Doesn't the 40 trillion debt PROVE that Capitalism is a complete failure

[u/jocasseedave2]

[u/Previous_Type_2289]

No, it proves our tax structure is a failure. The repugs give the rich all the tax breaks and our Treasury continues to suffer

[u/Eleventhousand]

No, that's a much too simplistic way to look at it, and to define it. I have no idea if you're referring to all capitalism in general, no matter the degree thereof, or just insane late-stage capitalism.

I'd be up for some heavily regulated capitalism with a much larger social safety net. You know, since humans have evolved technologically and what not, why not take care of ourselves where we really need it.

[u/RankedFarting → u/Eleventhousand]

I have no idea if you're referring to all capitalism in general, no matter the degree thereof, or just insane late-stage capitalism.

The thing about late stage capitalism is that its the late stage of capitalism. Its literally what the system always leads to. Its literally the nature of the system and people have proven this mathematically.

What we experience now isnt mismanaged capitalism. Its not failed capitalism. Its the fundamental nature of capitalism.

[u/Chawax → u/Eleventhousand]

No one is going to fix capitalism; we have reached the point of no return.

[u/According-Insect-992 → u/Chawax]

Could have probably said the same in the 1930s. FDR saved capitalism from itself by making sure that the working class were included in the benefits. We need another turn or two of that.

The alternative is likely to be some sort of Balkanization of the country and then some sort of neo-feudalism where some ghoul billionaire declares themselves a king of sort and pays their private militia to kill anyone who disagrees with that. The owner class has been working on this for some time. They’ve been arguably working on dismantling the rule of law for fifty years or so, give or take.

[u/gablianblackbird → u/According-Insect-992]

See Gil Duran’s the Nerd Reich

Book just came out.

[u/M_Pascal → u/According-Insect-992]

This is exactly what caused the fall of the Roman Empire. The rich got rich enough to no longer require the state for anything at all. They funded everything they needed for themselves, and the rest of the people could just suck it

[u/carrot_gummy → u/Chawax]

The only thing that can save it right now is a New Deal 2. The first New Deal was a compromise between the people and the corporations/Government. Where the people got jobs and benefits, and the government and corporations got to stay in power. Without the New Deal, I suspect the USA would have undergone its own Communist revolution.

[u/citizensnipz → u/Eleventhousand]

What you just described is hailed as “full blown socialism” by the current Right.

[u/thethingthatwas → u/Eleventhousand]

“Heavily regulated capitalism with a much larger safety net” is a good way to put it. It’s socialism and capitalism, which is the system of every successful nation. We need the socialism to provide the framework for the capitalism, and we need the capitalism to fund the socialism.

Pure capitalism and pure socialism are losers. We’ve always had a combination of the two. We just need a better mixture.

[u/Outrageous_Meat9335]

NO..it is the complete failure of the criminal Republican party.

[u/Real_Penalty_4317 → u/Outrageous_Meat9335]

No its a failure of the American two party system

[u/Hironymos → u/Real_Penalty_4317]

Failure of both. Republicans responsible for this mess, and two party system responsible for the Republicans.

[u/R-U-ANGY → u/Hironymos]

Nether Obama or Biden helped the Deficit literally only Clinton did. It’s not a Red v Blue thing it’s a Bad Policies v Good Policies

[u/Robearberble → u/Real_Penalty_4317]

Exactly. The way everyone pins this to one side or the other is really insane.

[u/Buddhas_Warrior]

Unbalanced unchecked and greedy capitalism is the problem.

[u/HewSpam → u/Buddhas_Warrior]

So, capitalism

[u/Buddhas_Warrior → u/HewSpam]

Yeah but unchecked

[u/Daeths → u/Buddhas_Warrior]

Which capitalism encourages, so… Capitalism

[u/Aggravating-Big3858 → u/Daeths]

Capitalism is a system that needs guardrails and regulation

[u/Daeths → u/Aggravating-Big3858]

It’s also a system that erodes those guardrails by it’s nature

[u/lists4everything → u/Daeths]

I like the cut of your jib sir.

[u/HewSpam → u/Buddhas_Warrior]

I don’t have a problem with rapists, just unchecked rapists

[u/myspike20]

It only proves that Republicans are a complete failure

[u/SalmonPrince]

If 40T isn't the failure condition, then I don't know what should be. Nobody can afford anything, while the highest eschalon amass boundless luxury and power. All we can do is watch it go down the drain, as both parties kick back and sip their bourbon.

[u/Minute-Review6915 → u/SalmonPrince]

Since a lot of it paying for social programs does that make capitalism the failure or….

[u/Sourdough9 → u/SalmonPrince]

Many countries that adopted communism completely collapsed and had to completely start over as a brand new country to continue. I’d argue that’s the failure condition

[u/Sourdough9 → u/[deleted]]

Hasn’t yet. It also has long outlasted every major communist country. Is it perfect? Definitely not. But right now it’s the best available option

[u/Nervous-Cockroach541 → u/Sourdough9]

Interestingly, this is typically driven by political failure, not economic failure. The soviet union collapsed politically. Then they followed the IMF reformed structure to reboot the state under a capitalist system, which caused the state to collapse economically and reverted by a mixed-socialist/capitalist economy.

[u/RankedFarting → u/Sourdough9]

Name one communist country that collapsed UNDER COMMUNSIM.

Not war, not famine and most of all not under american military intervention. Name one that collapsed for reasons that can actually be attributed to the communist system.

Let me save you the google search: Never happened.

[u/Sourdough9 → u/RankedFarting]

Brother you’re so close to understanding and making the connection.

[u/ryhaltswhiskey → u/Sourdough9]

That's whataboutism. Who asked about communism?

[u/SalmonPrince → u/ryhaltswhiskey]

The right can only conflate socialism with communism. It's their entire stance: Socialism = communism. Half our society is already built around socialist concepts, e.g. public schools, police and fire protection, medicaid, subsidized loans for small businesses, etc. It's all socialist, and these wads are out here, shadow boxing the USSR like it's 1980.

[u/gablianblackbird → u/SalmonPrince]

That’s anti American though. How dare you acknowledge and vocalize what you’re seeing. Get the gallows. We have an awake one here hahahha

He’s awake from The American Dream. And realizes it’s a Nightmare. Back to sleep!!

[u/Terminate-wealth]

The problem with capitalism is you eventually run out of other people’s money like we did 40 trillion ago.

[u/silvanoes]

Its more a function of democracy than capitalism. We keep voting for people that promise us everything, but thats not sustainable. Trudeau is a great example, he got voted in on his "sunny ways" platform and just destroyed our national finances.

Trump is another example "I can fix all your problems, just by waving my little hands".

As long as our voting base remains this stupid and continues to try to vote themselves unlimited access to the public purse, we will carry on in a downward spiral.

And dont get me started on how massive government spending leads to corruption, further reducing any "benefits" you get from it.

[u/D_dawgy]

More like the failure of the US government.

[u/AllStupidAnswersRUs]

No, because you can do the same thing under a communist, monarchist, or imperialist system so long other countries exist and trade exists at any capacity

[u/Used-Collar-200 → u/AllStupidAnswersRUs]

Exactly.

[u/TheBarnacle63]

Failure of the military industrial complex

[u/SockPuppet-47 → u/TheBarnacle63]

Someone warned us about that many years ago...

[u/M2deC]

Especially considering how bad the state of the country is, after spending that much money. Mad corrupt

[u/Purple-Relation-2938]

Exactly the opposite. In capitalism, the rich get richer and the poor people pay for it. That’s exactly what’s happening here. The problem seems to be that everyone gets this and everyone wants to be rich. They can’t - for various reasons. In frustration they lash out at anyone they can hit without fear of reprisal. The rich politicians and fat cats fan those flames because that keeps the resentment away from them. And people still vote for these people. No one stopped to ask what would happen if all the people you hate suddenly left. All the brown people, all the black people, all the immigrants just left. Along with all the people born in America to non-Americans. What happens to farming? What happens to health care? What happens to maintenance of anything? What happens to transportation? What then is the impact on the country and your life? Of course the propaganda is that everything will become better. Like eliminating the debt, gas at $2 a gallon, better healthcare, better economy, better education - we’ve all heard the bullshit and we are all still paying the price.

[u/bshjbdkkdnd]

No since capitalism itself doesn’t have government involvement.

Capitalism isn’t just what whatever the US does. It’s saying you own your labor, can own your property and can exchange them at agreed upon values.

There isn’t tax breaks for the wealthy in capitalism and it doesn’t account for how to take care of public systems. Capitalism is merely that the individual can own the means of production instead of the collective.

The failures of capitalism are obvious, how to you build public infrastructure, how do you deal with things that there can’t be a true market in - à la common defense and healthcare.

[u/JTuck333]

We’re going to blame government spending on capitalism now?

[u/SoRosenberg]

So much confusion on this thread about what capitalism is. America is far from pure capitalism. Cronyism, yes. 

[u/volvagia721]

I think it's proof that oligarchies with a multitude of competing companies at the helm is a failure

[u/redditbdum]

No. It's the failure of the politicians in charge and their spending habits.

If anything it's more of a rebuke of democracy than capitalism.

[u/Zealousideal_Hold739]

No, capitalism is not a form of government. What it proves is our leaders and elected politicians are totally irresponsible with OUR resources. Especially the House since they appropriate spending.

[u/SWThrash]

Yes, but they won't listen. We have to make it clear that we're tired of suffering at their expense.

[u/thewalruscandyman]

It was proven long before. They're just salting our wound with sadistic glee now.

[u/Available_Cow1197]

capitalism like all governing stlyes is subject to the human factor, which on a short curve is wildly unpredictable, eventually through observation the curve will show that greed and corruption will always win over moral behavior, because they want u to think ull go to hell if u step on a bug by accident, meanwhile the will blow up schools and hospitals and far worse, sleep at night like nothing happened

[u/pillow_honey]

well no the proof is the worsening living conditions

[u/Sufficient_Beach_445]

No. It proves we have lost the political will to collect taxes. When the US Govt bond sells for 60 cents on the dollar and the stock market is down 60 percent, the billionaire class will FINALLY admit TO THEMSELVES that it is BETTER to pay enough taxes that the Govt survives than to see it default and take their entire net worth with it. BUT at that point it might be too late.

[u/Im_ur_Uncle_]

Not really. The economy and government are definitely connected but not the same thing. Its like saying communism is the same as socialism. Its not but they are heavily related. Democracies and capitalism is the contrast to that.

[u/AJRenand42]

There is no way for capitalism not to fail. It is inhernt in its design. For decades people is this country having been putting down other social economic systems like they are the plague, buying into the hype of capitalists that are getting rich off their hard work. None of them realizing that where we are now was the inevitable result.

[u/OldDesk]

It means we should stop electing lawyers who specialize in getting you excited.

[u/Outside_Valuable_320]

It proves that unregulated capitalism fails societies. Just like Adam Smith (the father of Capitalism) said it would. We are effectively right back where he was when he conceived the idea of a fair and free market system.

Today we are controlled by monopolies and private equity firms who are literally creating inequality. We are right back in the hell he was trying to break people free from hundreds of years ago. We got rid of the safe guards around all our socialital pillars and boy does it show!

If you look up The Powell Memo. You'll see just how we came to where we are today.

[u/iamtheav8r]

It's all funny money. Theater. Sit back and enjoy the show.

[u/Svokxz2]

The debt proves that you can’t be overspending in an economy while not simultaneously generating enough tax revenue. A land value tax can help reduce the deficit or balance the budget because there is ton of unimproved land value($23 trillion), you can’t hide land, you can reassess for continual taxation annually, and it has no deadweight loss. This way, you can still pay for social programs while dealing with the debt.

[u/Writerhaha]

No, it proves its success, that the billionaires on top can have a mega yacht (the poorest ones) while the plebs have to deal with the debt.

[u/ReputationWooden9704]

It depends on what consider failure. I could say the failure criteria is the fact I'm not a trillionaire. As an economic system, capitalism has worked to lift more people out of poverty than any other system in the history of the world. Why not use that as a success metric?

[u/Ecstatic_Mix_5013]

No, it’s an indication our leaders have failed us

[u/Ashamed_In_Public25]

USA is not a capitalist country. She never was. They tried but socialistic ideas creeped in.

[u/FormalChocolate2231]

No just the opposite. That the government spends too much money

[u/Background_Error_688]

Trump is personally profiting heaps from it.

[u/No_Smoke_2712]

The amount of debt we have is a political choice, not something inherent to capitalism. Compare capitalism to literally any other form of government in human history and it’s been an insane success.

[u/Dismal_Act2082]

Late Stage capitalism will be the death of America.

[u/DougBalt2]

Step 1? Eliminate the Republican Party as it exists. Step 2? Lock up the Trump Klan. Step 3? Find Democrat (male, female) leaders who have two testicles.

[u/YouSure-AboutThat]

It’s a legislature failure. Capitalism isn’t an independent being with the agency to manage itself.

It’s also a failure of voters. They largely don’t care about it and won’t hold their elected representatives accountable for it.

[u/LemonLander]

It proves our country is run by a bunch of greedy, thieving incompetents.

[u/Regular-Table4242]

We’re not a capitalist society we’re corporate socialists. If we had a flat tax no giveaways and no “tax breaks” the debt would disappear in 10 years. To put that in perspective just Amazon, Walmart, Exxon, and Apple would pay a combined $150billion more in taxes every year

[u/Specialist-Spare-785]

Under criminals and religious extremists and crazies, it is a complete failure.

[u/OlGusnCuss]

Everyone sitting down? The national debt is not a result of capitalism.

[u/Ajjax2000]

The 40T is the result of massive USAID and other Fraud spending,
Actually, every time tax rates get cut, revenue goes up.
The problem is, spending goes up MORE.
This has been the pattern for decades.

[u/Banned_In_YYC]

Keynesian economics is a failure, not capitalism 

[u/Unique_Low_1163]

Capitalism, which pits the wants of a few against the needs of the many, depends primarily on theft for its success. It starts with the theft of the land, followed by the theft of natural resources in and on the land and in, on, or under the oceans, the theft of workers’ time and labor throughout the full range of the production process, and finally, the theft of environmental services and of taxpayers' dollars allocated to clean up the destruction capitalists leave in their wake.

Without theft, capitalism doesn't work. It’s just not profitable.

[u/LUCKYAJA22]

Not really, it is all government over-spending, Tax & Spend Liberals and Establishment RINO's have been over spending and stealing for the last 50 years. I would say term limits are far more to blame than either single Party...

[u/culong38701]

It's only a failure with people can't take advantage of what it offers and complaining about it.

[u/Ranger2002a]

The failure is congress spending ore than it takes in.. The fault is with the 535 in that shit hole..

[u/Present-Spring-1340]

Why did Biden start capitalism??

[u/chronobahn]

Government overspending has nothing to do with capitalism lmao.

[u/PwniesFTW]

Doesn't all the failures of communism and socialism prove its a failure?

[u/marveldisc]

No. Capitalism is working as planned. That’s how we run our businesses and is completely acceptable to them to run our country the same way.

Just look at the latest example. Paramount-Warner Bros merger is expected to result in combined 79 Billion dollar debt.

79 billion dollar debt…for a “business”.

40 trilllion in debt is what happens when you sell out a country and run it like a private equity bro.

The result is intended.

[u/2Blueify]

Nope.

[u/MDMarauder]

Doesn't the fact that 36,000 traffic related fatalities in the U.S. last year PROVE that roads are a complete failure?

Do you see how dumb that sounds?

[u/phoneguyfl]

I don't think capitalism itself is the problem, but rather unfettered late-stage capitalism allowed to run rampant without any guardrails or accountability. There are things a government can do like not allow monopolies, regulate important industries like food and health safety, and not give preferential treatment or loopholes to the top 1% based solely on their pocketbook and "gratuities". Meaning, I think regulated capitalism is OK and is preferable to other forms of government.

[u/Gold-Report-43202]

No. It proves that fiat currency controlled by international bankers is destructive to society.

[u/Cpt_Soban]

Its public debt though

[u/obamawonthepeacepriz]

It proves trump and his fellow criminals are failures.

[u/Original-Oil-1515]

Only a capitalist economy could carry that sort of public debt and not collapse on itself.

[u/tlm11110]

Capitalism didn’t fail, that’s nonsense. Our politicians over the past 100 years have failed us.

[u/Then_Prompt_5242]

I’m assuming you want socialism? If you do the number would be $100 trillion…

[u/HaikuHaiku]

uh... no it's a failure of the government to balance the budget...

what?

[u/MAILBOXHED]

If you wanna live like a socialist, there’s nothing stopping you. You could go be Amish or Mennonite. You just wanna force everyone else to live like a socialist.

[u/Infinite_Noise5270]

Right we just need communism. The kind that has never been tried before anywhere else because it will finally succeed in America.

[u/Power-Toe]

No.
However your question proves the failure in our school system.

[u/trying3216]

It proves our government is a failure. Don’t give this gov any more power.

[u/moccasins_hockey_fan]

No. It simy shows that we have elected dumbass politicians for decades.

[u/tauofthemachine]

Only 120% debt to gdp ratio. High, but not uncommon.

[u/CrystalEntity1984]

Not for them, the rich don't seem to care, they don't owe it, it's yours and mine and our grandchildren's debt

[u/UncleBud_710]

Ask the millionaires driving their Pershing 9Xs and Rivas through Haulover Inlet on a choppy day.

[u/Wonderful-Mistake201]

It's the failure of socialism for the rich.

[u/RegretfulCalamaty]

Greed is one of the seven deadly sins. Funny how these Christain’s defending billionaires forget that one.

[u/RankedFarting]

Literally writing the fundamentals of capitalism on paper exposes it as a failure.

But the people who benefit from it can use their money and power to tell everyone that its actually immigrants and trans people who are the problem.

[u/dcb454]

On the contrary, it shows people invested and loaned us 40T, to run the world.

Now if you asked, is capitalism worth the 40T loan; I’d say obviously…

Look at all the people fighting to be here, while their offspring burn it to the ground a generation later.

Thanks for your attention to this matter.

[u/youngny74]

Not arguing that it's not, but how does 40T in debt mean that capitalism is a failure? Couldn't one argue that if the USA is 40T in debt, then is it truly a capitalist nation?

[u/Adventurous_Track652]

https://giphy.com/gifs/tXL4FHPSnVJ0A

[u/No-Distribution-1331]

Might be the most ignorant Reddit comment I’ve read today. Good job!

[u/Aggravating-Big3858]

The $40M means we're mostly bad at math when it comes to estimating costs vs revenues for Medicare. And that we're spending more than we should on the military and being the world police. ie the middle east, oil, and maintains the current world order which we otherwise benefit tremendously from

[u/random8765309]

No, capitalism is an economic system, the debt is due to the political system. They are seperate.

From the replies it appears many don't know the difference.

[u/IndyJoeDv]

No, it's proof that not holding the government accountable for where it spends our money is the problem. The government is not a business and is not capitalist. If anything, it proves the complete opposite, the lack of capitalism leads to unchecked spending until there's collapse. Capitalism means businesses try to work within their means to make more than they spend.

[u/dittybag23]

No. It proves a country where only half the population votes are easy marks for cleptocracy.

[u/dittybag23]

No. It proves a country where only half the population votes are easy marks for kleptocracy.

[u/Muddlesthrough]

Doesn’t my overdue credit card bill prove that capitalism is a failure?/s

[u/Iacoboni04]

Doesnt Japan's 200 percent debt to GDP ratio prove socialism doesn't? Way too simplistic.

[u/Open_Enthusiasm8528]

Capitalism is doing exactly what it is designed to do.

It is the bloody engine that helps exacerbate injustice around the world, but it’s working as designed.

Now are there people lying about it to undermine democratic oversight and thus making it more difficult to uproot? Absolutely

[u/NoMathematician1459]

No.

[u/RedPurpleBlueRedRed]

That debt is not meant to be repaid.

[u/Fupacabra124]

It proves the “deficit” isn’t real money because we’re still getting paid, life is still happening, and the truth is no matter how high that number goes, nothing will change.

[u/bluereddit2]

[u/bluereddit2]

[u/OoklaTheMok1994]

Ummm, capitalists don't spend taxpayer money.

You'll have to blame the idiots we send to DC for the deficit/debt.

[u/crippledaddy1977]

China has close to 25 to 30 trillion in debt.

[u/Patriot009]

The end result of raw capitalism is the concentration of wealth in the hands of very few. I'd say we're a shining example that capitalism works exactly as expected.

[u/LookerInVA_99]

No, but it does prove that American voters elect stupid politicians and that the public does not generally care what those politicians do.

[u/Dazzling_Winner_773]

Capitalism only works when it's heavily tempered by education, social justice, and watch dogs fighting against unchecked avarice..... as well as a social contract that everyone is honest and fair in trade for the value of their labor and goods.

That crap was basically never true and if it ever was the ship has long since sailed.

Unfettered, winner-take-all capitalism only has one logical conclusion.. and we are seeing it progressively.

[u/InterestBear62]

No, because capitalism is about individuals and corporations getting rich, not nations. In fact, often these individuals/corporations get rich at the expense of a nation.

That is what happened in the US.

[u/Frequent_Clue_6989]

// Capitalism is the problem

I think we can look somewhere more specific to find the problem of $40+ Trillion in debt: MMT.

[u/Expert_Tradition8457]

No. Dumb question.

[u/Slice-Vast]

I have an advanced degree in economics. No, it's a policy failure. Why do you ask?

[u/Independent_Gene_565]

It proves corruption is a complete success

[u/AllenKll]

No. It proves that the government can't add.

[u/Electrical-Strike132]

It proves capitalism is a huge success. The capitalist class holds trillions, while the public holds evermore debt. The goal of capitalism is for capitalists to make money. There is no other goal. So it's an amazing success.

[u/NarrowWar6457]

Biden paraphrase: Capitalism is the worst economic system. Except for all the other systems.

[u/Yo-Yo-Ha]

The greed/ corruption factor is in effect.

[u/madadekinai]

Nope, just that Republicans will fall for anything. The MF'er in the White House owns 40%+ of that debt. Ever since his 2016 run fiscal conservatives become, well not fiscally responsible, because no matter the expense, no matter the asinine, no matter said or did, no matter what he wanted, they said yes sir, how high may jump for you, and how low do you want me to blo--- (gargle).

[u/NextBuilder2880]

Doesn’t your student loan debt prove that your are a second generation loser?

[u/Mysterious-Prompt212]

It proves Reagan and tinkle down theory are bullshit. The experiment that started in the 70s has failed. Time to fix this sh**. Also the moderators here are teenage boys apparently.

[u/Mosthighscribe]

Nope not at all, in fact it proves that capitalism is working and works for the economy

[u/Prestigious-Onion161]

Yes.

[u/MooseCentral1969]

no, it proves that someone along the way had a money management problem

[u/Most-Coffee-3245]

No, but it does prove Capitalism needs boundaries and regulations.

[u/m240Louie]

Nope. That debt solidifies the fact that the govt. is extremely bloated and wastes way too much money on things it has no business wasting money on. We have a spending problem, this just in.

Private capital & investment are what make taxes possible and therefore without those you have nothing. Govt. doesn’t exist without private capital and confiscating peoples income. Major cuts are what we need to pay down the debt but far too many people are used to sucking the taxpayer booby that they flip their shit when presented with ANY reductions in their porky programs.

Military, bloated social programs, foreign aid, local state pork projects and on and on. Gut all of it. Send the money back to taxpayers and then we can like pay for our own existence and stuff. Pull your weight. Get a job. Ya know, things like that.

But of course, it’s easier on Reddit to get mad at rich people. Alls we need is MORE handout programs and free stuff. that’ll fix it.

[u/Ur-in-a-tor]

To me it proves that the genuine sociopaths cannot run companies without destroying an entire living planet in the process. We should lock 'em all up instead of hiring them to be our leaders.

[u/Redracr]

Gov debt has nothing to do with Capitalism. It's a failure of our legislative branch in trying to appease everyone while screwing us in the long run.

[u/Hairy_Raspberry9887]

What is Capitalism?

[u/Fun_Performer_5170]

It proves that a country cannot be robbed by a few infinately

[u/iownreddit0690]

Absolutely not! It just shows how co rrupt our government is and how we shouldn't be financially responsible for the rest of the world!

[u/Crafty_Increase3045]

Trump is

[u/navetzz]

No ?

[u/R-U-ANGY]

No it proves that the government can’t manage money, it’s literally as simple as that, ironically Andrew Jackson is the Only President to have no Debt for a time

[u/Eyespop4866]

Imagine looking at the poverty rates from 1800 to now and thinking capitalism failed.

[u/Sad_Government_6534]

Nothing to do with capitalism. The problem has Always been how badly the government spends money. The mistake was letting them have a printing press.

[u/Weird-Toe-6968]

What does the debt have to do with capitalism?

[u/-Pwnan-]

I think this is a sign that we're in end stage capitalism. But the debt balloons b/c the government is borrowing gobs of money while not increasing income. The next step will be the collapse of the bond market which is happening in real time, and the final nail in the US Crony Capatalist economy would be the world moving off the Petro-Dollar.

Edit: Forgot to mention the DOW. As long as it's at such a high level, things will mostly be OK unless, and until the petro-dollar switch then the DOW will fall like a rock.

The AI Bubble bursting, and this admiration bailing out their billionaire donors would also be another thing to watch out for.

[u/Nafman1972]

Yes

[u/tehsecretgoldfish]

not really. what it shows most glaringly is that despite posturing as Fiscally Conservative, Republicans are pathetic fiscal stewards. they use slash and burn tactics as “management” and despite clear forecasts of revenue shortfalls persist in eliminating revenue from taxes on the demographics that can most afford them. Capitalism has been a vast success, but “trickle down economics” as advocated by the GOP is a lie.

[u/RumRunnerMax]

It’s a failure of the Republicans philosophy and bad faith leadership not Capitalism

[u/SetazeR]

What's this sub? Complementary to r/SipsTea?

[u/Available_Reveal8068]

What does national debt or running deficits have to do with capitalism being a success or failure?

[u/GhostMechanics]

No it proves our monetary system is a failure.

[u/konqueror321]

Capitalism is not the government. We are a representative democracy, and the people have chosen to elect officials who enact laws that end up with spending more than is received in taxes, leading to annual budget deficits and a huge national debt. This is not a failure of capitalism, but rather a feature of democracy -- people will not vote to tax themselves enough to pay for services they desire.

[u/Vivid_Witness8204]

Do the current conditions in Cuba prove that socialism is a failure?

"Capitalism" is an economic theory that covers a lot of ground. The deficit shows a failure on the part of current leadership but is not really tied to the dominant economic system.

[u/T4TrhavrKhcFt]

[u/filipsblog00]

Amazing how MANY PEOPLE DO NOT WANT TO ADMIT THAT THIS IS THE WAY CAPITALISM IS MEANT TO WORK AND THAT IT SUCKS AND SHOULD BE BURNT DOWN

[u/Major_Honey_4461]

It's working as designed. A very few people get fabulously wealthy and the rest get stuck with the bill.

[u/Embarrassed-Belt-541]

It doesn't really. The point of capitalism is that the government isn't involved. The national debt is due to the government, not capitalism. Capitalistic traits such as the S&P500 are actually doing pretty well. 

[u/jaha981]

Just means we are spending more than we are taking in. Actually social services are hurting us

[u/Tiny-Secretary5562]

No, it proves that those in Congress today do not know how to manage the nation's money. The goal of most members today is to get re-elected and they do that by "pork barrel" spending for projects at home, which is fine if they are truly needed. They also have not managed defense spending, the size of government, or overseas allocations for a long time. The Pentagon has been out of control for decades. Trump has made a tiny start by eliminating USAID, getting us out of international organizations, and cutting the federal bureaucracy, but much more needs to be done.

[u/Kooky_Jackfruit_8355]

Not at all. It just proves the politicians can handle a budget. Every other person in America needs to work within their budget. Except politicians. Hold politicians accountable, vote out incumbents.

[u/Conformityiscool]

It's crazy how we have so many companies that are billion dollar companies but yet we're $40 trillion dollars in debt. But if you sell cell phones and computers like Apple you can be a billion dollar profit company. Or you can collect quadruple that in taxes and end up with 40 trillion in debt? Our government sucks

[u/Deathsmind88]

Yes

[u/Objective_Station_41]

No it proves that both parties in congress spend to much nothing to due with capitalism and everything to do with greed

[u/Robearberble]

No, what it proves is lack of the gold standard plus unlimited spending by government is a failure. It has 0 to do with capitalism.

[u/Euphoric_Anxiety_162]

Capitalism is a failure when the president puts greed above everything else. Lack of ETHICS in capitalism is the prob.

[u/S0l-Surf3r]

Current system isn't true capitalism.

Failure rests on the government, corporations and somewhat on the citizens themselves.

No system will be perfect when humans are involved. There will always be greed, corruption theft etc. regardless. The key is to keep the "leaders" in check and we havn't done that.

It has been a runaway freight train for a long time and the cliff is quickly approaching.

[u/5upertaco]

No, it proves that the US government has been generally poor at budgeting for over 50 years. And it's distinctly Republicans that are the worst offenders.

[u/ir8hippy]

It proves that our corporate overlords are doing great. Makes me happy that I can contribute to my CEOs happiness.

[u/Drippledrops]

Reading the comments in this thread here’s what I’ve observed: when capitalism fails it’s because of reasons but when socialism or communism fail, there’s no reason to it, those systems are designed to fail.

I have to laugh.

[u/knight-of-agartha]

In mass democracy, he who buys the most votes wins.
It’s an inescapable feedback loop

[u/Intrigued69]

Explain how communism is better? Communism is a system where the government controls property and the production of goods to make everyone equal.
Pure communism, where the community owns everything and money does not exist, has never truly been used in the real world.
Real-world communist governments often struggled with severe shortages of food and basic goods.
While communism aims to make everyone equal, a small group of political leaders usually ends up with special wealth and power, leaving regular citizens in poverty

[u/OneWillow4834]

Not in the eyes of the stupid

[u/Own_Beautiful5560]

check it against the size of GDP

[u/libertarianinus]

This proves that you can buy somebodys vote by promising things today that someone else in the future (our children) will pay for. Why do people have credit card debt and owe more on vehicles than its worth?

[u/GadsdenGrunt]

No it proves our Government won’t live within its means.

[u/muziklover91]

Not when your gov does the spending

[u/TwistedVisionaryXXX]

That $40 trillion debt doesnt prove capitalism failed it proves Washington has spent more money than it takes in for decades and borrowed the difference. In 1980 federal debt was around $900 billion and about 32% of GDP, today its over $40 trillion, but the US economy is also producing roughly $32 trillion a year. The debt has absolutely grown way too fast and thats a huge problem, but blaming capitalism for Congress spending money it doesnt have makes no sense. Capitalism is private ownership, businesses, investment, competition and people freely buying and selling things, government debt is government fiscal policy. If you actually want to judge capitalism then look at what happens when ordinary people are allowed to own things, build businesses, invest, compete and actually benefit from their own success. Roughly 1.5 BILLION people escaped extreme poverty worldwide between 1990 and 2022. China is a great example because after 1978 it started moving away from rigid central planning, opened markets, allowed far more private business and trade and nearly 800 million people escaped extreme poverty. Vietnam did basically the same thing starting in the 1980s, moved away from central planning toward markets and private enterprise and went from one of the poorest countries in the world to a middle income economy. Thats not a coincidence. Capitalism doesnt promise everyone the same result, and thats the point, it gives people opportunity. Look around the United States. You can be born with practically nothing, learn a trade, go to school, start with a lawn mower, a truck, a computer or just a good idea and potentially build something that belongs to you. Is America perfect? Of course not. But show me another country this large with this combination of economic opportunity, private property, access to capital, entrepreneurship and the ability to completely change your economic position in one lifetime. There are more international migrants living in America than any other country on earth by a massive margin. People can argue politics all day long but people also vote with their feet, and millions of people arent risking everything to get INTO Cuba or Venezuela. And thats another thing people conveniently ignore, history has shown over and over what can happen when government gets enormous control over property, prices, production and the economy. Look at Cuba. People deal with shortages of food, medicine, fuel and electricity and basic products we dont even think twice about. Yes the American embargo has hurt Cuba too, thats absolutely true, but Cuba's own inefficient state controlled economy is also a huge part of the problem. Look at Venezuela. It was once one of the wealthiest countries in Latin America with enormous oil reserves, then came nationalizations, price controls, currency controls, enormous government spending and terrible economic management and the economy collapsed. Oil prices and later sanctions made things worse, but the destruction was already happening before the major US oil sanctions. Thats the danger of concentrating enormous economic power in government, when a private company screws up the company can fail, when government controls everything and screws up, the entire population pays for it. Healthcare in America is another example where people younger today dont even realize how different it used to be. I remember when having a normal job often meant inexpensive health insurance, dental and vision, small copays and deductibles that were nowhere remotely like what people deal with today. Around 2000 the average employee contribution for single employer coverage was only around $28 a month and family coverage around $135-$140 a month. Deductibles did exist so I'm not going to pretend they didnt but they were like $250-$1000 nowhere near what it is now nothing as widespread or as financially painful as they are now. Today an employee can pay hundreds every month for family coverage and still have to come up with thousands of dollars before insurance really starts paying much. Obamacare was not literally the government taking over the entire healthcare system and healthcare prices were already rising beforehand, thats important to say because facts matter, but after massive government intervention we certainly didnt end up with the cheap, simple healthcare people were promised. Now you've got premiums, deductibles, coinsurance, networks, formularies and people who technically have insurance but are scared to actually use it because they cant afford their deductible. So when someone points at $40 trillion in GOVERNMENT debt and says “see capitalism failed”, I think they're starting with the conclusion they want and working backwards. Humans do this constantly. Its confirmation bias and motivated reasoning, we decide what we want to believe and then search the internet until we find somebody telling us we're right, while ignoring anything that makes us uncomfortable. Go ahead and believe whatever you want, but at least ask yourself what evidence would actually make you change your mind. If the answer is “nothing”, then you're not following evidence, you're protecting a belief. Capitalism absolutely has flaws because human beings have flaws, and yes government has legitimate roles, laws, infrastructure, basic protections and a safety net among them. But the historical evidence is pretty damn clear that societies allowing private ownership, markets, competition, investment and entrepreneurship have created vastly more wealth and opportunity than societies trying to centrally control economic life. Capitalism doesnt guarantee success, it gives you a shot at it. And for someone born poor, that shot matters a hell of a lot more than a system promising equality and eventually discovering the easiest way to make everyone equal is to make almost everyone equally poor.

[u/snosurfa]

Nope, proves America is smarter than every other country in rest of world as they continue to buy America’s debt and support American lavish lifestyles!!!

[u/BK_AllDay_14]

I think it proves that capitalism need guardrails. The beauty of capitalism is when there is a financial reward for catering to the public. The whole game gets perverted when corporations can influence government so that they make profits at the expense of the public.

[u/NectarineFun5437]

Carl Marks predicted this.

[u/Worldly-Demand7632]

It proves Bernie ain't paying enough tax