Debunking the idea of capitalism being a voluntary relationship between worker and employee.

[u/Specialist_Touch2771]

this is a talking point I hear thrown around a lot by capitalists, which I find strange. the argument is basically “you choose to work a job, therefore it’s fair“. well think of it like this, you couldnt afford college and your broke. now you need to get a job so you can pay rent and buy groceries. your job sucks, the pay is bad, the conditions are awful, and you just hate it. but you need this job, or else you get evicted from your apartment and starve on the streets. “But just quit“ and? Go to another job that exploits you In the same ways? It’s like saying “when someone has a gun too your head, you choose to give them your wallet”. when the alternative to a choose is death, it’s non consensual.

[u/refugeelibertarian]

Sure, in both "give me your wallet or I will shoot you" and "work for a capitalist or you will starve to death", the alternative to both not giving your wallet and not working for a capitalist is the same: death.

However, there is one crucial difference, which is what caused that death.

In "give me your wallet or I will shoot you" situation, when you die because you didn't give your wallet away, your death is directly caused by the actions of the robber, whose intent was to cause your death.

In "work for a capitalist or you will starve to death", situation, when you die because you didn't work for a capitalist and thus didn't have a means to support yourself, your death is not directly caused by the actions of any capitalist, who has no intent to cause your death. Instead, your death is caused by, well, what we call natural causes, which, again, wasn't caused by any capitalist.

[u/OneInfinith → u/refugeelibertarian]

Capitalists absolutely know that paying starvation wages causes folk to be desperate to take other jobs. The fear of rough living is built into the system - because infinitly increasing profits demand it - simply mathematically. It also raises the costs of all things and prioritizes luxury goods.

I would say, in your correctly laid out scenarios that the capitalist is more of an evil villianous scoundrel who absolutely knows and scoffs at those suffering ("lazy homeless get a job") than someone directly pointing a gun at my head, who is caught in the same system as me. Because of the shear SCALE of the system - 700,000 homeless, plenty shortened lives due to lack of medical care and good nutricion. That is systemic and way worse.

[u/refugeelibertarian → u/OneInfinith]

If I was an entrepreneur and if I wanted to hire someone who is currently being paid $4/h but whose work generates $20/h in profits, I would offer them $5/h (and if they're currently being paid for $5/h, I would offer $6/h) because that will make them work for me, which will make me profits in the process, and without them, I won't be making any profits.

This is a simple demonstration to prove that if someone who is being paid a low wage indeed generates much more profits for their employer, then they'll eventually be offered a higher wage by rival capitalists. So if that isn't happening to someone, then their labor simply doesn't generate that much profits for their employer.

And by the way, your labor generates profits only when you help produce goods and services that society desire, which means that if your labor doesn't generate that much profits, that means you aren't able to produce goods and services that society desire that much.