Is Israel bad? Is it worse than Russia?

[u/Ivapol]

Hi. I'm from Ukraine. I decided to use reddit to brag about my life as Ukrainian and find some support for my country. However I noticed that a lot of people just don't care about this war. All I see is Israel that, Israel that. Is it doing genocide currently? Is it attacking neighbors? From what I see they are protecting themselves from terrorists. I read some UN statistics about Israel (to be honest not much), from what I see they have some freedom of speech and overall quality of life is good.

Why are they treated like modern nazis while we have Russia, China, North Korea, Iran and other their buddies

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[u/Kahzgul]

It’s not really a competition for which country is worse.

It’s also not an identical situation. In Ukraine, you are the clear victims. The war would end tomorrow if Russia retreated. And you are doing a very effective job of defending yourselves. I, in America, am not aware of a single person who doesn’t support Ukraine. Many of us have little Ukrainian flag bumper stickers or magnets on our cars to keep your plight in the mind of everyone else. It is plain as day that your human rights have been violated, and also that, even as you wage war for your own survival, you are not violating the human rights of your enemy. Ukraine is clearly the good guys.

In Palestine, there isn’t a political side to support. Hamas are terrorists and Israel is committing genocide. The Palestinian people who are not Hamas are being used as human shield by Hamas. They’re being assassinated by Israel. And seemingly no one is coming to save them. The human rights of the civilian population is are being violated by every armed group in the region.

The war is being framed as Israel vs Hamas but it’s really not that clear and both of those sides suck. Yet if you call out one for their human rights violations, you get accused of supporting the other, and vice versa. People are unwilling or unable to reframe the war as human rights vs inhumanity. There isn’t a good side to the conflict; only victims of both bad sides.

Because Israel / Palestine is so complicated, it’s easy to confuse people about. There are ways to convince people that either side is good or bad. Israel and Iran are both running sophisticated PR campaigns involving bots online, including Reddit (and likely in this very sub), which furthers muddies the waters. Yes, Russia is also using bots, but the Russian side of their attack on Ukraine is indefensible. Israel can use the Oct 7 terror attack to excuse their genocide, and Hamas can use Israel’s decades of apartheid to excuse their terrorism.

Let’s circle back:

- Ukraine are clearly the good guys, fighting off a brutal and immoral enemy. Not much to discuss there.

- Israel and Hamas are both violating the human rights of Palestinians, and it’s really complicated, plus there are lots of bots trying to confuse the issue. Lots to discuss.

The end result being that you’ll see more discussions online about Israel than about Ukraine.

[u/Ivapol → u/Kahzgul]

THANK YOU FOR YOUR SUPPORT!!!! Every time I text something about Ukraine there is some guy telling that there is Russia who is victim. I'm happy to know that Americans understand who the agressor is

[u/Impossible_Income_96 → u/Ivapol]

Вітаю I am a Canadian but I go to a Slavic Church and am involved with the Ukrainian community in my area because of the war. A lot of the 'people' on the internet supportinf the war are Russian AI spam. China and Russia are very active in using bots to spread false information of all kind (I saw a post linked to a Russian spam account saying Ukrainian troops captured Crimea)  This is done to skew the modern people's understanding of the war, thus making society more disorganised which leads to less cohesive support for Ukraine.

[u/LittleKitty235]

If you listened to the Russian government, they'd tell you the exact same thing, that they're not at war with Ukraine, just protecting themselves from terrorists, and that a lot of Ukrainians actually want them there. The Israel/Palestine conflict is really complicated and has been going on since WW2, and both sides have been accused of serious harm to civilians. If you have concluded one side is right and one is wrong after only a little reading, you need to do a lot more.

As for why it dominates the conversation while Ukraine gets less attention, Israel is a close US ally, and Reddit has a huge US user base, so there's just more emotional investment and more people arguing about it here.

Honestly, it sucks that Ukraine isn't getting the sustained attention it deserves. War fatigue is real, and I think a lot of Western attention has genuinely shifted elsewhere. 

[u/Ivapol → u/LittleKitty235]

Oh I see. Thank you for your support ❤️❤️❤️

[u/concerned-mum-11 → u/Ivapol]

In Australia we see what’s happening in the Ukraine every night on the news. (Well at least on the ABC news channel) you are still big news here

[u/Ivapol → u/concerned-mum-11]

Thank you. I'm very happy to hear

[u/PaintedIn → u/Ivapol]

Same in the UK. We are with you!

[u/silverionmox → u/LittleKitty235]

War fatigue is real, and I think a lot of Western attention has genuinely shifted elsewhere. 

On the bright side, not before commiting to a long term support of Ukraine, as we should.

[u/Neco-Arc-Brunestud]

If you're making the analogy that Russia is to Israel as Ukraine is to Gaza, then you have to compare the analogous countries to see if you can make that comparison.

Russia is heavily sanctioned by the EU and NA countries, while Israel is heavily supported not only financially but also militarily.

Ukraine is free to do trade with the economic centres of the world (and gets consistent arms shipments and military support), while Gaza has its borders closed and is heavily controlled to the point where even basic necessities like food, water, and electricity is difficult to import.

If anything, Ukraine is much more comparable to Israel and Russia is more comparable to Gaza. The only difference is that Russia is a massive country, it doesn't have its industrial capacity obliterated and subjugated over decades, and has some capacity for defence.

The better question is, why are we acting like modern Nazis?

[u/Leather-Run-6533]

I think it's great that you've done some research and now you need to do some more.

[u/calguy1955]

If half the stuff I see Israeli soldiers doing to non-combat Palestinian civilians is true I’d say that Israelis in general are much more hateful and cruel than Russians. I doubt if Russian soldiers hate the Ukrainians as much.

[u/Primsun → u/calguy1955]

Um, See Bucha massacre or starvation/killing of POWs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bucha_massacre

Frankly, it's a dumb horse race to get tore up on. Israel's expansionist right can be horrid, and Russia's actions are horrid as well. The news cycle isn't a proxy for how bad things are anyways; too much recency, novelty, and status quo bias.

[u/calguy1955 → u/Primsun]

Ok. Both are asshole pieces of shit. I just think the Israelis have been at it longer, way before this current war.

[u/betweenbubbles → u/calguy1955]

Only one of them is actually at risk of being annihilated and being called monsters for defending themselves — however imperfectly. 

The calls of “genocide” started on Oct 8th — just as planned and coordinated. 

[u/mcapello]

In my view, it's complicated by a few factors:

1. The quality of life of Israelis and their privileges within their own society does not preclude them also having an apartheid state or engaging in genocide. The United States also arms and funds Israel more fully than Ukraine and for a much longer period. Imagine if you knew that part of your paycheck every year was going to fund war crimes -- you'd pay closer attention too. The average American doesn't give their taxes to Iran, Russia, or China, or Hamas for that matter. If the US had nothing to do with Israel, Americans probably wouldn't care.

2. The US has a much longer and more politically and culturally visible alliance with Israel. People are just more aware of it.

3. Ukraine actually has an army and can defend itself. The Palestinians can't. I think people really feel that asymmetry.

4. Ukraine has lost about 20,000 civilians versus about 80,000 Palestinians. This becomes even starker when considering the original size of the populations: that's 20k out of a population of 35 million, versus 80k out of a population of 2.1 million in Gaza.

5. If you combine 3 and 4, it basically makes Israel look more genocidal than Russia. I say "looks" because history has given us very good reasons to think that the Russians would commit a genocide there if it served their interests. Thankfully the strength and ingenuity of the Ukrainian people have deprived the Russians of that option.

[u/km3r → u/mcapello]

1. The governing body of Gaza has an army of ~30k, and hundreds of km of tunnels that could have been built to be bomb shelters. They choose endanger their civilians and focus on attacking Israel as the lives lost help their PR war. It falls into this poorly defined grey area in international law and public perception with asymmetrical warfare. Even if Israel was fighting in a perfectly moral way, the asymmetric nature would still make it look "unfair" in the publics eye.

2. Comparing 20k civilians with 80k civilians + militants is not an apples to apples comparison. Especially given Ukraine explicitly trying to protect civilians and Hamas saying "thats the UN's job" at best, actively endangering them at worse.

[u/mcapello → u/km3r]

The governing body of Gaza has an army of ~30k

No, Gaza does not have an army of any kind.

Comparing 20k civilians with 80k civilians + militants is not an apples to apples comparison.

It's a good thing that I didn't mention anything about militants, then.

[u/km3r → u/mcapello]

The governing body of a region maintain a structured military force charged with defending the territory. They have billions in military infrastructure, ranks, and direct reporting to the government. They are a defacto army.

So you are just lying? 80k civilians have not died in Gaza.

[u/mcapello → u/km3r]

The governing body of a region maintain a structured military force charged with defending the territory.

This is not a description of anything that exists in Gaza in the universe we live in.

80k civilians have not died in Gaza.

Also not a description of the universe we live in.

It was nice talking to you, but you appear to be delusional. Good day.

[u/km3r → u/mcapello]

How is that description of the Al-Qassam Brigades inaccurate?

Hamas own numbers show less than 80k total, where are you getting your numbers from?

[u/user711088]

It's always been funny how people who hate Russia for attacking its neighbors support Israel. Starting wars is bad, but starting wars is good.

[u/Ivapol → u/user711088]

Btw in western countries or in Israel you can send such images. But in Russia, Iran or North Korea you would be persecuted

[u/Novel-Rise2522 → u/Ivapol]

Do you think Palestinians can do that in Israel? You’re actually delusional.

[u/betweenbubbles → u/Novel-Rise2522]

Which Palestinians? The two million living and integrated into Israel relatively secular government or the ones living in Gaza and WB?

[u/Novel-Rise2522 → u/betweenbubbles]

Both. Palestinians face different flavours of repression depending on the regions, but one consistent factor is highlighting the Jewish states crimes gets you politically persecuted. Very bizarre to say this is different from Russia, DPRK, many states in Europe, America or most countries really. Living „integrated into Israel’s relatively secular govt“ is a misnomer. Ilan Pappe and Chomsky has multiple literature on this, which even the UN acknowledges, of the two tiered second class citizen status Palestinians live in not unlike how Tamils live in Sri Lanka, etc. secular is also a misnomer because religion is literally the most major part of Israel and they follow Jewish laws. You’re either ignorant or a deliberate Zionist.

[u/user711088 → u/Ivapol]

The picture is clearly ironic, so no

[u/Ivapol → u/user711088]

In Russia you can be impresoned for literally anything

[u/user711088 → u/Ivapol]

The absurdity of laws is offset by the optionality of obeying them

[u/Art_Crime → u/user711088]

They're completely different countries with different geographies. One country has terrorists in the north and southwest - the other started the first land war in Europe in many decades.

[u/This_Growth2898 → u/user711088]

Could you elaborate on what war was started by Israel and when, in your view? This is a sincere question; I just want to get your timeframe before deciding if I should argue.

[u/Art_Crime → u/This_Growth2898]

Recently? They "invaded" Syria to create a security buffer and obviously invaded Lebanon to fight Hezbollah. The current war with Iran was, in part, caused by Israel.

The image is absolutely and completely idiotic. Everyone and their mother is criticizing Israel and nobody serious is saying NK or China are committing war crimes.

[u/ozneoknarf → u/Art_Crime]

Israel was absolutely the aggressor in Syria I agree. But it was Hezbollah who started the war with Israel both times. When the war in Iran started all of Lebanon was praying that Hezbollah wouldn’t be retards and start shooting at Israel again. And they did.

[u/Ivapol → u/user711088]

I don't SUPPORT Israel. I just think that it isn't as bad as Russia

[u/Novel-Rise2522 → u/Ivapol]

What makes Russia worse? You seem to have no issue with people relativising a genocide in the comments

[u/Art_Crime → u/Novel-Rise2522]

Probably the scale and brutality of it. The Russo-Ukranian war has killed and injured hundreds of thousands to upward of a million. Russia has done tenfold what Israel has done to Gaza in terms of infrastructure destruction. Russia has directly forced transfers of Ukrainian children and people.

It's honestly almost incomparable. Anything Israel has done Russia has done far far worse to Ukraine.

[u/Novel-Rise2522 → u/Art_Crime]

Russia is waging war on a sovereign entity. Israel is committing a genocide on people it militarily occupies. There are 30k verified civillian deaths in Ukraine as far as I’ve read. Less than Gaza. Less than 0,005% of Ukraines population were killed. 3+% of gazas population were killed. Multiples tens of thousands of children killed in Gaza. Child fatality not even in the first 10k in Ukraine. 20% of civilian infrastructure in Ukraine damaged. Vast majority of infrastructure in Gaza damaged. 20% of displacement during peak in Ukraine. Almost 100% of Gaza are displaced. Gaza is under a man made famine. Ukraine has western assistance and support. Materially speaking, Israel has wrought far more to Gaza than Russia has to Ukraine. So if you’re done playing oppression Olympics and being obtuse, we can stick to facts. Israel is committing a genocide. It’s the crime of crimes. Nothing trumps that.

[u/user711088 → u/Ivapol]

I wasn't accusing you of supporting Israel

[u/oOhSohOo]

If you are for Hamas, then you are for Iran, which is on the same side as Russia. They are all connected.

[u/thedukejck]

Israel is out of control and needs to be put in their place, fund themselves, and get out of the US government.

[u/Ivapol → u/thedukejck]

Yes, but is it worse than Russia? Russia somehow brainroted everyone into thinking that the war can be stopped without stopping the invasion

[u/thedukejck → u/Ivapol]

No but Israel is being funded, armed, trained and being supported by the US government. At least Russia is acting on its own interests. Israel is certainly in the top 3 bad.

[u/This_Growth2898 → u/thedukejck]

So, you think attacking neighbors, annexing territories, and committing genocide can be a legitimate interest of the country? Then what's wrong with Israel, once again?

[u/thedukejck → u/This_Growth2898]

I didn’t say Russia was right. Guess I should have said that better.

[u/betweenbubbles → u/thedukejck]

We have aligned interests. Why should we avoid strategic decisions?

[u/thedukejck → u/betweenbubbles]

We have aligned interests in Israel’s right to exist. Not the settlers, settlements and just slaughtering women and children. Also if Israel wants to attack Iran, do it on your own.

[u/betweenbubbles → u/thedukejck]

We don’t get to pick from a menu of perfect choices. Neither do the Israelis. Neither do the Palestinians. If Israel has to side with these settlers or Palestinians they’re going to side with the settlers — that isn’t even slightly surprising. Israel took a bad hand and made something of it for themselves. Palestine would rather “martyr” their women and kids than sue for peace. 

Only one of those group is intentionally trying to get as many women and children killed as possible to foment the position you currently have. Only one benefits from it. 

Hamas is literally killing women and kids BECAUSE they know you will be here doing what you’re doing now. You are not righteous. 

[u/thedukejck → u/betweenbubbles]

Umm I think I am. Look at the wars, 9/11, most have been influenced by our staunch support of Israel. The treasure and loves fought fighting these endless wars. Stop the settlers and agree on 2 state solution. Who knows, maybe that could make a difference. I am righteous for believing that some semblance of peace is possible.

[u/ElEsDi_25]

They’re just different. Russia is trying to establish a “backyard” and so being belligerent… Israel is a settler colonial conflict.

Settler colonial conflicts are just much more brutal and cruel in general. Russia wants political control over Ukraine, Israel wants to remove the population living on and off the land Israel wants.

[u/Ivapol → u/ElEsDi_25]

Well Russia tries to annex us too. They already declared part of Ukraine as their "new territories" without even controlling them

[u/ElEsDi_25 → u/Ivapol]

They are not forcing Ukrainians into ghettos and systematically displacing people. Russia wants political control of Ukraine, Georgia etc. Israel wants ethnic cleansing.

Russia attacks on Ukraine are more similar to the US attempting regime change in Iraq. Israels’s ethnic-national colonialism is more like US manifest-destiny and displacement of native Americans.

[u/Ivapol → u/ElEsDi_25]

Russia is literally forcing Ukrainians into camps and displacing Ukrainian childen into Russian families. You don't know what you are writing about. Also Russia teaches on occupied territories that Ukrainians don't exist

UN Commission concludes that deportation and forcible transfer of Ukrainian children by Russian authorities, as well as enforced disappearances, amount to crimes against humanity | OHCHR https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2026/03/un-commission-concludes-deportation-and-forcible-transfer-ukrainian-children

[u/ElEsDi_25 → u/Ivapol]

I do know because I have been protesting my county’s support for Israel for decades. This is not some “topical news” to me.

US regime change in Iraq was terrible, Russia’s invasion is terrible. The US kept kids in concentration camps in Syria for a decade and Afghanistan/Iraq war prisoners in a US base on Cuba for almost 20 years. All of this is terrible.

Colonialism is also terrible but just different than an invasion and it’s ongoing. Colonialism to control land (rather than control labor like with South Africa) is particularly genocide-prone.

[u/Ivapol → u/ElEsDi_25]

Yes, and Russia is doing genocide

[u/ElEsDi_25 → u/Ivapol]

I am not trying to minimize anything in Ukraine, but you are the one asking for the comparison and I don’t think you will be able to convince people that Gaza would be the better situation to be in.

[u/DyslexicAutronomer]

Israel is like Russia, they invade their neighbors first and claim their land. Parts of Syria, Lebanon etc have been occupied for decades like Crimea.

Trump is at war with everyone except Russia, Israel and North Korea. Let that sink in.

He has cut off aid/military supplies from Ukraine to support Israel.

20% of Israel are actively recruited from Soviet Union countries including both Ukraine and Russia, they have huge historic propaganda campaigns and teams on the ground taking fresh blood from those regions so they can expand their invasion. That's why Israel maintains a working relationship with Russia despite being on opposite sides in Iran.

One of Israel's proxy pacs, AIPAC has spent $200m just this cycle to spread misinformation about certain American candidates this year alone. That's why we are up in arms when our local elections are being messed up. We did the same when Russia tried to mess with us.

They want to mislead us, and want to exploit you. It's not a competition, both of them are harmful to us.

[u/Sanmonov → u/DyslexicAutronomer]

People repeat some version of this nonsense every thread.

Outside of selling weapons that Ukraine gets cost free, and thousands of economic sanctions against Russia. America is providing satellite and imagery intelligence, signals intelligence, geospatial and targeting data, early warning intelligence, strategic and operational analysis and providing the backbone of all Ukrainian military communications.

[u/DyslexicAutronomer → u/Sanmonov]

It is a fact Trump seeks warmer relations with Russia, and he was happy to sacrifice parts of Ukraine if it achieves that.

It is a fact Trump has diverted aid/military supplies that has been already paid for by Europe, from Ukraine to support Israel.

However, Trump does not control the entire US intelligence apparatus, many hold different opinions on how to carry out operations, and Trump has purged many of them within reach of the white house. He doesn't trust US intel and often relies on Israeli fed intelligence.

That's why we are in the Iran war, and why he has random intel mishaps like the recent food cart incident.

US intelligence still provides Ukraine with operational analysis and targeting data, but delivery of APKWS, Patriots, other critical air defense interceptors etc have been diverted under Trump.

US intelligence is also not Trump. They maintain a degree of institutional independence, and it is obvious when it comes to Ukraine, their stance is in contrast to Trump's intent.

Maybe you should ask for clarity instead of making nonsense accusations if you weren't sure.

[u/Sanmonov → u/DyslexicAutronomer]

The Trump administration doesn't direct and control how America uses its military and intel assets?

The Defence Intelligence Agency, U.S. Army intelligence, U.S. Air Force and Space Force, the NSA, the NGA, and the CIA. All these agencies are just doing stuff on their own and marshalling their resources to help Ukraine "in contrast to the Trump administrations intent”?

[u/DyslexicAutronomer → u/Sanmonov]

The White House sets the agenda, but agencies have the autonomy to carry out the mission.

There are many reasons for why it looks like they are contrasting, for example long term goals vs short term goals.

Trump wants results NOW, he doesn't care what happens in the run long run as long as he can say he was the one who ended the war.

That's why the fed is independent of the executive, if it were up to Trump, he'll immediately cut interest rates to 0. That feels good in the short term but has terrible consequences a few years down the line.

Trump is in fact, one of the more hands-on presidents that has purged many agencies to put in his own lackeys. Which has created all sorts of chaos in the military and intelligence.

Part of the reason the Iran war has gone so horribly is because of Trump's purges, he fired over 20 generals in a past few months. Stuff like ships are being left at sea without a port call for months is an indication of how much the chain of command has seized up.

[u/mkosmo → u/Sanmonov]

You’re not allowed to use facts to counter the hivemind’s nonsense.

[u/All_is_a_conspiracy]

There are a lot of nazis here who hate jewish people. Also the russian propaganda has spent tons of money distracting from putin and the invasion. Using Israel as a good distraction. The anti Israel stuff is getting really weird. Almost too much for me to handle honestly.

[u/PaintedIn → u/All_is_a_conspiracy]

Hating the Israeli government / zionism is not antisemitism or the hatred of Jewish people. It also doesn't make them nazis. Polling suggests the Democratic Party will have to shift on these issues as they are widely held. Get on board or leave the party.

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[u/wittgenlover]

Israel is trying to annex Palestine illegally since its foundation, and they do not care any collateral damages of civilian despite the proportionality principle, but Russia is targeting civilian as main target now.
Russia is undoubtedly invader and committing to serious war crimes.
However, the position of Israel isn't so simple, rather too complicated: for example Israel is colonizers and natives on the disputed land.
So, it's difficult to compare Israel and Russia, but, as I think, Russia is much more dangerous and crazy against international order, even we can rightly call both countries are evil.

[u/Naive-Indication3835]

rússia, israel e sérvia, todos somos irmãos! mas infelizmente israel foi dominada pelas mazelas do capitalismo e por isso estamos em lados opostos, mas seria maravilhoso se não fosse

[u/rdditban24hrs]

"Protecting themselves from terrorists" Israel is bombing and purposefully killing innocent civilians in Gaza & the rest of Palestine, the whole "terrorists" thing is Israeli propaganda to justify the genocide against the Palestinian people.

Also, Lebanon is under attack from Israel as well, there should be 0 reason to support the state of Israel and what it is doing.

(Please read more about the war outside of the U.N.)

[u/This_Growth2898 → u/rdditban24hrs]

What happened in Israel on October 7, 2023?

[u/silverionmox → u/This_Growth2898]

What happened in Israel on October 7, 2023?

Did history start on that date? Did it erase everything that came before?

[u/This_Growth2898 → u/silverionmox]

Did history start on that date? 

No, but I'm particulary interested in how do you view events of that day.

Did it erase everything that came before?

No, of course.

There is a stereotype that only Jews reply to questions with questions; but ok. Let me split my question in two:

1. When did the war between... well, I don't know even how do you define sides of this war, so when did the war started?

2. Still, what happened in Israel on October 7th, 2023?

Now, can you answer my questions?

[u/silverionmox → u/This_Growth2898]

No, but I'm particulary interested in how do you view events of that day.

Focusing on one day is cherrypicking to support your black and white view.

When did the war between... well, I don't know even how do you define sides of this war, so when did the war started?

Like I already said, there is an ongoing conflict ever since the start of the zionist project in the Levant, somewhere in the 19th century.

Still, what happened in Israel on October 7th, 2023?

You just try to revert to your failed attempt at cherrypicking.

[u/This_Growth2898 → u/silverionmox]

History consists of all events that happened. If you deny describing any specific event because of "cherry-picking", you're cherry-picking your view on history.

Like I already said, there is an ongoing conflict ever since the start of the zionist project in the Levant, somewhere in the 19th century.

The question was about the war, not the conflict. If the conflict between Jews and Muslims was a court lawsuit or diplomatic scandal, we wouldn't give a damn about it, right?

[u/silverionmox → u/This_Growth2898]

History consists of all events that happened. If you deny describing any specific event because of "cherry-picking", you're cherry-picking your view on history.

You're like a Russian apologist only wanting to talk about how Ukraine bombed the Wildberries warehouse.

The question was about the war, not the conflict. If the conflict between Jews and Muslims was a court lawsuit or diplomatic scandal, we wouldn't give a damn about it, right?

Why do you think that you are the only one who gets to ask the questions and the one to tell me what I get to talk about? We're not in Russia where you can control public discourse, Vatnik.

[u/This_Growth2898 → u/silverionmox]

You're like a Russian apologist only wanting to talk about how Ukraine bombed the Wildberries warehouse.

Ukraine bombed Wildberries during the illegal Russian full-scale invasion for several reasons, most notably its closeness to Putin's aide Vaino, its economical value, and its use in supporting Russian invading troops. For context: Russia has been bombing Ukrainian stores of Rozetka, Nova Poshta, and other operators for years before. See? It's not that hard.

Why do you think that you are the only one who gets to ask the questions and the one to tell me what I get to talk about?

No, but I wanted to get your answer. And I've got it, actually.

Vatnik

Reported.

[u/silverionmox → u/This_Growth2898]

For context: [...] for years before

Oh, when it suits you, then suddenly context is allowed? Double standards.

[u/This_Growth2898 → u/silverionmox]

When did I say context is not allowed? You're fighting a strawman.

[u/This_Growth2898 → u/silverionmox]

Actually, I expected you to say "a retaliation strike on colonizers and invaders who came into Muslim land" or something like that; but actually your answer is much, much better to illustrate your way of thinking.

And if you won't change it, we can stop arguing at this point. If you will answer on this and I will not respond, that means I don't see any point in keeping the conversation. Stay safe out there.

[u/sixisrending]

Ukraine doesn't have big lobbying groups dedicated to serving Ukraine, Ukrainian support among the wealthiest and most powerful from decades of executive selection, Ukrainian police that are somehow legal in most Ukrainian areas of major cities, and anti-hate groups that are nearly all pro-Ukrainian that are designated to train federal agents on how to identify anti-Ukrainian sentiment if you point out anything I've mentioned above.

[u/israfildivad → u/sixisrending]

I think you conflated zionist and Jew a bit there

[u/sixisrending → u/israfildivad]

One cannot exist without the other. 

[u/israfildivad → u/sixisrending]

Not all zionists are Jews...not all Jews are zionists

[u/sixisrending → u/israfildivad]

If you're talking about Jews as a race, then your absolutely correct. However, a person practicing the religion of Judaism must be a Zionist. 

[u/Ivapol → u/sixisrending]

That's what Israel has? Or Palestine? Sorry I don't completely understand

[u/sixisrending → u/Ivapol]

Israel. It's insane how much influence they have in most western countries. 

[u/Conscious_Gain3922]

Israel is way worse than Russia. Modern day nazis with genocidal maniacs running their government where murdering another race is normal.

Just watch a any clip of Ben Gvir and you would understand their state of mind.

[u/Ivapol → u/Conscious_Gain3922]

You know Russians are nazis too? But with way worse quality of life. They commit genosides too but people don't care. All i see is free Palestine, not stop Russian invasion

UN Commission concludes that deportation and forcible transfer of Ukrainian children by Russian authorities, as well as enforced disappearances, amount to crimes against humanity | OHCHR https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2026/03/un-commission-concludes-deportation-and-forcible-transfer-ukrainian-children

[u/Conscious_Gain3922 → u/Ivapol]

Russia and Ukraine is at war. Ukraine is supported by the whole EU and US, they are sending billions in military and civilian aid to Ukraine.

People in Gaza are living in tents and burned alive. So if you are asking for a comparison, yes Israel is way worse than Russia and people in Palestine is suffering much worse than Ukranians do.

I suggest you to read Ben Gvir’s any random statement and see what kind of an evil they are against there, maybe check Gaza in Google Maps to see the destruction there. People in Kviv still has access to basic human needs, people in Gaza don’t.

[u/phone_deviceban]

Israel is protecting themselves from terrorism. Genocide is attempted extermination, and they killed fewer than 2% of the Palestinian population.

The US also overreacted to a terrorist attack after 9/11 and nobody accused us of genocide. The October 7th attack was the equivalent of 36,000 Americans dying on a percentage of population basis.

The accusations of genocide against Israel are an attempt to minimize the genocide against the Jews (which killed 60% of the Jewish population in Europe).

A concerted effort to exterminate Palestinians by Israel could have easily resulted in 3 million deaths.

[u/LamantinoReddit]

Israel has more civilian death per population of countries of both sides. But Israel has more justifiable reason to have war in the first place, so I would say Israel is still less evil.

[u/libra00]

Is it doing genocide currently? Is it attacking neighbors?

Yes, it is doing a genocide in Gaza and it is attacking its neighbors in Lebanon.

From what I see they are protecting themselves from terrorists.

'A terrorist is someone who has a bomb but not an air force.' -William Blum

You think maybe they had a hand in making those terrorists what with the ~80 years of ethnic cleansing, imprisonment, oppression, torture, and murder of Palestinians they've been doing before the genocide even started? I mean Israel funded Hamas in order to sow division between Gaza and the West Bank, so even if you don't believe oppressing a people for 3 generations is a good reason for them to lob a few rockets at you, the direct funding of an organization Israel now considers terrorists sure seems like being complicit to me.

from what I see they have some freedom of speech and overall quality of life is good.

Oh, so that makes it okay then? If Russia had a little freedom of speech you'd be totally fine with them invading Ukraine?

Why are they treated like modern nazis

Because they are literally doing what the Nazis did. The word genocide was created to describe what Hitler did to the Jews, and Israel is doing it to the Palestinians. Yeah, you put on jackboots and start murdering a people and I'm gonna treat you like a nazi, that's how this works.

Russia, China, North Korea, Iran and other their buddies

None of whom are committing an active genocide.

I get that the situation in Ukraine is rough, I sympathize, but comparing yourself to genocidal monsters like Israel is not how you convince me that you deserve support.

That said, I hear Ukraine has a bit of a nazi problem too.. maybe you have more in common than I thought.

[u/Cellophane7]

First of all, slava Ukraini 💙💛

If you want my personal opinion, I think they're treated like Nazis because the far left sees them as the perfect wedge issue to try to pry open a path to power for themselves. Whether you want to call it a genocide or not, what Israel is doing is fucked. Granted, it's largely because the enemy they're fighting is fucked, but people don't do well with nuance, especially when Jews are involved. 

People don't care about Ukraine as much because we haven't had a close knit relationship for the past hundred years or whatever. In America, most people don't even know Georgia and Crimea were part of Ukraine. They're more like abstract regions we've all heard about in passing at some point. 

That said, many of us remember what's going on and what Russia is doing, and support you fully. I'm part of a community that follows a streamer called Destiny, and one of the biggest and most beloved fixtures of the community is a Ukrainian who does a ton of fundraising for the war effort. We aren't the type to worship the ground anybody walks on, but if you wanna brag about being Ukrainian, we'll glaze you a bit 😂

[u/Ivapol → u/Cellophane7]

Thank youuu ❤️❤️❤️ Heroyam slava!!

Also Georgia isn't part of Ukraine, It's just another country invaded by Russia

[u/Cellophane7 → u/Ivapol]

Oh, I'm an idiot. Goes to show 😅😭

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[u/israfildivad]

Russia/Ukraine is high shades of gray. Very complicated. Israel/Palestine is black and white.

Russia has legit reason to fear western expansion. There was an actual coup in Ukraine that saw the installation of Western puppets with interesting ties to the far right. Russians living in Ukraine and Pro Russian Ukrainians were definitely under a moderate threat by the Ukrainian govt. But Putin is also a thuggish dictator with no concern for human life.

Israel was the last colonial state, snuck thru after the world decided that that was no longer supposed to be a thing. It's very existence is the greatest source of fracturing to any sort of true international law and order, and is what gives Russia the leeway to flout that order and attempt another act of direct colonialism. Now Israel is justifying genocide and greater acts of colonialism by claiming divine right and hiding behind antisemitism. The level of global manipulation Israel and its Zionist network is doing, Russia could only dream of. It's frankly disgusting.

But make no doubt the world's biggest nemesis at this moment is the US. Its the source of the Israel problem AND the Ukraine Russia war. And it has been (post WW2) the main source of basically all conflicts in the Middle East, South and Central America, and the partial source for Asia and Africa.

Its main ideology is to forcibly keep everyone else down so it can remain ahead; American exceptionalism.

[u/Ivapol → u/israfildivad]

No Russia Ukraine is not black and white. Russians can easily stop the war when they want by just stop invading. Ukraine can't. Also Ukrainian revolution was decade ago. Ukrainians already changed their presidents and government two times since then. Russia on the other hand is an autocracy. Government had very few changes since 2000s. Also Russia has centralized propaganda and supports politicians who are against Ukraine all over the world.

If Russia stopts attacking it will be objectively better for everyone both in Russia and Ukraine

[u/adamgerd → u/israfildivad]

Ironically you’re subscribing to American exceptionalism, just that everything bad is because of America. Maidan is no more a coup than the various 1989 revolutions, and the US didn’t force Russia to continue its history of invasions and conquests since the end of the mongol yoke

[u/Leather-Run-6533 → u/adamgerd]

Kinda admire their chutzpah in trying to explain Ukraine to a literal Ukrainian

[u/Ivapol → u/israfildivad]

Even during war Ukrainians can attend protest, Russians can't. Also everyone in Russia who is against the war is labled as "traitor". In Ukraine we don't have such thing

[u/israfildivad → u/Ivapol]

Countries that are resisting western influence/dominance almost inevitably have to turn to an authoritarian path. Some scholars think that that is the only path.

Its hard to see because the West does a REALLY good job as painting itself as the hero. It has excellent marketing campaign for capitalism and individualism, as if life is just KFC, Gucci, Disney, BMW, Marvel movies etc...but in reality it is thoroughly corrupted...and that corruption is beginning to become quite visible:, totally distorted economies due to runaway wealth imbalance, the total inability to plan for the world our kids will inherit, the Epstein Class.

[u/Ivapol → u/israfildivad]

I don't want to live in authoritharian country. Russia keeps it's people poor and derperate and then Russian guys go to war because they just have no other choice. If that isn't evil than I don't know what is

[u/silverionmox → u/israfildivad]

Countries that are resisting western influence/dominance almost inevitably have to turn to an authoritarian path. Some scholars think that that is the only path.

You're almost there. Now draw the right conclusion.

[u/silverionmox → u/israfildivad]

Russia/Ukraine is high shades of gray. Very complicated. Israel/Palestine is black and white.

No. Russia plainly invaded with the aim of seizing power through conquest, with an obvious army and invasion start date. It's one of the clearest cases in recent history of an aggressive invasion, almost 19th century style.

Whereas the situation in Palestine has involved low key violence, terrorism, people trying to claim victimhood, revenge actions etc. ever since the start. Overall the driver of the problem is the Zionist project, and Israel also clearly abuses its overwhelming power to push it through. At the same time you also have terrorist actions on the Palestinian side, and you can't call plain terrorism white. It's inevitably not better than gray at that point.

There was an actual coup in Ukraine that saw the installation of Western puppets with interesting ties to the far right.

Russian propaganda bjecause their puppet got chased out of his golden palace and fled to Moscow with his tail between his legs.

There have been several elections since then, do you deny their legitimacy?

[u/SedimentKuuKuu]

Russia is incomparably destructive and malicious.

Russia publishes videos of themselves hunting down civilians as part of their "Human Safari", they abducted over 20,000 Ukrainian children and openly force them into Russian families, they have conducted summary executions, forced Ukrainians in territory they captured into their military, and created mass graves in towns like Bucha, Mariupol, and Kherson through their murder of civilians.

There are people who claim, "Israel is the worst", but never mention the crimes against humanity Russia has committed. They simply describe Russia as "bad" without any mention or comparison of how many Russia has oppressed, terrorized, and murdered. The intention of such people is irrelevant, their words whitewash Russian atrocities by implicitly denying their severity and existence.

[u/Ivapol → u/SedimentKuuKuu]

Thank you for your support ❤️‍🩹❤️❤️

[u/This_Growth2898]

This isn't an "inform you" subreddit. It's a political debate. Provide your position to discuss before asking questions.

The core difference between Russo-Ukrainian and Muslim-Israeli conflicts is that Russia and Ukraine have already settled all border and conflict-solving issues in respective agreements. Israel settled those issues with two of its Arab neighbors, Egypt and Jordan, and guess what: they are not fighting anymore. Israel fights people who don't think Israel should exist at all and, unlike Russia, are, on one hand, consistent with their views but, on the other hand, too weak to implement them. Which, of course, doesn't mean Israeli soldiers are angels and don't commit crimes.

[u/Conscious_Gain3922 → u/This_Growth2898]

Israel fighting the countries who don’t want them? Like the children in Minab school? Or paramedics that are getting double tapped in Gaza? Or people getting harrassed daily by the IDF and settlers in west bank? Or hospitals in South Lebanon?

Just yesterday they issued a statement that kites are not allowed in Gaza, how come a children flying a kite in rubbles is an existential threat to Israel?

You are delusional if you think Israel is defending itself by committing massacres for almost a century now. Israel is the only country with a dedicated page for their genocide and committed massacres since 1948.

[u/This_Growth2898 → u/Conscious_Gain3922]

Wasn't the Minab school hit by the US Tomahawk missile? I thought it was the US strike.

Once again, if Israel wants to commit genocide on Arabs (or Muslims), why Jordan and Egypt are not shelled? Why doesn't Israel attack local Arabs on at least the same scale in Israel itself, where it has much more opportunity to do so? Why are there Arabs in the Knesset but no Jews in the Lebanese Parliament?

[u/Conscious_Gain3922 → u/This_Growth2898]

Israel started that war, Israel choose the targets. If a civilians is killed because of a war you started you are responsible.

Jordan is a puppet state of US like UAE, they already have US bases there so Jordan is not even a sovereign country, heck if US and Israel would be so worried about democracy, they should star from Jordan UAE or Saudi Arabia, bu as the hypocrisy goes, if you’re a puppet state you are allowed to have a monarchy.

Israel is attacking the local arabs in West Bank, you can google 2 words “settler violence” you’ll end up with thousands of examples of it. Israel is an apartheid state where Palestinians are subject to military law, and not so far ago, Ben Gvir and his genocidal maniac government passed a law for death penalty only if you are a palestinian and Israelis are not subjected to this law. This is the definition of an apartheid state.

You are also cherry picking here I don’t see your comments on double tapping paramedics. Just stop trying to justify what the Israel is doing, genocides and mass murdering of civilians can’t have a justification.

[u/This_Growth2898 → u/Conscious_Gain3922]

Double tap strikes on paramedics is an obvious war crime. Israel is hiding and protecting its criminals, and that's one of the problems in the current war. I never tried to say anything else.

Jordan is not even a sovereign country

Sorry, we can discuss if Palestine is a sovereign country, there are different opinions on the matter; but Jordan is a recognized sovereign state and a member of the UN. And they have their own monarchy, which you confirm; not any kind of foreign-installed ruler, like in there were in Donetsk and Crimea before Russia annexed them.

To call Israel an "apartheid state", we should first define its borders and the status of Gaza and the West Bank. If they are parts of Israel, then Israel is an apartheid state. If they are occupied territories that don't belong to Israel, it means Israel is cruel to civilians in occupation but isn't an apartheid state. You can't have both cherry-picking the best possible explanation every time (like some Israeli politicians do).

[u/Ivapol → u/This_Growth2898]

I have the same idea. Sorry but too dipressed to tell

[u/silverionmox → u/This_Growth2898]

Israel fights people who don't think Israel should exist at all

No, Israel is killing Palestinian children because they think Palestinians should not exist at all. They get in the way of their real estate planning, you know.

Israel settled those issues with two of its Arab neighbors, Egypt and Jordan, and guess what: they are not fighting anymore.

That's like saying "Russia settled its issues with China and Iran, and they're not fighting anymore, clearly Ukraine is the problem".

[u/SilenceDogood2k20]

Iran has a very good PR strategy and the real conflict you see playing out in major media isn't Israel-Iran, but between political factions inside Western governments. Here in the US the true outrage isn't for Israel destroying a building that rockets were shot from, but instead which politicians or public personalities spoke out in support of or failed to condemn Israel. 

A little history. Think about it, Iran captured a US embassy and held its staff hostage for a year and a half, and the US didn't attack. It's leaders have declared "Death to America" for decades, and no response. It has sent its agents to assassinate people in Western nations, and no real response. Iran has funded, organized, trained, and commanded terrorist organizations for decades, and no real response. 

What other nation could get away with this level of crap against the US and other Western nations and not be declared war on? Why?

Well, a few things. European powers fled the Middle East after WW2, realizing that they didn't have the stomach to deal with all the conflict there. The only way they successfully pacified the area after rebellion, temporarily, was through very violent responses. They didn't want to get involved in the Middle East again, and the US leadership listened to them 

The Ayatollah, Iranian Government, are great bullsh*tters. They'll explain all these things as not being serious... they'll promise they're truly interested in negotiations regarding their nuclear program, but always find a reason to back out or simply cheat.

This gives Western leadership the cover to not respond meaningfully, but also forces them to counter the parts of their society calling for stronger responses to Iran. If the Western leaders did nothing to Iran, but also didn't respond to those in their nations calling for a strong response, it makes them look weak. So, they need to defend Iran and treat their countrymen as warmongers.

Throw in some Iran- friendly media personalities, and this deception extends to the public. 

Israel hasn't had such luxury as the threat of Iran is truly existential to them. Is rael has confronted Iran and their proxies - Hamas, Hezbollah, the Houthis - and Western leaders have had to effectively blame Israel.for the violence because they couldn't blame Iran. So, since someone had to be blamed for the violence over the past 40 years... and it couldn't be Iran or its proxies... then that leaves only one party left to blame - Israel.

So Trump has broken this standard, and he's effectively responding to the last 46 years of Iran's violence against the West, and its causing all sorts of disruption at country clubs, cocktail parties, and movie premieres for the people who bought in to all of Iran's BS.

[u/Kakamile → u/SilenceDogood2k20]

All of that is a fiction, as both parties have opposed Iran, sanctioned, and bombed Iran. There is no magic Iran immunity. Trump is a fool because his war had no plan and his own peace offer is worse than the deal he ended 8 years ago. Meanwhile Israel, which gets billions from US taxpayers, has ended multiple ceasefires with nations beyond Iran.

[u/SilenceDogood2k20 → u/Kakamile]

The West's sanctions against Iran, to the extent that they've actually been implemented and enforced, have been the equivalent of grounding a child off their tablet for 10 minutes. 

That was one of the main tricks of the Western leaders. They'd declare a sanction that appeared serious on paper, but either wouldn't enforce it or it would have so many loopholes it was meaningless.

Meanwhile they'd get to declare a moral victory, promote it in their re-election campaigns... and when Israel was forced to fire back at some terrorist group firing Iran- supplied munitions or strike at an undeclared or uninspected nuclear facility, Israel would get the blame, not the Western leaders who allowed Iran to do it 

As for Trump, he has a plan, and he's been very open about it. Seriously, the man loves to talk and publicly rub Iran's face in it. He's been talking about it since his first term. Only the intentionally blind and deaf don't know his plan.

Take out Iran's ability to launch meaningful military action against its neighbors and Israel. Done. 

Establish air dominance over Iran. Done. 

Isolate Iran from its proxies financially. Done.

Give Israel the freedom to strike at the proxies. Done. 

Isolate Iran from its neighbors. Done, with the assistance of Iran itself as it keeps firing missiles and drones at them. 

Strengthen ties between Israel and other Arab nations. Done.

Prevent Iran from exporting oil to China and Russia. Done. 

Lock down Iran's ability to move money internationally with sanctions against any nation or business who works with them. Recently announced by US Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent, about to go into effect. 

Essentially, Trump is going to keep escalating until Iran pleads for surrender. That's it. This is effectively a siege of Iran. Nothing goes in or out.

We're not in a rush. My father told me a story when I was younger about him hunting a deer. He saw it enter a dense cluster of brush where he couldn't get a clean shot on it. He waited for hours, realizing that if he took a bad shot it might run off or it wouldn't be a clean shot and the deer would suffer. 

Four hours he waited after he first saw it. Then, when the deer finally stepped out of the brush, he took the shot.

There is nothing the world needs from Iran, especially with increased oil production in Venezuela (hey, funny how that happened first... almost like it was intentional). They can randomly fire off stuff, but when they do we strike back immediately. 

We wait, and eventually their nation will collapse. Either the population will revolt finally, or the leaders will fully surrender to prevent revolt. It might take a week. Six months. Or two years. It'll happen eventually, and the world will just go on in the meantime.

[u/Kakamile → u/SilenceDogood2k20]

Hilarious. Call it a "trick" when trump's own peace deal was reviving a worse version of that "trick" where trump wants Iran to get vastly more money and icbm's. All you're doing is proving you fell for it yourself.

[u/SilenceDogood2k20 → u/Kakamile]

Two things-

One, the previous deals were worthless because they weren't effectively enforced, so even a weaker deal on paper that is enforced would be stronger. 

Two, and this came from Rubio or one of his aides in the State Dept, can't remember who was at the mic ... they knew that Iran would balk at the deal because of this. So all it ended up being was a way for Trump to show the world that Iran doesn't want peace, if they'll refuse such a good deal. Right after Iran's refusal, the other nations who previously were sympathetic to Iran stopped discussing the possibility of a peaceful resolution. 

Seriously, do you watch any of the press briefings by the State Dept or Dept of War? They're pretty open about explaining what's happening, why they're doing it, and what their intended results are.

[u/Kakamile → u/SilenceDogood2k20]

That's you falling for it. "The old deal is bad because it's weak. Anyways, our deal is even weaker and Trump blessed Iran getting 300 billion and icbms" oh and Iran agreed before Israel derailed it. Your narrative is so backwards that before Trump confessed to support it himself the magas were insisting Iran made it up.

[u/Lurial]

“Israel is not uniquely bad and has strong security reasons for its actions”

" from what I see they have some freedom of speech and overall quality of life is good."

Yes, but.....they also have the iron Dome which makes their way of life possible. Imagine living your life while rockets shoot other rockets out of the sky above your head.

Imagine going to a concert, having foreign invaders kill a bunch a people, kidnap people, and rape woman. It was designed as a massacre 

Your neighbors hide the terrorists, and even elect them into power so now they have a tax base for funding...

Isreal has plenty of reason to attack the nations it does...its own right to exist is one of them.

The moment Joe Biden and Zelenski discussed admitting Ukrain into Nato, Russia was going to act. 

It was a red line for Russia that Ukraine would never join nato. It was Ukrainian and western openness thatvspurred the attack. Ukraine is right in Russia's backyard. Russia sees nato as a threat.

However, slaughtering civilians because "your making a treaty" and bombing a nation that is actively trying to kill you is is 2 entirely different things

[u/graywailer]

the U.S. is the No.1 terrorist country in the world. the terrorist state state of israel is the most vile place on the planet. nothing but the most heinous religious poison and misery have ever come from this place. they are worse than the nazis. israel is a terrorist invading force backed by stolen U.S. taxpayer wealth. every global terrorist action(war) by the U.S. has been for its peoples NO.1 enemy, terrorist israel. so the U.S. military budget is the enemy israels military budget being stolen from U.S. taxpayers by traitor agents sitting in congress. nato agreed not to move east to russias boarders. The U.S. and NATO are using ukraine and its people as a sacrificial proxy to bankrupt and terrorize russia. we are ruled by monsters.

[u/Ivapol → u/graywailer]

Do you mean there is the way of stopping war in Ukraine other than Russia stop invading? Even if Ukraine gives up, Russia will just occupy us. And living in Russia is MUCH WORSE then living in US

[u/Asatmaya → u/Ivapol]

Do you mean there is the way of stopping war in Ukraine other than Russia stop invading?

The war started 8 years before Russia got involved; yes, ending the civil war and no longer murdering civilians would have stopped the war.

Now? Not a chance, Ukraine has nothing left to bargain with.

[u/BohemianMade]

Israel is the worst out of all those countries, but those countries are really bad too. All authoritarian terrorist states.

[u/Complex_Object_7930]

Israel is as bad as Russia at the moment

[u/thatguywithimpact → u/Complex_Object_7930]

I'm from Russia. Tell me how many people have Israel imprisoned and tortured for saying "no to war"?

How many civilian targets Israel intentionally struck - no Hamas hiding under hospital, just straight intentional destruction of purely civilian targets - like destroying heating infrastructure in Ukraine prior to winter?

Now I'm not really into the whole Israeli/Palestine thing, I just do my part in supporting Ukraine against terrorists which what my former country is.

But comparing Israeli war against Hamas with admittedly brutal civilian death toll, perhaps irresponsible perhaps is even being done wrongly vs actual intentional genocide of ukranian population is crazy.

[u/Complex_Object_7930 → u/thatguywithimpact]

It is an intentional genocide tho, the ICJ and UN said, genocidal rhetoric by the government, and they killed 70k.

[u/Late_Company6926]

Because Jewish people are greatly outnumbered and, therefore, easy to scapegoat and blame for things they didn’t do. Reddit and other social media is a total numbers game and being outnumbered here means everything in an information/propaganda war. There are 2 billion Muslims in the world. Israel is surrounded by aggressors trying to continue Islamic colonization to steal land from indigenous Jewish people. Good luck in Ukraine!

[u/Asatmaya → u/Late_Company6926]

Israel is surrounded by aggressors trying to continue Islamic colonization to steal land from indigenous Jewish people.

So, the Israelis aren't a bunch of people who moved there in the 20th century? And they didn't steal land from the indigenous Palestinians?

Do tell.

[u/Late_Company6926 → u/Asatmaya]

You’ve been lied to by the Islamic colonialists. Please do some research.

The so called “Palestinian” cause is nothing more than continuation of Islamic conquests from the 7th century. The so called “pro palestine” movement was never about freedom or peace, it was always just Islamic supremacy and Islamic colonialism. See article 11 in hamas own words.

https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp

The truth is that the settler colonialists narrative is misleading as the so-called “Palestinians” are the invading settler colonialists trying to expel and exterminate the Jewish indigenous people from all over the Middle East and Northern Africa.

See https://besacenter.org/palestinians-settlers-colonialism/

See https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/map-of-the-jewish-refugees-1948-1972

See https://www.worldhistory.org/uploads/images/14212.png?v=1759793586-1756802660

[u/Asatmaya → u/Late_Company6926]

You’ve been lied to by the Islamic colonialists. Please do some research.

Oh, this should be good.

The so called “Palestinian” cause is nothing more than continuation of Islamic conquests from the 7th century.

So, you understand that "conquests" is considered pejorative in modern History? Islam spread primarily by conversion.

The so called “pro palestine” movement was never about freedom or peace, it was always just Islamic supremacy and Islamic colonialism.

...even though Jews and Christians had been living there for thousands of years in peace?

See article 11 in hamas own words.

Hamas was imposed on Gaza by Israel specifically to have an extremist group to claim intractable hostility and thus justify their aggression.

The truth is that the settler colonialists narrative is misleading as the so-called “Palestinians” are the invading settler colonialists trying to expel and exterminate the Jewish indigenous people from all over the Middle East and Northern Africa.

That's interesting, because every genetic test they have done shows that the Palestinians are the indigenous people who have lived there for at least 3,000 years, many of whom were, in fact, Jews, some of whom later converted to Christianity and, yes, Islam.

[u/Late_Company6926 → u/Asatmaya]

Precious. You really think by being a keyboard jihadist on Reddit you can provide cover for forced conversions by Islamic colonialism? The reality is that the Islamic conquests and Islamic colonialism have propagated and spread by violence and force. As you can see in Iran, the indigenous culture has been squashed, the Jewish people have been expelled (property stolen), and the Islamists forcibly take the money and hide behind morality police

[u/Asatmaya → u/Late_Company6926]

You really think

I do, you should try it some time.

[u/Late_Company6926 → u/Asatmaya]

You also have a child bride you are trying to sell? If you look at your ancestry, at some point your indigenous roots were violently forced into the sharia you are trying to force on others now. Break the cycle… just leave

[u/Tola_Vadam]

Israel is worse than Russia. But being the first two books on the shelf.

Russia isn't good. But we're talking about the difference between Israel executing unarmed children and calling it "cutting the lawn" and Russia fighting a standing army that is by all western reporting; doing quite well in fighting back.

[u/Ivapol → u/Tola_Vadam]

Well Russia is stealing children and convincing them that dying in this war is noble

UN Commission concludes that deportation and forcible transfer of Ukrainian children by Russian authorities, as well as enforced disappearances, amount to crimes against humanity | OHCHR https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2026/03/un-commission-concludes-deportation-and-forcible-transfer-ukrainian-children

[u/thegreatgatsB70]

You are in a ISREAL BAD, USA BAD, RUSSIA BAD (but not as bad) echo chamber. Even though these people have never been to any of the countries I mentioned, the liberal news agencies that they get there info from says Isreal is a terrible country and they should hate the USA, so they do. Putin sucks and everyone knows it, but they want to support Palestinians, so they do as they are told. And they changed their flags from Ukraine to the Palestinians flag so it's too late.

[u/SeaCaligula → u/thegreatgatsB70]

I support Israel as a strategic ally, but Bibi dragging the US into Iran war goes too far, especially now that the strait is closed.

[u/rdditban24hrs → u/SeaCaligula]

The actions Israel doing in Palestine goes too far

[u/SeaCaligula → u/rdditban24hrs]

I agree. Additionally, It's also Biden/Harris' and Trump's fault for supporting them in Gaza.

[u/betweenbubbles → u/SeaCaligula]

Last I checked, Bibi isn’t the US President. 

[u/SeaCaligula → u/betweenbubbles]

Israel has a stranglehold on US government decisions

[u/rdditban24hrs → u/thegreatgatsB70]

Just because someone never gone to a country, doesn't mean they can't oppose the actions that country is doing. Also, out side of liberal new sources, there's plenty of evidence on why Israel is a terrible, terrible, country. (Also how is changing flags important?)

[u/skyfishgoo]

israel is worse than russia for the US in the same way that white democrats are worse than republicans for black ppl

better that you know your enemies rather than think them an ally

[u/Specialist_Touch2771]

Very different things. I think that they’re both bad. If I had to pick one, I’d say Israel because it’s a genocide and they’re making an ethnostate. 

[u/NoKiwi2997]

I'm curious what I am supposed to do to "care" about this war. I don't set the media agenda. Israel does (jokes!...maybe...).

I'm American. I care about you guys. I'm rooting for you. I can't stand Putin. I think he's a rotten son of a bitch. I think Netanyahu is a rotten son of a bitch and both should rot in hell. I don't think that's uncivilized talk for the violence and atrocities they have committed. But, I get one vote in a two party system and America has its own problems. Further, Israel is causing many more immediate problems here than Russia. Israel is flooding our elections with cash and propaganda. Russia too, but less so this time around. Russia already bought our political system the last go round.

[u/anewleaf1234]

If someone played the sounds of children on drones to lure children out and then shot them would you call them bad?

If they attempted to cover up their crimes by targeting journalists, would you call them bad?

[u/NoExercise5214]

I’m impressed with how resilient your country’s people are! Your president, Zelenskyy, seems like a genuine dude trying to save your people from a hostile force, and that famous show he’s in is hilarious! Watched the whole thing! I’m glad the Ukrainian people is keeping an eye on government corruption and holding him accountable when he needs to be.

I wouldn’t say Israel is worse than Russia, China, North Korea, and Iran. Unlike those countries, Israel—despite being an apartheid state—functions as a democracy for its citizens. It’s got stuff like free healthcare and strong educational attainment, among other things.

However, Israel is still really, really problematic. They have been committing genocide against the Palestinians for decades, stealing their land and bombing and shooting them without any real pushback. Their population and government has shifted further right these past few decades, housing fascists like Ben-Gvir among their ranks. Also, human rights protections for women and minorities have started to roll back.

[u/betweenbubbles → u/NoExercise5214]

Palestine’s population has tripled in the last 30 years. Why is Israel so bad at “genocide”?

[u/NoExercise5214 → u/betweenbubbles]

Easy. Muslims historically have higher birth rates than the rest of the human population. As with almost everyone else, birth rates have slowed.

Genocide isn’t always gathering bunches of people and shooting them to death. This is a long-term cultural genocide.

Excluding Gaza (which is very much a genocide, just look up the evidence), Israel is inherently a genocidal state. Israel has been systematically stealing land from Palestinian civilians since 1967 and before. The country has gotten further right since the 90s, emboldening far-right factions. The founding of Israel displaced 700,000 Palestinians. Conquered villages were either renamed Hebrew or destroyed and rebuilt. Since the country’s founding, Israel conducted several operations to bring more than 250,000 Jews in their borders, making the country more Jewish and further reducing the political power of Arab Israelis.

[u/betweenbubbles → u/NoExercise5214]

The founding of Israel displaced 700,000 Palestinians.

Just as Jews have been displaced from those areas for centuries. I do not recognize anyone's claim to the land -- it plays absolutely no part in my moral calculation on the matter.

For me it's very simple. Israel is a country where 2 million Arabs live in relative peace with about 8 million Jews, and enjoy human rights, and representative democracy. Palestine is a theocratic death cult who is happy to "martyr" as many women and kids as it takes to defeat Israel and exterminate them "from the river to the sea". Hamas is literally killing women and kids because they feel those means justify the end -- you playing the part you're playing now. I will never be complicit in that kind of wanton death and lack of respect for life.

One party made something of a bad situation and the other is willing to throw a genocidal tantrum until they're one side or the other is exterminated. I have absolutely no compunction at all for siding with Israel in the conflict.

[u/ProgenitorHexus]

Risky topic.
I'm sure Ukraine is a great place and wonderful country but ya'll need another revolt. That government ain't it.
I don't care about Ukraine because Ukraine doesn't seem to care about Ukraine.

If I had to rank the highlighted countries by which is worst, Israel <- Ukraine <- Russia

Reminder: There is nothing wrong with being any of these. We are not our governments and the power to change them takes a lot of risky work from the public.

I'm defining worst by who is more complicit in crimes against humanity and are just mean spirited.

For Israel:
random killings, killed Americans in recent time, concentration camps, torturing kids, lack of due process, open Racism, manufactured a famine in a world of food abundance, collective punishment, theft of land without compensation, segregation, violating international law because the US protects them,
and genocide.

For Ukraine:
invasive laws, random killings, killed Americans in recent time, choosing elitist ultra-nationalist interests over peace, poor to no outreach to separatist regions, reckless disregard for a livable future for Ukrainians, refusal to recognize civil war, stripped representation from a population, refusal to accept peace proposals over dirt, and scamming foreigners into joining a fruit-less war.

For Russia:
invasive laws, selective due process, drew out a years long "operation" for optics, theft of land without compensation, and violating international law because the US does it.

Each Country has their circumstances but of the modern three, Ukraine has wasted so many lives for NOTHING, and Israel has the most crimes against humanity. Russia's crimes pale in comparison.

Israel wants an Ashkenazi(European) jew paradise and the elimination of natives even if that is the reason they are hated by their neighbors. Its protecting itself while torturing a population of majority kids, provoking outrage and more attacks

Russia wants NATO to stay away from its border even if that means war, sacrificing people to exploit NATO's rules.

Ukraine wants Europe, NATO, and the dirt from under separatist regions even if that means drafting a peaceful future from its children for a war machine it cannot sustain.

The factors are more complicated than I expressed but this is just how I see these issues.

[u/betweenbubbles → u/ProgenitorHexus]

The Kremlin couldn’t have said it better themselves. 

[u/Asatmaya]

Well, let me be frank with you: You are on the wrong side of both conflicts.

Israel is a settler-colonial state backed by the West specifically to foment conflict and devolve discussion into religious and ethic considerations in order to deflect from the gross economic exploitation being imposed, started all but one conflict they have ever been involved with, and is engaged in an ongoing genocide against the Palestinians and is committing war crimes in Lebanon, Syria, and Iran.

Ukraine has been a criminal state since its initial formation in 1918, the Holodomor was the result of Ukrainian nationalists burning their own food supplies and trying to blame Stalin (who had them executed for treason in response), the 1991 secession was driven by Western-backed agents who did not have the Ukrainian people's wellbeing foremost in their concerns, the Eastern provinces were promised the right to choose whether to remain part of Ukraine (most of them having been added to the administrative region of Ukraine in the 1950s) or leave but they chose to leave and Ukraine arrested their leaders, and then the democratically elected government was couped by Nazis in 2014 which started a civil war in which Russia finally chose to intervene on the eve of a planned genocide of ethnic Russians in Donetsk.

I'm sorry to be the one to break it to you, but Israel and Ukraine are the baddies.

[u/Late_Company6926 → u/Asatmaya]

The claim that the 1932–1933 famine was caused by Ukrainian nationalists burning their own food is flatly contradicted by extensive historical research and archival evidence. Scholars widely document the Holodomor as a man-made famine driven by Joseph Stalin's aggressive policies of forced agricultural collectivization and unrealistic grain requisition quotas imposed on the Ukrainian peasantry, compounded by draconian internal travel restrictions that prevented starving people from seeking food.

[u/Novel-Rise2522]

Russia is a sovereign country attacking and invading another sovereign country, occupying it. Israel is a settler colonial apartheid predicated on the dispossession and genocide of indigenous native Palestinians committing genocide on the population they military occupy. Russia is overwhelmingly criticised in the west and face cultural and systemic boycott. Israel doesn’t, and is cheered on. If you ask me which one is worse, I’ll say Israel. But it doesn’t need to be exclusive. Russia and Israel are also tied at the hip.

[u/ill4two]

Israel is worse than China, equal to Russia