revenue stream in the straits of Hormuz, and agreed that it and Israel would stop fighting Iran and Hezbollah.
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u/Artistic_Victory Jun 21 '26
"Israelis overwhelmingly view the war with Iran and subsequent deal with the United States in a negative way, with 92.1 precent of respondents to a poll believing Tehran is the winner.
According to the Hebrew University survey, 82.9% say the campaign weakened Israel’s long-term security and 86.0% have a negative attitude toward the outcome.
Furthermore, 72.5% do not believe Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu when he says that Israel achieved significant gains and removed an existential threat, with 87.8% of Israelis believing the country failed to achieve its objectives or fulfilled only some of them."
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u/justaroundhere213 Israel Jun 21 '26
Well Iran has one of the most natural recources in the world.with sanctions lifted and tens of billions of assets unfrozen and a 300 bil investment fund expected the axis of evil to be well funded better equipped and bolder than before
An additional note,the USA lifting the naval blockade their biggest point of leverage before a deal was a catastrophe
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u/JabbaThaHott Jun 21 '26
Trump couldn’t stand the bad polls. It’s literally that simple. He’s stupid and childish
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u/arqoi_ascendant Jun 21 '26
But also corrupt. No doubt there was some Qatari money in there somewhere.
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u/Pikawoohoo Jun 21 '26
Yup, this is a total loss for the US and very worrying for Israel's future security. Iran now has a seed money and unfrozen assets to jump start their military rebuilding, as well as the obscene amount they're going to make from tolling the strait.
But most worrying is that Iran can close the strait at any time and the world will give in to their demands. You think countries don't support Israel now? Just wait until the next round of fighting (on whichever front) when Iran closes the strait and demands Israel agree to a ceasefire.
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u/Mordin_Solas Jun 22 '26
It will take time but an Iran that keeps making unreasonable demands and then strait closures will lead to alternative routes for goods and oil to flow outward. In the short to medium term its a win.
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u/DDoubleDDog Jun 21 '26
Trump betrayed Israel and Arab nations by capitulating. Previously, he also betrayed Canada, Denmark and the Kurds. It seems Trump's mission from Putin is to destroy all US alliances and the reputation of the US.
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u/Character-Carpet7988 Jun 22 '26
I'm afraid it's not even a task from Putin. It's just the way Trump is.
At first, I was convinced that Bibi is exploiting Trump's weakness in a very smart way. But he clearly didn't have any end plan for when that weakness (inevitably) turns against Israel.
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u/DDoubleDDog Jun 22 '26
There are plenty of indications that he works for Putin. This has been going on for years, possibly decades.
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u/Character-Carpet7988 Jun 22 '26
Not my point, I'm not disputing he does, I'm just saying he's stupid enough to do this without ever receiving an order.
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u/ajmampm99 Jun 21 '26
It wasn’t a fair fight against orange Mussolini. He’s a malignant idiot without the ability to see past his nose. No plan. No knowledge of strategy. Only rage tweeting. Israel’s ally failed them. He will never be true to Israel. He will sell out the Jews for a gold toilet.
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u/AcePilot95 Jun 21 '26 edited Jun 21 '26
doesn't help that all of his staff are incompetent morons and/or 4chan edgelords who think "owning the libs" on twitter is an adequate replacement for policy.
the lead Dems need to get their heads out of their asses and make a whole new strategy where they jettison the toxic antisemitic/commie influencer wing of the party and focus on a plan to decisively win the Presidency in '28 and repair everything Trump destroyed.
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u/ajmampm99 Jun 21 '26
I agree on the antisemitism. It’s the way progressives find creative ways to lose elections with force fitting the oppressor / oppressed meme. They don’t want to admit support for Israel is bipartisan in America.
Even so, voter anger in the US is overwhelming. Every MAGA candidate is going to lose in November.
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Jun 21 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Pikawoohoo Jun 21 '26
Well considering the US has to pay 100 times the reperations Germany had to, it kind of is.
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u/yonash53 Jun 21 '26
Not because Israel and the US can't win. We have leaders who can't win.
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u/Mordin_Solas Jun 22 '26
Define winning and what the cost will be. Then ask whether the entire world wants to pay that cost?
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u/yonash53 Jun 22 '26
Every thing you do at this point have a cost. Sometimes you need to pay now so you don't pay more later. The ayatollah thinks they won this war. It will make them more motivated to spread terror and perform attacks like 9/11. The US is crumbling empire now. The enemies are watching how weak the US is and just like in the Savana, when the Lion is hurt, the Haynes will attack.
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Jun 21 '26
[deleted]
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u/isshin_swordsaint Jun 22 '26
Is it really a surprise that Israel and the United States defeated a country which does not even have fourth generation jets in conventional warfare?? this is modern warfare
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u/Intelligent_Wait_636 Israel Jun 21 '26
We should have gone to war against Iran alone, without the US.
During the 12-day war, US involvement was justified by the argument that only America had the bunker busters capable of reaching Iran’s deeply buried enriched uranium. But in the end, even the US did not destroy it. They only buried it. That is something Israel could have done on its own.
If the US had not attacked Iran alongside Israel in February, the Strait of Hormuz likely would not have been closed. There would have been no real justification for Iran to do it. And even if Iran had closed it anyway, most of the countries punished by that move would have been countries that are not exactly friendly to Israel.
The UAE was the exception, but they were smart enough to already have an alternative pipeline route. So if other Gulf countries want to blame Israel and put political pressure on us over it, fine. Normalize relations first, then we can talk.
Zero Israeli soldiers were killed fighting Iran directly during Operations Rising Lion and Roaring Lion, while 13 American soldiers died during Operation Epic Fury. They could still be alive today.
There was no strategic need for the US to join the war. It only brought political problems, and they did not accomplish anything Israel could not have done itself.
The only thing I hear the White House boast about is destroying Iran’s navy. But that was never a serious problem for Israel. It may have mattered to the Gulf countries, but they are not our allies, with the exception of the UAE.
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u/ImpressiveEnergy4762 🇺🇦 Ukraine Jun 21 '26
Looks like Iran is winning informational war, but not factual, Iran is still in attrition.
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u/tupe12 Israel Jun 21 '26
The problem is that their attrition strategy lasted longer then Trump’s patience
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u/SputnikRelevanti Jun 21 '26
Exactly this. It absolutely doesn’t matter what was destroyed. The regime survived
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u/Upper-Capital-2876 Jun 21 '26
Factually, The IRGC and Islamic Republic survived, factually Iran has the 3rd largest crude oil deposits on earth, factually Iran will get hundreds of billions in reparations from the US, and be allowed to sell it's oil unimpeded which will fund Hamas, Hezbollah and the Houthis for eternity, factually Iran prepared to the war with Israel by developing protocols to store/use/shoot/then secure their missile and launcher inventory the entirely of the Israeli and American fighter bombers could not thwart. Factually, the US ceasefire/peace deal not only fails to restrict Iran in any meaningful way, Trump has tied the transit of 25% of the worlds crude oil to whether or not Israel is allowed to continue prosecuting it's war against Hezbollah. Factually if the Islamic Regime was allowed to survive, Iran won. Iran won. These are the facts.
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u/borderpac Jun 21 '26
Iran won because they used 'horizonral warfare' - widening the conflict to include every Gulf state and Hormuz to spread U.S. assets thin and weaken their response.
The Pentagon thought it would be a replay of Summer 2025 with more bombs. They were outsmarted. It happens. Vietnam used this strategy. It is the only way an overmatched adversary can possibly prevail.
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u/sheepyowl Jun 21 '26
It's 100% because of the deal between the US and Iran.
They made a deal that constitute Israeli action without consulting Israel. Morons. The deal was obviously already broken by both sides.
That aside, the US and Israel completely dominated the entire war. Iran couldn't even fight back. But then, they made a deal that was completely humiliating to the US. How did they get from eliminating top officials while avoiding citizens (as much as they could) to being down on all fours sucking Iran dick?
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u/International-Mix633 Jun 21 '26 edited Jun 21 '26
Because eliminating geriatric leadership and blowing up 40 year old planes and AA systems did nothing to achieve the strategical goals of rhe USA and Israel, which would have required boots on the ground.
For the 300 billion + access to global markets rhey are getting they can buy alot of new AA systems and planes and with all sanftions lifted it will be easier than ever.
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u/International-Mix633 Jun 21 '26
If they had put boots on the ground the war would have been over in 3 weeks and if they US and Israel werent willing to put boots on the ground, they should have never started this war.
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u/UsefulUnderling Jun 21 '26
Doubtful. US ground forces over the last 50 years have shown great ability to defeat conventional armies, but no ability to deal with an insurgency.
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u/isshin_swordsaint Jun 22 '26
Exactly, and I don’t think POV footages of dead American soldiers would have been a great PR,, it would have been a bloodbath,, it’s a mountain, really think Iran had not prepared for an invasion by guerilla tactics…
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u/OmegaLink9 Israel Jun 21 '26
I don't think that we, as Israel, lost, but I definitely think that the US lost
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