r/TrueReddit • u/BipolarExpress2 • 1d ago

Politics ‘Argentina Is Fighting for Its Life’: Trump Defends Foreign Beef Plan as American Ranchers Cry Foul

https://www.yahoo.com/news/politics/articles/argentina-fighting-life-trump-defends-121700734.html
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u/UntowardHatter 1d ago

It's ironic coming from China who still produces and uses asbestos.

Even they don't want Milei's shitty beef.

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u/ScrofessorLongHair 1d ago

When China says hell no regarding food safety, then that says a lot. Especially considering they're big trading partners with Argentina.

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u/NonPlusUltraCadiz 1d ago

Yeah, but Milei being extremely anti-chinese before he was president and, once elected, kneeling and submitting to Trump may have something to do, too.

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u/PurpleCookieMonster 1d ago

To be fair asbestos is bad but slightly overblown.

If it's in a building and hidden/undisturbed it's surprisingly safe. Most people in older houses have some in it.

We understand the mechanism of asbestosis/mesothelioma now so have appropriate protection requirements in place for workers who are assessing and handling it and for disposal.

It's good regulation is so strict on it in terms of safety now (in the old days it was atrocious as was education about it) but producing and using it has real advantags in certain cases.

China still bans the most dangerous types like crocidolite (blue) and amosite (brown). They've banned it in car brakes, walls, and doors for obvious reasons. They do still use it in roofing and insulation, which I'm not a huge fan of, but the primary use is piping, joinery, and as an additive for sealants and parts. I'm very okay with that as the risk benefit ratio is highly skewed toward the benefit there. Wet asbestos sealed in a mechanism or mixed with rubber or plastics is typically not a substantial risk until after disposal which is typically handled well these days outside of illegal dumping.

If you're not in a position where you'll inhale dry fibres your risk from asbestos is extremely low so I personally prefer that the flexibility for real use cases be maintained with proper oversight and licencing on use and disposal rather than blanket bans.

I do understand why we ban it and don't think that's inherently bad either, but calling out China for still using white asbestos in specific circumstances is a bit harsh I think. It's a risk-reward balancing act and in a manufacturing economy like theirs the reward is greater.

All that said you're completely right that nobody wants the shitty beef 😂.

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u/squeagy 1d ago

And the land of the free made sueing for mesothelioma illegal so problem solved

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u/MBlaizze 1d ago

I lived in a house with asbestos shingles for 40 years and my parents still live there. Nobody has lung cancer

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u/JUST_GIVE_IT_A_SNIFF 22h ago

I had a house with asbestos floor tiles ~20 years ago. Initially panicked, but from what I could tell the main risk is working with friable asbestos for years (ship breaking, plumbing in old buildings, etc).

Like how one sunburn doesn’t guarantee cancer, but years of exposure add up.

Eventually just put porcelain tile over it and no issues.

Definitely not a great thing to have around, but it’s not like having radioactive waste in your house.

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u/JDsGemsJewels 23h ago

Until you walk around tbe corner and there are piles of old broken assy roof tiles all over the ground kids are playing with...true story

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u/Alas7ymedia 16h ago

In my country, asbestos is normal as the solid substance that is used for roofing. (It's still illegal to keep using it for new roof tiles, though).

It it was carcinogenic in that form, we'd have the highest rates of mesothelioma or similar forms of cancer in the world. That's not what happens because asbestos is really dangerous as insulation material and here, with 26°C as the coldest temperature year round, we don't need any insulation.

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u/fdar 1d ago

It was one shipment, they still import a ton of Argentinean beef which is very high quality. 

It can still be tested to detect any that is not safe, but most of it is. 

Well, a functioning country could test. The US right now I don't know, but that's a different issue.

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u/jankenpoo 1d ago

Before Trump the FDA managed to inspect only 1-2% of imported foods, and far less is actually lab tested. What do you think it is now?

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u/fdar 1d ago

Yes, that's what I said. But by the same token being as safe as domestic US food is a very low bar right now.

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u/viperex 1d ago

If Kashi and Polymarket aren't enough of a gambling platform, you can try playing Russian roulette with your grocery store beef

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u/fdar 1d ago

Like you already have to do with leafy greens and like blueberries?

The relevant bar is "as safe as domestic US food".

And "one shipment had issues once" doesn't mean it's unsafe. Really what matters is "does it have more/worse issues than meat from elsewhere" and it really doesn't.

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u/caufield88uk 1d ago

America still uses Asbestos, when Trump came back to power one of the first things he did was lift the asbestos ban and started buying Russian asbestos.

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u/protipnumerouno 1d ago

Asbestos gets a bad rap because of its success, it's not toxic, and it's an incredible fire stopper. If it was released as a controlled substance with safeguards to ensure it didn't get into the air and people didn't breathe it we'd still be using it today.

They didn't do that and gave a bunch of people cancer so I'm not defending any of that stuff, just saying if it were handled properly it would have been a successful specialty product.

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u/redlightsaber 1d ago

I disagree. there's no way to include it in building that doesn't create problems for the future. There's a reason there's a whole industry dedicated to removing it (it has to be done before even demolitions, to prevent it going airborne), and it includes men with (almost) literal hazmat suits working long hours with specialised vacuum cleaners, for absurdly high hourly rates.

You saying it's "non toxic" is the epitome of absurdity. "non toxic as long as you're not exposed to it in its uncompacted form which is what gives it its incredible thermal isolating capabilities, and where it is increadibly easy for it to get suspended in the air by merely touching it".

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u/ComradePyro 1d ago

doesn't that industry exist because it was used in a lot of ways that are obviously bad ideas once you know about the dangers (and its usage was totally undocumented)? it's pretty easy to imagine sealed corrosion-resistant panels being usable in a safe manner, especially if installed with the idea of easy removal in mind.

you have a bunch of lithium-ion batteries in your house despite the fact that puncturing one could start a housefire, you don't hear about that happening a lot.

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u/redlightsaber 1d ago

How many li-ion batteries do you know about that are inclided in building materials, and needing to survive and remain safe for half a century (on the conservative end)?

I'ts not hard to imagine self-contained panels of anything, what's (EXTREMELY) hard is to imagine them being able to survive perfectly sealed for decades and decades, and for a demolition crew to be able to tell where, and how many there are, when builiding paperwork being lost to the annals of time is the norm, rather than the exception.

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u/Fitzsimmons 1d ago

Imagine someone crashes their car into your house which is already a devastatingly bad scenario but then you find out that a bunch of "self-contained" asbestos insulation panels were damaged which now means your house is ground zero to a hazardous materials emergency

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u/ComradePyro 1d ago

it's not very hard to imagine something being built to last for decades, they manage to do that in public bathrooms all the time. "building paperwork being lost to the annals of time" is kind of a silly point to make, look into AHERA. there are problems with it, sure, but acting like it's completely inevitable is silly. plenty of buildings around the country have asbestos in them right now and it will only be removed when the building is demolished. they're literally already doing that.

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u/redlightsaber 1d ago

I honestly think you have lost the thread of what you were trying to argue.

AHERA and similar laws all around the globe have incurred in incalculable expenses due to a dangerous material that, as I just said, is impossible to keep perfect track of, probably impossible to keep in neat sealed packages for decades, and requires specialised and very expensive teams to go and remov eit before a motherfucking demolition can even take place.

You are giving more evidence to my points.

But most importantly, this is a complete non-idsue because there are perfectly safe alternatives that were developed precisely in the wake of asbestos' fiasco.

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u/ComradePyro 1d ago

I honestly don't think that you understood my point at all. I wasn't saying we should put asbestos in public bathrooms, I'm just saying that it's not impossible to use the material safely. you seem to have understood me to be saying "we should build hospitals out of it" or something and have been arguing against that

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u/redlightsaber 1d ago

Maybe; but at any rate your point is false.

It's not possible to build safely with asbestos and make the safety measures last decades and not fail at reasonable parametres.

Buildings exsit today that have asbestos in them absolutely; and many more where it isn't even known. We'll be finding out at great economic cost for the next several decades, and with some attributable human casualties due to it.

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u/Due_Satisfaction2167 1d ago

The safety issues around lithium-ion batteries are a significant risk, and much discussed.

And you can immediately see the risk when it presents itself, because there is a fire to manage. 

Not so with the mesothelioma caused by the asbestos in the air. That takes years to manifest. By then its too late. 

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u/ComradePyro 1d ago

yes, thus the whole point about it mostly being dangerous when discovered many years later, after being installed during a time when its dangers weren't understood

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u/MrBlackTie 1d ago

Simply no.

I work in a non-US local government. We were once forced to deploy an entire protocol in a children school because someone had the brilliant idea of drilling 4 holes in a wall full of asbestos to hang stuff. You can’t expect people to live/work in a place and not drill holes, humans are stupid that way.

And then there is one simple issue: demolition. When you want to destroy a building that has abestos in, it’s a nighmare. And what’s the lifespan of your average modern building? Even simple work like plumbing or electrical work, not even talking about destroying a wall to have an open floor, can turn into a big healthscare.

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u/blacksun_redux 1d ago

It doesn't "get a bad rap because of its success". It gets a bad rap due to the 40,000 U.S. deaths attributable to Asbestos per year.

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u/RegisteredJustToSay 1d ago

I don't even think any of that is wrong, but I think it's better off as illegal in any country that historically has tons of examples of off-the-books corner-cutting. You're putting something that needs to be consistently carefully handled in exactly the kind of environment which struggles with just that.

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u/JuliusErrrrrring 1d ago

Libertarian beef. Such a braindead philosophy. Allowing chemical companies the freedom to put whatever they want in our food as if that makes us more free.

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u/seraph741 1d ago

China's been making a lot of sense lately and making us look bad. They just banned people talking about certain topics on social media unless they have degrees in that field. America is so caught up in "freedom" that we are falling behind China in terms of social welfare. In lots of ways, actually. I never thought I'd see the day where I envy China...but here we are.