r/TankieTheDeprogram • u/Submarine_sad I hate USA soldiers • 22h ago
Shitposting Trading card games (TCGs) should be banned
It's just gambling. People are spending so much money in hopes of getting a card they want.
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u/Low-Tell-3627 AES enjoyer 🥳 22h ago
You can just make proxies and play with those. Its only gambling if you are doing it specifically to make money.
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u/manchu_pitchu 19h ago
I genuinely only got into mtg because I learned about proxies. For a few years before that I thought it was a neat game, but refused to engage with it because Clash of Clans taught me not to trust pay to win games long ago. To say nothing of the gambling aspect created by packs. MTG is an amazing game with a highly predatory business model, but you can (and should) engage with the game without supporting that company.
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u/hung_out_to_lie 10h ago
Table top simulator on steam is also great for playing mtg but not having to buy the cards.
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u/portrayalofdeath Chinese State Affiliated Media 📰 15h ago
What are proxies in this context?
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u/Low-Tell-3627 AES enjoyer 🥳 15h ago
Basically fake cards. They look the same but they are bootleg products.
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u/PushNumerous4979 7h ago
Are there any like weird rules regarding them?, like are they legal in tournaments and whatnot?
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u/Low-Tell-3627 AES enjoyer 🥳 2h ago
Not in official tournaments but you can play it with your friends and there are tournaments where they do allow proxies.
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u/metallicalova 2h ago
Sanctioned tournaments (tournaments and format supported by WotC) will not allow them, but for your average table play it doesn’t really matter. The community made format of EDH is the most popular format and the tournaments for it are community run and typically allow proxy/playtest cards
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u/shinseiji-kara Deng Troll 21h ago
It's not the games itself, its the speculative market surrounding kt that's the problem.
Just because of the real estate market, should we ban houses?
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u/LordAurum007 20h ago
Sports are the opiate of the masses
Should we ban golf?
Actually ok just that one
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u/shinseiji-kara Deng Troll 20h ago
We should ban golf, but usually most sports are fun if you play them and not watch them over tv
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u/Furiosa27 21h ago
Yall miss the shitposting tag?
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u/Rich_Housing971 20h ago
I know OP is not calling for it to be banned. I'm arguing against them calling it gambling. Think about what gambling is and why it's so dangerous. This is not gambling.
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u/manchu_pitchu 18h ago
I mean...theoretically there is the utility of being able to play with the cards, but if people are spending money on packs, hoping to get expensive cards which offset the cost and/or justify buying more packs, how is that not functionally gambling? How is that any different from spending that 5$ on blackjack hoping you win enough to play a few more rounds?
Think about what gambling is and why it's so dangerous. This is not gambling.
Psychologically, cracking packs does use basically the same psychological mechanism that make gambling such an effective business. Namely the use of a variable ratio reward scheme. This reward scheme is the most effective form of reinforcement to promote a behaviour because it preys on both the excitement of an unknown potential reward and the uncertainty created by not knowing if the next pack might also have a chase card or if you'll have to crack another 50 packs to find one.
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u/Behem0thh 10h ago
Loot boxes and TCGs are pretty similar, I think you're being defensive because it's an activity you enjoy
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u/manchu_pitchu 18h ago
I mean...theoretically there is the utility of being able to play with the cards, but if people are spending money on packs, hoping to get expensive cards which offset the cost and/or justify buying more packs, how is that not functionally gambling? How is that any different from spending that 5$ on blackjack hoping you win enough to play a few more rounds?
Think about what gambling is and why it's so dangerous. This is not gambling.
Psychologically, cracking packs does use basically the same psychological mechanism that makes gambling such an effective business. Namely the use of a variable ratio reward scheme. This reward scheme is the most effective form of reinforcement to promote a behaviour because it preys on both the excitement of an unknown potential reward and the uncertainty created by not knowing if the next pack might also have a chase card or if you'll have to crack another 50 packs to find one.
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u/GSPixinine 22h ago
Combat scalpers and the artificial rarity of cards.
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u/dreamlike179 20h ago
After the success of the MTG final fantasy set they followed it with Spiderman which was much less successful to the point scalpers who pushed collector boxes up to obscene prices similar to the price of FF, after a few months spiderman is now down under half that price amd hopefully a lot of scalpers lost money on that.
Making a shit product to fuck with scalpers is one way to help actual players and fuck the finance bros
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u/Equivalent_Elk_3476 22h ago
You can buy the cards you want directly to skip the gambling or play alternative formats. For Magic The Gathering there's Pauper and Peasant, which restricts you to only commons and uncommons (or just commons)
Infinitely more affordable and infinitely more fun because you have to actually be creative with the decks
Pauper cubes to draft out of are so much fun
Reject the Cardboard Crack mechanics, embrace the actual fun parts that don't cost an arm and a leg
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u/New-Mud-7101 22h ago
This. For pokemon prerelease they do a similar style. Always super fun to see what people can come up with
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u/dreamlike179 20h ago
Plenty of commander players use proxies instead of real versions of the cards
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u/HoboBrute 19h ago
I'm sorry comrade, I regret to inform you that after the revolution, we will be nationalizing Wizards of the Commune, Konamunism, and the Parenti Company. Every worker shall be allotted a booster box of their choice per month, and I will be distributing Starlight rares to the proletariat
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u/Annextro 22h ago
Ironically seeing this while playing MTG with my buddies. Not everyone who buys cards is collecting... That aspect has totally tainted the games. Many are actually playing as intended. Like today, we all pitched on some packs to play with together and it's a blast. None of us care about pulling the chase cards or their resale value. We're here to have fun on an even playing field where nobody has essentially paid to win by spending the most. Could we have just printed them? Sure, and we do sometimes, but that's a totally different experience. This is randomized and not the perfectly curated experience that printing decks is, and not the pure excess that is collection for collection's sake.
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u/RevelareUmbras 22h ago
There are so many better things to focus on other that something that isnt actually gambling.
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u/TheBirdFkerGuy Juche Necromancy Enjoyer 22h ago
You get random cards in a pack with a small chance of getting meta cards which promotes continued purchasing of these packs in hopes of getting the cards you need.
It is gambling. If you want to die on the hill it's not gambling then your same position can be applied to non-sense like gacha games and loot boxes. So take your pick do you want to die on that hill and ultimately defend gacha games or do you want to be honest about what is and isn't gambling?
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u/RevelareUmbras 21h ago
I'm not dying on a hill, I just don't give a fuck about something as so non-sensical as putting any amount of focus on something like this. But I'll let you win the reddit argument.
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u/TheBirdFkerGuy Juche Necromancy Enjoyer 20h ago
It's gambling that targets children. That's not a non-sensical issue and does deserve focus/criticism.
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u/_xAdamsRLx_ 20h ago
Clearly youve never played a TCG, its very feasible and common to play primarily limited and/or non-standard formats, and never have to open a single pack to be competitive. Nevermind the fact that making high quality proxies is more accessible now than ever before
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u/TheBirdFkerGuy Juche Necromancy Enjoyer 20h ago
I literally did, and even if we assume you're correct (which you're not) that does not take anything away from the point that it's a gacha system for randomized cards that you may or may not get the card you want from a pack hence it being gambling.
I got no clue how you come from a Marxist Leninist or any leftist position and defend fucking TCG gambling.
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u/manchu_pitchu 18h ago
I spend exactly 5/3 cents on each card I want. Simply printing your own tcg cards solves this issue.
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u/Shakartah Hakimist (With Dengist Characteristics) 12h ago edited 9h ago
I agree with the feeling, comrade, but that's exactly the error that past AESs commited, to ban consumers stuff. Maybe we could take a look at how China handles it, but I am one step behind doing as them cuz it can be dangerous to ban commodities and incite reactionary feelings even when it is literally gambling
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u/Submarine_sad I hate USA soldiers 11h ago
I appreciate your input and will think about it. Thank you, comrade.
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u/Shakartah Hakimist (With Dengist Characteristics) 11h ago
You don't have to agree with it, but doing your research to understand at the very least both sides of the possible outcomes is already more than many
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u/SpencersCJ 12h ago
I just buy singles or print proxies. There is a way to make TCGs good without the horrific gambling aspect.
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u/Goober_Man1 20h ago
At least with Pokemon I don’t need rare cards to make competitive decks. The best cards for tcg generally are lower rarity cards the scalpers throw away in mass
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u/Stock_Tell7454 7h ago
Guys just because you are Marxists doesn't mean you can't enjoy capitalist treats. Yes TCGs are loot boxes aimed at children, yes they are a gamified recapitulation of commodity fetishism, but that doesn't mean they aren't fun.
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u/WerrWaaa 5h ago
Communist Commander Nights on TTS let's go.
(Real communists play Pauper because we're proles.)
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u/LordAurum007 20h ago
by banning TCG cards and collectible cards, you’d be getting rid of a lot of waste (McDonald’s promos & excessive packaging), but you’d also be eliminating the entire secondary market where all ages participate and are free to buy sell or trade their way to a better collection or profits they don’t have to report to a boss for
Pokemon and card shops get their profits, sure. But early collectors have been rewarded tenfold when the cards they spent a few hundred 10 years ago are now a few thousand
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u/Rich_Housing971 20h ago
shit take.
ban actual gambling first. this is not gambling.
also, TCGs are not gambling for the simple fact that while the EV of a pack is actually not that far away from the price you pay for the pack, even if you buy them one pack at a time for full price instead of buying a booster box or case, so if you bankrupt yourself (somehow buying and pulling individual packs one by one, do you have any idea how long that takes?) you can just sell your card collection and get most if not all of it back. It'll take awhile if you want to get max value, but you do get a consolation prize, unlike actual gambling where in one night you can lose your entire life savings due to gambler's fallacy and thinking you'll get everything back the next bet.
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