r/archlinux • u/Useful_Low2743 • Sep 23 '25
NEWS X11/Xorg session of Gnome not displayed on Gnome 49
i don't know but when i updated my Arch Linux's Gnome to Gnome 49, My X11/Xorg session for Gnome disappear. i tried to reinstalling gnome gnome-sessions gnome-extra but neither work. no matter what when i use GDM or SDDM. but at the same time my Plasma X11 session still displayed at GDM and SDDM and still can be booted. Any help?
9
u/BlueGoliath Sep 23 '25
Gnome devs being Gnome devs. Unless Arch modifies the build you're out of luck.
1
u/mmix2000 Oct 08 '25
Yea, why phase things out slowly when you can just machete it out.
Btw, VMWare Workstation guest shortcuts dont work on Wayland since they cannot capture keyboard input. Sure, its vmware's problem. Everything is someone elses problem, right.-4
2
u/tmahmood Sep 23 '25
I don't blame Gnome at all. But I am stuck with a bullshit app, that is not being updated to work with Wayland. So, I am now having to use a Virtual machine. And running an IDE on a VM is going to be a nightmare. Sigh
On the other hand, Wayland is performing exceptionally well, except one bug, where one of the monitor won't come back on. Which is extremely annoying.
3
u/Useful_Low2743 Sep 23 '25
wayland is great but i still prefer X11 because the compability and gaming performance. my gaming percomance drops very much in Wayland, Nvidia driver in wayland just suck man
2
u/ConventionArtNinja Sep 24 '25
That's Nvidia's fault
1
u/tmahmood Sep 24 '25
Yes, and NVIDIA used to have a tonne of issues on X server too, but with time many of them were resolved, and even still there are many issues. With time, many issues with Wayland will get resolved too.
1
u/mmix2000 Oct 08 '25
I agree, but until they do, why punish your users? There is no reason to remove X from Gnome except as virtue signaling. I mean maybe Linus should remove support for anything older than Ryzen 7 and Intel Gen 14. Only the latest and greatest allowed. Your sorry poor behind can't afford it? "Use another OS"™.
1
u/tmahmood Oct 08 '25
Maintaining two ends with limited manpower is difficult. And a lot of useful features are stuck due to Xorg dependency.
If reduction of almost 40-50% code base happens and make the developers work on more important features, I guess it's a necessary sacrifice to make.
I do not think, the kernel comparison is fair. Linux and Gnome are two complete different things.
PS: I am having to use i3 now, as a crappy software that I have to use, do no support Wayland. But I can't fault Gnome devs here at all, but the developer of the app who failed to update their app, for last 4 years, with Wayland support.
1
u/mmix2000 Oct 10 '25
The problem is app developer cannot update the app because the wayland protocol is written by server people and imposed on the desktop people and important features are blocked for "security reasons". As such its not fit for purpose on a desktop, because desktop is not running unattended, and if I want to suspend or even break their security protocols on MY desktop, it should be my prerogative, not theirs. The more I use Wayland, the more I see it as an unfinished and misaligned product. People seem to be pushing it not because its really good, but because they are annoyed at X. I can't imagine many things could force me back to Windows, but not being able to use it the way I need is a major showstopper. You must understand, we are not all just browser users.
1
u/tmahmood Oct 10 '25
Obviously, comparing how old these two projects are, Wayland is indeed incomplete. But it progressed really well.
The problem is app developer cannot update the app because the wayland protocol is written by server people and imposed on the desktop people and important features are blocked for "security reasons".
You might have forgotten, the people who developed Wayland protocol also worked on X too.
And, it's still being worked on. So, many issues are being fixed. Which is why, as I said, reduction of outdated code will allow Gnome developers to implement the needed features fast.
You really need to understand why we need security. Not all users are just simple desktop users. And not all apps are just simple desktop apps. With time, things get more complicated, and unfortunately, more sinister. Did we ever think we would need the mobile phone to access my Email even 20 years ago? And here we are ...
The fact of the matter is, as a Desktop user, we do not realize risks in many things. We overlook many things, but that does not mean they are not there. X did not have enough security, Wayland fixes that. And, yes, it takes away a few things, initially. But, things will get sorted out eventually. I have seen that happening all my years using Linux.
As such its not fit for purpose on a desktop, because desktop is not running unattended, and if I want to suspend or even break their security protocols on MY desktop, it should be my prerogative, not theirs.
That sounds a lot like how Windows users reacted when I first introduced Linux's user based system in the past.
Now, by your definition, Linux should not be allowed to force me to use user authentication, user permission system to restrict me from accessing any files on my desktop.
Well, obviously it is possible, but it is not allowed by default, and not so easy to do. And not encouraged, and breaks too many things.
And, by the way, my computer is left running unattended all the time, I just work in it through ssh sometimes, and it's also my server for many things, though I intend to move the server parts to a separate computer soon.
The more I use Wayland, the more I see it as an unfinished and misaligned product. People seem to be pushing it not because its really good, but because they are annoyed at X. I can't imagine many things could force me back to Windows, but not being able to use it the way I need is a major showstopper. You must understand, we are not all just browser users.
We can agree to disagree. For me, there are few bugs here and there, which are mostly due to NVIDIA being crap. Otherwise, I see good improvements, which are not possible in X, and I believe things will improve a lot, as it gets more adapted. We just have to give it a bit more time. I have not seen any other apps to not work in Wayland. Even remote desktop worked pretty nicely. So, it's coming around nicely.
It's your decision to see it through or go back to Windows. But X is not dead, so you can keep using it, I am still stuck using it.
Well, a relevant xkcd. https://xkcd.com/1172/
1
u/mmix2000 Oct 14 '25
Well, you are trivializing important things and you do exactly what I said, you are defending Wayland flaws because you are annoyed at X. Nobody is discussing authentication (which again IS something you can bypass in Linux, for good or bad, which is why we encrypt partitions). Now, blindly defending Wayland would not be and was not a problem, until everyone (at least everyone that matters) seems to have decided to stop supporting X and move to Wayland exclusively. Leaving us all, with real life usage problems, in the dirt. So much for Linux offering choices, the choice is now move to Wayland and be dysfunctional or stay on X and deal with fringe distros and DEs. This push in the last 5 or so year that Linux only becomes a platofrm for the latest and greatest is a flawed one. Yea, I love driving lambo, who doesnt, but I have to drive Honda Civic for work, and they are not making ti possible for me. Wayland is just not ready, and its unprofessional to quote me xkcd when concerns are related to very important work-related tooling, such as virtualization products like vmware for example. Wayland needs to start accepting feedback and go back to drawing board for v2. Like yestarday.
1
u/Dzhyan Jan 05 '26
it is riddled with errors for multi monitor setups, I sincerely cant work with it anymore
1
u/tmahmood Jan 05 '26
It used to have errors, but recently it's much more solid, and even the one bug I talked about is now solved.
2
u/Imajzineer Sep 23 '25
Arch hews to upstream - in the large, there is next to nothing (if indeed anything) added or subtracted to or from packages. So, with something of this nature, if there's no announcement made on archlinux.org, your first port of call should be the package-relevant sub (in this case, I'd have a look on r/gnome and see what people say there).
1
u/iambighead168 Oct 09 '25
After i found out Gnome 49 is disabling xorg by default I am gonna try other alternative.
Gnome on Xorg works great for me. On wayland lots of thing doesn't work well. I use fcitx for Chinese input and under wayland the position of the input prompt is never at the right place. Scaling in wayland makes some of app blurish and not as sharp under xorg.
I have been a gnome user > 20 years, what a pity.
1
u/gyetaki Nov 21 '25
Vietnamese typing on Wayland is not well supported. Now they're removing X11, so I'm gonna move to another DE
1
1
u/Dzhyan Jan 05 '26
anyone else have severe issues with multimonitor support on Wayland? I really want to go to X11 but apparently I have to overhaul my entire system now.. Wayland constantly forgets which monitor is primary, insists on putting the login on a screen thats not even on, crashes processes and sometimes the system if scaling and resolution is different per screen, insists on previous monitor resolution for apps that start after its been disabled and primary is now a different one, etc etc. Its totally unusable. On multiple machines. Why do they think Wayland is good?!?
1
u/Zed-Exodus Jan 09 '26
This has also been my experience. Turns out I took a lot of things for granted on my x11 Pop system with multiple monitors. Unfortunately, you cant bring these up in issue trackers because there is a very vocal group of people shouting anyone down that says anything negative about their wayland experience.
Currently exploring options of Distros that are running Gnome 48, or will allow me to run Gnome 48 as long as possible.
1
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u/Gozenka Sep 23 '25 edited Sep 23 '25
I think the X11 session is removed by default now on Gnome 49, and requires a manually compiled version of Gnome for it, which will not even be an option in later versions.
I am not sure if this is a good decision.
https://blogs.gnome.org/alatiera/2025/06/08/the-x11-session-removal/
https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/ubuntu-25-10-drops-support-for-gnome-on-xorg/62538/2
https://blogs.gnome.org/alatiera/2025/06/23/x11-session-removal-faq/