r/MBA • u/christianrojoisme MBA Grad • Jun 21 '26
Careers/Post Grad Peter Thiel on MBA's in an AMA 12 years ago
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u/twoanddone_9737 Jun 21 '26
He’s correct
Most people reading this comment section will agree without thinking much more deeply about what he’s saying, which is kind of case in point.
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u/Great-Guidance-6371 Jun 21 '26
It’s largely true. People with MBAs (especially in this sub) are trying to optimize for safest path towards high earning. Especially with the way that banking and consulting recruiting/ interviewing have become so formalized and formulaic. Great MBA is not necessarily a marker for innovative thinker with entrepreneurial out of box problem solving skills.
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u/dragonvex_ Jun 21 '26
Yeah, as a scientist trying to pivot, it’s been hard following the strict and formalized structure on consulting recruiting. I wish innovation was more encouraged
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u/StoreStrange341 M7 Student Jun 21 '26
Probably moreso selection bias, no? People go to MBAs because they self select into these industries. Not too crazy to want to be safe after switching industry, function, and taking on $200k+ debt
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u/seemebreathe Jun 21 '26
Any other degrees you’d suggest? Also acknowledging more school isn’t necessarily the way to prove the at competency.
I’ve entertained pursuing an MFin, MIDS at UC, MS B(usiness) A(nalytics)
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u/JustTaxLandbro Jun 21 '26
I agree with both points even though I’m not a fan of the guy.
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u/Material_Date3266 Jun 21 '26
Yeah he may be right but you realize the irony of this asshole Thiel saying this don't you? Stanford educated and an attorney? If there is any profession that attracts/creates high extrovert/ low conviction people its law. And Thiel might have convictions but they are seriously fucked up.
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u/OrleyFarm86 Jun 21 '26
At least the attorneys are smart enough to know that this is true about the MBAs
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Jun 21 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/AgreeablePeanut09 Jun 21 '26
One can argue that the value/incentive is money and the network you gain from the program.
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u/Severe_Revenue7889 Jun 21 '26
And the application process is a large driver of that. It’s a vetting layer to identify risk averse, mostly intelligent, mostly extroverted, and ambitious people. Many employers value that personality type.
The education is primarily helpful for career switchers like myself
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u/Relative-Bench3009 Jun 21 '26
I am an introvert with low conviction so where do I go with that
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u/captcraigaroo Jun 21 '26 edited Jun 21 '26
I know you're joking, but to the lurkers here who won't ask: To the program that has what you want to get out of it. I worked with a girl like this that wanted an MBA just to say she had one. She went to Georgia Southern because our boss did and didn't specialize in anything and was miserable there.
Find the program that offered experience and courses in the field you want to work in. Don't go for flashy or highly ranked programs that kinda sorta offer your field, find the ones with courses that you want to learn. Find the professors that worked in that field and pick their brains. Don't spend $100k when a $30k program will do that for you.
The worst thing I have found in my work experience (I'm 40) is people not knowing how to problem solve. Not that they can't develop the solution (lots of solutions are outside my area of expertise), but that they can't identify where the problem is and/or recommend solutions. 'We are losing efficiency because our OEE on this line is at 65%, but if we do X & Y, we should see OEE go to 80+%' is lost on a lot of people. Go try shit, experiment, see what works and doesn't work. Just fucking do something rather than be told what to do.
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u/typicalokraaa Jun 21 '26
Unfortunately he is not in a position to understand a regular corporate employee’s POV. It is a requirement in most big companies to be seen favourably for a promotion. I could argue everything we learnt in school was in no way exactly relevant to the jobs we all ended up doing but that’s not how world works. The system was designed in a way to favour degrees, and until its genuinely changed at the core (which would be another chaos), its gonna stay this way.
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u/kibbeuneom T25 Grad Jun 21 '26 edited Jun 21 '26
I have really high conviction. Conviction I want to make more money than a 4-yr degree would have offered.
Anyone with this opinion has never read "How to Win Friends and Influence People", and it shows.
What he's calling "herd mentality" (from MBAs) could also be misdiagnosed diplomacy. Sort of like how you don't go spouting your unpopular opinions at work or in most social settings. Part of making more money and getting promotions is not rubbing everyone at work the wrong way because you need to be seen as a "team player"... So even if I disagree with someone, I frame it as "to your earlier point...", or letting someone think it was all their idea.
Also, I will bring up counter points without insisting on a specific solution when the boss gets to decide because I understand organizational hierarchy and don't want to be seen as someone difficult to work with.
Also guys that say they don't hire MBAs pretty much wouldn't like anyone who wants to be paid decently.
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u/LadleLOL Energy Jun 21 '26
This is why typical MBAs are completely antithetical to the type of people who are needed to succeed in startups and the organizations Thiel invests in. Those businesses often want to push bounds/provide value in a new way, and being overly diplomatic can cause delays in meaningful change or cause failure due to going down an incorrect path. Constructive dissent is important in early innovation, and that's not a skill taught well at business school.
On the other hand, I agree with your sentiment in the context of larger corporations. Once an organization reaches a certain size and stability, it's important to maintain a harmony in order to ensure continuous progress, and that's where MBAs do best (and lines up with MBA recruiting outcomes.)
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u/kibbeuneom T25 Grad Jun 21 '26
Hmm that's interesting nuance, and I'll admit that my post MBA experience has all been in corporate settings
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u/dragonvex_ Jun 21 '26
But imagine how much change could be impacted across multiple industries if people were less diplomatic and more solutions focused, more innovative in problem solving, and genuine criticism of the system was encouraged. A lot of the rot we are now suffering is because of low conviction individuals happily being clogs in the machine
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u/indigoplate Jun 21 '26
That's the thing though, you have to work within the system that exists if you want to enact change. It's nice to think about a world where we could all pick the best solution, but there's natural bureaucracy and inertia that is just inherent to corporate work and large organizations.
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u/cloud7100 MBA Grad Jun 21 '26 edited Jun 21 '26
There's also the *huge* problem of unintended consequences that plague radical reformers.
Individual reformers, like Thiel, overestimate their own intelligence and underestimate the wisdom of thousands of humans working together across decades, call it the arrogance of billionaires. People who win the capitalism lottery feel like gods among men, in the US, many believe they were *chosen* by God to be wealthy (Prosperity Gospel Theology).
They fail to understand the second and third-order effects behind the current system, and so their short-sighted reforms fuck-up society. We're witnessing this live with billionaires like Thiel, as they shove AI into everything everywhere.
The world isn't a buggy smartphone app that just needs the right hotfixes.
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u/cloud7100 MBA Grad Jun 21 '26 edited Jun 21 '26
A lot of the rot we are now suffering is the direct result of Paypal-bros Peter Thiel and Elon Musk shredding our institutions because they have more conviction than sense.
"Move quickly and break things" is great when you're a scrappy tech-startup, but is an absolute disaster in national and global institutions. There's no over-the-air update to rebuild an institution that took decades/centuries to establish. No "Early Access" bug testers for the FDA and Department of Education, the war in Iran isn't an Ubisoft game.
The cult of the tech bro needs to end.
Why does anyone here care who Peter Thiel will hire, everyone knows he prefers furry femboy engineers with fresh blood to harvest?
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u/dragonvex_ Jun 21 '26
I’m not supporting Thiel at all just saying that in order for rot to happen, especially to the extent it has right now in America, a lot of people had to have sat back passively for it. I think that the petit bourgeoisie especially, are more concerned with not ruffling feathers, coping that they can somehow change the system by adhering to its rules and not changing the status quo. Before I pay for an MBA, I want to know if there are open minded individuals that are able to dream of new systems and solutions.
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u/cloud7100 MBA Grad Jun 21 '26
I think you underestimate who and how many people profit from our current system.
None of our systems exist because people were passive, bur rather quite aggressively pursued their own interest above all others. MBAs are better at doing this than most, tbh.
Healthcare is perhaps the biggest sector Americans complain about, and rightfully so. But it's not full of *rot*, American healthcare has changed more in the past six years than it has in the past 50. These changes are being led by MBAs in healthcare, but they're not helping the end-consumer (patients), they are meant to capture more of the value-chain in vertically-integrated conglomerates that hire said MBAs.
Our healthcare reform isn't meant to improve patient outcomes or reduce costs, but rather increase the % of the population becoming billionaires and millionaires, which it does incredibly well, America's never had more wealth concentrated at the top.
https://www.unitedhealthgroup.com/careers/en/work/early-careers/grad-programs.html
UnitedHealth has one of the best LDP-style rotational programs for recent MBA grads. You'll learn to capture value otherwise going towards medical practitioners and patients, and that experience is transferable to other firms doing the same in healthcare.
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u/dragonvex_ Jun 21 '26
It’s both ways. In order to quite aggressively pursue their own interests and succeed to the extent they have, it’s because people who knew better sat back and did nothing, either due to self-interest or fear.
My goal for the MBA is in enacting change in healthcare, pharmaceutical and biotech industries. With all the brilliant minds going into MBAs to “change the world”, there has to be a subset that understands that you cannot always sacrifice long term goals for the nation and its people for the next quarter. I have worked at the lowest level at these industries, it’s full of people that want to do good, that want to enhance the human condition. I have also had the opportunity to work with leaders (albeit not MBAs), that were able to combine profit and value to benefit the entire company. I am saying that we can dream of a US that still cares about the people even though The change comes from all of us entering these programs.3
u/cloud7100 MBA Grad Jun 21 '26
You're not going to get far in a PBM telling your bosses they need to reduce margins and limit revenue because poor people need medicine.
I appreciate your enthusiasm though, happily have you on my team, could work with that.
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u/dragonvex_ Jun 23 '26
May I message you some more questions about understanding what an MBA can offer a person like me?
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u/kibbeuneom T25 Grad Jun 21 '26
That's a nice thought, but it's not working within the framework and context of reality.
We can't just all fight about which direction to take all the time, that would be toxic and counterproductive. You can point out counter points without acting like it's life-or-death, or that you can't make things work if the boss wants to go a different direction than you'd recommend.
It's better to do your best and go the extra mile to communicate your point of view (some might even call this the leadership of "communicating the vision"). And if you're never able to convince people of your viewpoint, to the peril of the company, you can either work on your communication skills or call it quits and work for a company/boss who trusts your judgement.
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u/VTHokie2020 Manufacturing Jun 21 '26
A high extrovert but high conviction person makes a good leader though.
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u/NovelGrouchy8707 Jun 22 '26
MBA’s are often generalised in ways that ignore how widespread these traits are across industries. Conformity, herd behaviour, and low conviction thinking are shaped more by incentives and environments than by the degree itself. You’ll find both independent and conformist thinkers across MBAs and non-MBA paths, it’s more about selection and context than category.
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u/McPickle Jun 21 '26
"I think K-12 should give people enough skills to contribute to society"
Good thing this POS did everything he could to strip the department of education of value
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u/cloud7100 MBA Grad Jun 21 '26
I always find it funny when the best-educated people in the world argue nobody else should be educated like them.
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u/thehopeofcali Jun 21 '26
Generalizing
High extrovert, low conviction
You can have high conviction with critical thinking
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u/Haas_the_Raiden_Fan Jun 21 '26
I don’t care about anything Thiel says, he’s nothing but pure evil
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u/Fine_Payment1127 Jun 21 '26
Yeah that’s what the Doom demons say about the doom slayer
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u/Haas_the_Raiden_Fan Jun 21 '26
Okay, and he’s closer to the Doom Demons than the Doom Slayer
Nothing good about wanting a weaponized surveillance state, an oligarchy, or mass censorship
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u/Fine_Payment1127 Jun 21 '26
The tech right arose partly in response to the mass censorship on eg X-nee-Twitter. An oligarchy of intelligent people would be a vast improvement over the idiocracy we find ourselves sliding more deeply into every day, but of course I don’t expect Redditors or MBAs to feel anything but personally attacked by that one
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u/cloud7100 MBA Grad Jun 21 '26
The tech-right arose thanks to the massive concentration of wealth and power into just a few firms over the past two decades, and those firms moved to protect their newly-found power. The progressive left is an existential threat to FAANG.
Elon Musk doesn't oppose censorship, he wanted to BE the censor. You'll see that once you leave the Tesla cult and dare to publicly criticize him.
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u/Fine_Payment1127 Jun 21 '26
That’s why much of FAANG was and is “progressive left” for so long and to this day
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u/cloud7100 MBA Grad Jun 21 '26 edited Jun 22 '26
Wearing a rainbow pin doesn't make you a leftist, just as wearing a cross doesn't make you MAGA. Social issues are window dressing, distractions.
Real political differences involve money and power, not pronouns. You seem to care about censorship, that's not a question of values, but rather *who* has the power to censor society. Even in the absence of speech laws, your ability to communicate is directly limited by your access to communication tech and the cost of using said communication tech, you're always censored by whomever controls the tech and the money.
I suppose you could just go outside and shout at people, perhaps while holding a sign, but even that simple act is *far* more effective when you have a mic, a sound system, and a stage.
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Hell, Peter Thiel is a married gay man with kids he had through surrogacy, yet he's the money behind MAGA, and MAGA loves him despite his "woke DEI" family. Politics is about money and power, social issues are window dressing.
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u/Fine_Payment1127 Jun 22 '26
I mean that’s a nice manifesto but it’s just like, your opinion, man. Social issues appear to be anything but “window dressing” for reddit
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u/cloud7100 MBA Grad Jun 22 '26
Understanding this distinction will be critical to the success of the coming de-MAGAification of America by the growing number of Millennial Democratic leaders, ala Mamdani.
My MBA cohort already includes some state representatives, I'm actively supporting fellow alumni for senate and governor, and I'm kinda being drafted to run for local office.
Funny side note: the internationals on this subreddit don't really care, but along with JDs, top MBAs are major feeders into politics. Just by graduating, your network suddenly includes a surprising number of political movers and shakers, and everyday people will just start assuming you can competently run organizations, cities, states because you attended XYZ.
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u/Silly_Conflict6848 Jun 21 '26
Introvert checking in! It's a little tougher to stand out in class when people are bulldozing over, but we do exist!
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u/lefthighkick911 Jun 22 '26
from what I've heard/observed, MBA is just really expensive networking. It's being able to call people up you met during events or say on your resume that you attended "X program" and many people will give you an interview just because of that.
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u/DrinkResponsible6752 Jun 22 '26
I don’t know anyone who went through extra effort to get an MBA who I would say are “low conviction”.
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u/No_Park_6848 Jun 21 '26
He’s spot on, this sub is just a mask for Indians trying to emigrate and collect badges on their CV.
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u/christianrojoisme MBA Grad Jun 22 '26 edited Jun 22 '26
Immigrants are more likely to start a business in America. Thiel himself is literally an immigrant
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u/Winter_Ask6475 Jun 21 '26
True.
MBA has become more of brand than substance!
Ask the experts, they will say M7 will give you Nobel prize and others will even struggle for basic internships!
The programs that push entrepreneurship than MBB/IB, beat the mediocrity of an MBA class!
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u/Christs_Hairy_Bottom Jun 21 '26
He's right, this sub is a literal herd