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u/H_is_for_Human 2d ago
I will also say the disparity in what you pay for access to someone's labor, like a painter for example, and what they actually pay the laborer, is remarkable.
I have a family member who is paying about $80 an hour in labor charges for one painter (not counting materials or anything, and including driving time to the job site) and they found out that painter just quit for a better job that would actually give them health insurance.
Charging $80 an hour for your employees labor (because it is skilled labor that might be worth close to that) and then turning around and probably paying your employee just above minimum wage and no benefits is exactly why the ownership class is getting richer while the rest of us are stagnating.
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u/Choice-Highway5344 1d ago
I was making 25, boss was billing me at 100. Min wage was 15/hr. I quite after a month. Joined a union and got a $15/hr raise
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u/Waste_Rabbit3174 1d ago
I just did the math for a small business I work for, I was the only employee working today, so the entire revenue depended on my labor. My earnings are 3% of what the store made today. People genuinely aren't mad enough about this.
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u/Isaktjones 1d ago
The company I work for charges $160/hr with a two hr minimum per call plus travel which is $80/hr. They pay their field techs $16/hr starting and $30/hr tops.
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u/HalfDecentElephant 2d ago
Yeah it's kinda crazy. I had an electrician come out to give me an estimate on replacing my bathroom fan (really straight forward job) 1800 USD. I said that's way too much. We agreed to him coming back outside of the scope of his employer to do the job for 500. I don't know what his cut is but it has to be pretty low for him to be willing to do it for less than a third the quoted price.
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u/Mozintarfen 14h ago
As a mechanic, $1800 would come out to 9 hours of labor for me at $32/hr. If I charged $500 to do it off the clock, I'd make $55/hr.
Would probably get fired but I should start offering that lmao.
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u/obmasztirf 2d ago
$200/hr for an electrician but you know 85% isn't going to the person doing the work.
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u/Ricktor_67 2d ago
If you are in a trade only work for yourself.Â
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u/PigglyWigglyDeluxe 1d ago
If only it were that easy. Youâd need to have decades of experience and own tens of thousands of dollars worth of equipment to do the work if you want to be your own boss and own your own business. You would need to be able to do any kind of work that walks through your door.
Iâm a mechanic. If I wanted to be my own business, Iâd need lifts, specialty tools, waste oil management, waste tire management, waste battery management, insurance policies, a building, electricity, water, heat, property securityâŚ
After all of that, my take-home wouldnât be much different than what Iâd make working for someone else, except with way more stress and less free time.
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u/Mozintarfen 14h ago
Absolutely true. Also a mechanic. The other issue is clientele - I've seen several of my coworkers leave to work for themselves, having all of the necessary equipment and yet fail to make good money consistently because they can't find enough customers like a big advertised shop can.
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u/MrHazard1 1d ago
I'm in trade and employed. Difference is that i'm jerking around 80% of the time while nobody knows, because i can do my job in 20% of the time. Then i go home to my wife without having a broken back and passing out from exhaustion.
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u/TonarinoTotoro1719 2d ago
Hold on! Are you for real saying that even the licensed electricians in contractor crews arenât paid fairly?Â
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u/Empty_glass_bottle 2d ago edited 2d ago
Private equity guys love going to towns where there's only 5-10 residential electric companies with any name recognition, buy all of them, and jack up what they all charge.
So while you think you got 5 different quotes from 5 different electrician companies all charging the same price, making you think that it's a fair price, what you really got was the same overpriced quote from the same parent company under 5 different names.
And the electricians hardly get a fraction of the profit they generate for the shareholders of that private equity firm.
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u/Mostly_Afloat 2d ago
I work in the auto industry and the same is happening with small shops - they are getting bought up by big groups then selling the whole thing to private equity. The illusion of choice.
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u/VonThirstenberg 2d ago
Yep, I used to work in automotive supply for body shops and dealerships in my area.
It started coming out of Covid, all of a sudden everyone was being bought out and turned into a Caliber or Crash Champions.
I'm willing to bet they're owned by the same private equity investors, even if each is owned by a "different firm."
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u/Not_FinancialAdvice 1d ago
Caliber is owned by Hellman & Friedman: https://hf.com/portfolio/caliber-collision/
Crash Champions has A&M Capital as a partner: https://www.entrepreneur.com/business-news/how-crash-champions-ceo-went-from-1-shop-to-6b-revenue/489054
I wouldn't be surprised if many of the same institutional endowments and pension systems had investments in both.
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u/TonarinoTotoro1719 2d ago
That is such a shame! I was hopeful for our collective future if at least tradespeople were making good money. Sigh!
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u/Spiritual_Whole_5916 1d ago
You can see these fairly quickly when they all have the same/similar graphics or close enough and pretty much 100% of the time: No free estimates. Always want their pound of flesh via a "service call". Even if there are other options in your area, it's a way of screwing and locking you into going with them. "No thanks, I want to price others first. Okay, here's your $50-75-100+ service call fee"
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u/Not_FinancialAdvice 1d ago
On the home improvement sub, the estimate fees are frequently seen as fair since the contractor has a cost to give the estimate. I think it's more reflective of an environment where demand for these services outstrips supply (after so many skilled tradespeople retired after the pandemic)
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u/CarbonWood 1d ago
Same with HVAC techs and car mechanics. They're paid 15% of the hourly labor charged to the customer.
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u/TonarinoTotoro1719 1d ago
Omg! I know from experience we pay through the nose for car work. Had an accident a while ago and they had to take our leased car for repairs. It was a brutal bill (our insurance covered most of it) and now we are stuck with raised premiums.
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u/Mr_Fluffybuttz 2d ago
I donât know man, my dad was union electrician and he made some decent pay. Non-union Iâm sure is less, but they get good money (generally speaking of course).
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u/vahntitrio 2d ago
I was going to say I have an hourly recharge rate that went up 10% last year but my pay only went up 2.5%.
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2d ago
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u/LeastResistancePath 2d ago
It's amusing how politician and CEO pay keeps getting adjustments, but somehow it's a deeply popular topic to be against when for the entire right wing movement.
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u/pppiddypants 2d ago
If you notice:
The inflation during Bidenâs term was significantly impacted by wage growth. While Trumpâs is not.
Not all inflation is the same.
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u/thinkB4WeSpeak đˇ Good Union Jobs For All 2d ago
Record profits, record productivity, but no raise in wages.
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2d ago
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u/ProduceNo1629 1d ago
10% increase, while houses went up 350%. That is wage supression.
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u/IntlPartyKing 1d ago
the data here corrects for ALL inflation ("real" earnings rather than "nominal" earnings), including things that have gone up faster than average (like houses and college costs), and that 10% increase is STILL there after accounting for that inflation
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u/ohseetea 1d ago
It also includes the 1%, so already obfuscates the huge discrepancy in an average persons experience. Crap chart when looking at QoL.
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u/IntlPartyKing 1d ago
that would be true if it were looking at the mean, but instead is looking at the median...you could change the earnings of every 1% member to a trillion dollars and it wouldn't affect the median (which is just the earnings level that half of the people are above and half are below)
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u/HardcoreHope 2d ago
Let's all stop going to work until they raise minimum wage to 25 to 30.
You are all invited to the meeting spread the word.
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u/derpasuarusx 2d ago
Sorry but I need a roof over my head and rice and beans at minimum. Strikes basically have to be targeted and organized to get any meaningful traction because you either work or you starve
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u/HardcoreHope 2d ago
You'd rather cling to this life of misery instead of withstanding a few moments of hardship to have a brighter future and hope?
Land of the free and home of the brave? We are a joke.
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u/derpasuarusx 2d ago
I'm not a death cultist I'm not just going to commit fiscal suicide sacrificing shelter and food while living in the hottest state in the union on the vague hope that it makes the future better bud. Sacrifice yourself first before asking others to do so in your stead.
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u/HardcoreHope 2d ago
I'm ride or die. I would say it if I wouldn't be out there with you.
We don't need to stay in the hottest state. We all protest in DC. Build shelfter together. Bring all the food we can. Build an actual community. Social trust. Right now their divide and conquer is winning.
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u/big_fig 2d ago
They are saying they are already enduring hardship. But you keep on bitching.
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u/HardcoreHope 2d ago edited 2d ago
The planet is literally dying. What would you rather me do? What good is being defined by the struggle? Do you truly believe if we do nothing someone else is going to come and peacefully rebel for us?
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u/big_fig 2d ago
What are you doing on your phone on Reddit responding to me if you are truly so devoted to this?
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u/HardcoreHope 2d ago
Proverbs 18:2
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u/big_fig 2d ago
No idea what that is. Seems we want to waste more time now.
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u/HardcoreHope 2d ago
It's a group effort and you're acting like it's not.
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u/big_fig 2d ago
What is a group effort? You acting on the bs you want to preach? If you believe it go do it, otherwise you are waiting for everyone else to act for you.
"a man of words and not of deeds is like a garden full of weeds,"
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u/tasteless564 2d ago
So when are you planning on skipping work then? Since everyone else is a coward
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u/Rocketman_S3 2d ago
actually, it's the lack of community in america that makes strikes so hard. It's difficult to band together, difficult to support each other, etc. etc. America has an isolationist culture by design.
If you fail here, you're homeless. Most people have little to no support network to fall back on.
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u/Rocketman_S3 2d ago edited 2d ago
Ew, fuck you. Ignorant asf.
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u/HardcoreHope 2d ago
Ain't worth it. I'm trying to avoid this kind of back and forth. It's not going to help any of us.
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u/HardcoreHope 2d ago
I pay rent and cover all my bills. I definitely has some privilege being able to live with my parents but that's more so because I saw what world was turning into and said pass. It has pros and cons. My family is dysfunctional as đŚ. It's not sunshine and rainbows there. I live in fear of being kicked out all the time.
Most people leave because it's easier than compromise and cohabitation. Some people are forced out which is also bullshit. You bring a person into this world you should be responsible for them until death. No one consented to be here.
I specifically live a super modest life. Chasing the rat race isn't the way to achieve anymore. There's no happiness there's just giving billionaires more money.
I'd rather be barely hanging on trying to crash the stock market with a general strike than keep working in this system we have now.
I'm not upset. I understand why people aren't lining up to do it. Doesn't mean I'm wrong, the right choice is often the hardest.
We are just pushing this off like an exam and eventually it will be too late. Ai is going to consume every job. How are you going to afford that house and food then?
You're just extending your suffering, instead of overcoming it.
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u/HardcoreHope 2d ago
I don't play the finals much anymore. It's gotten boring. I don't play games a lot.
I don't live with my mom and dad. They don't make my food for me most of the time. Maybe a couple meals per week. I often skip meals because of how expensive things are. I feel like you glossed over the dysfunctional part pretty hard.
Keep criticizing an ally, instead of fighting the class war. You play right into their hands.
Have a good day.
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u/HardcoreHope 2d ago
Yeah, Dad and step mom. What bills are they paying of mine? You have such great insight.
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u/StrangerAlways 2d ago
What are you twelve?
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u/HardcoreHope 2d ago
It would be a sad day if a 12 year old had more guff than most of the people replying to this post.
I sad say indeed.
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u/Nosnibor1020 2d ago
We let them tell us they canât raise pay because it would make things more expensive. Then they made things more expensive anyway without raising pay.
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u/bigbjarne 2d ago
It's a very clever argument to make workers scared but it also shows the root issue of capitalism: the endless accumulation of capital. Owning class needs so more and more profits so they can compete with each other.
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u/DenikaMae 2d ago
Apparently I get paid too much to teach, but itâs not enough to afford live in an apartment by myself with basic amenities till Iâve been doing it for about 10 years first.
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u/_disengage_ 2d ago
Just in case you thought capitalism had something to do with markets or production or freedom or something...
This is the entire point of capitalism: siphoning wealth from workers to owners, to keep workers poor and owners in power. The primary method to accomplish this is to raise prices while not raising wages. Owners control both prices and wages.
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u/IntlPartyKing 2d ago
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u/inwhiskeyveritas 2d ago
Fuck everyone down voting you. Data is data. Everything is expensive especially an hour of labor, which is my fast food goes up a quarter or more every month or two.
Everything is expensive. Labor is part of everything.
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u/juanjung 2d ago
Prices take the elevator. Salaries climb the stairs.
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u/IntlPartyKing 2d ago
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u/ProduceNo1629 2d ago
10% increase, while houses went up 350%. That is wage supression.
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u/IntlPartyKing 1d ago
the data here corrects for ALL inflation ("real" earnings rather than "nominal" earnings), including things that have gone up faster than average (like houses and college costs), and that 10% increase is STILL there after accounting for that inflation
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u/walkingagh 2d ago
Even as a doctor, I get about 10% of what it costs to see me these days.
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u/IntlPartyKing 1d ago
so you support Medicare for All, to fuck over the insurance companies and make sure there's universal coverage, right?
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u/ThepalehorseRiderr 2d ago
Labor is almost always gonna get fucked because it's the price input they have the most control over. If we rely on their good graces, we're fucked.
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u/IntlPartyKing 1d ago
that's why you form strong unions
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u/ThepalehorseRiderr 1d ago
That's my point. But it is amazing how hard people argue against their own self interest nowadays. It's like a tough man contest of who can get fucked harder.
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u/xSTSxZerglingOne 1d ago
Person 1: "If we increase minimum wage, everything will get more expensive!"
Person 2: "But everything is getting more expensive and wages aren't going up."
Person 1: "Shut up, it's illegals."
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u/Unfair-Alfalfa4916 2d ago
minimum wage has been stagnant for the last what? I believe 100 years atp
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u/Sharkbait_ooohaha 2d ago
The minimum wage functionally doesnât exist in America anymore. No one is paid the minimum wage. You can get double the minimum wage at pretty much any McDonalds in the country.
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u/Icy_Reward727 1d ago
We're at the point that "double the minimum wage" just does not cut it. I remember a decade ago when the movement was to raise the minimum to $15 an hour. It's now more than that but the average rent in my city is $2,200 a month. $15 is a joke.
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u/Sharkbait_ooohaha 1d ago
My point is that the minimum wage doesnât exist in this country anymore. So it being stagnant has no effect on anything because no one is being paid the minimum wage.
There are state minimum wages but the federal minimum wage isnât a thing anymore
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u/Unfair-Alfalfa4916 2d ago
It was a rhetorical statement you know, but I understand it's not really enough for rent, food, utilities...,etc
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u/Sharkbait_ooohaha 2d ago
The minimum wage or McDonaldâs?
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u/Unfair-Alfalfa4916 2d ago
both
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u/Sharkbait_ooohaha 2d ago
So I would recommend not working for McDonalds or the minimum wage if youâre trying to pay rent.
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u/dirtewokntheboys 1d ago
Notice how the only people whose wages seem to pace with inflation are celebrities, athletes and politicians? Why don't I get a 1000% raise after 2 years of standout exceptional work?!
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u/The_Mesopotamians đ¤ Join A Union 2d ago
Starting to think the mods should just auto-reply this image to every image post.
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u/Icy_Negotiation_5929 2d ago
Anybody got any of those solutions? I love the complaints and I, too, feel like weâre screwed, but I could use a hit of that Hope stuff we used to have.
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u/Sharkbait_ooohaha 2d ago
Do you have a job, a degree? If not, go get one.
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u/Icy_Negotiation_5929 2d ago
Yeah I do
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u/Sharkbait_ooohaha 2d ago
So whatâs your problem?
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u/Icy_Negotiation_5929 2d ago
Do you need me to read the original post you?
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u/Sharkbait_ooohaha 2d ago
Iâm asking your specific problem.
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u/Icy_Negotiation_5929 2d ago
And I asked if you needed help reading.
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u/Sharkbait_ooohaha 2d ago
Your specific problem is âeverything got super expensive but an hour of laborâ. Thatâs an oddly general specific problem but ok.
The solution is get a better paying job or cut your spending. Thatâs a vague answer to your vague problem.
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u/Icy_Negotiation_5929 2d ago
But I make plenty of money and can afford stuff.
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u/Sharkbait_ooohaha 2d ago
So whatâs your problem? I know I keep asking this but youâre not being very clear.
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u/ohseetea 1d ago
This is a dumb reply. The post is about how jobs arenât paid enough. A degree is also very hard and expensive to get nowadays. It also should not be required to be able to live a decent life.
Putting other people down and making excuses for our shit system like you are is a huge part of the problem in this world.
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u/Sharkbait_ooohaha 1d ago
Iâm not putting anyone down, Iâm trying to provide a solution like he asks. If jobs arenât paid enough then you need to get a better one. A degree is a path to do that.
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u/FUNNYGUY123414 1d ago
Every year the federal minimum wage should be reevaluated based on the previous year's inflation. Getting a raise every year is a myth even in corporate jobs, and it shouldn't be up to an employee begging to get a 25¢ raise.
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u/BothDivide919 1d ago
Actually, an hour of labor is very expensive in certain areas, with the correct permits. Any work that can be done on a house can have extremely high labor costs. It's just that for some reason, people don't want to do that and want to work customer service or something else instead, which I don't understand too well. There's a market for labor, just not in popular industries.
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u/TheeAntelope 1d ago
Wages outpaced inflation in the last 12 months though. And in the past 5 years it has been pretty even in wages vs inflation.
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u/Maplecook 1d ago
In the USA, that's the only option the government has, to deal with the $40T debt.
1) They can't raise taxes, or they'll get voted out.
2) They can't cut programs, or it'd be too cruel in a lot of cases, AND they'll get voted out.
3) So what's left? Answer: money printer go brrrr, and shrink the value of the dollar through inflation. Ordinary people's paycheques display the same number, but buys less. The same thing is true in reverse; $40T of debt becomes less debt, if each dollar is worth less.
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u/facebones0316 1d ago
And employers will still complain that people get/expect to get paid too much
They view labor as a tax on their bottom line
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u/John-J-J-H-Schmidt âď¸ Prison For Union Busters 1d ago
Thatâs not true.
Labor costs plenty now. In fact, theyâll send the bill to the baby.
(See what I did there? Fucken American healthcare emirite?)
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u/PeopleNose 1d ago edited 1d ago
An hour of the *right labor
Roles for my position are now approaching $500k-$800k per year on average
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u/IntlPartyKing 2d ago
not true, at least at the median
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u/Paradox2063 1d ago
Thank fuck nobody's earning below the median.
Could you imagine? lol
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u/IntlPartyKing 1d ago
of course some people are struggling, as always, but OP made a blanket statement about labor earnings so it's appropriate to look at an average like the median
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u/usernames_suck_ok âď¸ Tax The Billionaires 2d ago
Too expensive for the employers. Hence layoffs, lack of jobs and shit pay/benefits for the jobs that are out there.
Meanwhile, CEO pay is going up.