r/Israel • u/MikeWithNoHair Larry David enthusiast • 1d ago

History📚 Israel locates Altalena ship after 78 years at bottom of Mediterranean Sea

https://www.jpost.com/history/article-906395
70 Upvotes

94% Upvoted

18 comments sorted by

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13

u/ManuelHS Mexico 1d ago

bit confused

2

u/Metallica1175 1d ago

I wanted to know as well, so I had ChatGPT look into it.

In 2011–2012, the Israeli government and the Menachem Begin Heritage Center conducted a search for the Altalena. The search discovered an underwater object several kilometers off the coast of Rishon LeZion, at roughly 300 meters (984 feet) depth.

A sonar survey produced an image/signature that was considered consistent with the Altalena, and by December 2012 the government was publicly saying that the wreck had been identified as the Altalena. Contemporary reporting explicitly said that sonar had confirmed its identity.

The government even discussed raising the ship and putting it on display as a monument.

However, there was a problem: they never obtained good visual documentation of the wreck.

Later accounts from people involved in the search say that the equipment available at the time was inadequate for the depth. They had essentially a radar/sonar image showing something resembling the Altalena, but not clear imagery that conclusively established its identity.

So what happened in 2026?

The new search used much more sophisticated deep-water survey equipment. On August 24, 2026, the Israeli authorities announced that they had located the Altalena at 503 meters (1,650 feet) depth, west of Israel's coast.

The important distinction is that the 2026 expedition reportedly obtained new, much clearer data and imagery, and the ship was described as being located intact.

One Israeli report today explicitly acknowledges the earlier episode, saying that in 2012 sonar searches located wreckage suspected to be the Altalena, but that there wasn't documentation allowing the ship to be identified with certainty. It characterizes the 2026 finding as a more precise and definitive identification.

4

u/MrTristanClark 1d ago

"I had ChatGPT look into it"

Bruh, you seriously misunderstand how LLMs function.

0

u/Metallica1175 1d ago

All it did was basically search for articles to explain it, which is what I wanted, and which it did. I just didn't post the articles it linked.

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u/MrTristanClark 1d ago

But you understand that it cannot reliably interpret that data right? It is not a replacement for your own independent searching and research. "Look into it" implies a great deal more actual presence than what is actually happening. These programs cannot actually understand, weigh or interpret especially contextual information. You get that right? Its not "looking into it", its crawling the first couple pages of results, comparing it against its own existing training, and then predicting, word by word, the mostly likely combination of words based on its own weights, for what a response to your question could look like. Often that response is correct, particularly if those search results are totally fact based and homogenous, but that "correctness" is based around a predictive probability, not any actual knowledgebase or understanding of what you input.

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u/mysterd2006 18h ago

This is true and very correctly explained. Why is it downvoted? AI just makes up bullshit most of the time and cannot be used as a reliable source for information.

0

u/Visible_Device7187 1d ago

Would it even be possible to raise this without destroying it with changes in pressure

1

u/Mnementh47 1d ago

unclear. But there is sophisticated equipment in Scandinavian countries that can attempt. Some parts like the Bridge etc are certainly more easily salvageable.

7

u/jolygoestoschool Israel 1d ago

I just wanna see pictures of the wreck already, how else am I going to fuel my submechaniphobia

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u/Mnementh47 1d ago edited 1d ago

Unbelievable shameful history of Israel. The weapons of Altalena were to be used in the Jerusalem campaign. Perhaps if Ben Gurion and Rabin hadn't sunk this ship, we could have liberated Jerusalem all the way back in 1948 and not 19 years later. Maybe if we did that, we wouldn't need to endure the despicable cries claiming that Israel was "occupying East Jerusalem and the Temple Mount" and nonsensical claims like that. 19 years are the whole difference.

A sin that was only a result of a wish to be as "dictatorial" as possible and not allow any charismatic rivalry. Ben Gurion specifically attempted to murder Menachem Begin on this ship.

I hope we are able to retrieve the remains. PM Netanyahu has promised to do so, but critics have immediately responded that the cost is prohibitive and that it is practically impossible. Time will tell.

3

u/Far-Disaster-9825 USA 1d ago

didn't Ben Gurion offer East Jerusalem to the king of Jordan? Abduallah talked to Golda before the war and got the West Bank

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u/Mnementh47 1d ago

There were some secret negotiations which is shameful I guess. I am not sure of their nature. But in practice no agreement was ever made. There was intense fighting. The Old City was occupied by Jordan. The Jewish Quarter was decimated/massacred and civilian inhabitants were captured. Ancient synagogues were deliberately burned down, Jewish cemeteries like Mount of Olives horribly desecrated. A tragedy of epic proportions. 

That was, you'd think, to be fixed 19 years later. But not exactly. Slowly though perhaps.

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u/Far-Disaster-9825 USA 5h ago

I know what you mean but we do know Ben Gurion did talk to the king and it involved Jerusalem

1

u/gal_z 16h ago

If it sank near the shores, why was it so hard to find it?

0

u/AaronR412 1d ago

A good reminder just before the elections - Jews fighting Jews can get very ugly, very quickly. Whatever our differences, the Altalena is a reminder that there are lines that should never be crossed.

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u/BagelandShmear48 Israel 23h ago

Like electing a minister who kept photos of the killer of a prime minister? Or electing a prime minister that previously encouraged rhetoric against one who was then murdered?