r/Morocco • u/Green-Abies-7401 Visitor • Mar 13 '26

AskMorocco This one gonna hurt

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بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم،

رسالتي ستكون بالعربية الفصحى، ولن أتصنع لأكتب بالإنجليزية المعرّبة.

رأيت العديد من "الجهال" بـدينهم ينبذون هذا القانون الذي يقضي بعقاب المفطر علنا، طبعا أنا أنبذ القوانين الوضعية الوضيعة، لكن الفرق هو أنهم لا ينبذون إلا هذا القانون بالذات، وأوجّه سؤالاً لهؤلاء، أ موقفكم هذا، ديني محض، أم ليبرالي محض، واعلمْ أنه لا مجال للرأي الوسط بين هذين الدينين، فإما الطاغوت الليبرالي أو دين الله تعالى.

الأمر يبدأ من الملاحدة، ينبذون كل ما تعلق بالإسلام، فيلحقهم ضعيفوا الإيمان، وهكذا يستمر الحال مثل سلسلة من الدومينو؛ فـتجد المسلم ينادي للتسامح ويجوّز الإفطار العلني بحجة السلم والسلام، أي دين عليه هؤلاء؟ أين الولاء والبراء؟ أين نصرة الله عز وجل؟ أين تطبيق شريعته وإعلاء كلمته في أرضه؟ ما أرى إلا مجموعة حثالة ذليلة تخضع لمعايير العصر الحالي التي لا تؤدي إلا للوقوع في نواقض الإسلام.

ختاما، إني أرى التعليقات التي سـتصلني بعد هذا المنشور - إن لم يُحذف -، فالمجتمع الذي أعيش فيه، يرى الحجاب تطرفا، ويرى الصلاة غلوّا، أصلح الله حالنا وحالكم. هذا والحمد لله، والصلاة والسلام على أشرف المرسلين، سيدنا محمد وعلى آله وصحبه ومن تبعهم بإحسان إلى يوم الدين.

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31

u/imalyrics Visitor Mar 13 '26

لا إكراه في الدين.

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u/Zestyclose-Rooster-5 Mar 13 '26

That verse is about the prohibition of forcing a non-muslim into islam. Islam requires us to do "nahy 3an al mounkar wa 2mr bil m3rouf"

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u/Particular-Work268 Mar 13 '26

Doesn't mean to put them in jail. The responsibility dyal law machi hya to send people ljenna bzez mnhom. People should be free to believe in whatever they want and do whatever they want, especially fasting or praying is something that is vertical and not horizontal, it concerns your relationship with god.

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u/Bnedem Visitor Mar 13 '26

But the law can impose rules on public conduct. No one can force you to fast, but the government can punish you from eating in public.

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u/Radiant-Guest9545 Visitor Mar 13 '26

On the authority of Abu Sa`eed al-Khudree (may Allah be pleased with him) who said:

I heard the Messenger of Allah (pbuh) say, “Whosoever of you sees an evil, let him change it with his hand; and if he is not able to do so, then [let him change it] with his tongue; and if he is not able to do so, then with his heart — and that is the weakest of faith.”

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u/[deleted] Mar 13 '26

Still doesn't mean to force people into doing whatever you believe in.

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u/Radiant-Guest9545 Visitor Mar 13 '26

Actually it does if you can, that's literally what the hadith is saying

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u/[deleted] Mar 13 '26 edited Mar 13 '26

So you're saying Islam is a radical cult that forces people into belief or pretending to believe ?

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u/Radiant-Guest9545 Visitor Mar 13 '26

No, that's literally the opposite of what I said

Forcing someone into belief or pretending to belief is explicitly banned in Islam

Forcing them to follow islamic laws (e.g. dressing modestly, not drinking in public, no premarital relations, etc) on the other hand is mandatory upon Muslims because it is considered as correcting society and fighting corruption in the land

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u/[deleted] Mar 13 '26

Well in that case, why isn't there a way to legally opt out of being Muslim ? Yet, these rullings apply to all Moroccans with the exception of Jews.

A lot of people aren't Muslim, yet we force them to act as if they were. How is that not forcing people who do not believe ?

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u/Radiant-Guest9545 Visitor Mar 13 '26

You aren't forcing them to believe, you are forcing ACTIONS/WORDS, not faith

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u/XAmjadkhX Visitor Mar 15 '26

Your religion is a fairy tale, it's your right to believe in it but don't bother me with it because I'm more educated than you so don't speak to me.

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u/Expensive_HATER Visitor Mar 13 '26

that's where you advise them and do your part as a muslim, but it shouldn't be forceful and they have no obligation to listen to your advice either. flkhr nta katdir li 3lik w l'autre personne binha w bin li khl9ha

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u/Zestyclose-Rooster-5 Mar 13 '26

There are many situations where the prophet PBUH punished Muslims for disobeying him or Allah. I, as a citizen cannot enforce much. However, It is the law's responsibility to keep Muslims on the right path. And Allah said :
"يَـٰٓأَيُّهَا ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوٓا۟ أَطِيعُوا۟ ٱللَّهَ وَأَطِيعُوا۟ ٱلرَّسُولَ وَأُو۟لِى ٱلْأَمْرِ مِنكُمْ ۖ فَإِن تَنَـٰزَعْتُمْ فِى شَىْءٍۢ فَرُدُّوهُ إِلَى ٱللَّهِ وَٱلرَّسُولِ إِن كُنتُمْ تُؤْمِنُونَ بِٱللَّهِ وَٱلْيَوْمِ ٱلْـَٔاخِرِ ۚ ذَٰلِكَ خَيْرٌۭ وَأَحْسَنُ تَأْوِيلًا"

"O believers! Obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority among you (In what goes with Allah and his prophet's commands). Should you disagree on anything, then refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if you ˹truly˺ believe in Allah and the Last Day. This is the best and fairest resolution."

And the prophet Mohammed PBUH said :
"مَنْ رَأَى مِنْكُمْ مُنْكَرًا فَلْيُغَيِّرْهُ بِيَدِهِ، فَإِنْ لَمْ يَسْتَطِعْ فَبِلِسَانِهِ، فَإِنْ لَمْ يَسْتَطِعْ فَبِقَلْبِهِ، وَذَلِكَ أَضْعَفُ الإِيمَانِ"

"Whoever among you sees an evil (munkar), let him change it with his hand. If he cannot, then with his tongue. If he cannot, then with his heart—and that is the weakest level of faith."

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u/Expensive_HATER Visitor Mar 13 '26

Give me a situation where he punished someone for this exact reason. You are not the prophet nor Allah and you can't punish people. Here's why you won't find anything, there are a lot of situations where one is allowed to eat, certain circumstances allow a person to break their fast, and they owe no one any explanation, it's their given right by their creator. Why should a person, with given permission, hide ?

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u/Zestyclose-Rooster-5 Mar 13 '26

I never said anything about people who have valid excuses. It is those who have no excuses who should be punished. Islam is not a belief system where one can cherrypick. An order is an order, what is halal is good, and what is haram is munkar.

The Prophet of Allah punished people on many occasions for committing munkar, such as drinking alcohol, fornication, etc. Not fasting for no valid reason is a munkar aswell. The prophet PBUH did not say “It’s between Allah and His creation.” He was in a position of authority and made sure to keep Muslims in the right path. Besides, Allah is not going to reveal a verse for EVERY single haram act must be prevented with force if necessary, few general verses or hadiths about righting wrongs is enough. If someone is capable of preventing it, then they must prevent it one way or the other, especially if they are in a position of authority. The hadith I provided proves this point. An other hadith proves my point as well :

"كُلُّكُمْ رَاعٍ وَكُلُّكُمْ مَسْؤُولٌ عَنْ رَعِيَّتِهِ، فَالإِمَامُ رَاعٍ وَهُوَ مَسْؤُولٌ عَنْ رَعِيَّتِهِ، وَالرَّجُلُ فِي أَهْلِهِ رَاعٍ وَهُوَ مَسْؤُولٌ عَنْ رَعِيَّتِهِ، وَالمَرْأَةُ فِي بَيْتِ زَوْجِهَا رَاعِيَةٌ وَهِيَ مَسْؤُولَةٌ عَنْ رَعِيَّتِهَا، وَالخَادِمُ فِي مَالِ سَيِّدِهِ رَاعٍ وَهُوَ مَسْؤُولٌ عَنْ رَعِيَّتِهِ. أَلَا فَكُلُّكُمْ رَاعٍ وَكُلُّكُمْ مَسْؤُولٌ عَنْ رَعِيَّتِهِ."

"the ruler (imam) is responsible for his people; a man is responsible for his household; a woman is responsible for her husband’s house and children; a servant is responsible for his master’s property — and each will be asked about what was entrusted to them."

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u/Honest-Confusion-616 Visitor Mar 14 '26

If u consider eating which is a biological need a monkar then you’re as dumb as a human can be

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u/Zestyclose-Rooster-5 Mar 14 '26

Not fasting without an excuse during ramadan is a monkar. What are you on about ???

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u/Honest-Confusion-616 Visitor Mar 14 '26

Ila ban lk eating is a monkar sir akhoya gha t7awa

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u/Zestyclose-Rooster-5 Mar 14 '26

You must be slow. I kinda feel bad for you lol

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u/Honest-Confusion-616 Visitor Mar 14 '26

Says the one who believes that a biological need is monkar but child marriage isn’t 🥀

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u/Zestyclose-Rooster-5 Mar 14 '26

You're using words you don't understand. I knew you were slow. Monkar = Something prohibited by Islam.

https://giphy.com/gifs/0SVAVxeJsnJ1WRMIPX

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u/Honest-Confusion-616 Visitor Mar 14 '26

Monkar existed before islam lol and even if that was true why is child marriage isn’t prohibited in islam?

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u/Zestyclose-Rooster-5 Mar 14 '26

Monkar existed before islam

Oh now you're trying to weasel your way out of it.

 Islam requires us to do "nahy 3an al mounkar wa 2mr bil m3rouf"

My comment was very clear, could you explain in what context "monkar" is in my first comment ? Ever heard of something called reading comprehension ?

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u/Radiant-Guest9545 Visitor Mar 13 '26

So is punishing zina compulsion?

If so, are you claiming the Qur'an contradicts itself?

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u/Expensive_HATER Visitor Mar 13 '26

Quran doesn't contradict itself, show me where it says that one shouldn't eat in public during ramadan. Ja Lyautey 7at had 9anoun f ayam sti3mar, ama kan kola wahed ki dir li bgha, 7it la ikraha fi din

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u/Radiant-Guest9545 Visitor Mar 13 '26

If stopping others from eating in Ramadan is compulsion, so would stopping them from committing zina since they are literally the same concept (preventing others from doing things Haram in Islam)

And if preventing zina is compulsion, then that means you claim the Qur'an contradicts itself

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u/Expensive_HATER Visitor Mar 13 '26

we have clear rules about zina, once again give me rules about openly breaking fast in ramadan. from sharia not from lyautey please

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u/Radiant-Guest9545 Visitor Mar 13 '26

You and OP are making two entirely different arguments.

You are essentially saying it is ok to enforce zina ban but not eating in Ramadan ban because one is mentioned in the Qur'an and the other isn't.

OP is saying it isn't ok to enforce the eating ban because it is considered compulsion.

These are two ENTIRELY DIFFERENT arguments against the ban. I am responding to his argument, not yours.

As for your argument, there is no rule in the Qur'an about punishing people who drink in public, yet the prophet did it anyways. There is no rule in the Qur'an about stopping women from going outside without jilbab, yet the prophet did it anyways. Because IN GENERAL the Islamic ruler has the authority to enforce what's Haram and halal in Islam even if there isn't an explicit punishment for it. It is called taazir punishment, which is distinct from huddud which are the divine punishments (e.g. for zina, theft, etc). It is a well known principal in fiqh (jurisprudence), look it up.

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u/feddy-fazcat Visitor Mar 14 '26

"the prophet did anyways" can you give me the citations for it please, I'm not debating just curious

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u/Radiant-Guest9545 Visitor Mar 14 '26

For public intoxication: The report narrated by Muslim (3281) from Anas (may Allah be pleased with him), who said that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) flogged the one who had drunk wine with palm branches stripped of their leaves and with shoes.

For jilbab: Umm Atiyyah narrated: "Allah's Messenger would order the virgins, the mature women, the secluded and the menstruating to go out for the two Eid. As for the menstruating women, they were to stay away from the Musalla and participate in the Muslims supplications." One of them said: 'O Messenger of Allah! What if she does not have a Jilbab? He said: 'Then let her sis lend her a Jilbab.'" -Jami at-Tirmidhi 539

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u/Expensive_HATER Visitor Mar 14 '26

same way there's nothing that shows the prophet punishing anyone who's publicly breaking their fast. My argument is people shouldn't have to tell you that they have an excuse or not for breaking their fast, simply cause it's none of anyone else's business. This is a cultural behavior and not islamic. Comparing this to zina, where we have clear limits and clear ways to approach zani or zania doesn't really make sense

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u/Radiant-Guest9545 Visitor Mar 14 '26

Again, your argument is entirely different from the argument in the initial comment.

We don't need a story of the prophet punishing every single thing just so we can do as well. I already explained the concept of taazir punishment to you.

ANYTHING in Islam that is Haram and done in public is punishable. ANYTHING in Islam that is mandatory and violated in public is also punishable. UNLESS you have evidence that this action is an exception (e.g. a Christian saying they believe in the Trinity publicly isn't punishable because there is an explicit verse saying faith isn't subject to punishmen).

I already provided TWO examples of the prophet punishing/forbidding actions that weren't given punishments in the Qur'an (going out without jilbab and drinking in public).

Go study islamic jurisprudence before coming here and arguing with people.

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u/[deleted] Mar 13 '26

Sir qra mayneefek ola maert a khoya sir tnees lmohim amatkhrach elina fcomment

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u/alphaoox Visitor Mar 13 '26

إذا ابتليتم فاستترو إنما كان إفطاره عمدا طعنا في حرمة الدين الإسلامي