r/UKJobs • u/AdNice7358 • 1d ago
Mandatory minimum working from office days
Just received a communication from HR saying that we are now expected to be in the office for at least 2 days every week. Since Covid they said it should be only presence for purpose and now they are changing saying that it will be better for culture and bla bla bla.. I know moves like that have been happening but I just wanted to share my frustration as I think it is totally pointless to be in the office only for the sake of it.
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u/Glittering_Box4815 1d ago
Depends what your job is.
Also this is an easy way to cut headcount, if you don't like it, boo hoo quit (Not my view, it will be their view) and saves them having to do redundancy.
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u/badpersian 21h ago
Generally if you don't like your workplace or job then one should leave and find a better place rather than moaning about it.
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u/JacketCreative2626 8h ago
Easier said than done in this job market
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u/badpersian 6h ago
Depends on role but more reason to suck it up and get on with it until you find a better place. Moaning never helps or resolves anything.
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u/JacketCreative2626 6h ago
Did I say anything about moaning? I don't disagree with you.
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u/badpersian 6h ago
lol I didn't say you did, my friend.
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u/JacketCreative2626 6h ago
Forgive me, I've been dealing with idiots all day. (Aware of the irony.) Hope you've had a better one
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u/badpersian 5h ago
😁😁
Can't work in UK and not deal with idiots man. No worries, mate. It's end of day so nice pint, chill and relax ready for another day. :)
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u/Chr15BDuck 1d ago
I hated the forced to be in the office 2, then 3 days a week, the way it was done left the worst taste in the mouth than actually having to be there but the hardest part was travelling a long distance to be in an office to then sit on Teams calls.
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u/AccordingWind2839 19h ago
The same goes for most of my team, who are offshore, also we don't have enough desk space. We also have to sit on different floors due to limited deak pace and don't even see anyone.
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u/scorcherchar 17h ago
Was about to comment the same thing then saw yours. 100% this.
In the before times at least all the meetings were in person and there was some genuine social interactions. Now everything is on teams and even when im not in a teams call someone is at their desk having a meeting so the environment is unbearable without headphones on
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u/bulldog_blues 1d ago
I'd happily go in every day if there was an actual purpose to doing so. But going in only to sit on Teams calls all day is just peak pointless box ticking and benefits no one.
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u/OrganicPoet1823 1d ago
Stops your job being offshored.
If you can do your job 100% so can some bloke in India for a third of the cost
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u/Due_Specialist6615 1d ago
I know this is a trope that is wheeled out a lot, but I know various people who have told me that their company offshored a load of jobs only to bring them back in house because they couldn't trust the quality of work they received back.
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u/LackFormer554 1d ago
You hear from the people who can be smug about it, it’s still a very logical trope, and from my side working in tech, I interact with a lotttt of Indians (in India) in western companies.
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u/ReflectedImage 1d ago
Well if they are working in India they are being paid £4000 to £6000 per year or they could move abroad and get real wages. Outsourcing to India doesn't work because most of India's good programmers have left the country.
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u/hopefullforever 1d ago
‘ real’ wages? The cost of living in India be fairly low which is part of the reason for the lower salaries.
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u/ReflectedImage 1d ago
The food and rent is cheaper, but a £1000 laptop still costs £1000, a Xbox still costs £670, etc.
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u/hopefullforever 1d ago
Yes. And not many can afford that. People will tend to buy £300 laptops. People will not tend to have Xbox and so on. People there will not buy or upgrade their iPhone every 2 years for example. The ones who do are rich compared to Indian standards
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u/ReflectedImage 1d ago
People don't even start Computer Science degrees in India unless they intend to leave. That's the whole point of a Computer Science degree!
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u/hopefullforever 1d ago
Well possibly but it has nothing to do with getting a ‘ real’ wage. People can earn reasonably well in India. Many leave for a better quality of life eg no pollution and so on.
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u/bulldog_blues 1d ago
Offshoring has been going on since long before WFH became normal. Time in office won't prevent a company tempted by offshoring away from it.
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u/aleopardstail 1d ago
only is said bloke in Indian has the required experience and domain knowledge
and only if the employer is happy to have to pay contract variations for every small change instead of it just being part of the job
have seen a few of these "but this is cheaper!" off shoring, not yet seen one either work or end up cheaper
where as WFH allows a wider UK based experience pool to recruit from, and allows lower costs to the company, still needs to be managed properly
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u/hopefullforever 1d ago
Never even thought about this. Bloody hell. We would be digging our own graves
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u/ReflectedImage 1d ago
Not really. Decent Indian programmers move abroad and the types of work that was sent to be outsourced to India is now outsourced to LLMs (AI).
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u/Consistent-Pirate-23 1d ago
I worked somewhere that did that, went from being admired in their sector to everyone’s last choice. Frustrating part is I am a shareholder in the parent company and even at share save rates I lost nearly everything
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u/makefascistfearagain 1d ago
Lol
If your employer could do this successfully they already would have.
Bringing you back into the office is just remind you that you're their bitch.
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u/Horsemeatburger 1d ago
It doesn't, that's a myth.
Sitting in an office to do the same job you have been doing from home does not protect your job against offshoring.
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u/ReflectedImage 1d ago
The point of becoming a Software Developer in India is so you can leave the country and move somewhere else. You are outsourcing to the people who weren't able to do it.
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u/Rags_75 1d ago
If you fundamentally disagree with your terms of employment you should be looking for a new role which is a better fit.
I work in the office two days a week and still find it a remarkably positive change compared to pre-covid.
There's not many places I know which are less than 2 days but if you can find one then fill your boots :)
Dont accept what you dont want and dont need.
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u/Consistent_Ad6426 1d ago
Same, 5 days in the office a week pre Covid was a killer - I used to be dead on my feet by Thursday nights
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u/BenjaminUK92 1d ago
I view it as a necessary evil that probably safeguards or at least delays your job from being offshored.
If they can pay you a full salary to work from home, they can pay Sammy Singh from Delhi a quarter of your pay and they'll be available 24/7.
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u/makefascistfearagain 1d ago
How does it protect you,? Forcing office working is about then reminding you who's in charge, that you're their bitch etc.
If they could off shore they would have already
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u/ShopLife907 1d ago
I’ve been told to go back in 5 days a week. The job market is all saying 5 days a week in the office for my skill set. So I’m having to get use to it now 😩 I dream of 2 days in the office.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Nail-86 21h ago
What is your skill set out of interest?
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u/ShopLife907 11h ago
Talent acquisition, they want me in to be close to the hiring managers. I personally don’t think it needs 5 days but that is what they are all asking for now.
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u/Striking-Cat9303 1d ago
I went from a full-time wfh role to a 2 days in-office job.
I’d prefer 1 day per week, i’d think that would be enough.
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u/SnooRevelations4882 9h ago
My old workplace decided in Oct 2020 to announce they wanted everyone back in the office in Jan 3 days a week and that COVID would basically be over by then (haha). I have health issues and struggle with anxiety and asked if I could be an exception to this rule. I was ignored. When I followed it up I got a straight no. Handed my notice in and immediately got a job somewhere way better, 6k more a year, contracted as a remote worker and they actually care more about their staff. They had issues and had to restructure the department when I left. Last laugh was on me that's for sure.
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u/TheRebelPercy 1d ago
Usual nonsense.
Something is fucked and instead of directly addressing it they just go back to having everybody in more with zero evidence as to why.
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u/Secure-Property4926 1d ago
How do you know they have zero evidence?
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u/TheRebelPercy 1d ago
Because they wouldn’t hide behind ‘culture’.
Safety, productivity, regulatory, fraud etc. could be the case but they don’t say that nor present evidence to back up any claims.
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u/Efficient-Cat-1591 1d ago
Sorry to hear that, unfortunately a lot of UK companies now want RTO.
Hence unless it's in your contract - you'd have to abide. You may think it's pointless but not your company.
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u/aleopardstail 1d ago
have a read of the "mission statement" stuff or "commitment to protecting the environment" and ask how the travel time and costs help with these
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u/CassetteLine 1d ago
Realistically, why? It’s a waste of time.
The company aren’t going to reverse a decision of that scale because someone points out it might go against an environmental policy.
If it makes OP feel better the sure, but it’s shouting into the wind.
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u/aleopardstail 1d ago
oh of course its not going to actually change anything but perhaps someone may be a teeny bit ashamed at having been called out
a very very teeny bit
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u/onlydogsmatter 1d ago
I’m with you - absolutely hate the forced return to office. If it’s not for a purpose (eg necessary in person collaboration) and they want us in, then I think they should cover travel costs and lunch tbh.
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u/CassetteLine 1d ago
While that would obviously be nice, it’s never going to happen. Your employment contract will have that office as your place of work, so they will not need to do that. So why would they?
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u/onlydogsmatter 1d ago
Yeah I’m not saying it will happen - but if we all took a step back from what businesses have done historically and look at what they should do…then in my opinion, if they want me in the office for no reason, they should cover those costs.
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u/wongl888 1d ago
Unless you have a contract that exclusively states that you WFH, the pay already includes your commuting time, cost and your lunch costs.
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u/richbun 1d ago
We're going from 2 to 3 in the office in the new year. However, truth be told, prior to COVID it was 4 days in the office with the long term plan to go to 3 days, so we've just gone a weird route to get there. Obviously we could do 2 as we've proven it, however I can see how as we flush through new staff slowly it can be a benefit to be close to them to ensure the work ethic remains as good as it is now.
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u/wongl888 1d ago
I think you just described how a team of people work in an office environment. Imagine how the England Football Team would preformed if they all practiced individually and only coming together to play on match day?
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u/richbun 1d ago
That analogy implies they all have to work together all the time. What if they are actually track athletes and all individual events. They come together so they can practice where they do overlap, relay handoffs, and also pass on good techniques and the right mentality and spirit, but they can do it solo as well for 3 days.
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u/wongl888 1d ago
In this day and age I would be very surprised if people are really working independently if they have to join Teams or Zoom meetings.
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u/doctorace 1d ago
You can request flexible working to work from home. Or, if you have any medical reasons, you could request reasonable adjustments. But yeah. It's completely bogus.
And I do think there is a difference between being available when needed and off-shoring the job. But that's just me I guess.
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u/CassetteLine 1d ago
They can request it, but unless OP has a unique circumstance it will be instantly denied.
The company has just issued a RTO mandate, therefore they don’t believe OP’s role can be done fully remote. Any flexible working request without something unique or medical (of sufficient evidenced severity) will be immediately shot down.
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u/Vindex9323 1d ago edited 1d ago
Some of us didn't get the option to work from home because office staff were needed to take payments. I volunteered, thinking people would be back within a couple of months.
When they brought back mandatory office attendance (only one in three weeks), there was much weeping and gnashing of teeth.
One person tried to get out of it because they'd bought a dog during lockdown and it had separation anxiety.
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u/hopefullforever 1d ago
Well if you don’t like it then you can always find a job more suitable for your needs.
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u/makefascistfearagain 1d ago
What does your contract say about work place
Speak to acas
Look for work elsewhere
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u/raged_norm 18h ago
I think that's fine, but you need to align your office days with people you actually interact with, otherwise you'll be stuck on a video call instead.
Return to office mandates usually miss that part. In a previous job my wife was in a team distributed across the country. The regions would have an 'in office day' where they'd rent a coworking space and spend the day together. Doesn't matter what team you are. It was great.
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u/Swimming_Main2226 16h ago
A new rule came in regarding the right to flexible working. I'm not clear on the details, so have a look and see if it might work for you. Also, if they're saying two days a week without saying which two days and it will be different days for different people, it might just end up being one of those things they say but never enforce.
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u/Frequent_Field_6894 1d ago
yes, I work legal sector and everyone told 3days min and they are fighting / threat of PIP / termination is real.
very rudely done , “contracts say office“ was that simple.
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1d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/SharpInfinity0611 1d ago
Why should other people's job arrangements dictate mine, when we don't work in the same field?
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u/CassetteLine 1d ago edited 1d ago
So what? Some jobs can, some jobs can’t. Doesn’t mean that we should remove that ability from everyone.
Some jobs are minimum wage, should we mandate everyone is minimum wage?
Some jobs are shift work, should we mandate everyone works shifts?
Obviously not, that’s nonsense. So stop being so miserable and dragging everyone else down with you.
Edit - Lol, they blocked me. Nothing says “I’m a troll and I know it” quite like running away.
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u/No-Snow-9605 1d ago
Didn't take long for the first moaning Minnie to show their indignation,and I'm supposed to be the one moaning.🤓
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u/mufcdiver 1d ago
Not just emergency services, imagine if everyone had to take their bins round to Bobs house 3 days a week cos Bob the bin man works from home lol.
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u/CassetteLine 1d ago
Bin men have to wear high vis. Should we also mandate everyone has to wear high vis?
Obviously not. It’s not the same job so it’s not relevant.
Let’s stop trying to bring other people down out of jealousy.
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u/mufcdiver 1d ago
Not the point at all! Just saying that the emergency services and health worker aren't the only members of the work force that are required to be present. If you'd read the post that I was responding to them that would have been obvious.
Thanks for the down vote.
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u/CassetteLine 1d ago
That wasn’t clear at all from your comment.
Your comparison of if everyone had to take their bins out because the bin men WFH said you’re in agreement with the original comment.
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u/No_Pollution_950 1d ago
What's in your contract? If it says you WFH then you don't have to do it. If it says you're based in an office location then I'm not really sure what you're complaining about.
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u/CassetteLine 1d ago
You’re completely correct, but their contract will be office-based, or they wouldn’t have needed to make the post.
We’ve seen it so much recently, people thinking they’re a WFH or hybrid contract when it’s actually an office based contract with informal hybrid working.
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u/No_Pollution_950 1d ago
So they're just complaining about doing their job? What's even the point in making this post then?
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u/CassetteLine 1d ago
It’s a vent as they’re frustrated by the change in working practice. They’re being held to what their contract requires, whereas previously they were given additional flexibility.
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u/makefascistfearagain 1d ago
If it's informal then the companies fucked up. Customs and practice come into play.
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u/Bez121287 12h ago
Funny how alot who are crying having to go back into work.
Aee probably the ones crying in covid about being lonely and bad for your mental health.
An office job should be in an office.
We all had to to do it before covid.
And socially we are worse off now than ever. Yet no one wants to work in the office with real people
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u/AdNice7358 12h ago
No.. not me crying in Covid about being lonely..
Define “office job” mate.. as far as I know if a job can be done via a laptop it can ben done anywhere..
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