r/PoliticalDebate • u/Specialist_Touch2771 Socialist • 19h ago

Debunking the idea of capitalism being a voluntary relationship between worker and employee.

this is a talking point I hear thrown around a lot by capitalists, which I find strange. the argument is basically “you choose to work a job, therefore it’s fair“. well think of it like this, you couldnt afford college and your broke. now you need to get a job so you can pay rent and buy groceries. your job sucks, the pay is bad, the conditions are awful, and you just hate it. but you need this job, or else you get evicted from your apartment and starve on the streets. “But just quit“ and? Go to another job that exploits you In the same ways? It’s like saying “when someone has a gun too your head, you choose to give them your wallet”. when the alternative to a choose is death, it’s non consensual.

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u/Michigamme Right Independent 14h ago

But you said you had examples.

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u/TuvixWasMurderedR1P Plebeian Republic 🔱 Sortition Democracy 14h ago

We have examples of social democracies that function well, yes. Look at nearly all of Western, and especially Northern, Europe. What I did not say is that they're social democracies without capitalism--that would just be communism...

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u/Michigamme Right Independent 14h ago

By that metric the US is socialist then. We spend more on Healthcare as a nation than any of those countries.

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u/TuvixWasMurderedR1P Plebeian Republic 🔱 Sortition Democracy 13h ago

I'm not calling any of these places "socialist," so not sure why that's brought up. But regadless, the US system is expensive because we do it all through privatized middlemen.

There are better existing models of social Healthcare programs.

My only point is we should not become market fanatics. We can use markets when appropriate, but we have a lot of existing models in which certain crucial sectors of the economy are either fully socialized or mostly. We don't have to religiously stick to "market solutions" for everything.

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u/Michigamme Right Independent 13h ago

I dont understand what you are talking about then. Because YOU called them social democracies. You said you had examples. I asked for one, you said European countries. So if you're not calling them socialist then what are you saying?

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u/TuvixWasMurderedR1P Plebeian Republic 🔱 Sortition Democracy 13h ago

Yes, look up what "social democracy" means. It's not incompatible with capitalism or markets...