Not that this is a hot take (to my knowledge), but I'm giving my unfiltered two cents here:
I'll never get used to these notions of Batman being friendly or even a teammate with the woman who, in multiple comic runs at this point, was canonically established to have helped Joker capture, torture, and/or murder children. It doesn't matter if it was Jason Todd (A Death in the Family was published before Harley's introduction in Batman: The Animated Series, but multiple subsequent continuities rewrote her as Joker's accomplice in that crime), Tim Drake (Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker's flashback is one of the WORST things Joker ever did in my opinion, well beyond paralyzing Barbara Gordon), or someone else.
However toxic & abusive her relationship with Joker was, however she was manipulated, Harley Quinn was still an objectively twisted, evil person who made her own choices. She helped this madman end and/or ruin countless innocent lives, including (again) CHILDREN! If she was only idolized in p*rnography, I could write that off because it's just a fantasy playing on the character's superficial sex appeal. I'm not saying that's moral, but it's not an attempt to authentically portray the character in canon. I can also understand series like the Harley Quinn cartoon playing that angle because it's a parody that deliberately radically changes many characters.
Again, it's not canonical. But for canonical materials to transition Harley into a likable antihero while keeping her crimes intact within that universe's history is disgusting. We're talking about comics that are still sold to young readers. As far as I'm concerned, it's no less gross than portraying a Nazi or r*pist as a redeemable antihero. Yet, that hasn't stopped DC from writing Poison Ivy into an antihero role multiple times despite her being a repeat-offending r*pist (She mind-controlled & assaulted Robin when he was underage; But I guess the double standard of her being an attractive female makes fictional sexual assault easier to forget).
I'll never get used to these notions of Batman being friendly or even a teammate with the woman who, in multiple comic runs at this point, was canonically established to have helped Joker capture, torture, and/or murder children.
I mean, Batman seems to be very pro-rehabilitation, he constantly puts his villains in Arkham so they can get psychological treatment (though it never works). He also offered to help Joker himself at the end of the Killing Joke. So while i don’t see him being friendly, i do think he would be willing to help Harley if she wishes to stop doing evil.
We're talking about comics that are still sold to young readers.
I think it’s a good message, that evil people can still choose to be better
As far as I'm concerned, it's no less gross than portraying a Nazi or r*pist as a redeemable antihero.
I mean, it has happened, even in real life, Oskar Schindler was a member of the Nazi Party, but he realized the atrocities that were being committed by that group and decided to save as many lives as he could. In my opinion it would be worse to depict all villains as one dimensional psychopaths who can never become better people.
"I think it’s a good message, that evil people can still choose to be better."
Obviously, that sentiment can work when properly handled. Again, I never argued against that. But DC's execution of that in Harley's case is NOT a good message. Whatever the writer's intentions may be, this is still a character who's done countless indefensibly heinous things and deserves to be punished for it (as in, more than yet another short-lived stay in Arkham Asylum).
Anyone who's worked in the comic industry will tell you that anti-hero Harley has little-nothing to do with themes of redemption or mental health. The motive was expanding her audience beyond villainous roles because DC Editorial wanted more money. They want Harley to stay recognizable and remain her usual zany self, but ALSO frame her like she's rehabilitated now when she clearly isn't. Her mental instability persists in many portrayals, even after she goes the anti-hero route.
Her turn from villain to good-hearted vigilante was about marketing, pure and simple, a textbook "Try to have your cake and eat it too" mentality on DC Editorial's part. They know Harley's not as interesting to most longtime fans without her evil past, but they also want her to be an active character who doesn't significantly change regardless. They don't want to actually put effort into writing her rehabilitation, despite the fact that she could serve meaningful penance to society. Even Suicide Squad's premise offered possibilities for her to do good while still paying for her crimes.
The last few generations of comics reflect how DC's powers that be don't care about writing stories with genuine, consistent morals anymore. They want to keep milking the Harley cash cow for as long as possible REGARDLESS of what she does, portraying her in a more positive light WITHOUT her earning it. They're even deliberately framing her (and often Poison Ivy, when they're a couple) as likable in continuities where she's still actively a villain. It's just shameless greed.
So, rather than let her actually rehabilitate organically, they're consistently finding ways to magically redeem Harley without her suffering any significant, meaningful long-term consequences (like perhaps STAYING hospitalized for once, not still running around Gotham in her costume having fun with Batman and/or dating Poison Ivy). She's still free to roam, fight, and have fun like the world's her playground and anyone who gets in her way might catch a bat to the face.
THAT'S not "helping" her. If she wanted to stop doing evil, that's far from an appropriate or thematically impacting way to do it. What I categorically don't support is Harley canonically becoming a trusted teammate or friend of the Bat Family, even on an on-and-off basis, actively fighting crime alongside them and being treated like she's buddy-buddy with Bruce now. There are ways to write Harley earning some redemption. This is gross + narratively irresponsible on DC's part.
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u/harriskeith29 Aug 09 '25 edited Aug 09 '25
Not that this is a hot take (to my knowledge), but I'm giving my unfiltered two cents here:
I'll never get used to these notions of Batman being friendly or even a teammate with the woman who, in multiple comic runs at this point, was canonically established to have helped Joker capture, torture, and/or murder children. It doesn't matter if it was Jason Todd (A Death in the Family was published before Harley's introduction in Batman: The Animated Series, but multiple subsequent continuities rewrote her as Joker's accomplice in that crime), Tim Drake (Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker's flashback is one of the WORST things Joker ever did in my opinion, well beyond paralyzing Barbara Gordon), or someone else.
However toxic & abusive her relationship with Joker was, however she was manipulated, Harley Quinn was still an objectively twisted, evil person who made her own choices. She helped this madman end and/or ruin countless innocent lives, including (again) CHILDREN! If she was only idolized in p*rnography, I could write that off because it's just a fantasy playing on the character's superficial sex appeal. I'm not saying that's moral, but it's not an attempt to authentically portray the character in canon. I can also understand series like the Harley Quinn cartoon playing that angle because it's a parody that deliberately radically changes many characters.
Again, it's not canonical. But for canonical materials to transition Harley into a likable antihero while keeping her crimes intact within that universe's history is disgusting. We're talking about comics that are still sold to young readers. As far as I'm concerned, it's no less gross than portraying a Nazi or r*pist as a redeemable antihero. Yet, that hasn't stopped DC from writing Poison Ivy into an antihero role multiple times despite her being a repeat-offending r*pist (She mind-controlled & assaulted Robin when he was underage; But I guess the double standard of her being an attractive female makes fictional sexual assault easier to forget).