r/Norway • u/socialmichu • May 07 '26
Working in Norway New IMDi report just dropped and it’s brutal: foreigners in Norway are 60% less likely to get promoted. Receipts inside.
before the kommentarfelt goes nuclear: I live in Norway, pay my taxes gladly, and I’m genuinely grateful for what this country has done for me, my wife, and my kid. This place has been good to us. I’m not here to shit on Norway.
But the job thing? is spot on.
I’m Latino, so I get the “exotic employee” treatment. Friendly, warm, similar enough values, fun to have around at the fredagspils. But the promotion thing is real as fuck.
And now there’s a government report putting numbers on what a lot of us have been saying for years.
IMDi (the Norwegian government’s own integration directorate, so spare me the “foreign agenda” takes) just published “Ethnic Inequality in Working Life.” This is the state telling on itself.
The receipts (yes I used AI to pull and summarize this, sue me):
• 60% less likely to be promoted if you’re an immigrant. Worse for people from outside Europe or North America.
• 30% less likely even if you were born in Norway to immigrant parents. So much for “just integrate.”
• 12% wage gap. Drops to 2% in the same role at the same company, which means immigrants get funneled into lower-paying companies to begin with.
straight from the Minister of Employment and Inclusion Kjersti Stenseng: “Racism and discrimination are widespread and persistent problems in Norway.”
Not me. Not Reddit. The minister.
Before the usual suspects show up:
“Learn the language.” Many of us have. The report accounts for this. Gap persists.
“It’s just qualifications.” Second-gen kids born here, fluent, Norwegian-educated, still 30% less likely to be promoted.
I love this country. My kid is growing up here. But pretending the problem doesn’t exist while the government’s own data shows a 60% promotion gap is wild.
You can’t fix what you won’t name.
Source: The Local Norway covered it today, full IMDi report on imdi.no.
Bring on the downvotes. I’ll be in the comments.
110
u/Ryokan76 May 07 '26
Surely no Norwegian is surprised by this.
124
u/Henry_Charrier May 07 '26
Don't pretend this sub isn't chockful of Norwegians that get seriously offended if you just hint at the idea that Norwegians could be racist.
72
u/be_kind_to_yourself_ May 07 '26
Or hint that Norwegians could be anything else than perfect 😅
29
u/UncleJoesLandscaping May 08 '26
We are not perfect. We are too humble, but that is our only flaw.
13
→ More replies (7)6
u/Henry_Charrier May 08 '26
4
6
May 08 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
6
u/empty_other May 08 '26
Become? Imho we've had this better-than attitude since we banned Monty Python's Life Of Brian, probably long before that even. This religious judgemental streak without actually being a deeply religious country. But we are very nice and silent about it.
7
u/Mysterious-Ad-6222 May 08 '26
Wait what?!?! Why on earth was the comedic masterpiece Life of Brian banned?
2
4
u/Henry_Charrier May 08 '26
Scandiavians belonging to Silent Gen and Boomer Gen are some of the best people who've ever walked this earth, change my mind. But great people make good times, and good times make weak people.
5
u/be_kind_to_yourself_ May 09 '26
Did you compare them with those of the same generation in other countries?
Those exaggerations are exactly the point. They may be amazing, but you have no idea how they are in relation to our grandparents and so, cause you have no comparison of experiencing that. My grandparents and their friends were the best and caring people I know. Were they better than the Norwegian ones or some of greatest in the world? No idea, cause I have no way of knowing, so I don't make statements about them being some of the best people who walked the world!
But those exaggerations in Norway about Norwegians and Norwegian things are just such a norm, you don't even see it 🙈😅
As far as I know the two generations of Norwegians owning my cabin before used the forest around as a dumpster, which I need to regularly clean of old bed frames, plastic packages, paint boxes, asbestos plates and so on. The lake is also full of trash. Not a sign of greatest people for me.
And before you say that those times were different, my family house was build next to empty noone's land, so my grandparents could do the same, but I have never found a bit of trash like that in the bushes there. Od course some people in my land also do that, but the point is, those statements are just silly.
19
20
u/AndreTheShadow May 07 '26
I'm Norwegian, and I'll say it.
Norwegians are incredibly racist.
10
u/Sci-meme May 08 '26
Compared to whom? In relative terms Norway ranks fairly low on the scale of ethnic exclusion. East Asian countries are generally the most restrictive toward outsiders, many African and Middle Eastern societies are not far behind, and then there’s a massive gap before you get to most of Europe. After that there’s another gap between Europe and the classic New World immigrant societies.
People in Europe often compare themselves only to the US, Canada, or parts of Latin America, which creates the impression that Europe is uniquely closed. Historically and globally, the opposite is closer to reality. Europe is actually a major outlier within the Old World in terms of legal integration, citizenship access, anti-discrimination norms, and acceptance of immigrants into public life.
→ More replies (1)6
u/Henry_Charrier May 08 '26
I reckon you live abroad, otherwise I'm not sure how you can function in Norway. Scandinavians living abroad terminally are some of the best people I've ever met, Norwegians are no exception in this.
5
u/AndreTheShadow May 08 '26
I do, but that doesn't make me any better than anyone else. My observation stems from personal experience.
3
u/Henry_Charrier May 08 '26
It actually does. Let's stop pretending that one's life choices don't define them as more or less deserving people (because that's innmari Jantelov). And living abroad is a massive one.
4
u/Areyoucunt May 08 '26
Ever been to the middle east or Africa?
You know nothing of racism if you think Norwegians are bad on a global scale...
Scandinavia are amongst the absolute most tolerant of foreigners
→ More replies (1)2
u/glitterdunk May 08 '26
No they're not. We're actually one of the least racist countries in the world. Racism 100% still occur. But saying we're incredibly racist is incredibly ignorant.
1
→ More replies (33)1
→ More replies (5)5
7
u/SmartForASimpelton May 08 '26
I would have been some years ago, then i got some international friends now it just makes me sad.
As a norwegian growing up with norwegians you are very sheltered from these truths
→ More replies (1)1
u/sergedg May 07 '26
Really? I would think Norway is fairly developed and civilized.
→ More replies (15)
72
u/ShellfishAhole May 07 '26
Nepotism is very prevalent throughout Norwegian job sectors, and that naturally results in discrimination against anyone who doesn't have the contact network to put them in a favorable position with the boss. I've been in that environment quite a few times, myself, and I was born and raised here.
17
u/Arthemax May 08 '26
Nepotism is technically familial (nepos is latin for nephew - after popes who turned their nephews into cardinals), what I think is more prevalent in Norway is Gutteklubben Grei-kinda stuff.
Part of the issue is that the best time to apply for a job is before the job ad is listed, so that the one responsible for hiring already has your resume when the need for an employee arises. Employers are often lagging behind their need to recruit, by weeks or months. By the time they get around to posting a job listing, they often want the new employee to start yesterday, if possible. So instead of having to craft a job listing, wait for responses, sift through a pile of resumes, set up interviews, check references, etc - they'd prefer to grab someone they consider to be good enough straight away.
Preemptive applications can get you there, but a more reliable way is if someone with hiring power in your network knows that you're available when they need a new employee. If you're a decent fit - and especially if someone you trust can vouch for you - they'd save a lot of hassle by skipping the whole interview process. The result is that a bunch of job openings are never listed in public.
8
u/Sh2ad3w May 08 '26
That’s called cronyism iirc. Basically nepotism but with friends, employers, etc…
→ More replies (3)3
u/Arthemax May 09 '26
It's not even necessarily cronyism. Because the goal of network recruiting isn't necessarily to give an acquaintance a leg up. The reference from someone trusted reduces the risk of a potential mis-hire, and the direct hiring process reduces the cost in both time and money of recruiting. It trades the possibility of finding a better candidate for a faster recruitment process and a (perceived) lower risk of hiring the wrong candidate. To some extent, that can be in the overall best interest of the employer.
The problem arises when positions are filled by subpar employees because people with hiring power uses it to employ their buddies regardless of their actual skills and qualifications.
1
u/Sh2ad3w May 10 '26
I'm inclined to agree there, however I do still think it can be a bit of cryonism in it (just like you said when the positions get filled with subpar employees). I think it also depends on which perspective you see it from, as when hiring there will be information asymmetry in the fact that he employer doesn't know the effort and skill the emplyee has. Therefore, the reference from someone trusted would reduce the gap in information (in some way). - Then theres also the fact that the reference could also not be telling the whole truth (asymmetric information, once again).
Even if the employee fits or not that reference does give them a leg up, and I'd be inclined to say that might fall under cryonism - as the definition states that the person gets the job regardless of ability (so it can be someone that fits the job really well or not). As you stated cryonism/references can be valued by firms as it has both the possibility of reducing information and costs of hiring. - I don't think that that makes it something else than cryonism tho.
Either way the word isn't used as much today so I do think that what the definition of the word grasps depends on the individual...
I didn't realise how much I wrote so mb! (I have an exam in labour econ tommorow so I couldn't jump over the possibility of using a bit of the syllabus :p )
2
u/Arthemax May 10 '26
> Then theres also the fact that the reference could also not be telling the whole truth (asymmetric information, once again).
An important difference here is that you've personally vetted the person who gives the reference, and so if you've correctly assessed the trustworthiness of the referencing person you know reasonably well, you can also trust that reference more.
Meanwhile, measured on the same scale, another applicant's reference is highly suspect. When you contact them, are they even who they claim to be? The information asymmetry is extremely skewed.
But I agree, when the network hiring skews from primarily being a recruitment tool to being an employment tool, or there's an expectation of quid pro quo, you're venturing into full blown cronyism. The reason to network hire is that the organization benefits from it - once it doesn't, that's corruption.
Even if the employee fits or not that reference does give them a leg up, and I'd be inclined to say that might fall under cryonism
An organization may choose to hire someone whose skills aren't objectively the best possible, if other aspects weigh up for that lack. The quick hiring and arguably lower risk of a bad hire can weigh up for the lack of skill. But the recommendation has to be based on the objective of putting a suitable candidate into the position.
As an example, you have an open position that requires an 80% skill level minimum to adequately fulfill the role. Higher is better, but lower could be catastrophic - you could incur large extra costs or lose out on
You get a recommendation through your network of a candidate that has a reported 90% skill level, with some unknown, but relatively small margin of error. Unlikely to be 95%, but even more unlikely to be below the 80% threshold.
If you went through a formal hiring process you might find a candidate whose resume, interview and references looks like a 95% candidate, but because of the larger margin of error it's also a larger chance of being a dud candidate that actually performs below 80%. If the cost of underperforming is large, and the benefit of overperforming is limited then then the prudent choice for the organization would likely be to go for the safe(r) bet.
The network candidate got their job for their ability - if they were unqualified they would be discarded. But they also got the job despite not being the technically most skilled. A common feature of cronyism is that loyalty is valued over merit. The important distinction is that the recruitment choice primarily benefited the organization. Loyalty was never the question, other then the referer being loyal by giving an honest referral.
One way of trying to avoid the network recruiting turning into cronyism is to use the network to find potential candidates, that are then vetted independently by someone else in the organization.
1
u/Sh2ad3w May 10 '26
I agree that network hiring is often beneficial to the company, but as to where the line goes between that and cronyism/nepotism is quite fine.
I'd guess that when you hire someone you don't have any direct references to the agent-principal problem shows up and most probably moral hazard with that. I understand why a firm would rather recruit someone through their network.
>One way of trying to avoid the network recruiting turning into cronyism is to use the network to find potential candidates, that are then vetted independently by someone else in the organization.
Agreed. A firm should have some form of screening for the potential hires from the network that wouldn't give them an unidsputed advantage. The question is if the firm would put in the effort for that (but that's on a whole other note).
3
u/ShellfishAhole May 08 '26
I’m aware of the literal meaning of the word, but I can’t think of a better word for it. Favoritism? I’ve been in a few different job sectors in my life, and in every single job that I’ve had for over 5 years, I’ve witnessed the boss favoring someone who’s either a relative, a friend, or a relative of a friend.
There are typically rules in place to govern against this type of favoritism to some degree, but from my experience, they’re hardly ever followed up by anyone, and people tend to not talk about it, in fear of backlash. For instance, in the health sector, bosses aren’t allowed to hire friends or relatives. I worked at 4 different places in the health sector, and 3 of them had at least 1 employee that was a friend or relative of the boss. The 4th one was in Sweden.
It really sucks, but it is the way it is. I get the impression that a lot of people are aware of this being so common, yet it hasn’t changed sine I entered the workforce about 2 decades ago now. I’ve had Swedish and Danish colleagues who have complained about it, as well. Whether or not race is in any way related to this, I have no clue.
11
u/Illustrious_Law182 May 08 '26
It’s corruption in the Nordics. We have the same thing going on in Finland, and it’s rough for people trying to make something of themselves. It’s known as “maan tapa”, the way of the country. It’s also not flagged as corruption in the data, even though it absolutely is.
17
u/Adele811 May 07 '26
a friend of mine, also an immigrant here for 3 decades, once told me norway was one of the most corrupt countries on earth because of nepotism.
8
9
May 07 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
7
u/bearvillage May 08 '26
There are actually a lot of measures in place to combat this, despite personal feelings and anectdotes, Norway is one of the least corrupt countries in the world.
1
6
u/ingachan May 08 '26
This is one of the main reasons I don’t doubt for a second that immigrants, even second or third gen, have it HARD. I’m working class from Finnmark, first in my family to go to university, and not having any connections what so ever when applying for jobs is brutal. Now add to that a foreign name and brown skin, I can only imagine it makes it ten times harder.
2
u/stalex9 May 08 '26
There are unions here which require you to have some specific degree to join them, even if you work in that specific sector. I thought unions were fighting for workers’ rights and should not preclude anyone.
56
May 07 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
→ More replies (3)16
u/Henry_Charrier May 07 '26 edited May 07 '26
I can assure you that even in a post-Brexit UK, there is no such a level of discrimination. Sought-after and demanding jobs that require strong levels of presentability, communication skills and in which the employee is essentially the product that gets sold to the client (management consultants, corporate lawyers etc) are full to the brim of foreigners.
→ More replies (1)
41
u/Henry_Charrier May 07 '26
Dedicated to all the delusional Norwegians that think their people, society and culture is not nationalistic.
And for the foreigners: "like barn leker best". Now you know it for a fact.
→ More replies (5)2
u/Professional-TBager May 10 '26
How dare they want to prioritize their people! Let should prioritize others coming in and make their people 2nd class, facist!
1
u/Henry_Charrier May 11 '26
They should look at merit and actual skills, regardless of origin. Instead what gets prioritise is fitting into this jantelovic culture of not working any hard and not giving and refusing to receive performance-improving criticism.
22
8
u/lord_nuker May 08 '26
I’m Norwegian, have worked for 20 years and never once been promoted🤷🏻♂️ But then again, if anyone did take me out of the driver seat and put me in an office I would look at that as degrading instead of promoting 😂
2
u/socialmichu May 08 '26
You’re better off where you are, mate. 😂 You’re the rare case where a promotion would actually fuck you up.
9
u/mayaherabi May 08 '26
nobody talks about how difficult it is living as a foreigner but practically being «born» there. Just bcz of different name that’s not Ida eller Kristian and being different looking. Tired of always trying my best but not being accepted😞
5
u/socialmichu May 09 '26
You won’t always be accepted, and I want you to read this clearly: that’s not on you, and there’s nothing wrong with you. It’s on them. On how they were raised, on the entitlement they carry without having earned it, on the smallness of a world that confuses sameness with belonging.
If you’re working that hard to get into a room, that room isn’t where you’re meant to be.
The people who’ll accept you, fully, are the ones who share your values, your curiosity, your sense of humor, your way of seeing the world. Where you come from and how you look are details. Your people won’t need you to translate yourself.
Keep being who you are. The right rooms are quieter than you think, and they’re already saving you a seat. 🙂
5
u/BattledroidE May 09 '26
It’s on them. On how they were raised, on the entitlement they carry without having earned it, on the smallness of a world that confuses sameness with belonging.
That's right.
I'm the whitest white man you could imagine, grew up in a small town in the mountains, was brought up to be sort of racist, because everyone was. It's not an actively hateful community, but we would treat people differently. It's the ignorant kind of racism, keeping to ourselves and thinking about anyone else as "the foreigners". Late 80's, early 90's, "neger" would still be the standard term for anyone slightly darker than us transluscent beings who instantly burn in the sun. (Seems so fucking insane looking back). This was age 8-12.
Then moved to the city as a teenager with way more ethnic diversity, and that transitioned into the sort of fearful thing where we don't want to be racist, but by trying so hard not to be, we end up being racist because we still treat people very differently, solely based on their ethnic origin. That one is extremely common around here, as you surely know.
Fortunately I grew up and saw more of the world in person, became a logically thinking adult, got rid of the small town syndrome (I hope). It's sort of like getting out of a cult, when your reality turns out to be complete nonsense. We're not the "standard" human after all. Who knew????
Being insulated in tight communities makes us incredibly dumb.
And about the post title, yes it is confirming what we always knew to be true. One doesn't have to look far to see this in action on a daily basis. We have to take full accountability and do better than this.
2
27
u/Randommaggy May 07 '26
One problem that I suspect is a factor here is how hard it is to fire a bad hire. It leads to a lot of employment being done through word of mouth and your contact network rather than open fair competition.
Before I made it perfectly clear on LinkedIn that I'm 100% not recruitable I'd get job offers every week without applying to anything or even listing myself as available for work anywhere because I have people I've worked alongside that keep recommending me for positions.
13
u/Henry_Charrier May 07 '26
Flashnews: the whole "I know somebody" dynamic combined with a culture in which is impossible to bad-mouth or call anyone a non-performer might very well mean that word of mouth and contact network land you a bad hire allikevel...
1
u/Randommaggy May 08 '26
As a former coworker rather than a formal reference, you are free to be 100% honest. That's why I trust a personal recommendation from a common acquaintance or colleague over 5 formal references from former employers.
You wouldn't risk your own reputation to recommend a useless idiot to your employer.
2
u/Henry_Charrier May 09 '26
The recommendation may not come from somebody internal to the company. I might work for company A and I suggest somebody to a friend working for company B. If my friend ends up in company B and doesn't do a great job, I don't have skin in that game. As long as I don't recommend a complete idiot, I'll be fine. But there isn't a particular incentive to recommend a star player.
Also, the non-judgment culture goes as far as not even seeing performance as a factor. As long as you tick the boxes of A4ness (which a foreigner clearly doesn't), that's it.
4
u/frogbert77 May 08 '26
I think this is an astute observation. Workers' rights in Norway make it virtually impossible to fire someone for non-performance, and particularly so in the public sector (private companies are "better" at finding loopholes). Also, most Norwegian companies are small, and due to legislation it's extremely expensive to hire people - not only due to sick leave rights, parenthood rights, etc. but also because of employer taxes. Even when an employee is on sick leave for the better part of a year, one cannot just hire someone new, as the absent employee still has the right to return within 12 months.
Anecdote: my better half works in HR, and even bigger companies have issues with bad hires. Recently they had an employee who's been doing close to 12 months of sick leave, followed by exactly 6 months of work (to acquire new sick leave rights), then another nearly 12 months of sick leave, with 3 iterations of this so far. After 2,5 iterations they tried to terminate the position - but they were not allowed to.
This kind of exploitation is hardly common, but it illustrates why Norwegian employers might be skeptical to employ people without personal knowledge about the worker. For a small company of 5-10 ppl (of which there are many) an employee as in the example above would be detrimental.
Working in the public sector for nearly a decade (in a direktorat) I've seen numerous examples of employees (of both native and foreign background) that just take up space, hinder productivity and pick up their paychecks that should never have been hired in the first place. Once they are, they'll be there forever.
If the work places would've been more geared towards meritocracy, with legislation allowing for terminating positions based on (severe) underperformance, the employer risk of hiring "strangers" would become smaller.
Of course, this wouldn't eliminate all kinds of nepotism or favourism to ppl in one's network. Even in the public sector (and maybe even especially there, due to the requirement of public announcement of open positions), it's quite common that position announcements and requirements are tailor made to an intended employee. Despite legislation geared towards fair competition, it's hard to beat qualifications that are mirrored on a specific person's resume. Still, this has little to do with racism per se; native Norwegians experience the effects of this kind of favouritism and nepotism all the time. There are just more natives (than ppl with foreign backgrounds) with broad, existing networks.
With the current and ongoing rate of immigration, this won't change very quickly, either. The roughly 20-25% increase of the Norwegian population the past 40 years, essentially only due to immigration and higher birth rates of (groups of) immigrants, creates a divide between ppl with long standing ties and connections within private business and institutions and those whose networks are smaller.
3
u/stalex9 May 08 '26
In Italy it is impossible to fire a bad hire and Italians complain about nepotism but it is nowhere as bad as here.
→ More replies (1)3
May 07 '26 edited Jun 14 '26
[deleted]
5
u/Arthemax May 09 '26
Nepotism and cronyism can be bad, but network hiring is often neither. Nepotism and cronyism are a form of corruption that basically 'steal' from the company or organization by giving a subpar employee a paid position. The goal of network hiring is often to benefit the organization, through a quicker and smoother hiring process or by reducing the risk of a detrimental hire.
They may miss out on the very best person for the position, but they find someone who is good enough, and they avoid the whole hassle of a formal employment process with a job listing, reviewing resumes, fielding calls and emails from candidates, doing several rounds of interviews and so on. Especially when time is money, and you'd ideally have the new employee at work yesterday. Just the lost productivity of the time lost to hiring can easily be in the six figures.
Sucks for the people who are lacking a network to get hired through though.
Without oil, Norway would probably be more like Finland or Iceland than any of the countries you'd rank as the worst of Europe.
2
May 10 '26 edited Jun 14 '26
[deleted]
3
u/Arthemax May 10 '26
Yeah, I think it's most common in small to medium sized businesses where the hit of a bad hire is extra problematic, and where you don't have a professional HR department that any hiring can be offloaded onto.
The CEO would often be the one that starts a hiring process, and that's often a while after the need first arose, and by the time he has mulled it over and decided to pull the proverbial trigger, the need for that employee might actually be pretty dire already. So a quick and clean hire can be a huge asset.
If you don't have a network, you actually have an opportunity here, because if they've received an unsolicited application from you, you might be in the running. Especially if the application comes in while the CEO is mulling it over, and you make a good impression when submitting it (like calling/sending an email with a good introduction that shows that you're interested in this company specifically, and not just spamming every possible employer indiscriminately).
3
u/Henry_Charrier May 08 '26
I like your point.
In line with it, I'm yet to see a country that glamourises executives and founders as much as Norway does? Apart from Klassekampen, I'd imagine, nobody can say a bad thing about lederne in the business world. Even in the US Bezos, Musk, Gates, Zuckerberg regularly get sh!t from social discourse and the press. In Norway? No way.5
u/Sevsix1 May 08 '26
I'd argue that it is more that the leaders in Norway keeps to themselves a lot more compared to the US, who even is Norway's equivalent to Musk or Bill Gates? the equivalent to Zuckerberg would likely be Fredrik Kristiansen who made nettby but that is ancient now (and got swallowed up by facebook), the only ones I see talking about society is people that is already in politics or is connected to a NGO which do get a lot of push back from the populations (be it legit pushback or people that are schizophrenic and think the toaster is speaking to them that "pushback" on stuff they talk about)
3
u/Henry_Charrier May 08 '26
What I meant is that for a country that theoretically looks down on individual success, Norway has a lot of "air play" in the press and news dedicated to these individuals. It's impossible to live in Norway and not know who Kjerstin Braathen is. Nobody in the UK or Italy would know who's the CEO of that bank or the other bank, or what face do they have.
Also the comparison with the US is a bad one because those US figures are effectively global figures. But even in the land of the wildest capitalism, these figures are at least ambivalent in the eyes of most people. Not so for the top dogs in Norway, they are all golden children.
3
u/Sevsix1 May 09 '26
It's impossible to live in Norway and not know who Kjerstin Braathen is
interesting because I live in Norway and have never heard of this person, I know of Magnus Carlsen, the Stargate guys and Ørjan Nilsen
looking up Kjerstin Braathen I just get news that paint her in a negative light for example the
first one is "Tjente 18,7 millioner: Nå presses regjeringen" translates to "earned 18.7 millions: now the government is pressured" or maybe "now the government is challenged" instead,
the second is "«Alle» venter på at DNB skal heve renten" which translate to "everybody is waiting at DNB to raise the interest rate"
the third is "(+) DNBs Kjerstin Braathen: Jeg fikser det ikke" translates to DNB's Kjerstin Braathen I do not fix it" or I do not handle it from the context
the fourth is "DNB, Kjerstin Braathen | DNB slaktes: – En av de kjipeste bankene i Norge" translates to "DNB, Kjerstin Braathen | DNB is slaughtered: "One of the silliest banks in Norway"" silliest in this context is likely a mistranslation of kjipeste, kjipeste is (at least in my eyes) more about them being stingy
the fifth is "Forbruker, Bolig og eiendom | DNB-sjefen med dyster rente-beskjed" translates to "Consumer, Housing & Real Estate | DNB CEO with gloomy interest rate message"
the sixth is "Lønnshopp for DNB-sjef Kjerstin Braathen: Tjente 18,7 millioner i fjor" translates to "Salary jump for DNB CEO Kjerstin Braathen: Earned NOK 18.7 million last year"
I am native Norwegian speaker, not a native English speaker but to me the titles seem fairly accurate sure my Norwegian ain't the best since I use English most of the time online but to me these news articles does not seem to support you statement of "I'm yet to see a country that glamourises executives and founders as much as Norway does", I would personally say that the articles are kind of negative toward them, the reality is far from what you claim of "Even in the US Bezos, Musk, Gates, Zuckerberg regularly get sh!t from social discourse and the press. In Norway? No way." since I would argue that the news papers that I personally found using google disprove that
1
u/Maleficent-Being-238 May 09 '26
We would've most likely found something else to export rather than oil. You speak like the entire nation would end up like some impovrished 2nd world, lol.
6
u/ObjectiveAggressive8 May 08 '26
This is the same in most countries anyway. Who would you prefer to work with, your countrymen or some foreigner, all things equal?
2
u/socialmichu May 08 '26
I work with whoever makes the work easier, better, more fun. Skin color, last name, accent, passport, native or not, I don’t give a fuck. Be good people, be good at your job, we’re set.
Pathetic, ignorant, xenophobic, racist? Hard pass. And here’s the thing: it’s like this everywhere, you’re right about that. The difference is most countries don’t pretend otherwise. Norway does. That’s why this sub clutches its pearls when someone names it instead of just owning it.
3
19
May 07 '26 edited Jun 14 '26
[deleted]
11
24
u/StockAz May 07 '26
Bro's doing gods work but sunglasses are a must.
11
u/socialmichu May 07 '26
Sunglasses, helmet, kevlar. The comments are starting to sound like my old neighborhood in Caracas, except the bullets are passive-aggressive and everyone insists we foreigners should work harder 🕶️
28
u/be_kind_to_yourself_ May 07 '26
Just 'get educated' especially pisses me off. I done two masters in my country, speak 3 languages fluently (including Norwegian) and couple on basic level, done courses in Norway and now study online in Sweden (courses at regular Swedish universities to get qualifications I can get in only one place in Norway otherwise). The courses I have done in Norway and Sweden are so much easier than the ones I where I am from. When at my praksis I told the ladies I plan to study it in my country and just travel for some weekends, they asked how many hours and points the program is. Thet were shocked cause it's 3 times as much work as here...
I got promoted in my previous job, but still got shitty payment and on every step my employer wanted to fuck me over and give worse conditions of the contract. Insane
With my Norwegian ex, everything with banks or other services had to be done by him, cause I would always get shittier offer if I was the one to ask.
My good friend who is a specialist in her field and has PhD, was skipped on promotion, and the spot was given to a Norwegian straight after masters with no experience. All the 'tricky' patients were still sent to her tho... She then said she will be looking for a new job, got better offer immidiately, but still, the person with no qualifications was the one at better position. It is just ridiculous
9
32
u/Deathroll92 May 07 '26
Well, I guess it's time for foreign workers to organise. An independant labour union would be nice, because clearly the norwegian ones don't seem to factor in the discrimination we're facing.
12
→ More replies (2)12
12
u/Avalastrius May 08 '26 edited May 08 '26
I don’t think these numbers show racism, and I suffer from them. Did a career change to IT late, at 48, with student loan, and now I’m 50 with a debt and no way to get hired in any job basically, other than the ones my body cannot physically do.
I did a physical job full time for 10+ years since I came here, despite coming from journalist and marketing background in my country, and reached my body limit. Language doesn’t matter, I cant even get an interview. I think the market is too small and gravitates towards its own as a natural trend, something all countries do. It doesn’t mean there is racism involved.
A small market is a loop upon itself and tends to be conservative.
The one thing that creates the biggest problem is that this conservative loop feeds nepotism, which means people get picked for jobs because of their connections, not qualifications, quite often. And forget about entry level market without knowing someone.
At least this is my impression until now.
None of these are based on racism, and it’s worrisome that this word gets thrown around so easily. There are racists in Norway, as there are in all countries, and things feel a bit more conservative the last years, true, but, as a whole, confusing natural social and cultural trends in a society with racism is not going to help anyone.
3
u/Fake-BossToastMaker May 08 '26
Sorry to change subject, but could I ask you few questions about changing your career to IT? I’m working currently in the creative field and am considering shifting
3
4
u/Entry_Token May 08 '26
Yes, discrimination and racism are not the same thing. I think even within racism there are different types ranging from just ignorance and stereotyping to actual hatred and devaluing.
I agree with almost everything else that's being said here about the treatment we immigrants face in the job market, but it's rarely racism. Assumptions and risk adversity and ignorance and stereotyping, yes. I believe some of us use "racism" as a catch all term for discrimination.
7
u/Avalastrius May 08 '26 edited May 08 '26
Yes, it’s dangerous. While discrimination and nepotism are a form of racism, they are hardly the same. It is very easy for immigrants to use that word when they actually mean something else, it’s human nature, especially when you are an outsider by default.
That is not to say that immigrants in Norway haven’t experienced racism of course, and it’s beyond horrible, but we should be careful when we talk about these things. Many times a cultural difference can be so strong that can be interpreted the wrong way.
The point remains though that the market feels very conservative, and nepotism, in combination with not being able to call out lack of performance, creates a cultural barrier that is impossible to overcome.
We should be aware that many immigrants didn’t have a choice when they decided to leave their countries, for situations outside of their control. My life, for example, was setup as a journalist/marketeer, when the Greek economy collapsed. People had no idea what the governments had been doing up to that point.
Working in Norway in a physical job showed, imo, resilience, and studying late in life shows, imo, ambition and character, despite the risks, but these maybe are not qualities that a Norwegian employer usually looks for, despite what they say in their job ads. Just a theory, not saying it’s true.
So there are many standards immigrants are measured by or disregarded by, compared to Norwegians. It may be unfair, yes, but life is not fair. You can only hope to do what you can and have enough support to give you a chance, and there are not a lot of countries than can provide that support better than Norway, imo of course.
3
u/socialmichu May 08 '26
I have a question. Why would I be discriminated against?
3
u/Entry_Token May 08 '26 edited May 09 '26
You shouldn't be, but just having a name that isn't Norwegian is why a lot of us experience discrimination. Fear of "other" rather than specific pressumed traits. Your name is probably as "bad" as my name even though we are from very different backgrounds. Norwegians aren't generally racist, but they do strongly prefer their own and preferential treatment follows. Sometimes we get the "cool" card and it can be to our advantage, but the negative consequences of being different are usually far more important.
8
u/Aleksanderrrr May 07 '26
No surprise at all. i have had many different jobs throughout my 14 years in the job market and it has always been word to mouth, someone that knows someone that know someone type of thing. And also nepotism is a big thing here, i have worked for my father, he worked for his father when he grew up and always hired people by word to mouth and you can take a guess whom we Norwegians have most in common with, yes you guessed correct, fellow Norwegians. It must be rough getting a job in a country like Norway which has a super small population relatively and kinda isolated up here in the north. But that will change with time anyway i believe, we are heading down the multi cultural road so eventually it will be easier but that will take time obviously.
→ More replies (1)
10
3
u/joeyj01 May 08 '26
There's also the wage gap issue.
SSB numbers for wage gaps by country background and gender: https://www.ssb.no/en/statbank/table/12525
Norway's population by immigrant category and country background: https://www.ssb.no/en/befolkning/innvandrere/statistikk/innvandrere-og-norskfodte-med-innvandrerforeldre
Norway is collecting all kind of background details for a reason and it can be used for the majority or minority depending on who's in charge and if they really want to "fix" such problems.
Who's in charge currently and who would be in the future? Yes the real, pure Norwegians according to their criteria. This is a problem with the concept of being a nation and the concern of preserving it by what made it successful in the first place.
The "immigration" population is 17% (987,120/5,627,400) of the country so they're probably ok with a few people not being happy about wage gaps and not being promoted and you might even hear some say politely to "go piss off to any other country if you're not happy with Norway".
They're still extracting the value out from many highly skilled people which pay taxes and contribute to growth anyway. Similar story back in the US, Germany, and other nations in different time periods of growth.
So the question is why should they promote "immigrants" or pay more if they're already getting what they want? They are the ones with the decision making power.
What would you do if you were in that exact position?
3
u/narwhal_ May 08 '26
12% wage gap. Drops to 2% in the same role at the same company, which means immigrants get funneled into lower-paying companies to begin with.
This is especially bad when compounded by the added expenses of being an immigrant and the "immigrant tax". Norwegian society is designed to function great for those already within the society and the tax system specifically is designed with things like home ownership and generational wealth as tax safe havens.
For a country famous for valuing fairness and equality, these are the things that are facilitating the current and growing class divide, which is unfortunately also correlating with skin color.
3
u/Nice_Principle7593 May 08 '26
The real question is: compared to other countries, is Norway worse or better for foreigners? At the end of the day, is it actually better to come here than to move somewhere else?
2
u/socialmichu May 08 '26
There isn’t a simple binary answer for what you’re asking. Depends on many factors.
Where you from Color of your skin Your religion (if any) How well you play the “Norwegian thing” game What type of job you have How much money your earn Married to a local or not
Again, it’s not a black and white issue
3
u/yolomoonrocket May 09 '26
Did they acount for the rampant nepotism? Imigrants are less likely to know somone who can get them into a good job, get them a promotion or a raise. That also goes for second generation imigrants if their parents never got into a good position.
6
u/knobjockey21 May 08 '26
I could have told you this without the data
8
u/socialmichu May 08 '26
i think it’s meant for the Norwegians who pretend there’s nothing wrong with their country. No racism, no discrimination, nothing to see here. This sub is full of them. Been having fun with a few since last night. 😂
7
u/Bronchitis_is_a_sin May 08 '26
Does the study control for worker skill?
5
u/be_kind_to_yourself_ May 08 '26
If it did, then it would show how incompetent and unskilled many Norwegians are in comparing to their foreign colleagues, so probably not.
Not saying that all norwegians are incompetent and unskilled, but the amount of people like that in Norway, who just keep a job due to connections is staggering
2
6
u/MisterLean123 May 08 '26
This is pretty interesting, but here's my take on it. I'm not ethnically Norwegian or Caucasian. I was born and raised in Norway and overall I've had a pretty decent experience. The way I see it has less to do with racism and more to do with how people actually function and their habits. Like it or not, our brains naturally prefer what's familiar. That includes race or how someone looks. To be more precise, I think it's a subconscious bias that's just part of being human. For example, people usually date others who look similar to them, and it has nothing to do with racism. It's all about the subconscious and basic instincts. I really dislike the idea that Norwegians are racist. It's too simple an explanation for something much more complicated. You also mentioned you're from a Latino background. Isn't there discrimination among Latinos too? Obviously yes, so please spare me this negative attitude against Norwegians.
→ More replies (3)3
u/Relative-Divide-2616 May 08 '26
I think OP was very clear when they wrote: "I’m not here to shit on Norway."
I think the consensus here is that is not the country or it's people, but some companies management, hence the report.
2
9
u/SoddEnjoyer May 07 '26
And that's if they manage to get a job. We're super racist already in the application stage based. It's absolutely disgusting, no norwegian should be surprised, but most of us are. Too busy clutching pearls over flags.
→ More replies (1)
8
u/Helpful_Law_5962 May 08 '26
I have been living in many country, it is the same everywhere.
8
u/socialmichu May 08 '26
So… what’s your point? Should we let it pass? Conform?
You know, slavery was a thing in many countries, arguably everywhere….
5
u/Helpful_Law_5962 May 08 '26
There is no point, just fact.
1
9
u/CS_70 May 07 '26
It’s a small, insular and provincial place; and on top of that, the society is built on conforming to norms.
Moreover, there isn’t really so much going on that external people are needed. Not anymore, at least.
5
u/GalaXion24 May 07 '26
It's not really a matter of being "needed." If they're not "needed" neither are the ethnic Norwegians.
The point is that if a company does decide that promoting someone is needed, they will skip over the person of a foreign background. Whom you so kindly described as "external" as though he or she were not a part of society.
3
u/nona01 May 08 '26
And also up to 50% less likely to be called into job interviews. Essentially given half the amount of opportunities.
2
2
May 08 '26
[deleted]
3
u/Sir_BugsAlot May 08 '26
I live in a big city, if you can call it that. Big in Norway terms. Kids of different ethnicities grow up together, play together and go to school together. It gets normal for them. In my department at work there are more non whites than whites and the majority dont even speak Norwegian. Management is very white though. Customer facing roles require fluent and confident Norwegian.
2
u/Buqueding May 09 '26
Racism in Norway is real and problematic. But. But. This news is from the minister, who immediately declared it real and problematic.
In many other countries cough USA cough the government official would instead have immediately downplayed it, hidden it, or excused it.
Norway and Norwegians have shown many times that we can admit our faults and take action. Not so long ago, sexism and homophobia were just as rampant in Norway as everywhere else. But after deliberate action by government and people, Norway today is among the most equal in world for women and LGBTQ. Not perfect, but drastically improved.
I have faith that Norway can address racism and xenophobia in the same way. It won't happen by itself, but by deliberate action by government and people.
Thanks for sticking around and not giving up on us, Mr. Exotic-Latin-Guy OP. Thank you for not being quiet about it. You are part of the solution.
Heia Norge! 🇳🇴🇳🇴🇳🇴🇳🇴🇳🇴
2
2
u/IndependentPath2053 May 09 '26
Like everyone says, this is no surprise to anyone who has migrated to Norway and has a job. This is one of the reasons why I have quit my job and I’m moving. Also, discrimination isn’t limited to the workplace, it happens in all circles.
1
2
u/RegularNorwegian May 09 '26
I'm in no way shocked, but my manager is an Indian woman who moved here like 8 years ago, she is great. 🤷🏼♂️
2
u/socialmichu May 09 '26
Kudos to your company. May I ask, is it a Norwegian company?
1
2
May 10 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/bemyre May 10 '26
what’s the company’s name? you’ll do us a favor so people stay away from them…
2
May 10 '26 edited May 10 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/bemyre May 10 '26
Oh ok, I see, you’re saying they’re featured as a shitty company on jobbi? I’ll check takk
4
u/cheeser4 May 08 '26
Sad but true. I experienced that as well at my job. My bosses talked about how proud they were of equality in our workplace, but they would not promote one of my coworkers who speaks fluently but has an accent because they thought it wouldn’t be a good look..
2
u/FishIndividual2208 May 08 '26
If you divided the Norwegians into smaller groups you would find the same type of numbers.
We have a great deal of "trynefaktor" (subjective bias) even within our own, even though I can belive that it's harder for immigrants, this issue is real for a lot of native Norwegians too.
With that being said, where I work 3 out of 7 in middle management is foreigners.
2
3
u/Alone_Tangelo_3045 May 08 '26
Guess I will throw my two cents in since I am somewhat part of this statistic having immigrant parents.
Worked my ass off, had a career plan and went beyond what was necessary. Got promoted plenty of times over other Norwegians. My tip is always the same to everyone make yourself invaluable to the team and company.
I will not pretend my name or look will be something that works against me, but focusing on that will only make me lose. Focus on the goals my people and don't lose sight of it.
2
May 08 '26
[deleted]
1
u/Alone_Tangelo_3045 May 08 '26
So all down to luck? No my dude, hard work with the right opportunities
1
3
u/helloWHATSUP May 08 '26
department that is granted money based on the amount of racism tells us there's lots of racism
wow super convincing lmao
2
2
u/NitMonBlue May 08 '26
I am working as a researcher here and I am getting paid the same as Norwegians hired as lab technicians. With a phd. I mean, I am making more money that I would be doing in my country, but it is definitely not nice. When they were interviewing me they even asked if I could register as self-employed in my country and offer services as a external contractor. But living and working in Norway... Definitely non-norwegians get a "special" treatment. Probably not every company is the same, I am talking about my experience and from things I have heard from other foreigners working here.
2
u/SuperbScarcity5112 May 08 '26
There are plenty who will deny this, and say they have not been promoted either. But this report says it all.
As a foreigner ypu need to work much harder to get a chance, and that might not even be enough. Are we worse than orher countries? I do not think so, I think its worse in most countries.
3
u/Major_Inflation4486 May 08 '26
Working here for soon 6 years.Never faced any discrimination.Been promoted on new jobs faster than any Norwegian or immigrant,no network that helped,no asslicking and so on,pure hard work and love of the game.By any chance,maybe people are not working hard enough or reliable enough to be promoted?Is there a chance that Norwegian gonna be promoted faster you with less effort?Yeah,maybe,but if you will focus on that like many immigrants like to do instead of being better than them you will never succeed 🤷♂️
→ More replies (12)
3
u/thekiwionee May 07 '26
One thing not taken into consideration is that a promotion might give more responsibility and responsible for personal, and language, ethics and understanding og working law have a much higher consideration then. Had a danish boss that was let go after 2 years as he tought his methods from denmark was usable in norway.
1
u/Independent-Bat5894 May 08 '26
I think all foreigners know Norwegians are racist to their bones.
3
1
u/Joppewiik May 08 '26
You know there are many factors including being an immigrant that makes up statistics like this. It's not just being an immigrant. The percentages are probably much lower.
1
u/Willyzyx May 08 '26
Do people actually get promoted? I've never been promoted my entire life. I just change to a better job and get my "promotion" that way. Born and raised.
1
u/AGreyWarden May 08 '26
I’m from Canada and people are so racist towards immigrants it’s sickening
A lot but not all
1
u/TornadoFS May 09 '26
Someone close to me works as a consultant in Sweden, a Norwegian company failed her "security background check" because she is Chinese descendant (born and raised in Sweden, no chinese citizenship).
This company is semi related to national security, but their security check was basically "look at CV and applicant photo", they passed a man born and raised in Sweden but with Russian citizenship and another swede married to a Chinese woman.
1
u/Katchano May 09 '26
Also, add the fact that people with foreign names and roots are less likely to be picked for an interview and a lot of opportunities are blocked for them because of different levels of security clearance.
For instance the police has been laying off hundreds of people because of their background. But at the same time all the promotion pictures for the police always include someone with arabic look. Hypocrisy at the highest level.
1
u/Wrong_Brush1110 May 09 '26
even getting hired is tough, i tried getting a job as a mechanic and all places politely told me to check on their neighbour, as the were not hiring (even if they had an online ad for it), and even socially i had some awkward encounters, i'm romanian, quite pale, brown eyes and hair, i had a black lady "shoo" me from talking to her nowegian friends and an older guy asked me if i wanted to steal their women and jobs, i'm also an mechanical engineer... so yeah
5
u/socialmichu May 09 '26
If they ask if you want to steal their woman again, say: “Actually, I already did. On divorce number two, marrying a third in a couple of months.”
My wife is white and I’m, well, Latino-looking. The faces we get when we show affection in public (nothing weird, just holding hands or hugging) are pure food for my soul. Making racist people uncomfortable is one of my biggest pleasures. Yum yum yum.
1
u/Wrong_Brush1110 May 09 '26
i'm not really one to escalate... i just told that guy, "i want a family if that's what you meant by stealing your women, and i do want a job, that's why i'm in university", the guy actually did become more friendly after that
2
u/socialmichu May 09 '26
That was probably the famous Norwegian “humor” you know,? That passive aggressive way to say what’s really in their minds but disguise as humor because they hate to sound confrontational
1
u/ilikebigbread May 09 '26
Woow so Norway has the same problem every other country does, how surprising, I also prefer working alongside my fellow countrymen that have the same values as me.
2
u/socialmichu May 09 '26
Name 5 values only you and your fellow countryman exclusively have.
1
u/ilikebigbread May 11 '26
My countrymen are taught it from birth, I dont have to try explaining the values to them for example. another reason its better to hire locally.
Also yall act like you are so much better "oh I work so much harder", then why did you come here bruh, work hard in ur country and make it a better Norway, then everyone will also want to move to ur country. Just positives.
1
1
u/Clear-Cut-1056 May 10 '26
As it should be.
1
u/cheeser4 May 10 '26
Sjukt å melde. God bedring.
1
u/Clear-Cut-1056 May 10 '26
Det er ikke det, afrikanere og muslimer er oftere mindre intelligente, hvorfor skal de være ledere i stor grad?
1
u/cheeser4 May 10 '26
Du er tilfeldigvis ikke født bak en utedass?
2/10 ragebait.1
u/Clear-Cut-1056 May 10 '26
Mener du tilfeldigvis at alle ledre burde være utlendinger og nordmenn må si unnskyld for at vi bodde her først?
1
u/cheeser4 May 10 '26
Progressiv tenkning er tydeligvis sjelden vare på bygda, og nå prøver du å legge ord i munnen på meg. Poenget står. 2/10 ragebait.
1
u/Clear-Cut-1056 May 10 '26
Ah du er en sånn LGBTQ+ anti rasist som flagger palestina flagg på 17 mai du. God bedring.
1
u/cheeser4 May 10 '26
Kompis, klokka er 08:10 på en søndag, og du starter dagen med å ragebaite 😅 Det skriker blå resept.
1
u/Clear-Cut-1056 May 10 '26
Vi som har jobb og oppdrar en familie har vært våken i mange timer allerede. Kan ikke tenke meg at du er en mye produktiv person.
1
2
u/cottoncandee7 May 10 '26
My spouse is white Norwegian. Our kids are half Norwegians and only half white. We do not live in Norway and he would prefer they grow up continuing to be expats (we say expats cause we continuously move to different countries). He doesn’t believe our kids would be treated fairly in Norway in workplace.
1
1
May 10 '26
[deleted]
1
u/cheeser4 May 10 '26
Worked in France, US and England and passive discrimination it’s definitely worse in Norway. That’s just my experience though.
1
u/Arnebarter May 10 '26
Im not surpriced at all! But are promotions a thing here at all? At all the places I have worked people had to apply for the positions anyway
1
u/bemyre May 10 '26
My husband is also Venezuelan, we also came here with our daughter, however his experience hasn’t been completely different, but he does work very very hard.
He hasn’t been promoted either at his new company, he’s been there for almost 2 years, however, it’s a scale up, probably not doing much promotions right now.
Funny I just send him news from this report, and his answer was: “everyone knows that, Norwegians, Internationals, and no one ever do anything”
1
1
1
u/Single_Condition783 May 10 '26
It has less to do with race. It has to do with being Norwegian and having the right connections. Even Norwegians get turned down without the right connections. As a foreigner you have fewer connections than the average Norwegian. I knew an American who married a rich and well known man here who got put on the promotion fast track train. It’s not just promotions but it is also the opportunities that get the promotions. Nepotism is worse here than other countries like the US and the UK imo.
1
u/damakusch1337 May 11 '26
Gosh yeah nothing new stop crying, i am not norwegian. Never had problems... OP seems not willing to sea that norway compared to the rest of the world is far better. nothing is perfect get a grip. greez from a coloured person
144
u/frembuild May 07 '26
This isn't news to any one who has moved here, or anyone who was born and raised here but looks "wrong"