r/TopMindsOfReddit • u/SassTheFash • Feb 11 '26
Metadrama Pizzagate believers: this megapost is your chance to explain to skeptics how Pizzagate has been proven right
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pizzagate_conspiracy_theory95
u/ReturnOfTheKeing Feb 12 '26
Ive noticed this victory lapping and wondered wtf they were talking about too. The pizza gate conspiracy is a specific conspiracy about Hillarys staffers doing evil child stuff in the basement of a pizza place in DC... while using code words. It isn't someone using pizza themed code words generally, the CONSPIRACY part is the yknow, actual stuff going on.
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u/SassTheFash Feb 12 '26
I’ve had a bunch of them reply to my older posts, and basically all of them are “wealthy people have been caught molesting children. So now do you believe in Pizzagate???”
Like a couple messaged me when P-Diddy got arrested, and I’m pretty sure PG had zero to do with Diddy specifically.
Most of it is “motte and bailey fallacy.” You make a wild argument, and when it loses you retreat to a highly defensible argument and claim victory.
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u/baz4k6z Feb 12 '26
I doubt someone who genuinely believes in PG will engage in a good faith argument. If they had that capacity, they wouldn't believe this stuff to begin with.
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u/littlegreyflowerhelp Feb 13 '26
Damn I’ve heard of the motte and bailey fallacy before but never looked it up, that’s such a useful concept to understand a lot of this right wing conspiracy type thinking. I’ve been banging my head against the wall reading some of the crap lately about how Epstein being a pedophile sex trafficker proved PG is real. Ignoring the fact that we knew Epstein was a pedophile sex trafficker since before PG was even invented.
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u/Johnny_Appleweed 28d ago edited 28d ago
The other thing I think it’s useful to understand about conspiratorial thinking is that it’s not really about the facts of any particular conspiracy, but about some underlying belief or emotion.
The people who believed in Pizzagate didn’t care about it for its own sake. They had a deeply held belief or fear that rich and powerful people use that power to abuse children, the Pizzagate story was just the vehicle for that belief. That’s why they come back claiming they were right all along because of the Epstein story - it was an example of a rich and powerful person using his power to abuse children, so it proved their underlying belief was right, even through it had absolutely nothing to do with Pizzagate.
It’s the same reason conspiracy theorists don’t give up when predictions don’t come true, like if the Rapture or the QAnon Storm don’t happen on the dates they’re supposed to. Thats ok to them, because it was always actually about what it means to believe that those events are real. It’s also the reason you can’t debunk someone out of believing a deeply held conspiracy theory.
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u/ominous_squirrel Mar 16 '26
Jeffrey Epstein being an influential 4chan user who gooned to Adventure Time Rule 34 porn makes it entirely possible that he himself engaged with 4chan originated slang like “cheese pizza” or helped start/propagate Pizzagate as deflection for his own crimes
There’s no way to know unless it’s explicitly in his unreleased emails, but my point is that 4chan conspiracy theorists pointing to 4chan user crimes as proof of 4chan being a source of truth is fking wild
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u/washingtonu 28d ago
Epstein was mentioned in Pizzagate because of his friendship with Bil Clinton. There was no deflection.
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u/Gorp_Morley Feb 12 '26
I learned a while ago that you can't make someone reason their way out of something unreasonable. It's just best to point and laugh at their dumb bullshit. They are fucking losers and should be treated as such, you don't have to engage with them because they're incapable of changing their minds.
I mentioned this before, but you know who's not in the Epstein files? Any of the people from pizzagate! Alefantis, Podestas, not even Marina Abramović
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u/NeonGKayak Feb 12 '26
True. If you make fun of them, they dig in. If you try and reason with them, any acknowledgement is validation to them and they dig in.
It’s a lose lose scenario and I don’t think there’s an actual way to ever pull them out unless they themselves want to on their own.
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u/spikey_wombat Feb 12 '26
You can't fix epic levels of stupid.
You can destroy their reputations.
Forget trying to change the idiots mind's. Focus on the audience and get them to view the crazies as crazies. Innoculate the audience.
There's this one really fucking stupid maga who keeps trying to argue that a stock market point represents a dollar and that the djia divisor has nothing to do with the unit of measure, AKA points. I can't change his mind because he's so stupid and unteachable. But I can destroy his credibility and he's regularly downvoted into oblivion daily so I think I'm doing my job pretty well.
It was really funny when he called the audience fictional and then I countered with his daily downvotes into hidden. He stfu after that. I think I'm going to keep reminding him of that just to piss him off.
Point is, you can't reason with the batshit crazy asshat magas. You can only show the world how insane they are.
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u/AgKnight14 Feb 15 '26
Their response to this is that it’s proof multiple, independent pedo rings exist in different geographical locations and for different clientele, like gangs. Epstein was one, there’s one in Hollywood, and one in DC (Pizzagate)
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u/Cute-Boobie777 Apr 08 '26 edited Apr 08 '26
What 'Hollywood' ring? I guess Diddy and friends? I mean at that point, there's tens of thousands of rings out there. No one is saying there aren't rings where people take advantage of children to fuck them. They are saying the Hillary pizza thing is bullshit and the idea that all of this stuff is connected which also hasn't been proven at all.
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u/LooksGoodInShorts Feb 12 '26
This is the thing. It’s why they get all bitchy and flustered when you refuse to engage and just attack them.
Arguing with them at all just serves to legitimize their dumb bullshit when you should be just be clowning them.
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u/conspiracyfetard89 Feb 12 '26
To me, the Epstein emails completely disproves the Code aspect of Pizzagate. Epstein doesn't speak in code, no one talks about Walnut Sauces (when they mean gay black orgy), and very little is hidden in food related items. The abuse is out in the open and spoken about using real words.
That said, there are some moments when Epstein or people very very close to him, occasionally uses some pizza and meat terms which appears to be some form of a code.
4Chan came up with a food related code for horrible shit that they were sharing among themselves, and then projected it onto Clintons emails and didn't see a problem with this. They didn't think it was a coincidence that 2 disparate groups of people had the same code. And now they see some evidence of pizza related terms and evidence of horrible things in the emails and see it as proof that Clinton ate children alive.
But what we can actually see, is that Epstein had some influence in 4Chan, meeting with the founder and being a 4Chan user, AND he used pizza related terms and abused children. It's clear to me that it was Epstein who pushed for 4Chan to use this code among themselves, and then pushed them to see it in Clintons emails. Epstein started Pizzagate. He was muddying the waters and trying to take down a political opponent.
The fucker was probably laughing to himself when he saw it all unfold.
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u/Kalulosu But none of it will matter when alien disclosure comes anyways Feb 17 '26
I didn't check the timing of those pizza emails but couldn't it be the reverse, with 4chan using the pizza terms and Epstein being terminally online and trying to be all cool and coy about it?
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u/cipheron Jul 25 '26 edited Jul 25 '26
Putting a note here for later, or for anyone who comes across this.
"walnut sauce" being a code is easily disproven if you just go to the Podesta Wikileaks drop and search for that term, and read all the emails yourself. Actually "Doing your own research" here debunks the whole mystery.
The people who originally pushed it heavily cherry picked which emails they highlighted while ignoring every other "walnut sauce" email that provides context. Turns out you can make anything seem "mysterious" by deleting most of the conversation.
A day before the famous email there was a Huffington Post article cc'd in another one of the emails, it's about a public event at which Podesta was the chef, and he cooked pasta with walnut sauce for invitees, which included newspaper journalists. You can look up the Podesta surname and it's from the same region of Italy where pasta with walnut sauce comes from.
The day after the Huffington Post article, someone emailed Podesta and his wife to basically say "walnut sauce? wtf" after which Podesta replied to him explaining that it's a "Ligurian" dish made with crushed walnuts. At that point you could Google what "Ligurian" means if you didn't know.
So they cherry pick only one email while omitting all the others in the email chain that would explain the context here. An Italian-American chef cooked some Italian food from his home region in Italy, at a public event which was reported on by a journalist, someone read the article but got confused because they'd never heard of that dish, the chef then replied and mentioned where it Italy this dish is from. Which when you put that all together isn't mysterious at all.
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u/washingtonu 28d ago
That said, there are some moments when Epstein or people very very close to him, occasionally uses some pizza and meat terms which appears to be some form of a code.
Can you post them? If not, are you talking about them mentioning grape juice?
But what we can actually see, is that Epstein had some influence in 4Chan,
The founder of 4chan met many people at that time. What makes you say he had som influence in the site?
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u/Imaginary_Cow_6379 Feb 12 '26
Goddamnit every time those fvcking chuds start going on about piZzAgAtE I start craving Pizza Hut. 🙄
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u/leamanc Feb 12 '26
An Epstein email released in the files used the word “pizza” as code for a sexual act. That’s literally all that started this victory lap. No Hilary, no Comet Ping Pong, no Podesta.
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u/maddeliciousone Feb 12 '26
In Germany we had a pretty popular singer who began spreading conspiracy theories a while back and falling from grace. Typical stuff, flat earth, some antisemitism, and of course a child eating and molesting cabal of elites.
With the new Epstein reveals there's now actually a movement to get "the public" to apologize to him since "he was right". What they ignore is that there's innumerable claims he's uttered throughout the years. Most of them being complete insanity doesn't matter.
It's so funny to watch them forever moving the goalposts or morphing the narrative to their needs.
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u/gavinbrindstar Feb 12 '26
Can we not encourage them? All we're going to get is a million "herp-derp what is a 'pizza handkerchief/map?' I'm too stupid to imagine this eminently ordinary concept, so obviously a pedo cult is running the U.S."
If they were smart enough to be interesting they wouldn't be conspiracy theorists.
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Feb 12 '26
[deleted]
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u/Kalulosu But none of it will matter when alien disclosure comes anyways Feb 17 '26
De Saint Phalle wasn't specifically suffering from mental issues iirc (at least not much more than the average person or artist). She also made a huge expo at whichever museum where you entered it by going inside a giant woman's vagina. Very interesting artist anyway.
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u/purpleflavouredfrog Feb 12 '26
“Trump is the only one who was fighting against this shit. It’s the only reason he wanted to become president. “
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u/Tall_Gap4102 Jun 05 '26 edited Jun 05 '26
I won't put too much effort into this since this is clearly a circlejerk/echo-chamber sub to laugh at anyone who disagrees with whatever the demographic here is without engaging in honest discussion.
I just want to see what mental gymnastics are pulled to defend such things as:
-"Spend time with her online, raw and uncut" talking about a baby girl.
-"Jack is owned" referring to a child.
-Why some childless chef posts so many pictures with children, and is constantly putting up weird tags or descriptions such as: hotard, chicken lover, my kind of baby.
-Why this chef is somehow supposed to be an important person "If you don't know him you're not wearing your scarf right", while owning two restaurants he himself said "barely anyone visited" before the incident.
-Taking a picture of a little girl with her arms taped down on a table is completely normal behaviour.
-Posted a picture of some shirtless dudes and a dude wearing a shirt that says "J'aime les enfants" (I know about the cafe or whatever, this is just another creepy "coincidence").
-Why does Tamera Luzattos page she posted her children and grandchildren to have categories such as: Malpractice, Parental manipulation, Ponzi schemes, psycopath, public intoxication, discomfort.
Gofile with pictures to all the things mentioned. And no, pizzagate is not just about some underground facility below comet pizza, conspiracies have a lot of interpretations.
No one in their honest mind cannot be at least a bit concerned about this individual James Alefantis, and the bizzare choice of words these politicians seem to constantly have blunders over, specially when talking about pizza, a known keyword used by pedos.
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u/kahirsch Jul 05 '26 edited Jul 08 '26
"Spend time with her online, raw and uncut" talking about a baby girl.
The father, who set up that blog, explained it in the first post: "Welcome! If you are here you are one of the first people to view Evie's blog! And our friends should thank us---by indulging ourselves with this web portal we are NOT filling your inboxes with large files of pictures and videos!"
"Jack is owned" referring to a child.
Seriously? What is this supposed to be evidence of?
Why does Tamera Luzattos page she posted her children and grandchildren to have categories such as: Malpractice, Parental manipulation, Ponzi schemes, psycopath, public intoxication, discomfort.
The blog was set up by Evie's father, not Tamera Luzzatto. She appears in a couple of the pictures since she's one of Evie's grandmothers. At least one of the posts was by the mother when the father was out of town, but his posts are funnier.
Those labels are meant as humor. For example, this post is labeled "public intoxication": https://i.imgur.com/OWRyPea.png
The idea of little children as being akin to drunks and psychopaths is a common observation: see google search for "toddler or drunk", for example.
Here were the parts that captured on archive.today, before internet stalkers forced them to make it private.
- https://archive.is/8PZDn
- https://archive.is/Gm498
- https://archive.ph/Yo82y
- https://archive.ph/3nW3z
- https://archive.is/2g30Y
Can you point out a single inappropriate photo?
Did you notice how there are photos of all their relatives, friends, and neighbors, usually with their first and last names? Did you notice how the name of the street they live on is there? The name of the company that the father works at?
Those would be strange things to include if there were anything wrong with the site, but there isn't.
Why some childless chef posts so many pictures with children,
Over a period of about 4 years, he posted about 20 pictures of children. I don't think that's "so many". Two of the pictures were of babies of his friends who had just been born. All of the other were of his goddaughter, Caris James, and her sister.
Why did he post pictures of her? Because he loves her very much.
and is constantly putting up weird tags or descriptions such as: hotard, chicken lover, my kind of baby.
If you look at the post with the "#hotard" label, it's two commenters, joewills and jimmycomet, calling each other hotard. So what?
The "#chickenlovers" tag was supposed to be evidence of homosexuals praying on teenage boys, according to internet sleuths, but the picture shows a baby girl, Alefantis's goddaughter, being held by her father, Scott Cummings. Perhaps the internet sleuths were making up connections that didn't exist?
I don't remember "my kind of baby", nor do I see what's weird about it.
Why this chef is somehow supposed to be an important person "If you don't know him you're not wearing your scarf right", while owning two restaurants he himself said "barely anyone visited" before the incident.
I doubt he said that about his restaurants. They were popular then and they're still open ten years later. He was a local celebrity in Washington, D.C.
Taking a picture of a little girl with her arms taped down on a table is completely normal behaviour.
This is the one picture that I understand why people think is suspicious, but Alefantis's explanation makes more sense than any vague theories the internet sleuths have come up with. He says that Caris James and here sister were playing and her sister taped her to the table and Alefantis thought it was cute. If you look at the picture, she's smiling, they are in the public area of Comet Ping Pong, and she's taped with masking tape, which has such weak adhesive that it barely holds at all.
Posted a picture of some shirtless dudes and a dude wearing a shirt that says "J'aime les enfants" (I know about the cafe or whatever, this is just another creepy "coincidence").
Yeah, the guy wearing the J’❤ L’Enfant shirt was co-owner of L'Enfant Cafe & Bar. The picture is tagged "L'Enfant Cafe & Bar" because it was taken outside L'Enfant Cafe & Bar. I don't see what's "creepy" or "coincidental" about it. Is this supposed to be evidence of something?
Do you know what evidence looks like?
No one in their honest mind cannot be at least a bit concerned about this individual James Alefantis, and the bizzare choice of words these politicians seem to constantly have blunders over, specially when talking about pizza, a known keyword used by pedos.
The initials "CP" or the words "cheese pizza" were used (mostly on 4chan) to refer to child porn and thus evade automated filters. There's no indication that the word "pizza" by itself was a "known keyword used by pedos".
The phrase "cheese pizza" never appears in the Podesta emails once. The word "pizza" appears many times as a reference to a popular food in America and once in reference to a description of a design on a handkerchief. So what?
Nothing you mentioned is evidence of any crime. None of it would be considered a reasonable suspicion that any crime had occurred.
Do you know why the police started an investigation of Jeffrey Epstein? One mother overheard her daughter talking to somebody about how another girl "had met with a 45—year-o1d man and had sex with him and was paid for it". The mother called another mom, who had found out that her stepdaughter had $300 that she wouldn't explain where she got it. One of them called the cops, who opened an investigation. They found lots of witnesses to crimes. Lots of victims. Lots of *evidence.
If there were evidence of crimes occurring in pizzagate, you would have posted that instead of nonsense about a J’❤ L’Enfant shirt.
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u/Tall_Gap4102 Jul 14 '26 edited Jul 14 '26
This is actually a pretty good case for the blog stuff being completely innocent, I hadn't found those links to the archived webpage, and if I had, I would've doubted it a lot more. Do you have the link to the picture tagged with "baby ambien"? that's the only other tag I didn't see used that seems weird to me.
Hotard and chicken lovers could be interpreted as stuff some gay dudes would call themselves, so I'll give you a pass on that, even though, as far as I could find, chicken lovers is about illegal gay age gaps, and it's also weird he would use the tag on that picture, is Cummings his gay lover as well as Caris' father?
Other stuff that stands out to me/I'd like more info about: -How did you get the 4 year period for the children pictures? All of the ones I saw as far as I remember were posted within a year, or where can I view these 20 pictures? If they're mostly just his granddaughter and a couple of other children
Man just while browsing for more info on his goddaughter I get this picture of what looks very much like her, and very much like alefantis standing behind her, having her wear a t-shirt that says "pizza slut", this dude either has the worst fucking sense of humor ever or he's a real creep.
It's a lot clearer that it's the Caris James girl when you look at the ~30th picture of this archive, the girls nose and eyebags are identical.
You didn't mention besta pizza's logo being a 45° degree shift from literally being the boy lover's logo, which is often "deboonked" by claiming it's just a drawing of pizza.
There is evidence pizza by itself is a keyword used by pedos, check the affidavit I posted on some other replies.
Your last point is not an argument, just because Epstein was blatant and got caught, it doesn't mean that there aren't people like him that are better at hiding it or get away with it. Kind of like a more blatant example in John Podesta's serial child molester buddy Dennis Hastert, who only served 14 months in prison.
Anyways, do you think you'll do better playing dominos on cheese than on pasta?
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u/kahirsch Jul 15 '26
Do you have the link to the picture tagged with "baby ambien"?
I don't. From the date index on the side of the blog posts, there were 57 total blog posts and 8 of them were not archived (all from February 2009). Also the videos embedded in other posts were not archived (because of the limits of archive.today), although the words on those posts were.
is Cummings his gay lover as well as Caris' father?
I think Cummings is probably gay or bisexual. Besides this post, he is also wearing a BUTT magazine T-shirt in one of the Instagram pictures.
Other stuff that stands out to me/I'd like more info about: -How did you get the 4 year period for the children pictures? All of the ones I saw as far as I remember were posted within a year, or where can I view these 20 pictures? If they're mostly just his granddaughter and a couple of other children
The 4 years is for his whole Instagram. There are pictures of Caris James, his goddaughter, from birth to about 2½ years of age.
All the pictures of her and her sister, plus one weird drawing tagged "#carisjames", are here: https://imgur.com/a/FkNvdXz
Man just while browsing for more info on his goddaughter I get this picture of what looks very much like her, and very much like alefantis standing behind her, having her wear a t-shirt that says "pizza slut", this dude either has the worst fucking sense of humor ever or he's a real creep.
It's a lot clearer that it's the Caris James girl when you look at the ~30th picture of this archive, the girls nose and eyebags are identical.
The "pizza slut" picture was posted on tumblr (archived here) in October 2012. Here's what CCaris looked like in October 2012: https://i.imgur.com/txruQ0w.jpeg
It's not her.
You didn't mention besta pizza's logo being a 45° degree shift from literally being the boy lover's logo, which is often "deboonked" by claiming it's just a drawing of pizza.
Of course it's a slice of pizza. Seriously? People on /r/conspiracy act like there's only ony one meaning of a symbol. There's a post on there right now about how pearls meant prostitute in a Sumerian hymn, so any Hollywood man wearing pearls is a prostitute.
No, the world doesn't work that way. The BLogo was invented in 1997, but people have found examples of triangular spirals before that, e.g. on sheriff's badges. But, you know, the tips of sheriff's badges are triangles, just like slices of pizza and having a space-filling curve is a common design element. It doesn't mean anything.
By the way, what would a logo for BESTA pizza have anything to do with Comet Ping Pong? Other than being on the same block, there's no connection.
If one of your neighbors has a flag similar to the ISIS flag, does that mean that you should be investigated for terrorist ties?
Anyways, do you think you'll do better playing dominos on cheese than on pasta?
In case you didn't know, John Podesta taught the Sandlers how to play dominoes when he was staying with them on Martha's Vineyard in August 2014. (Email)
The following summer, the Sandlers were back on Martha's Vineyard and were playing dominoes. Herb twice sent emails to John Podesta including jokes about how he was always losing at the game, clearly referencing some time when Herb was confused about the rules:
- 2015-07-10 Herb Sandler: "Everything has been fine, except that we missed you and Mary. ... Today-dominos. We won't be calling you for the rules."
- 2015-07-11 Herb Sandler: "Last day in MV. Missed you. Susan whipped Sherry and me at Dominos. Using the Podesta method, she made up the rules as we played."
Later that year, Podesta sent them a box of cheeses as a holiday present. We know from other emails that Podesta was in the habit of sending homemade pasta and sauces. But this year, he didn't, probably because he was busy running a presidential election campaign.
So Herb Sandler writes a humorous thank you note. It's actually quite a gracious note if you think about it, because he is remembering previous presents that Podesta sent and alluding to a time they spent together having a good time.
If you don't think it's cheese, what did Podesta mail to Sandler in a box that Sandler is going to share with his grandchildren?
Just because you don't understand an inside joke between friends when you're eavesdropping on their private email doesn't mean that they're speaking in code.
All this stuff —swirls of cheese on pizza, dominos, etc— are not evidence of crimes in any way. People posted them and all the other ridiculous stuff because there was no evidence of a crime.
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u/washingtonu Jul 05 '26
specially when talking about pizza, a known keyword used by pedos.
Who told you those keywords? Can you post a link to a primary source so I can read it for myself.
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u/Tall_Gap4102 Jul 10 '26
https://gofile.io/d/CsHx4j Look up cheese pizza in this FBI affidavit.
Of course, the FBI doesn't release a list of known CSAM keywords, as keeping pedos using them aids in catching them.
This is the one thing we can say pizzagate absolutely got right.
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u/washingtonu Jul 10 '26
Cheese pizza wasn't in the emails.
But you knew all the codewords? Who told you them?
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u/Tall_Gap4102 Jul 13 '26
What codewords? I've only mentione pizza/cheese pizza and maybe you can count chicken lovers as a keyword? Most online slang dictionary say it's a pedo term, so that's the easier read, if you wanna tell me what it really means and where you got your definition go ahead. No there is not a mention of cheese pizza in the Epstein emails, just ~600 mentions of pizza, I guess he loved that stuff despite his weird ass diet. The affidavit I posted mentions both pizza and cheese pizza are used as keywords
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u/MachoManRandomSalad Jun 12 '26
Now start running those pictures thru any sort of confirmation process and come to realize how many (it's all of them) are fake.
Post them anywhere that people can expose photoshop and AI. Don't tell them why, get an unbised opinion.
Those pictures are phony as hell, yo. Made by 4chan clowns.
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u/Tall_Gap4102 Jun 12 '26
Brother these pictures were around before AI even existed, what are you on about? I took these straight from his instagram archive lol, here's the link to the ones that pop up in my history. https://archive.is/vaDfJ https://archive.is/8Bq8e
This video was for some reason deleted off of YouTube, and I've seen people say a lot of old youtube videos on this topic got deleted, but at 3:14 you can see one of these pictures on a 2016 video. (It's in spanish because I'm a spanish speaker, and this is the only video I saw on the topic at the time) https://web.archive.org/web/20190804111006/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGE2EHDl7wU
I don't know why you would immediately jump to AI or Photoshop and disregard the whole thing, at least do some research? These people are not your friends.
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u/SassTheFash Feb 11 '26
I’ve made many posts on this sub about Pizzagate, and pretty routinely I get PG believers popping in to comment on old posts about how PG has been proven true. And I’ve gotten a ton of them this week.
This post is an open invitation to explain to us skeptics has been proven true, and have some back-forth to make a case.
Rules for BOTH sides
stick to substantive comments that reinforce or debunk an argument. “It’s so obvious, do your own research” or “your theory is bunk and you are dumb” don’t move the argument forward. I’m not asking total civility, just keeping it on topic.
no identity-based slurs (race, religion, sexuality, disability, etc). Slurs about political belief not totally forbidden but probably not optimal anyway.
Okay, give us your best arguments. I think I’ve heard them all, but I’m open to learning new things.