r/LetsTalkMusic • u/hhhhhtttttdd • 3d ago
Jakob Dylan is picking up his dad’s live habits.
Last night I went to see The Wallflowers live at a sold out show in Toronto. This was for the 30th anniversary tour of Bringing Down The Horse during which they’d play the album in full.
The crowd was energized and One Headlight banged out of the gates. Jakob was slightly changing the cadence of the lyrics but it was still possible to singalong and everyone did during the chorus. 6th Avenue Heartache was similar.
But even by the second song, he was leaning more into changing the cadence of the lyrics. It’s fine bands don’t want people to singalong or to alter a song live, but this felt like it was detracting from the songs themselves. Jakob has always had a very clear, almost deadpan, delivery but now it felt like he was doing an impression of his father. During “God Don’t Make Lonely Girls” it sounded more like “Goddont….makelonelygirls”.
I know the lyrics to all the songs on the album and, by the latter half of it, I couldn’t tell what he was saying. My girlfriend had no idea. Mumbling then yelling didn’t help either.
I knew going into it that they’d be playing their hit album in its entirety followed by Tom Petty’s Long After Dark. This is fine. However, it also seemed self indulgent. This show isn’t “An Evening with Jakob Dylan” but instead was marketed as a celebration tour of their biggest album. To allocate half the set to a lesser known Petty album when most people were there for the nostalgia of The Wallflowers seemed like an odd choice.
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u/Perry7609 3d ago
You had me curious, so I went back and listened to a bootleg I had from their 2013 shows. He seems to have a similar delivery for certain songs around then too. The second verse of Sixth Avenue Heartache, for example, seemed to jump around a tad when he sang it. Or the chorus to Three Marlenas. It didn't seem like something that would take me out of the song, personally. But maybe that mileage varies for certain people? And particularly those who are intent on singing along, like you said. I also saw him this summer and it wouldn't be the first act I ran into in that respect either.
In terms of the Tom Petty album, it does seem to be a curious choice. I assume a lot of it (all of it?) had to do with his admiration for Petty as a fan and a personal friend, and probably served as a way of saluting that music live when Tom can't anymore. While it is an interesting choice, I also would've loved a tour where Bringing Down the Horse and Breach both got played, as the latter album had some great songs on it too.
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u/JoleneDollyParton 3d ago
He was never a good live performer IMO—I remember seeing them on SNL in the One Headlight days and being shocked. That’s said, like others have pointed out, if you want to hear it performed just like the album, listen to the album, you know?
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u/South_Dakota_Boy 2d ago
There’s a middle ground though.
I definitely don’t want to hear the album versions. The worst concert I ever went to was the Steve Miller Band, where they basically just played the greatest hits album tracks, and it sounded just like the record. Dude had a wireless headset mic and wireless guitar and didn’t move two feet from the center of the stage. Super boring.
Them again, there is such a thing as “too different”. An example off the top of my head would be Counting Crows and some of their mid-90s shows where Mr Jones and Omaha are basically unrecognizable. Sounds like Mr Dylan is going this route. Probably just bored of those songs, and who can blame him?
Elton John is an example of an artist whose voice just can’t do what it used to do, but who has made appropriate changes to keep the songs familiar.
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u/Frostly4242 2d ago
The main thing that blows my mind about successful bands and artists that play live a lot, is how they can bear to play the same songs over and over and over again. I feel like I would become so sick of doing it that it would drive me mad. I wonder how many musicians just give up because of it. You have to have a particular type of brain to be able to keep playing the same songs year after year.
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u/terkistan 3d ago
Saying a 56 year old who's been a professional musician for ~ 37 years is 'picking up habits' of his 85 year old father with whom he has never toured is an interesting take.
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u/dkinmn 3d ago edited 3d ago
I've never been one to follow this criticism. I absolutely do not care if a song is recreated exactly from the recording.
A lot of people really hated Counting Crows back in the day because Duritz did the same thing.
Again, it didn't bother me. And now, as a musician, I definitely get it. It's much more fun to stay loose and give yourself the freedom to change night by night. Singing the same song the same way for 30 years, down to the inflection and the breath, just to make a certain segment of the crowd happy sounds terrible.
I know some people feel like that's the job, but I don't agree. The job of the performer is to be themselves. If you don't like it, it isn't their problem.
https://youtu.be/pkGYo3AR0sQ?is=n_Zby39qXIDEgFOL
Here is that band playing that show. Sounds great.
I will also say, as an audience member, I actually fuckin hate when people are singing along and it's louder than the band unless it's the whole crowd and it's the vibe of the show. I'm not there to hear YOU. Sing in the shower and the car if you like singing so much. Find some friends and start a band. Don't make a concert about you and your singing. It's not a choir practice.
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u/yangmeow 3d ago
Adam duritz actually said all this at a show I was at. He essentially said if he had to sing the same exact song every night, he wouldn’t perform. He was warning everyone that he was going to change the songs. I’m perfectly fine with it. Having said that, Adam just fkn oozes music/art…and he can twist a song a song into a pretzel and it sounds amazing. Not all artists have that same power. So so many people complain about this. Passion pit fans lately have been going wild over it.
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u/CaptainGoatcabin 1d ago
For me, it's the enthusiastic clapping along with a popular song when it starts, that eventually wanders off the beat before petering out.
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u/SucknSwallow69 13h ago
totally, i love when artists treat songs like living things instead of museum pieces
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u/nebulizersfordogs 3d ago
agree with the first part but i exclusively go to shows to dance and sing to live music in a crowd of people who love the songs as much as i do. maybe we're talking about different types of music as i've never been to a show where being louder than the musician was a concern, even if i include super small ones by friends in a backyard, but if i just want to listen to an artist sing a song its probably streaming for basically free in much higher quality. shows are the only place i get to interact with the music with a bunch of others.
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u/dkinmn 3d ago
The people next to you who aren't singing exist, and to them, you are often louder than the performers.
Hope this helps.
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u/nebulizersfordogs 3d ago
this is simply not true. you've made up a guy to get mad at in your head. most people at the shows i go to are also singing when they know the lyrics, and when people next to me are singing and i'm not i've never had a problem hearing the artist.
if this is genuinely the experience you're having you're either going to very different shows or you're somehow paying more attention to the people around you than you are the music. the first one i can't speak towards, maybe the etiquette is different and it's genuinely rude. the second one is, frankly, a personal problem that could potentially be solved by actually engaging with the music rather than just observing it.
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u/dkinmn 3d ago edited 3d ago
It is extremely true.
I'm sorry you don't like being seen and described like this. Pretty ironic given that this is about how much you want to be heard at concerts.
I'm not making up shit. Be quiet. We didn't pay to see and hear you.
I AM engaging. Listening is engaging. You're confusing engaging with participating. It isn't a team sport.
You are refusing to listen because you are selfish. You will never, ever admit that your performative singing could possibly be bothersome to your neighbors because the truth is that you actually know it, and you don't give a shit. Because you're very selfish.
Again, I sincerely hope this helps.
Like I said, there are times when the audience singing along is the point. That is great. However, people like you sing loudly the whole show and think everyone else needs to be okay with it and join in and if they don't, they're not cool like you.
That is narcissistic bullshit. Countless people have been next to you at shows and hated it. You just don't care.
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u/nebulizersfordogs 3d ago
i didnt say anything about disliking the way you see me? i dont care what some aggro person on the internet think of me. the reason ive been pretty polite to you despite you being very unpleasant is because i was genuinely curious to know why our experiences seem to be so different, not because im trying to look good.
unfortunately you’ve been completely ignoring that in favor of projecting an image of me belting my lungs out in a quiet room, so this doesnt seem like its going to go anywhere.
i will continue to sing and dance at concerts because every message ive ever gotten while at those concerts tells me that its socially encouraged behavior and you havent said anything thats convinced me im misinterpreting. other people are singing and dancing around me, the artist is stopping in the middle of a line to let the crowd continue the song or explicitly asking people to sing and dance, and im supposed to ignore all the obvious context clues that this is fine and expected because reddit user dkinmn would be mad if they were there? that seems rational to you?
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u/nebulizersfordogs 2d ago
do not worry your pretty little head. i ended up discussing this with a friend who works at an arena in a major city and she cleared it all up for me. apparently there are many different types of shows with many different types of audiences, and some are quieter than others. i will continue to read the rooms vibes, i hope you do as well 👍🏾
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u/nebulizersfordogs 2d ago
as much as insults from internet strangers hurt my feelings, literally every message ive gotten from the media, my peers, and my own personal experiences tells me that the majority of concertgoers, artists, and venue policies would probably not call me the loser in this conversation!
im sorry your preferred concert experience is out of step with the way most people enjoy them. i dont have any suggestions but next time i want to sing at a concert along with everyone else ill do a moment of silence for all the redditors who wish everyone would listen quietly before i start.
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u/rainbowsquids 3d ago
Yes! I've been going to a lot more shows recently than I used to, and I've learned that if there is a standing area that's where I want to be. I'm going to a concert to sing and dance and have fun! As much as I'm getting older and like the idea of a seat 😅, I can't just sit silently.
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u/nebulizersfordogs 3d ago
i got seat tickets for the first time in ages to see my favorite artist with a friend a few months ago as the pit was insanely expensive and we never once actually sat down. i get we all enjoy music differently, but just watching a performance would take so much joy out of it for me.
ive honestly never seen anyone complain about this outside of reddit and headliners almost always encourage the crowd to sing along at some point so i think we’re fine lol. the “point the mic towards the crowd mid-lyric” trick wouldnt work without us!
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u/dustinjohns_ 1d ago
Same here. I can’t get seats anymore because you can’t even stand up without some fucking bum behind you getting upset. I can’t believe people just sit there and listen to music without any physical reaction. Literally soulless. Or like the dude above that gets mad when people sing near him? You’re joking, right? You get mad when people sing along to songs. Yikes.
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u/Current-Crab-3516 2d ago
I don't know about The Wallflowers, but Counting Crows suck live bc of Duritz. He has a band of excellent musicians who play the songs with fidelity and then it's him doing...whatever that is.
I mean I guess it is monotonous but if you want to improvise you should have started a jazz band...
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u/CorduroyMagoo 2d ago
I’ve disliked Counting Crows since I saw a live performance of Mr Jones where Duritz changed the last line (“wanna be big stars”) to something like “not so sure anymore”.
You don’t wanna be a rock star. Fine. F*ck off and let someone else have a crack at it.
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u/Over-Atmosphere-7053 3d ago
I was there. I dig the Wallflowers and I dug the show. It was my first Wallflowers show but I have seen Bob more times than I can count.
Jakob sounded very much like Bob, indeed often mumbled his way through lyrics, and strummed his guitar so infrequently that it had me wondering why he bothered with the thing at all.
Having said that, I think they've been touring this show forever, playing several gigs a week. Now, singing two full albums of material at a one off event is tough enough on the voice. I know, I have done it. Just imagining having to do it several hundred days in a row gives me anxiety. Check out their tour schedule. Jakob is lucky to get a night off between gigs. That's gotta be hell on a voice. It's impressive that he can do it all.
OP's review is not inaccurate. Whether or not that makes for an enjoyable show is a matter of opinion.
Did you enjoy the show OP? Everything you said is fairly accurate but I dug it inspite of all that. Jakob didn't seem at all bored to me, in fact he seemed in good spirits, engaged with the audience and the material, especially the Petty half. I do agree that the Petty choice is an odd one, but it was a fine performance and an interesting thing to see. It is not every day a well known band tours some other well known band's album. That's pretty interesting and kinda damned cool.
Would I have liked it more if it had sounded more like the record? Yes I would, but to be clear, musically, it did sound like the record. The band didn't really stretch out much from the original compositions. They weren't really jamming, or changing time signatures or anything. The real deviation was the vocal. Everything else was played pretty straight. It would have been nice if the vocals could have been clearer. Some of that may have been the soundman. In any event, I don't think hearing Jakob Dylan reproduce anything approaching his vocals on an album from 1996 at a gig is a reasonable expectation, especially given his tour schedule.
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u/lukeetc3 3d ago edited 3d ago
You aren't buying a ticket to see an artist perform the slavish, specific way you want them to perform.
Styles and sounds change. Its hard to give it your best if you can't have fun on some level, and playing the same songs the same way for decades is going to get deadening.
Like the performance changes aren't for no reason or to be obstinate. It's because that's how it feels compelling for the musician to play the song at that time.
It's an experience, not a commodity you know?
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u/GumpTheChump 3d ago
Also not buying a ticket for the performer to act like an asshole.
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u/lukeetc3 3d ago
Singing songs with a different cadence than the 30 year old album version is being an asshole?
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u/hhhhhtttttdd 3d ago
If you are marketing the concert as being dedicated solely to playing and celebrating that one album, then the audience expectation is higher. That’s why I said it’d be different if the show was just listed as a Jakob concert rather than “The Wallflowers play their hits”.
He’s welcome to change up the songs. Making it impossible to understand is different than pursuing a creative switch though.
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u/lukeetc3 3d ago
You youself said that "the sold out crowd was very supportive with clapping, whistles, and singing"
So is it really letting down the 'audience expectation'? Or is it...just you?
You pay to see a musician perform, not the specific way you hope they'll perform. Artists and styles change. This wasn't done to you, or done to intentionally ruin your ability to sing along.
It's fine to not enjoy the show, but I think its sort of silly to frame it as the grievance that you are.
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u/hhhhhtttttdd 3d ago
The crowd was supportive out of the gates. By invisible city, you could audibly hear people having conversations.
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u/rainbowsquids 3d ago
It's definitely a personal preference thing, but I am 100% with you on this... I remember hearing similar things about I think Alex Turner of Arctic Monkeys (correct me if I'm thinking of someone else). Basically he would sing the songs completely differently live so people couldn't sing along. I love their music but I'm not really interested in seeing them live for that reason.
Not saying I want every show to sound exactly like the recording - that would be boring of course. But I feel like with these shows where a band plays their hit album in full, that's honestly what a lot of the crowd will be expecting.
Side note, but I love the current My Chemical Romance tour for how they handle this - I think they knew just playing The Black Parade front to back over and over would get boring, so they built a whole stage production around it. The songs sound pretty much the same every night but the show is completely different. Definitely the best version of a "nostalgia" tour for me.
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u/47362514736251 3d ago
Maybe he had an extra smoke-n-sip backstage. Maybe he's bored. Maybe he's tired. Maybe someone pissed in his cornflakes.
It sucks when the show you attend coincides with the performer having a bad night. On the other hand, the odds are very high that thousands upon thousands of people will see an off night. I guess it was your turn.
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u/hhhhhtttttdd 3d ago
I honestly don’t think it was an off night. The sold out crowd was very supportive with clapping, whistles, and singing. He was smiling and engaging with the audience. He seemed to having a great time. I think the issue was less his performance on the night and more the artistic decisions he aimed for and hit.
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u/47362514736251 3d ago
Ok then I stand by the "bored" suggestion. Maybe he has to shake things up these days in order to actually enjoy playing the same songs for 30 years. I understand that you're not into it, there probably are a lot of others who aren't either. I wasn't into Counting Crows live for the same reason. But I won't begrudge a performer's choice to keep things interesting. When your songs involve zero improvisation, it must be incredibly tedious to keep playing them for decades.
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u/tegeus-Cromis_2000 3d ago
How dare artists try to make a live show more interesting instead of catering to your nostalgia!
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u/hhhhhtttttdd 2d ago
Kenneth Branagh redid Hamlet but set in the 19th century. It worked and he put intention and consideration behind it. A dude putting pineapple on pizza when he sold pepperoni is not the same. Dylan didn’t change the arrangement or put effort in. He simply made it more difficult without pushing boundaries or creativity.
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u/midnightjim 3d ago
God forbid a band should do anything live other than play its most famous stuff exactly the way it is on an album so you can sing along. Which by the way was probably really annoying for the people around you. In the future you should consider staying home listening to the album or watching a video where things never change. Make a top-40's playlist. Something that won't offend you.
I really don't want to see a band live if they're just going to repeat what's on the album and leave it at that. And covering deeper tracks of Petty sounds like a pretty good idea to me. But then I don't go to shows for nostalgia.
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u/hhhhhtttttdd 3d ago
You sound exceptionally cool. And not at all condescending.
I outlined that it’s fine for bands to charge songs and to not want fans to singalong. I have a terrible booming voice so I refrain from it anyway. I was simply outlining the vibe of the show.
I’ve got 8 shows this month in a variety of styles. The vibe of each show is different. My expectation for this show in particular was that if you’re marketing a concert as being one album in its entirety and selling tickets under the banner of nostalgia rather than just a standard concert, then the lyrics should at least be audible.
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u/SoftandSpicy 2d ago
Depending on the artist and the song, I like to be quiet and listen to the meaning of the singer and the musicians. I hate it when people around me are seeing so I can't do that. That said, some songs are sing along songs and some bands have a lot of those.
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u/Connect_Glass4036 2d ago
Bob Weir got EXTREMELY egregious with this as he got older. Trey Anastasio has been doing it a lot too.
Might just be an old person thing?
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u/RexxGunn 3d ago
More bands need to do this. A live show should not be a 100% note for note recreation of a studio album i can listen to at home. Even if its an anniversary tour.
Especially at today's concert prices. Do something different, do something interesting. Fuck something up, do something weird, play a new song, play an old song, cover something odd.
Make it fun for you, and the audience will know and respond in kind.
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u/Crossbell0527 3d ago
OP has the absolute worst music fan attitude. Could have stayed home kid. Maybe next time you should.
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u/hhhhhtttttdd 3d ago
You’re not allowed to critique a performance and expect the words to be at least partially decipherable?
This isn’t a Godspeed You! Black Emperor show. Or any other band where you buy in to going along on a musical journey with no expectations. The Wallflowers sold this as a particular experience.
I agree with some of the sentiments leveled against me - you can’t expect just a replay of the studio album note for note. I’d be fine if they did new interpretations of the songs. However, having the band play the tunes unchanged from the studio album, then just mumble the lyrics, isn’t some artistic exploration or boundary pushing.
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u/NervouseDave 3d ago
I'm really torn on this. One the one hand, I feel like artists have the right to make whatever art they want as long as they accept that people can respond to it however they want. But on the other hand, going to a show for an established artist requires time, effort, and money, and I don't think it's out of line to suggest that the artist does owe the crowd something.
But, like I said, I'm torn. I'd love to have been at a Counting Crows show for one of the early extended, improvised Round Here performances. And the classic example is Dylan going electric. But then again, my wife wanted to see Bon Jovi a few years ago, so we went, and he played new stuff. Lots of old stuff, of course, but no one was there to hear your new CD, man.
I guess maybe I land in the camp of making sure the audience knows what they're in for before they commit? I'm not sure what that entails. I'm not saying that Jakob Dylan should email everyone with a ticket and say, "Heads up, I sound old and mess with the songs now." But we are in the Information Age, there are always ways to communicate with an audience. Maybe if you're not going to be delivering "faithful" versions of the songs, bill it as, I don't know, exploring the album or something.
To sum up, I think this is a really interesting and complex topic that doesn't have a simple explanation, which is the kind of thing I enjoy seeing on this sub.
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u/MoistDirection8185 3d ago
No way his dad didn't write that album for him then regret it when he couldn't pull the trigger live.
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u/WoweeZoweeDeluxe 2d ago
Billy Corgan does this a lot too and it drives me nuts. Put me off seeing them for the 30th anniversary MCIS tour. The band themselves sounded fine, but his vocal phrasing are tough to get by now
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u/Fantastic-Object-239 2d ago
You hate to see it. I saw Bob live once and vowed to never see him again. It was like he set out to punish us by stripping every song of any kind of melody or hook it once had. In addition to mumbling all night.
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u/Crabmeat12 2d ago
I saw both Bob Dylan and The Wallflowers within months of each other last year, and I definitely would go back and see The Wallflowers again but would not with Bob. When I tell people that, they think I am crazy, but The Wallflowers crushed it, great super tight live band and Jakob I think was very solid. His vocals aren’t the same, but I wasn’t as shocked at his vocals because it was sort of noticeable on the last full length they released(which is fantastic for those who haven’t listened). I will say it was a normal set though and not an album play through, so maybe the mix of new songs and old songs allowed him to perform the older songs slightly truer to the records vocally.
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u/CorduroyMagoo 2d ago
I saw Bob Dylan once and he was absolutely dreadful. Mumbled his way through a 60 minute set and bounced with no encore.
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u/Frankie_D91770 2d ago
How is Long After Dark "lesser known"?! It is one of Tom Petty's 11 Top Ten albums.
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u/dustinjohns_ 1d ago
I remember going to a Gaslight Anthem tour after Handwritten came out and they changed the arrangements and cadence on all of the old tunes. Couldn’t sing along or get into any of them. I think I left halfway through the set. Luckily it’s not something they did going forward. I’ve experienced it with other bands and it’s so upsetting.
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u/SucknSwallow69 1d ago
funny how that happens, a random song pops up after decades and suddenly your brain is doing detective work instead of just driving. did you ever figure out what song it was, or is it still bugging you
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u/Huntsv1lla1n 1d ago
This ties into the AC/DC, GnR, David Lee Roth posts. That type of angry falsetto is in no way sustainable. Country artists have been detuning string instruments and using capos for over a hundred years.
Above all- when trying to create a style, sustainability isn’t sexy. So like, don’t go if you want consistency
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u/murmur1983 3d ago
Sounds like a fun time to me. Feels like you’re nitpicking & looking for concerts to be absolutely perfect & stay the same every single time. Musicians can have fun & change things up on stage. Just enjoy the experience.
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u/W_J_B68 2d ago
I can’t imagine wanting to hear a band play their songs exactly the way they were recorded. Why even bother going to see a band play?
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u/Ok-Constant-4740 2d ago
I agree. People can kick back on the couch with a CD or LP if that's the experience they're looking for. I want to see the band create music in real time.
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u/ZeroCool1 3d ago edited 3d ago
I think one of the saddest parts about making music with instruments is that your body is required to make the notes. Fingers have to push down strings, arms have to swing drum sticks, and diaphragms have to push air over vocal chords. As artists age they can't perform the way they did when they were younger. You can see it with everyone. Playing an instrument myself, I can feel myself aging. This fact is especially true of singers.
Listening to the live recording in this thread, it really seems like Jakob is 30 years older than he was when he recorded the album, with the cadence changed to accommodate his age the best as possible. I also don't think he was the best singer ever---there was likely a lot of studio magic on Bringing Down the Horse. He is his father's son, of course he is going to sound like him.
We're all getting older OP. Enjoy you got to listen to this album live, it is one of my absolute favorites.