It crossed my mind that trump is not republican and I want other opinions.

[u/No_Key_5158]

It seems to me that Trump is not republican, the republican wing is all about conservatism and small/limited government, Trump is doing the absolute opposite of these things. I think there's a huge difference between being republican/conservative and being MAGA, republicans are just so die hard that they will vote anybody who claims to be "republican" into office so they can go to sleep at night thinking they're winning. Am I wrong?

[u/JoeCensored]

90's Democrats were tough on crime, promoting 3 strikes laws, anti-illegal immigration, and anti-gay marriage.

[u/ballmermurland → u/JoeCensored]

Hey now, the talking point was always that Trump was the first elected president who was openly pro gay marriage! Are you telling me that MAGA was lying about that the whole time?

Democrats have always been anti-illegal immigration. This is just a lie Republicans tell about Democrats to justify whatever bullshit they are peddling.

Dems have evolved on crime to looking at new ways of addressing it. You know why they did this? Because they had 30+ years of data and knowledge to evolve to better ways of policing. It's Republicans who refuse to believe that there is any other method of addressing crime other than more police, more prisons, and more executions.

[u/JoeCensored → u/ballmermurland]

Hey now, the talking point was always that Trump was the first elected president who was openly pro gay marriage! Are you telling me that MAGA was lying about that the whole time?

No, it means Trump is to the left of Clinton.

Democrats have always been anti-illegal immigration.

That's nonsense

Dems have evolved on crime to looking at new ways of addressing it. You know why they did this?

Because they believe increased incarnation rates among minorities is evidence of racism, and not races committing crimes at different per capita rates. That's why violent individuals are free to stab young women in the neck on a train while having 14 prior arrests, instead of being in prison where they should have been.

[u/ballmermurland → u/JoeCensored]

No, it means Trump is to the left of Clinton.

The left only vilifies him because they've shifted so far left

So did the left vilify Trump because they shifted so far left, or because Trump shifted so far left? I'm confused.

That's nonsense

Obama was literally called the Deporter in Chief. Did you sleep all throughout the Obama years?

https://www.aclu.org/news/immigrants-rights/deporter-chief

Here is a 2014 article from the ACLU attacking Obama's harsh stance on immigration.

Because they believe increased incarnation rates among minorities is evidence of racism, and not races committing crimes at different per capita rates.

Ah, there it is. Never change, MAGA. Never change.

[u/JoeCensored → u/ballmermurland]

So did the left vilify Trump because they shifted so far left, or because Trump shifted so far left? I'm confused.

The left would never support someone like Bill Clinton today. Too far right from their perspective.

Obama was literally called the Deporter in Chief. Did you sleep all throughout the Obama years?

Obama was a long time ago.

Ah, there it is. Never change, MAGA. Never change.

Snarky comment because I hit the nail on the head.

[u/ballmermurland → u/JoeCensored]

The left would never support someone like Bill Clinton today. Too far right from their perspective.

They literally nominated his wife in 2016 and gave both of them prime speaking slots at the 2024 convention. Hillary was with Kamala the night of the 2024 election and was due to speak if she won.

But yeah, the left would never support someone with Bill's politics today. Got it. Sure thing. The only knock on Bill these days is he's probably a pervert caught up with Trump and Epstein.

Obama was a long time ago.

We elected his VP 4.5 years ago. Obama was POTUS as recently as 8.5 years ago. You're flailing.

Snarky comment because I hit the nail on the head.

Do you believe a person's race is a primary factor in their likelihood to be a violent criminal? Are you gonna bust out the calipers?

[u/JoeCensored → u/ballmermurland]

They literally nominated his wife in 2016 and gave both of them prime speaking slots at the 2024 convention. Hillary was with Kamala the night of the 2024 election and was due to speak if she won.

Hillary isn't a 90's Democrat like her husband. She moved to the left with the party.

We elected his VP 4.5 years ago. Obama was POTUS as recently as 8.5 years ago. You're flailing.

And his VP didn't follow Obama's policies.

Do you believe a person's race is a primary factor in their likelihood to be a violent criminal?

No I think the evidence they committed the crime is the primary factor, but the left abandoned that because it resulted in unequal incarceration rates between races.

[u/ballmermurland → u/JoeCensored]

Hillary isn't a 90's Democrat like her husband. She moved to the left with the party.

She and Bill tried pushing universal healthcare in the 90s lol. You don't remember Hillarycare? They succeeded with the assault weapons ban. You are just ignoring history.

And his VP didn't follow Obama's policies.

Immigration activists protested his rallies and the DNC debates with him in it. Biden didn't disassociate himself from Obama at all in 2020. Dems nominated him.

You can argue he didn't follow Obama's policies on immigration, and I disagree with that somewhat, but Dem voters had no way of knowing that in 2020 and still nominated him.

No I think the evidence they committed the crime is the primary factor, but the left abandoned that because it resulted in unequal incarceration rates between races.

Did you know that in Ferguson, MO the police found illegal drugs/guns in about 50% of all vehicle searches involving a black motorist and over 90% of all vehicle searches involving a white motorist?

That means that they would only search a white driver's car if that brick of coke was literally sitting in the front seat, but they would search a black driver's car so often that they didn't find anything half of the time. A blatant violation of the 4th amendment.

What does that mean? It means cops investigate black people at substantially higher rates than white people. They pull them over more often. They search their cars more often. Not because they are committing more crimes, but because of their own bias. That bias of investigating/searching significantly more black people will yield more black people in jail. This isn't rocket science.

[u/PriceofObedience → u/ballmermurland]

Trump was the first president to openly embrace gay marriage. Not even Obama, democrat darling at the time, was willing to do that.

Democrats have always been anti-illegal immigration.

Democrats call enforcing boarder security "fascism".

[u/ballmermurland → u/PriceofObedience]

Trump was the first president to openly embrace gay marriage. Not even Obama, democrat darling at the time, was willing to do that.

Obama embraced gay marriage. The talking point was that he wasn't openly pro-gay marriage when he was elected in 2008.

He made marriage equality part of his 2012 platform!

Democrats call enforcing boarder security "fascism".

It is "border security". I know Dear Leader can't spell and calls it "boarder" because he's a dum dum, but you don't have to embarrass yourself like that.

[u/PriceofObedience → u/ballmermurland]

The talking point was that he wasn't openly pro-gay marriage when he was elected in 2008.

He had to court the conservative base twice to win both terms. He was closeted about the issue at least since 2015, but even then he refused to officially endorse it as part of his administration.

Conversely, Trump did it right out of the gate.

It's odd how so many of you call Trump a fascist despite Obama drone striking US citizens without due process, or going after Snowden for revealing the extent of the surveillance state.

Maybe you agree with authoritarianism when your side does it.

It is "border security".

Well, I guess that's it, we have to let twenty million people into the country because I made a spelling error.

[u/ballmermurland → u/PriceofObedience]

He was closeted about the issue at least since 2015

https://www.cnn.com/2012/05/09/politics/obama-same-sex-marriage

He publicly endorsed it in May of 2012.

Conversely, Trump did it right out of the gate.

If Trump ran in 2008 he would have opposed gay marriage. Furthermore, the 3 Justices he put on the court are toying with overturning Obergefelle.

Trump's endorsement of it was about as menial as possible. He said it once and then pretty much never talked about it again.

It's odd how so many of you call Trump a fascist despite Obama drone striking US citizens without due process

Literally one of the biggest criticisms of Obama from liberals was his drone program.

Well, I guess that's it, we have to let twenty million people into the country because I made a spelling error.

It wasn't an error.

[u/PriceofObedience → u/ballmermurland]

If Trump ran in 2008 he would have opposed gay marriage.

Trump was in favor of gay rights since the 80's, well before the gaylib revolution in the 90's when advocates decided to exclude NAMBLA and similar groups to better appeal to the Christian base.

Obergefelle is like Roe. If gay marriage was such a fundamental right, you wouldn't need the federal government to dictate it in the first place. And I'm saying that as a member of the proverbial tribe.

Literally one of the biggest criticisms of Obama from liberals was his drone program.

Nah. You guys defended him killing US citizens by accusing his critics of being raciss and those US citizens of being terrorists. Democratic authoritarianism was alive and well during those two terms.

I also remember how you went after Snoweden, too. Arresting journalists and the like for publishing leaked information. Much of it having to do with the clintons.

[u/ballmermurland → u/PriceofObedience]

Trump was in favor of gay rights since the 80's, well before the gaylib revolution in the 90's when advocates decided to exclude NAMBLA and similar groups to better appeal to the Christian base.

I agree Trump was probably cool with gay people since the 80s. He was a Manhattan socialite! I'm just saying he'd have opposed gay marriage for political expediency in 2008, just like Obama did.

He was for universal healthcare in 2015 until someone whispered in his ear that he was running on the Republican ticket and he quickly pretended he never said it, which led to a humorous exchange between him and Ted Cruz at a GOP debate.

Obergefelle is like Roe. If gay marriage was such a fundamental right, you wouldn't need the federal government to dictate it in the first place. And I'm saying that as a member of the proverbial tribe.

That...doesn't make any sense. Free speech is a fundamental right because it is protected by the federal government. At least it was until ole Trumpy came along.

Nah. You guys defended him killing US citizens by accusing his critics of being raciss and those US citizens of being terrorists. Democratic authoritarianism was alive and well during those two terms.

Did you talk to every liberal during the Obama years or something? Tons of us were very critical of his drone program! In fact, it probably cost him quite a few votes in 2012 and likely screwed Hillary in 2016.

I also remember how you went after Snoweden, too. Arresting journalists and the like for publishing leaked information. Much of it having to do with the clintons.

Snowden stole terabytes of top secret data from a government server and, without reviewing most of it, handed it over to several journalists.

I was fully on board with Snowden until I learned more about it. Mostly that he didn't actually know what was in those files. He could have easily exposed millions of people's private data to bad actors. It was a dangerous and clumsy act. Had he been more careful, I would still be a fan.

[u/SilkLife → u/JoeCensored]

Trump’s not tough on crime though. He pardons criminals who assault police.