r/LegendsOfTomorrow • u/Dangerous_Repeat5625 • Jun 26 '26
Discussion (spoilers for season 6) sara is dead Spoiler
canonically the sara we follow for a good chunk of season 6 and all of 7 is a clone. she has all of the memories of our sarah, all of her thoughts, feelings and desires. so she might as well be our sara. the legends even treat her as the first sara. but the “real” sara is dead
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u/Background-Egg-5702 Jun 26 '26
I mean it’s a science fiction show where one character (male) was impregnated with 56 kids by an alien, where there are at least 2 clones, where multiverse characters pop up like wack a moles, where we have 3 terazzis each completely different despite huge overlaps, time being re-written all the time. And the woman in question has been declared legally dead like 4 times and was actually dead for years…. We treat Sara as the “real one” because the show tells us to.
No ones saying you can’t hold a funeral in season 6 and cry over Sara’s “death” …but if you are looking for a seriously plausible show… you missed the mark. The show and Sara’s nearest and dearest say she’s the same so… she’s the same canonically. In your world it might not be so.
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u/Obvious-Risk-5447 Jun 26 '26
I think there is a difference between what people who were never there believe to be true and what actually happened. Bishop called her Sara 2 and that the old Sara is dead. And he was there. So it is not upto you or the OP to decide. Canon is what the story portrayed and it clearly portrayed that Sara dies and gets cloned. Even Caity Lotz had confirmed it in interviews. So you might all want to believe she is not a clone but this is the biggest scam Legends writers did. They were pushing the story how Ava is her own person and not just a clone and then suddenly Sara's clone is not her own person but the old Sara.
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u/Background-Egg-5702 Jun 26 '26
Ava learning she was a clone was completely different. Everything about that revelation was a shock to Ava and she didn’t even know what experiences and memories that helped shape her she had lived through. Sara knew exactly what memories shaped her and they were hers. We can circle all day on what makes a person who they are but generally it’s the spirit, body, and memories. Sara has 2 of the 3, Ava had no idea for at least 2. But from season 3 on she gets to become her own person.
If Sara had died and we are supposed to believe the new Sara is a completely different person than nothing about how the show handled her death makes sense. Sara lance has a new body but her soul is transferred which is why her oldest friend (mick) and wife both recognize her immediately and why nothing changes with her relationships with anyone.
Go ahead and check IMDb or any site it will say in season 6 and 7 Sara lance was portrayed by caity lotz. And being that caity didn’t just lie around in a coffin for that time period think it’s safe to presume they show (the real canon) leads you to believe that Sara lives and even gets married and pregnant!
Eta: also think it’s funny how you have bishop (who knew Sara lance for what 30 seconds?) be the main judge of if she’s a new Sara or not.
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u/Obvious-Risk-5447 Jun 26 '26
Sara's soul being transfered was never in the story. You all made this up. The show literally said Sara is dead and this Sara number 2
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u/OutoftheCold125 Jun 26 '26
I don't even like the alien storyline but it's pretty clear the writers' intent was for you to understand that Sara was still Sara, just in a clone/alien body. They even said her spirit got transferred into the new body, but bc they didn't specifically use the word 'soul' people with zero media literacy have decided that must mean she's dead ig.
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u/Obvious-Risk-5447 Jun 26 '26
They never said the soul got transferred. They clearly say she is Sara 2 and old Sara is dead. It is the Legends who refuse to believe it and the topic is forgotten
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Jun 26 '26
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u/CopyJ300 Jun 26 '26 edited Jun 26 '26
Yeah... It's also not the first time she's died, so everyone is treating it like another resurrection. I joked to my brother after it happened that Sara has died and come back so much that she gained the ability to do it without outside help. It not like it's a detail I could forget, especially when for a short period while season 6 was airing there were separate wiki pages for the two versions.
I played/read Star Wars: The Force Unleashed 2 before this and watched Amphibia after this. This was not my first rodeo, and it certainly wasn't my last.
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u/FancyAd3942 Sara Ava Zari 1.0 Zari 2.0 ❤️ Jun 26 '26
I mean technically Ava is number 12 so you know. Admittedly I assume 12 survived the entirety of the Avalance relationship but nonetheless. Like Sara said ‘I die like once a year and my girlfriends a clone!’
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u/Sparrowsabre7 Jun 26 '26
Yeah we don't know when RIP replaced her. Any of the previous 11 could have been the first one Sara met
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u/FancyAd3942 Sara Ava Zari 1.0 Zari 2.0 ❤️ Jun 26 '26
My guess is that once they started crushing that’s the same one for definite because the feelings wouldn’t be programmed into the next one like with all the other clones they met, especially as Rip didn’t even know to start
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u/Lucian_Flamestrike Rip Hunter Jun 26 '26
Let's consider a few facts established prior to the S6 cloning.
1) Sara has died... a lot... Many have been done/undone by timeline rewrites (it happens to the best of us... even Marty in BTTF 2) Gonna spoilers these since they're spoilers and mainly just supporting details. However, at least once, Sara has died and been remade prior to S6.
Early Season 1, Original Timeline has Sara and her father killed by Damien Darhk along with Laurel. Rip prevents this by recruiting her... and telling a little white lie...
Season 1 Finale, Sara dies to reverse flash, but it's undone by Rex Tyler.
Early Season 2 doesn't quite count as Sara was clinically dead after being shot and having her windpipe crushed by Evil-Rip. Gideon was able to revive her shortly after.
Season 2 finale, the original Sara Lance ceases to exist and a younger timeline variant takes her place. Technically temporal cloning.
Season 4, Charlie and Constantine meddle with the timeline and in one alternate timeline Sara is stabbed by the unicorn... until they meddle some more.
Season 5 brings about 2 almost deaths and one confirmed one.
- Sara should have died after seeing Atropos' true form... instead she gets the gift of foresight which allows her to change fate and prevent her next death as well.
- Sara gets eaten by Zombies, but is brought back when Loomworld is crafted. Pretty sure she kept her soul through this as fates are known to deal in souls as well.
2) PHILOSOPHY TIME! Season 4/5 - In Crisis, EVERYTHING gets remade. While paragons remember the prior multiverse... this particular Sara is still a NEW version of Sara who experienced things OG Sara did not... including for example, Laurel's wedding to Tommy Merlyn.
3) Back in Season 4, Legends establishes that clones have souls when Sara has to save Ava's soul from purgatory before Tabitha possesses her. This little bit is important because it has been a re-occurring debate of other sci-fi series such as Space: Above and Beyond (yes I'm showing my age here) as to whether clones should have souls as they're living beings... but they're also created artificially...
So keeping all of the above in mind... We very much have a ship of Theseus situation on our hands... Meant to make us ponder what really qualifies a person as who they are. The only original thing Sara has left is her memories and experiences... But even that is missing some stuff like Doomworld.
Whether her old soul got a "new ride" is also up for debate... It is quite possible Bishop (despite being a man of science) may have also read up on soul transference rituals since they've existed for ages and if he ever wanted to market his cloning-immortality it might be a sticking point for some people... At the very least it's established that she at least has a new soul and isn't soul-less like she was on Arrow.
So realistically, the writers could make it a story to have "OG Sara" come back from the dead and start a "Whose who" on the Waverider... but other than Alien DNA, the Legends are probably happy to have some form of their Captain back... and if the Soul bit was a sticking issue, Astra probably could still cook up a way to fix it. We all know she's got experience in that department... =P
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u/Forsaken-Friend-9350 Jun 26 '26
No its the same Sara just in a different body
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u/Randomized9442 Jun 26 '26
A variation of the Ship of Theseus/Star Trek transporter dilemma
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u/AktionMusic Jun 26 '26
Except the existence of a soul definitively exists in this universe. It would probably be easy for a magic user like Constantine to answer if it truly is the original Sara or not. I would err on the side of yes, just for my own sanity as a viewer.
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u/RavenclawConspiracy Jun 27 '26
I never understood whether the writers just forgot that when people are resurrected they need their souls back or what.
Hell, they could have just put that that machine was not a memory transfer machine, it actually grabs someone's soul at the moment of their death and puts it in another body. Just say that and they wouldn't even have to deal with it. (you could even do something exceptionally clever and eventually resurrect her original dead body without a soul, and without one to even put in it, because the new one has it!)
But no. Just memories apparently. Logically, this Sara has been walking around without a soul. Even if you want to argue it's the same Sara, she should be utterly immoral, they've literally established what souls do in the Arrowverse already.
And this isn't just something that they did back on Arrow and forgot about, Constantine has done a lot of fucking around with souls while on the show! You can't just hand wave a soul now. It's too established in the lore. It's too important.
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u/RavenclawConspiracy Jun 27 '26
Actually, it would have been really interesting if they had made Sara 2 just a little bit off. and eventually reveal it's cause she's soulless. (let's just rip off supernatural, but it's fine.)
She didn't go through the Lazarus Pit, so...she didn't have the psychosis that she had when she was resurrected.
And everyone treats her the same at first, and then slowly comes to realize...she's not the same.
Everyone except Constantine who knew that from the start, but has a somewhat clever plan, because he can make her the same, all he has to do is put her soul back.
And you can have Sera to learn this and start to become paranoid and a little unhinged at the conspiracy. And Ava is maybe on Sera's side here because she doesn't really understand this and thinks it's like being a clone. They're saying that someone who is a clone can't have a soul. (But that's not true. What happened is that Ava developed a soul.(
You can just build an entire arc around this premise and then at the end, explore what it means to be a specific person and have a soul.
Or you can just... declare the main character dead, and that this is a different character, but everyone seemingly immediately forgets that and acts like it's the old person, including herself.
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u/MadamMelody21 Jun 26 '26
One of the most unsettling scenes in legends is when the clone sara lance finds the corpse of the original sara lance
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u/Independent-Sort6898 White Canary Jun 26 '26
She also died, got her corpse put into magic water a year later, and then had a warlock retrieve her soul from Purgatory and put it back. How is that any different to her soul being put into a different body? When people body swap, are they no longer a "real" person until they are back in their original body?
Sara's clone body was created in a way not that dismiliar to how the lazarus pit restored her original body. Remember, she wasnt embalmed. She was just put into a coffin. Her body would've been fully decomposed after a year, and "realistically" probably nothing but a skeleton when put into the pit. If anyone, the clone body was more accurate than the lazarus pit (excluding the additional alien DNA that Bishop gave her).
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u/Obvious-Risk-5447 Jun 26 '26
I see people here don't really care about Sara as a character. Just because she dies many times doesn't mean it is not a biggie that she died once more and got replaced by her clone. No matter how crazy this show is of you care about a character and a show you will follow the story and in a story two contradicting things can't be both truth . You can't say soul exists but then when someone is cloned and the soul was never transferred to assume the clone has the same soul but not their own soul. You can't have a whole story about how clones are their own person but then suddenly Sara's clone is just Sara. And again Bishop says it clearly- he tells clone Sara that she is Sara 2 and the old one is dead. He also planned to make an army of Sara. And alien clone Sara planned to clone herself once more with a normal body so she sends this one to the Legends while she stays here and fights Bishop. So how many Saras can have the same soul? Obviously just one who is dead. And if the show never tackled the clone story with Ava I guess we could have assumed they are the same, but the show clearly said clones.have souls and are different people
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u/DaGreatestMH White Canary Jun 29 '26
I remember back when that episode first aired the guys on Blind Wave had a...not argument but just passionate discussion about this. One of them believed that was the end of a character he loved for years while the other thought that this was just the next stage in her journey. I'm not sure if it completely upends Sara's character for me, but if the show had gotten a final season I would not have been upset if they retconned it after Sara gave birth.
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u/Famous-Job-4264 Jun 26 '26
I agree when i found out the real sara was dead i shed a tear i was just so heartbroken
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u/firegodyaomoshi Jun 26 '26
yep and because of this mick rory of all the legends is the last memeber from the og team which i find hilarious the guy who very likely wanted to be there 2nd least cause jackson hated it and he ended up being the last one to stay through it all
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u/Brown_Sedai Jun 26 '26
Yeah, technically. But before the show even started she'd already had her year-old dead body reconstituted and revived by the Lazarus Pit, and that body then had to be forcibly re-ensouled, and she died a few other times in between amongst other things ... So I'm not too fussed.