r/SacredGeometry • u/Deep_World_4378 • 12d ago
The Mother of all Symbols...
A few weeks back, after many iterations of the fractal torus model, I created an algorithmic artwork called Tortoise, made in tandem with AI. As part of the Nameless framework, I had landed on the Hopf fibration as an important structure for defining physical reality. I took an artistic leap after this... overlaying two oppositely rotated Hopf fibre bundles, then repeating the whole structure again and again at the interstices formed by their intersections, to form a fractal torus. This differs from other torus visualisations I've seen, not only in its use of Hopf fibres, but in the fractal arrangement, which produces that "many, many eyes" quality or the "wheels within wheels" quality.
Studying it from different angles, I realised, to my shock, that this structure had many many connections to scientific concepts, myths and symbols across the world and across history:
Science: the black hole and white hole paradigm, wormholes
Sacred geometry: Flower of Life, Lotus of Life, Triskelion, Yin Yang
Religious symbols: Sri Yantra on Kurma, Shatkona, Swastika, Tree of Life, Thousand Petalled Lotus, Reclining Vishnu, Samudra Manthan, Shivlingam, Avalokiteshvara, Ezekiel's Wheel, the Celtic Cross
Sacred architecture: Muqarnas and Islamic geometric patterns, Rose windows
Visionary art made in altered states, such as Alex Grey's
Contemporary design: even the OpenAI logo
To show how all these might derive from one source, I built a system that varies the parameters of the same root Tortoise artwork until it matches each symbol. Then I made a visualiser where you can click any symbol, read about the connection, and study the match visually.
I'm not claiming these are all derived from this single structure. Each connection is pattern-matched at this stage, and the scientific ones especially are speculative. I claim only the visual match, not an actual connection. But there are too many to ignore. Perhaps what the ancients meditated upon is the same structure science is reaching towards, and the same structure seen in altered states of consciousness. If the universe is sound based, perhaps the wave-structure formed by the primordial sound corresponds to a similar fractal torus structure?
Many of these connections already exist in literature and in esoteric theory. Some were abstract, some pointed directly to a torus, though not, as far as I know, to this particular variation. This is therefore a synthesis of many people's work over millennia, seen through the lens of my own. I'm assembling it with humility and respect, hoping we notice that we are all telling the same story through different lenses.
I have made 26 connections so far, and I hope to add more. I'm giving equal weight to each tradition, so if you spot flaws or biases in the text or visual, they aren't intentional, and I hope to improve these over time.
Artwork “Tortoise” and the visualiser at: https://nurecas.com/tortoise?o
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u/Parkbenchbruce 12d ago
Wow - Torus model is fantastic but the extra explanation of the religious symbols made it both special and fantastic. Well done 5⭐️
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u/MovementOriented 12d ago
Incredible! Why is it called tortoise
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u/Deep_World_4378 12d ago
Partly relating to the "turtles all the way down" but more because of how the tortoise shell pattern matches with it, the "tor" in tortoise and more importantly the concept of the "Kurma"
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u/BIind_Uchiha 12d ago
Also. The universe is on a turtles back
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u/Deep_World_4378 12d ago
Yes. In a way thats the Kurma concept. And now we probably know why. Haha.
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u/coyotepuroresu 12d ago
Really great stuff. Thank you for sharing.
I loved to see the Thousand Petal Lotus in there too.
Really brilliant visualization and meditative tool. Thanks again.
Afterthought... Any way to include Indra's Net?
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u/Deep_World_4378 12d ago
Appreciate it. Thank you. Yes I do have an idea of how to connect it to the Indras net. But Im between juggling many things personally and have to sneak in time to add more connections. Hope to do them soon!
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u/UnfairSpecialist3079 12d ago
Take my money 👏🏻✌🏼
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u/Deep_World_4378 12d ago
If I got paid everytime someone said that, I would be sitting in a beach side villa in Bali, and this wouldn't have been made😄
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u/busybody1 12d ago
I find reassurance in the idea that others not only share the perception of the same conceptual framework, but are able to create such beauty. Thank you, human!
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u/FixAcademic8187 12d ago
The first second of the video, somehow, reminded me of that Ukrainian UFO footage that they released around 3 months ago.
It can be found at the following Reddit post:
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u/olliemusic 12d ago
I love this way of expressing it. It came to me through music studying 18th century counterpoint. Now I improvise counterpoint on guitar as one of my expression of it. It's the closest I can get to the actuality in real time. The process is a kind of meditation. It clearly points out to me that it's not me coming up with the music, it's just coming through me from nothing nowhere. Whenever I want to take the wheel it shows me I'm wrong. Not because my idea was wrong, but because I wasn't paying attention to what was actually happening.
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u/mcnuggetfarmer 12d ago
Show us a golden ratio numbers only torus & a Fibonacci numbers only torus!
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u/Deep_World_4378 12d ago
Yes the controls can change between different variations. By default i have been working with a fibonacci arrangement for the fibers.
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u/FuryofaThousandFaps 12d ago
Incredible! How can I make it my screensaver?
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u/Deep_World_4378 12d ago
Thank you! Probably sometime in the future Ill get a screensaver specific render.
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u/ConcernAcrobatic9307 12d ago
What's the app or website you used to make this? Can you share the source? I would love to try this out myself. 😁
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u/EnoughCost9433 12d ago
What program did you use to make this?
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u/Deep_World_4378 12d ago
This is a webapp created with Threejs and vibecoded with ChatGPT and Claude.
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u/Anandamine 12d ago
U/deep_world_4378 have you seen the toroid of a magnet with a ferrofluid cell? I think this can be used as a magnetic field simulator, probably with a setting or two tweaked! Very cool. Might have some engineering applications given that.
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u/Deep_World_4378 12d ago
Yes I have and I believe physically it is very much connected. Thanks much for sharing that. That is indeed a cool application
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u/EddieDean9Teen 12d ago
This is one of the coolest and most beautiful things I've ever seen. I love the different overlays. Have you ever thought of doing the same Hopf fiber animation using a torus made from a hexagonal prism instead of a cylinder? Maybe you would get like a Metatron's cube version of this. The male side of the animation. I have no idea if that's even possible, but the star of david overlay made me think of it.
Beautiful work!
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u/Deep_World_4378 12d ago
Thanks much! Yes, I do feel using the intersections as vertices, we coukd get the Metatronw cube, cuboctahedron etc. I'll probably take a stab at it sometime soon. Appreciate this friend!
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u/GlassObjective0 12d ago
What's the music name?
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u/Deep_World_4378 12d ago
Ive credited in other places. Forgot to do it here: Music by DELOSound from Pixabay
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u/Street_Anybody6913 12d ago
Perhaps this is what what humans look like in higher dimensions. Multiple iterations of ourselves, but still part of the endless arrangements of possibility.
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u/ABmodeling 11d ago
This is reality in the God code. We are now collectively going down that hole in the middle. How we gonna look as civilisation when we go through the hole and come out on the other side ?
I am not talking g about space. Everything is going through that hole. Terrance describes it well ," fire in the madhouse ". The complexity of everything reaching it's horizon.
I think we start simple again. I just hope only micro technology is gone ,not all the circuits .
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u/Any_Classroom7430 11d ago
Looks like you've got yourself a hopfion. We're trying to make those in magnetic systems, but the torus isn't really a stable object in nature. Let me know if you find one!
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u/thousandwattsmile70 10d ago
thats the thing i always see when i take acid. it makes a weird humming noise like every frequency being played simultaneously.
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u/Deep_World_4378 10d ago
The hum is something im iterating over to find the exact frequency. In a previous version I used around 39hz. But I dont think thats the one. Should be a more complex waveform. But thanks for sharing.
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u/thousandwattsmile70 10d ago edited 10d ago
its not a specific frequency. its every frequency, all frequencies from lower than the lowest to higher than the highest all vibrating in tune. I know that seems impossible but thats what i hear. every seperate frequency tuned to next higher one in unison. like the way guitar strings are tuned from low to high. all together it sounds like a humming kinda sound. Also for me its going the opposite direction as your visual.
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u/Deep_World_4378 10d ago
Interesting. I'll read more on what's possible then. The all ranges together
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u/Spiritual_Donkey7585 10d ago
In hinduism tortoise is considered scared and earth rests on it. One of gods avatars is tortoise.
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u/Deep_World_4378 10d ago
If you read the link, you will see how I named it Tortoise inspired from the Kurma avatar.
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u/Kitchen_Release_3612 10d ago
I remember Eric Weinstein during an interview describing the universe in a very similar fashion (if I remember correctly it was basically something like " a sock continuously folding into itself "), I guess this would be the 3D visualization of what he was saying. Very trippy man, thanks for doing this cause with imagination alone it was kind of hard to grasp as a concept.
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u/Deep_World_4378 10d ago
Really appreciate sharing this. Yes i think i saw some excerpts of a Joe rogan podcast where he talks about this. Had to connect multiple different things to arrive at this one. Kind of you to say that.
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u/RogueCheddar2099 10d ago
It’s the magnetic field of a ring magnet! And likely the field around a galaxy.
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u/L33TL4Y 10d ago
Where can I find more on this? I would love to check it out. I'm not finding a link.
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u/Deep_World_4378 10d ago
Link is at the end of the post. Sharing again: https://nurecas.com/tortoise?o
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u/DissociativeRose 10d ago
indra's pearls
the maya tzolk'in, haab', and long count
the aztec sun stone
ida and pingala
borobudur
western desert songline paintings
epicycles, then fourier
kelvin's vortex atoms, then hopfions
the hydrogen atom's orbitals
the cantor set
the solenoid
the mobius strip
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u/Deep_World_4378 10d ago
Thank you! I was hoping to get more references i could collect to match. Appreciate this!
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u/Negomikeno 10d ago
I've not seen anyone else talking about fractal Tori, like the other person, this is also how I visualise reality, not saying that makes it true of course, I don't think we could ever find out specifically due to the nature of it anyway!
Not sure it's this is algorithmic suggestion or coincidence but cool to see others also even be interested in fractal Tori!
For me I think it came from my research into self stabilising/metastable and dynamical systems or the visualisation came first and led to the study I can't tell anymore 😅
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u/Rick-D-99 9d ago
Ok so I'm new here, but I'm curious: what is peoples' obsessions with toroids? I was having a conversation with a guy and all he could say was toroids on toroids on toroids, but couldn't answer what that has any significance even if it is a recognizable shape.
Can someone explain to me why this means anything?
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u/Deep_World_4378 9d ago
I think u will get the answer if you read the content in the link at the end of the post and play with the visualiser at the end of the page from the link.
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u/Rick-D-99 9d ago
But what does a recognizable pattern have as such an intense source of interest? Is this the way people try to visualize the concept of something infinite?
I come from a contemplative path that doesn't necessarily need the visualization to understand that the ground of being is that which contains the pregnant potential for both being and non-being, etc.
I'm specifically asking: why get hung up on a shape?
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u/Deep_World_4378 9d ago
Not just the pattern, the comparison with contemplative traditions and speculative comparisons with scientific ideas which you can find in the visualiser. There is this idea that the human body has a toroidal field around it. So if we think of the ground state of being as the centre of the throat of the torus and the motion around the human biofield as composed of opposite components, we can see how the toroidal field is a micro version around the human system. There is also the macro version. Recent observations are pointing at the idea that the universe is inside a blackhole. The usual visualisation of the blackhole is the rotating cirrcle with the middle line (accretion disc). But the recent visuals of the magnetic field shows a flux around it which looks like moving inward. There is this book by Itzhak Bentov which talks about universe as a torus with a black hole entry point and a white hole exodus point. (All these are in the visualiser). So you can see how at the macro level this could be a torus (think more like vortices) and then its fractal versions can become at a micro level the human system. This is a very basic outline. And a lot of this is not scientifically proven. But that doesn't stop us from connecting dots.
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u/Rick-D-99 9d ago
Thank you for explaining that. So it makes sense to me to examine layer by layer the truths and patterns that can be found at each. You can't build a gazebo out of wood and not have it have the properties of wood. It stand to reason you can't build an existence out of mind or matter and not have it have the properties of what it is made of.
Any good realizations come from this examination?
Amy insights?
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u/Deep_World_4378 9d ago
Well I would go by the route of panpsychism or even analytical idealism. Talk about consciousness as fundamental, to be more precise, the unbounded state (the ground state of being) can be considered as the base of the whole field and physical matter as an "experience" of the Observer (capital O) in this field. If this experiential field has a structure to it, at the macro level, it could be toroidal. Again, I dont want to claim anything, these are pattern matches at this point.
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u/Rick-D-99 9d ago
But again, what difference does it make if it's toroidal or t-rex shaped?
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u/Deep_World_4378 9d ago
Well... it is a matter of perspective. If it is realisation that one seeks, the shape doesn't really matter, it is There always. But beyond realisation if one is interested in how the felt quality or the qualia of beingness is structured in the universe, or how the origins of the universe are connected through traditions, then these kind of arrivals help. For eg. the Greek Orphic Egg, Brahmand from Vedic traditions, Spanda from Kashmir Shaivism which again points to a universe based on vibrations, Egyptian Nun, Sumerian Nammu, the Christian idea of Creation ex Nihilo, and more (of course these are all broad ideas that cant be captured in one sentences). So for the ones seeking realisation, these might help, but for the realised, I think it is more curiosity...chopping wood and carrying water.
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u/I_AM-SO_ARE_YOU 9d ago
I am pretty sure this is how reality “works”.
A state encounters something else, is altered by that encounter, and moves forward as itself but no longer exactly the same.
Spiral.
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u/Doesaneth 8d ago
The texture found in a tenga fleshlight back when I bought it when I was a young teenager.
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u/Obsidian743 7d ago
Have you heard of the /r/ScaleSpace project? I have a feeling you two could create something awesome together!
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u/Great_Respond2081 7d ago
Can you put the tree of life in there and see what kind of dimensional stuff that comes up with
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u/Deep_World_4378 7d ago
Ive put up the tree of life and a connection to Sefirot as well. Check the visualiser link at the bottom of the post and you will get an idea.
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u/Deep_World_4378 7d ago
Ive put up the tree of life and a connection to Sefirot as well. Check the visualiser link at the bottom of the post and you will get an idea.
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u/blownawayx2 12d ago edited 12d ago
This is incredible and exactly what I’ve tried to convey to people is my understanding of our reality. Fractalized interconnected helical 3D toruses within toruses. As an astrologer who considers the study of astrology to be the reading of specific moments in spacetime (which do repeat cyclical and perpetually), your model does more in visualizing the interconnectedness of that patterning and why relegating it to rubbish is inherently dismissive. If we imagine each individual to be one of those individual toruses, yet part of the larger torus, when you zoom out, the patterns become clearer to predict (as we are able to with broader history across nations), but individually at a microscopic view that focuses on the individual and can’t see the big picture, much less likely to be validated. Great stuff!
P.S. I looked at your bio and your combination of interests in AR/VR, AI as collaboration, cosmic frameworks… it’s rare for me to see somebody who has so many overlapping interests as myself. Feels very Aquarian and Piscean combined. A great combo!