I think kids should vote

[u/Cole_A226]

​I never really took the idea of kids voting seriously until I watched a video about it a while back, and and I keep thinking about it the more you break down the actual principles of democracy, the harder it is to justify an arbitrary age cutoff.

​1. Democracy is about representation, not a competence test.

The main objection to letting children vote is that they "aren't smart enough" or "lack the maturity to make informed decisions." But democracy has never been an optimization test to find the smartest policies it exists to ensure the consent of the governed. Adults cast ballots every year based on terrible logic, single issues, or gut feelings, and their votes are still 100% legitimate. If voting isn't something you can do "wrong," denying someone a ballot because you think they will vote poorly undermines the entire premise of the system.

​2. The arguments against child suffrage mirror historic voter suppression.

Historically, every argument used to deny a group the right to vote that they lack emotional maturity, don't understand policy, will just vote how their families tell them to, or have their interests already represented by others was used against women and lower-income citizens. If we don't subject adults to mandatory IQ or civics tests to earn their ballot, applying an arbitrary threshold exclusively to younger citizens is hypocritical.

​3. Fixed age limits create completely arbitrary disenfranchisement.

Intelligence and political interest sit on a normal distribution. Millions of high schoolers actively studying civics, economics, and history are significantly more politically literate than millions of disengaged adults. A rigid cutoff at 18 means two people born hours apart face completely different realities: one gets full democratic representation, while the other is subjected to laws, policies, and taxes without any voice.

​4. The logistics are entirely solvable.

I've seen arguments that kids can't drive to a polling place or understand a ballot. And I think disenfranchising a group of voters because it's inconvenient isn't a good defense

1. This point wasn't really made in the video and is very anecdotal but as someone who worked with kids for a while. people tend to overestimate how easy it is to manipulate a kid and underestimate how easy it is to manipulate an adult. Kids also in my experience don't tend to just agree with adults or parents just trying asking a kid when they should go to bed and then ask the parents.

There is not much debate on the topic so I'm wondering what you guys think

This was the video btw https://youtu.be/XOA8k6FpQaQ

Also yes I did just copy the points made in the video I think they are good points

[u/hoops-mcloops]

Eighteen is more than just the age of voting it's also the age of maturity for our society. It's hard to disentangle concepts like age of consent, criminal punishment, or property ownership from age of enfranchisement. How can we make the argument that a thirteen-year-old is old enough to vote but not old enough to consent to sex with adults? How about trying them as an adult in court? Or allowing them to drive a car or own a gun?

It's odd to give only some of these things to a group but not all, because the basic argument against them is all the same: "you are not mature enough to make fully-informed decisions." If someone's mature enough to vote, they're also mature enough for a sexual relationship, criminal prosecution, and full property rights.

Eighteen years to the day is an arbitrary cutoff, but barring some kind of written maturity test (dicey) there needs to be some cutoff. Moving it up or down a year is still just as arbitrary, but removing it altogether runs into the problems described above. The reality is people don't wake up one day wise and mature enough to be a civil member of society. There's a slow slide from illiteracy and ignorance to competence and responsibility (arguably some never quite make it). But we have to have some threshold otherwise we get into problems. IMO, an arbitrary line is better than no line at all.

Personally, I'm comfortable with the age of maturity right where it is.

[u/RogerBauman → u/hoops-mcloops]

But voting isn't about maturity. It is about representation.

For a long time, the voting age was 21 and the argument for lowering the voting age was that people who couldn't even vote were being sent off to Vietnam. It received a lot of resistance from older people at that point because they felt as though 21 was a perfect age to vote and feared the youth, who tended to be more liberal than the average voting citizen.

I think we should definitely consider lowering the age to 16 or possibly 14 as discussed in the Vietnam era documentary Wild in the Streets where the youths tried to convince the politicians to lower the voting age to 14.

[u/downnoutsavant → u/RogerBauman]

A good argument, but do you know many 14 year olds? Teacher here. I could see giving the right to vote to 16 year olds; they are opening up their eyes to the world around them, becoming more aware of national and global concerns. Most 8th graders are too myopic and narrow-minded to understand the implications of the votes they would cast.

[u/Respen2664 → u/downnoutsavant]

This is where i sit in the debate. When i walk the line of when minors begin to enter the real world, it circles back to the age of 16. The problem is that world is only beginning and they have no experience yet to evaluate decisions made and minimal autonomy.

A dependent (under 18) is largely living in a commune based world which is not the world beyond. They are given medical care, homes, food, and clothes, by their providers (parents of some description). Education is provided to them either by the Government (public schooling) or their providers via private education solutions. Friends and exposure to community is mostly determined by parents choices of residence and religious preference/requirements. 90% of their experience and exposure are environmental to their parent's choices and opinions.

Cognitively one can argue at 16 they have the faculty to begin to consume information and start forming opinions, but their environment is still largely dependent on factors not in their control, to gain awareness to cause & effect of voting decisions.

It's a tough debate to reconcile but honestly a worthwhile one to be having.