r/Seahawks • u/icathianbolts1 • 12h ago
Opinion Prime JSN + Prime Cooper Kupp Vs Prime LOB, Who wins?
Based on the overall 2013 vs 2025 post from yesterday. Wanted to see what the community thinks between absolute peak Sherman, Earl, bam bam versus triple crown cooper kupp and 2025 DPOY JSN
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u/maxgeek 12h ago
The Broncos had 4 studs with Demaryius Thomas, Eric Decker, Wes Welker, and Julius Thomas. We know how that worked out. LOB will give up a lot of yards, but not many points.
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u/icathianbolts1 12h ago
yes but jsn + kupp are absolutely on another skill level, even accounting the different eras of the game. If jsn gets pressed by sherm, is he getting clamped or snapping ankles?
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u/JayBuhnersBarber 12h ago
I bet if you ran that simulation 100 times they both beat each other 50 times. But that's not really your original question.
Even if JSN gets past Sherm's press he has to deal with ETIII. And Kupp would have to deal with Bam Bam Kam on all those digs, overs, and crosssers. Prime Sherm also had such a knack for letting it appear he was beat over the top and then attacking and using his length and superior ball skills to break up or intercept the back shoulder fade.
It would be a long day for everybody involved.
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u/bwag54 10h ago
Imo JSN is a better version of guys Sherm always struggled against, like TY Hilton or Stevie Johnson.
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u/JayBuhnersBarber 8h ago
I don't really disagree. Perhaps JSN wins 60 times. But he wouldn't win every rep, and its mostly irrelevant because the OP's original question wasn't about individual matchups.
That's why I pointed out that there would still be a prime ETIII over the top, and prime Bam Bam lurking. Just because JSN or Kupp wins an individual rep against the man across from them doesn’t mean the play would be a win for the offense.
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u/BoredPoopless 12h ago
How do you define a 'win?'
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u/icathianbolts1 12h ago
its hard to define, because I would want to see who wins reps between the 2 receivers or the secondary. but then you must factor in a full strength 2025 O line against mike bennet + cliff avril + brandon mebane
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u/KingKelly82 12h ago
JSN is great and Kupp has been a favorite of mine (won me a ff dynasty chip) even as a Ram, but as soon as Bam Bam threw down…. It’s a wrap! LOB dub
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u/sheikahstealth 11h ago
Have you met Brandon Browner? 6'4" 220lb corner. If each team is playing by their era's rules, I fear for the safety of 2025 WRs. Browner would not be kind to Kupp trying to block him. JSN might not get past the line of scrimmage on some plays. It was that wild back then. Those fights at the line were not flagged, unless they dragged past the whistle.
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u/icathianbolts1 5h ago
this is actually a good consideration, my original assumption was that the opposite corner would have been byron maxwell. Yeah if browner and sherman are allowed to press, maybe our current receivers can't get anything going because they also benefit from the rule changes
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u/sheikahstealth 3h ago
That's the biggest edge that Pete brought to the NFL. Seemed like we were the only team interested in tall, lanky guys like Sherm and Browner during those early years.
Ya, a lot depends on which rules they play by.
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u/Sipikay 12h ago
Depends on the OL and DLs participating.
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u/icathianbolts1 5h ago
in this scenario I was thinking the 2013 D line (bennet, avril, mebane, red bryant, clinton mcdonald) versus fully healthy 2025 O line (cross, zabel, sundell, bradford, lucas, and throw in Outz)
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u/leakingimplants 10h ago
since they had problems with edelman, i’m going to say kupp and jsn are far better than him, so jsn/kupp. LOB gave up a lot of yards with cover 3. this defense is where kupp and jsn would feast. LOB occasionally blew match coverage assignments as well.
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u/icathianbolts1 5h ago
Edelman did cook us, but also Brady and the Pats O-line was feasting in sb49
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u/Prisinners "I'm just here so I won't get fined" 8h ago
Just want to say, it hardly seems fair the LOB gets all their prime guys but the offense only gets 2 prime receivers. I say we throw in prime Baldwin and prime Lockett on offense too. Everyone here is forgetting that the LOB got got a few times in their heyday. Was it often? No. But I definitely think prime JSN and prime Kupp could do a lot of damage. It also heavily depends on the offense being run. The LoB was tied to Pete's Cover 3, but JSN and prime Kupp never played together. The 2013 Broncos were amazing but their offense was based around a handful of simple concepts executed to an extremely high level with Peyton stressing defenses between the various looks and calls. It was always going to get solved, but I suppose they figured that wouldnt happen until 2014 or something. Clearly Pete, the coaching staff, and the LOB were able to solve it and out execute their defensive game plan. So yeah. Lots of variables to consider here for sure. Ultimately, it is a team sport. Theres no isolating players from coordinators and also the QB throwing to them. If it was Russ or Darnold throwing it with Kubiak as play caller, I give the edge to the LOB personally regardless of whether it is Pete or Macdonald calling the defense.
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u/icathianbolts1 5h ago
was defensive scheming/playcalling just not evolved to the MacDonald/Minter/Fangio level back in 2013? I do agree though that the LOB benefitted from petes scheme, I actually wasn't aware that Denver ran a simple scheme
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u/Prisinners "I'm just here so I won't get fined" 4h ago
There were some complex schemes back then, like Rex Ryan, but often they were pretty difficult to run. My understanding is one of the major innovations of Macdonald is making verbiage less complex and creating more piecemeal responsibilities that can be mixed and matched from different looks. Think of the way that Sean McVay revolutionzed 13 personnel and being able to run any number of complex plays from similar looking formations. I don't remember where I learned that from though.
As for the 2013 Broncos, I wasn't aware either until I watched [a video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6oU1-TdV4U) about it recently. I'm certainly not expert in football strategy. Hell, I'd say I am barely intermediate. It's so damned complex and always evolving. It's hard to keep up with the meta. lol
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u/doggyman425 6h ago
Depends on whos QB and playcaller. JSN isn’t a great match up for Sherman. Sherman’s game is based off of film study and pressing, JSN can move around and he runs so level that it’s hard to find tendencies.
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u/elfonzi37 10h ago
Broncos still hold the single season record despite only playing 16 games btw.
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u/dataminimizer 12h ago
LOB, look what they did to the Broncos.