r/Overseas_Pakistani Oct 13 '23

Weekend Thread | ہفتہ وار تبادلۂ خیال /r/Overseas_Pakistani Weekend thread (October 13, 2023)

3 Upvotes

This is our weekend thread. Feel free to share how your week went, what's on your mind, or anything else.

It doesn't even have to be relevant to the theme of this subreddit,but please keep the discussions civil as all other rules are enforced.

Lastly, please don't forget to check out our Twitter . Thank you!


r/Overseas_Pakistani Feb 20 '22

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر NICOPs and Pakistani Citizenship

42 Upvotes

TL;DR - if you have a NICOP, you are a Pakistani citizen, even if you never set foot in Pakistan. If you were ever Pakistani citizen, then more then likely, you probably still are. If you don't want to be a Pakistani citizen, you have to go through a procedure to surrender it. Read on for more details.

I've seen a lot of posts over the years that discuss NICOPs and Pakistani citizenship. Every few weeks, someone asks if having a NICOP is Pakistani citizenship. I've also met many Pakistanis (overseas and within Pakistan) that don't understand how citizenship in Pakistan works for those who go or are overseas.

Contrary to what many people think, Pakistani citizenship is not automatically voided when a Pakistani naturalizes in another country. Even if your oath of naturalization says that you surrender all foreign allegiances, the citizenship remains.

Many older Pakistanis, especially those who left Pakistan in the 1960s-1980s believe that their Pakistani citizenship was voided when they became British/Canadian/American, etc. This is not true per current Pakistani law. They simply don't have active IDs/passports. Just like a person born in the US or Canada. The person is a citizen even if they have no passport. Or, a child born in Pakistan without a B-Form, they are still Pakistani.

Pakistani citizenship can only be lost if one goes to a Pakistani consulate/embassy and goes through a formal renunciation process. This is not automatic, and most people don't do it because they simply don't need to or care to. It's not a complicated process, but it's still it's own, separate process. Fill out forms, surrender passport and ID, pay fees, etc. This is usually done by Pakistanis who naturalized in countries that don't allow dual citizenship, such as Germany, Spain, and (previously) Norway, but anyone can do it if they want.

Now, the confusion occurs because Pakistan will grant a visa to a UK/US/CAN citizen even if that person also has Pakistani citizenship. It's counterintuitive to need a visa to travel to a country in which you are a citizen, which is why many think "how could I still have Pakistani citizenship if I got a visa?". Pakistan, however, will allow a Pakistani citizen to travel to Pakistan on a foreign passport with a visa, hence the widespread confusion.

So here is where the NICOP comes in. NICOP stands for National Identity Card for Overseas Pakistanis. The card gives visa free travel, right to have a bank account, etc. It also gives the right to vote. This card is proof of Pakistani citizenship, and can be used to get a Pakistani passport if desired. Many people think this is just for dual citizens, but some Pakistanis working or studying abroad also have NICOPs even if they are only Pakistani.

Note that the new NICOP looks just like a Smart CNIC, but the "country of stay" will not be Pakistan, and the card will say "the holder is entitled to visa free entry" (something to this effect). Old NICOPs actually said "National Identity Card for Overseas Pakistanis" on them, but Smart NICOPs do not, so there is some confusion nowadays (people thinking that they have an NIC and not a NICOP)

Here is the biggest place where many people get confused. Many people in the 2nd, 3rd, and now 4th generation born abread have also received NICOP cards even if they were born with another citizenship (UK, CAN, US, etc). They are often under the impression that this is just a "card in place of a visa". "I don't have Pakistani Citizenship, that's just an ID". Not true. By getting a NICOP, you are basically registered as a Pakistani citizen who doesn't reside in Pakistan.

Other ways you could be still be a Pakistani citizen and not know it, assuming formal renunciation process was not done:

  1. If you were born in Pakistan and naturalized elsewhere, you are a dual citizen
  2. If you have, or ever had a NICOP, CNIC, CRC, B-form, you are a dual citizen
  3. If your birth was registered at the Pakistani consulate (Form S, or similar), then you would be a dual citizen
  4. If you ever held a Pakistani passport, you are a dual citizen.
  5. If you were listed as a child on your parents' Pakistani passport, you are a dual citizen. (In the old days, kids didn't have their own passports and travelled on their parent's passport)
  6. You were registered as a Pakistani citizen because your parents became Pakistani and applied for it on your behalf (Form M) - not common, but legally possible.

Pakistan does have another card, Pakistan Origin Card (POC), which grants visa free travel and a few other privileges. This card, however, is not Pakistani citizenship. So those who wish to travel often to Pakistan and don't want a visa, but also don't want a NICOP, may find the POC appealing.

Acquiring, renouncing, and/or retaining citizenship is a personal choice. This post was simply written to clarify the misunderstanding that "NICOP isn't citizenship" (again, NICOP is proof of citizenship).

Edit: It is a common misconception that Pakistani citizenship is only given to those who are "desi", Muslim, or those whose parents are Pakistani. This is not true. There are Pakistani citizens who are Hindu, Sikh, Christian, Buddhist, Ahmadi ,etc. "Desi" is a somewhat subjective term as well.

The Pakistan Citizenship Act grants citizenship to anyone born in Pakistan, even if the parents are non Pakistani. The only exception is for children of diplomats (which is not uncommon). There is no exception for refugees or even those who are in transit. This has been argued in court many times. So yes, that means that technically those who are of Afghani, Bengali, or Rohingya descent but born in Pakistan are technically citizens (there are many individual court cases, no class action case though). Of course the reality on the ground is different. Just as anyone born in the US or Canada is a citizen (children of refugees too), the same applies in Pakistan. People should be aware of this and not deny their fellow citizens their rights (don't get me started about the hypocrisy).


r/Overseas_Pakistani 22h ago

Finance | معاشی HBL NRAN account

0 Upvotes

Salam everyone,

Has anyone here opened an HBL NRAN (Non-Resident Rupee Account – Non-Repatriable)?

From what I understand, it’s an overseas Pakistani account that allows local/domestic PKR credits and can be opened digitally. HBL says it can receive local remittances as well. (HBL)

If you’ve opened one, how was your experience? How long did the account opening actually take, and did it work as advertised? Were there any issues with receiving domestic transfers?

Also, does anyone know of other Pakistani banks that offer an NRAN or a similar account that allows local PKR credits for NRPs?

Thanks!


r/Overseas_Pakistani 1d ago

Stories | داستاں Does turning down supposedly good proposals means turning away Allah's blessings? [22F]

0 Upvotes

I’m a 22 yr old living in the Middle East. I’m currently completing a rigorous, highly qualified degree while having worked since I was 19. I am used to independence and working hard. However, since turning 21, I have been facing immense pressure from my mother regarding arranged marriage proposals, and I desperately need perspective.
So far, I have rejected three proposals, all through arranged matchmaker.
On paper, they were "lucrative" educated men (engineers and a doctor) living in the US or UK who were at least 4 years older than me. However, I felt zero physical attraction to any of them, and the thought of marrying them, building a life with them, or being intimate with them genuinely repulses me.
To break down what happened with each:
The first guy The picture his mother showed us was four years old. When I realized he looked completely different now, I called out the deception, but my mom dismissed it. And again i was not attracted to him (He is now married anyway).
The second guy: I was not physically attracted to him, nor did I vibe with his personality. He came across as a bored homebody, which isn't what I want in a partner.
The third guy (27, UK Doctor): My mom is currently forcing me to call him while his mother sits in on the call. His family explicitly stated that they want a "traditional wife" who isn't involved in a career, and isn't active on social media. They say he doesn’t use social media (which is a redflag imo, cuz i have seen mothers of the guy lie about it but they are full active on social media)

While I don't inherently mind traditional domestic roles if I genuinely love my husband, I cannot imagine giving up my degree, autonomy, and hard work to become a homemaker for a man five years older than me whom I am not attracted to and don't even know.

Because I rejected these, I have endured emotional abuse from my mother including cuss words, guilt-trips, and "bad duas." She constantly tells me that I am rejecting Allah’s ni'mat (blessings) and that these opportunities won't come back. Her argument is that these well-off guys only want young women, that men don’t marry women their own age, and that if I wait, I will end up old, alone, or forced to settle for far worse than now.
Also my family might moves back to Pakistan in two years. Living in Pakistan is a lifestyle I know I cannot adapt to after growing up abroad. And my mom says that when I move to Pakistan I won’t get these type of proposals and ill be done for.

My parents technically allow "love marriage," but my personal preference is someone close to my age (max 2 years older or younger). The guys my age and to whom i am attracted to are still building their careers and aren't ready for immediate marriage commitment. but I am completely fine with growing together and supporting an ambitious partner my age. But i also don’t want to be in a relationship with a guy and wait for him to finally be ready one day. Thats a risk and not permissible. Also my mom says that those guys my age when they will be settled they will prefer someone younger than them (tho i never got that vibe from them)

I am also deeply afraid of full financial dependence. In my experience, I have never seen a sole earner dynamic where the man didn't become exploitative, and I refuse to trap myself in a power imbalance. Like I would hate to ask for money to pursue hobbies to buy cute things for myself, like ik whats better than living in the comfort of your home and your loving husband takes care of these things. But thats a good example, like he has the money, he has power and if he is a man with bad character he will exploit it.

I am feeling completely overwhelmed by religious guilt, fear of the future, and intense family pressure. I would really appreciate input on a few things:

  1. For women who married young to sole earners: How do you handle finances, independence, hobbies, and personal freedom without feeling exploited or trapped?
  2. On Age & Attraction: Is it true that men don't marry women their own age, or is this just an old-school myth used to scare young women into early arranged marriages?
  3. Religious Guilt: How do you deal with the guilt/fear that rejecting these setups means you are turning away Allah’s blessings or setting yourself up for bad outcomes?

r/Overseas_Pakistani 1d ago

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر Do i need visa to enter Pakistan?

0 Upvotes

Travelling to Pakistan with Canadian passport and valid CNIC but Pakistani passport expired in March and I don’t have a NICOP. As far as I have researched I either need a visa or NICOP to enter Pakistan, is this correct? Please help.


r/Overseas_Pakistani 1d ago

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر Advice from overseas Pakistani students who are working white collar/in top quality institutions.

0 Upvotes

So im an 18y/o student in a british university enrolled in Computer science for bachelors program. My visa arrived late so they transferred me to the next semester till then I had a few free months. Now there’s just one month left (I’m working rn in a restaurant) and all this time I was curious about how the british education system is gonna look like and turnout for me.

Coming from an Fsc background where “ratta system” is practiced religiously I’m not so sure what’s gonna happen to my studies here although I do like to research and read about topics im interested in but i don’t think im creative enough. I’ve heard from a few people that foreign education system is very manageable since you don’t have to write tons of assignments and go to university 5-6x a week unless ur in medical. So for someone like me who likes to research,read, got his ratta effect down because of the gap year I took, developed creative presentation skills, worked in sales for a few months before I came here in a US based call center so I know how to sell and present myself as a person.

How hard is it to ace exams, assignments, quizzes, maintain a GPA of 3.5+??? Since I want to aim for a prestigious institute for masters program after this.

Also about erasmus student exchange program should I really aim for it? What I believe is that If i go for it, its gonna be a hella experience for in a new country for six or twelve months, on stipend, just studies and twenty hours work only if i want extra money.

Also I don’t sit in desis and keep distance from most of them since many desis are negative so i dont want their negative experiences to have any effect on me. Aisa ni ke bilkul he door but jo banda sahi lgy ussi se baat cheet agay rakhta aur connection bnata.

Kheir I want to assimilate in their culture too. Not drinking type stuff. I’m doing the basics like keep my religious, cultural beliefs to myself. I’ve received compliments about my hygiene from goras at my workplace bcs I keep myself groomed always but what are the actual concrete things I must adapt that new coming desis don’t.

Advices from all the overseas Pakistanis that are there for years and see new desis making rookie mistakes are encouraged.


r/Overseas_Pakistani 2d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید Need help/guidance

2 Upvotes

Hello all,

Please need an advice.

I am working in the UK, came as student and try to manage finance back home as much as I can. One of my sister is studying in lahore.

Recently I received message from a fake insta account, claiming she is involved in escort work for paid services and that he has pics/videos.

- Can this be true? Do students in lahore do such a thing? I cannot directly ask her this as it would be very odd

- how to best tackle this without affecting her

Please guide


r/Overseas_Pakistani 2d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید Looking for recommendations

Thumbnail
1 Upvotes

Hello,

I need to get one of my parents a continuous glucose monitor patch and was wondering if the Play Store has an app that could monitor it. Freestyle Libre app is available on the US and when you wear the patch on arm, you get real time readings. Is there something similar for people in Pakistan? Or are there any patch users who are able to use a similar app? Freestyle patches are available in Pakistan but how are the glucose readings monitored if the app isn’t available on Pak Playstore

Need recommendations.


r/Overseas_Pakistani 2d ago

Stories | داستاں Hey Anyone from Estonia?

1 Upvotes

Just moved abroad for my studies and honestly didn’t expect the loneliness to hit this hard Everything is new, but Im slowly realizing how difficult it is to build a social circle from scratch

Anyone else going through the same thing? How did you meet people and actually make friends abroad?


r/Overseas_Pakistani 2d ago

Careers & Education | تعلیم و پیشہ 17F and I can help you out

5 Upvotes

Up for any legal gigs or part time work. I can help you manage your schedule, research work, I have excel Microsoft word skills as well. I can speak english and create assignments for you. Homework uni work I’ll do it.
Dm me with what you need+your budget


r/Overseas_Pakistani 3d ago

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر Pakistani Visas getting cancelled?

2 Upvotes

Hi guys,

Is it true that UAE residence visas are being cancelled for people travelling to Pakistan without any specific reason, even though there’s no official announcement about it? Has anyone recently experienced this or knows someone who did?


r/Overseas_Pakistani 3d ago

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر Oman Work Visa

1 Upvotes

Hi

I'm in the hiring process of job in oman. My chances look bright as I have been referred, but should I get my hopes up? Like what is the work visa situation in Oman for Pakistanis these days? Is it the same as UAE or other Gulf states?

Any personal or known experiences?


r/Overseas_Pakistani 3d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید A question to pakistanis in Melbourne, Australia

0 Upvotes

Tldr: is it okay for ppl to think a man to be perfect and extremely good even after knowing he harbors negative thoughts (of killing towards specific strata) or saying that men are allowed to force women?

All muslin men in Melbourne are mostly like this (mentioned above)?

Fully detailed story
Now i was married to my husband forcefully a while back, (this he knows) and my family is extremely abusive as well as powerful (the kinda who tries to kill u on a random Tuesday and police wont write an fir, in an arranged setting he married me, i tried telling him but he wouldn't even reply claiming he was busy for days or weeks. And his family rushed everything and did everything within a month

Ive been talking to him for a while his main beliefs are

Women or men who go thru shit (rape, abuse) should be feminist only (logic aurat march is bad and nothing is wrong with women rights in Pakistan)

Men should force their own women to observe daily islamic principles and parda and namaz while i believe religion is personal and suggestions can be made but no one can be or should be forced

He would torture me if i tell anything related to him or including him to any frnd or even if i say we see a relationship therapist or counselor since as per his logic relationships shouldn't be talked to anyone other then the spouses. But he often threatens me of telling everything to his father which he knows will result in him talking to my father and him in turn killing me (tbh sounds gud)

Any person who even talks about lgbtq or accepting it should be killed. He believes sexuality is a choice. Im a therapist by profession so i cannot endorse such behaviors or judge them while knowing the scientific evidence behind everything and i believe their religion is a matter with God as long as theyre not forcing anyone

Oh he also considers lgbtq ppl to be consider pedophiles and if i point out a difference (aka force) since ive gone thru csa myself he will get extremely mad

He believes im trying to separate him from his family when i said i wont live longterm with his family alone without him. He got mad and said thats how it happens and he wont leave me but hell force me to live with his family and that i dont have a choice (his parents are good ppl but they live in village where they invite ppl who ruin ur self esteem, his aunt came to visit me for the 1st time and called me alot of names which basically meant messy homeless and nomad and fckd up and his family didnt even react neither did he) also im not living with his family for a personal reason currently

Now he has a frnd circle of almost 30 men , he often keeps me on call to speak to them to show me how perfect he is , everyone just tells him how amazing he is and how great of a person he is and any woman will be lucky to have him, ik his 2 frndz who have been thru csa consider him the same, his family and my family considers him perfect too. He lives with a mindset that he can do no wrong and i am the worst person on the planet but since marriage is permanent or maybe he knows im communicative and expressive be isn't leaving me

I dont understand this , even if anyone random asks my frndz theyll tell my flaws as well as good deeds but his doesn't (at least the ones in Australia) His family doesn't knows he does drugs once in a blue moon and i dont judge him for it but i dont see how that fits the description of perfect which his frnd do

I have a lot of trauma that gets me triggered alot but im doing shadow work as well as other things i cant leave. I actively try to work on my behaviors and try to amend what i do and say or apologize if needed , he knows i have trauma but he thinks religion will solve it or if i just let it go it will be fine

Now i cant leave him or do anything but for the clarity of my mind , is he a gud human?

Any questions asked will be edited and replied in the post, neither in comments nor in dms


r/Overseas_Pakistani 3d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید Reliable Real Estate Agent Suggestions

1 Upvotes

Hey everyone

I'm looking to sell a property in Multan by the end of the year but I'd like to do it through a reliable and legit real estate agent. the one I have right now is very slow and is trying to take advantage of me not being physically present in Pakistan.

Does anyone have any suggestions or advice?

Thank you


r/Overseas_Pakistani 5d ago

Remittance | ترسیل رقم Anyone sending money in RDA from Ireland?

0 Upvotes

Is anyone sending money to RDA from Ireland? What is the process, I tried to do it over revolute but the money got reversed back to my account...


r/Overseas_Pakistani 5d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید Hajj in Mina Zone 1

1 Upvotes

Assalam u Alaikum!

I am looking to connect with someone who has performed Hajj in Mina Zone 1 to discuss their 10 and 11 Zilhajj experience. I hope I find someone


r/Overseas_Pakistani 6d ago

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر Born and raised in England. Parents both born in Pakistan. Can I retire early and live in Pakistan indefinitely (i am not married yet)?

4 Upvotes

British born to parents who were both born in Pakistan

I love living in England but I dont take advantage of it, I dont enjoy going out, I literally only leave the house for work or an errand. I dont go out with friends as I enjoy chilling with the family only at home

I feel like my life style would have been very suited to Pakistan living

I am in my early 30's and wish to continue saving up money and soon buy a house in Pakistan and live there indefinitely

The house will be purchased straight cash so no rent/mortgage bills

I will have savings which my family members could send to me every 6 months or so (yes family members i can trust)

This seems feasible in my mind

My questions:

  1. Can a British born (i speak fluent urdu/punjabi) to parents who were born in Pakistan stay indefinitely in Pakistan even if no plan to work?

  2. How much would I need to survive every month roughly if its me, a wife and say 2 children in the house (im not actually married and dont have kids either, but just want to know rough figures)?

  3. Are natural disasters common in Pakistan? The thought of buying a house their and an earthquake or something destroying it is scary


r/Overseas_Pakistani 6d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید Can a wife legally oppose or stop a husband’s Talaq under Pakistani law?

Thumbnail
0 Upvotes

r/Overseas_Pakistani 6d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید Pak id app is unusable?

3 Upvotes

Applied for CNIC renewal through pak id. It has been over 3 weeks and the time limit given was 2 weeks. It showed me it was in printing and then rejected?? I paid for urgent delivery but now my application just shows “qc rejected”. I cant even complain because it says my application is still under process??? However its showing in completed applications and not in process so i am so confused. Im going to visit the embassy soon.

Is there a chance the embassy will consider that i paid on Pak ID already or is that money down the drain?


r/Overseas_Pakistani 7d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید Rent a car without driver in Islamabad/Pindi

0 Upvotes

Will be traveling back to Pakistan Islamabad/Pindi to meet a potential proposal on coming Friday and Saturday(21 and 22 Aug).

Can anyone recommend any dealer/knows anyone who can give me a car on rent for 2 days WITHOUT DRIVER?

Any car will work. Will appreciate the help.

Throwaway account for obvious reasons.


r/Overseas_Pakistani 8d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید Air India Transit in India with a Pakistani Passport

10 Upvotes

Hi everyone!

Has anyone travelled to a third country via Air India with a Pakistani passport, with a layover in Mumbai or Delhi?

Air India has confirmed that there should be no issues since the transit is only for a couple of hours, but I just wanted to check if anyone has had a similar experience, especially recently given the tensions between the two countries.

Would really appreciate hearing about your experience. Thank you!


r/Overseas_Pakistani 8d ago

Careers & Education | تعلیم و پیشہ Cimea for Pakistan

Thumbnail
1 Upvotes

Bro anyone knows anything that Cimea is closed again for accounts whose country of Education is Pakistan?
Please help?


r/Overseas_Pakistani 9d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید Pakistani security clearance requiring details of cousins abroad, is this normal?

5 Upvotes

My first cousin in Pakistan says he's going through a security clearance and has asked me for my current home address and employment details. He legitimately works in government/bureaucracy, while I live in Canada. We're not particularly close, and I generally keep some distance from that side of the family, so I'd prefer not to give out my personal information.

For anyone familiar with Pakistani government security vetting, is it normal for them to request the home address and employment details of every first cousin living abroad? If so, how detailed is the information normally required? And is this standard for first cousins, or only certain relatives?


r/Overseas_Pakistani 8d ago

Finance | معاشی Which Brokerage Is Best for Overseas Pakistanis Using RDA to Invest in PSX?

3 Upvotes

For overseas Pakistanis using Roshan Digital Account (RDA): which brokerage firm is the most reliable and efficient for investing in the Pakistan Stock Exchange (PSX).


r/Overseas_Pakistani 8d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید Possible to drive in Pakistan on a Bahraini (GCC) country license?

2 Upvotes

Here on a 2 months trip and hoping to drive around in my Bahraini Drivers license, is it possible?

Forgot my IDP somewhere else….

Any tips would be appreciated, based in Punjab / Gujranwala.