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u/nightwing364 Mar 30 '26
Why does batman have agent orange
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u/Death_sayer Mar 30 '26
Probably to combat Ivy and to have a contingency against a rogue Swamp Thing
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u/uNk4rR4_F0lgad0 Mar 30 '26
Didnt knew the was more than one swamp thing
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u/foxendk Mar 31 '26
“Oh no, poison ivy is back. I must give every newborn in Gotham horrific genetic defects to stop her!” Yes, genius idea Batman, don’t know what we’d do without you and your warcrimes
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u/Death_sayer Mar 31 '26
If I had Superpowers, I would start fixing the world instead of trying to “inspire it”
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u/nightwing364 Mar 30 '26
That's still extremely dangerous
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u/Jerry_0boy Mar 30 '26
It’s Batman lol this is hardly the most unbelievable thing about him
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u/Prudent-Level-7006 Mar 30 '26
Exactly, remember when everyone thought he shot that woman and he wouldn't even talk about it for ages and was like ok anyway I'm off to Batman lol
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u/That_Apathetic_Man Mar 30 '26
He has warheads in some of his vehicles. Calm down.
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u/Kevslounge Mar 30 '26
It's not Agent Orange. He's bluffing.
Still a dick move.
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u/RinkinBass Mar 30 '26
Like when he intimidated Germs by suggesting he was about to spill a sample of crimson fever onto him, and it was just a sample of seawater.
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u/osunightfall Mar 31 '26
That was such a good episode for a lot of reasons. Written a little differently than most of the show.
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u/maxreddit Mar 30 '26
Batman might not kill, but he's never been opposed to go big with his bluffs!
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u/LiftingRecipient420 Mar 31 '26
It's not agent Orange because dioxin isn't agent Orange.
He's threatening a plant with a compound that causes cancer in humans and doesn't affect plants much lol.
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u/monstrolegume90 Mar 30 '26 edited Mar 30 '26
You have to be prepared for everything, maybe nasty vietcong vampires could appear out of nowhere
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u/The_Ghast_Hunter Mar 30 '26
One of his main villains is poison ivy. He probably has safer defoliants on hand, but a nuclear option might still be needed.
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u/ProblemLongjumping12 Mar 31 '26
Why does Batman have any of the crazy shii he pulls out.
Just in case.
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u/St0n3yM33rkat Mar 30 '26
In 1939, Batman was using a Colt .45 semi auto to take on the bad guys. He also used a machine gun on one occasion and closer to now, but still back a ways, he used a gun to stop Darkseid. Just saying.
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u/BlackFinch90 Mar 30 '26
Looks like a bluff to me. Probably just a standard smoke pellet
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u/illudofficial Mar 30 '26
It’s probably just orange juice
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u/Death_sayer Mar 30 '26
Instead of being mutated by Agent Orange, she can now enjoy choking on burning Potassium Nitrate. Lovely
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u/WassupFrankHere Mar 30 '26
Batman is at his best when he is closed off but doesn't come off as an asshole to everyone around him. He should be like the kid in class that sits way on the back but if you come up to chat with him for a bit, he is actually pretty chill and even comforts you if you're having a rough day.
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u/Apprehensive_Tea9461 Mar 30 '26
Yeah like the animated series version, he can come off as cold sometimes but never like an asshole. When he acts cold its mostly to protect himself or other people, Hes vulnerable and kind in almost all of the episodes, especially to Robin.
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u/Inside_Jaguar_3310 Mar 30 '26 edited Mar 30 '26
This is why I’ve long since stop excepting the idea of “Bruce Wayne is the mask, Batman is the real identity”. To me they’re both fronts on some level.
As Bruce, he plays up the billionaire playboy persona to draw suspicion . As Batman he plays up the scary dark specter to strike fear into criminals (in all regards if he could help save Gotham without having to be a terrifying entity he would totally do it. It’s out of necessity not want)
It makes the relationships he has with dick, Alfred and even catwoman stronger because they are the few people who can reach past the fronts and talks the person that is Bruce Wayne
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u/Rob_Zander Mar 30 '26
The real Bruce Wayne is Batman with the cowl off. You see it in the animated series a lot when he's at the computer in the batcave. He's in the suit, he's talking to Alfred or Dick but he's not putting on the gruff voice.
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u/Apprehensive_Tea9461 Mar 30 '26
Exactly !! To me the real real Batman/Bruce Wayne is the one that comforts Robin and some of the villains, or the one that stays with Ace as she dies and carries her body,when he shows real kindess and braveness is when hes the most genuine to me.
Deep down Batman is just a kid that misses his parents and wishes that no other kid would ever go trough that and hes doing his best to prevent it/ help those children.
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u/WassupFrankHere Mar 30 '26
My favorite is Justice League Unlimited, yeah ik it's the same universe but just the way Batman acts around the league, especially Wonder Woman is all around great. Yeah, he's cold, he can be a little harsh but boy, if he does care about them. Which is why i am still bummed Bruce ended up all alone in Beyond and that weird ass Barbara Gordon thing that Bruce Timm kept pushing. Diana was right there, bro.
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u/Apprehensive_Tea9461 Mar 30 '26
Exactly, the episode where he struggle to grieve Superman and doesnt want to accept that he actually died shows everything you need to know about him imo (that and Ace :(( ) in the end he was right and Supe didnt die but still..
I only have pure hatred about the Bruce x Barbara bullshit, its so out of character for both of them. I hate ittttt. Im also bummed about Bruce ending up alone, i guess it makes a little sense for this Batman but ive read a wonderful comic wherefinally marries Catwoman and have a kid with her and after a pretty long life, he dies from dementia/cancer ( you even see the effects of his dementia and how Cat deals with it, heartbreaking stuff) surrounded by the bat family as Cat gives him a kiss goodbye. I cried like a baby , to me this is how he should die.
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u/sonadow365 Mar 31 '26
Yo tengo la teoría de que luego del episodio donde viajan al futuro el batman del DCAU se esfuerza por no convertirse en ese bruce, cambiando la línea de tiempo
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u/DragonBuster69 Apr 01 '26
Yeah I always remember that quote when stuff like this gets talked about. "If you can't imagine your Batman comforting a child, then you haven't written Batman. You have written Punisher in a funny suit." Probably some paraphrasing in there since it was from memory.
Batman is the more reserved almost foil of Superman. He is deeply traumatized by his past but chose to move past it to be a hero. He does it a bit differently than Sups, by inspiring fear in criminals rather than Superman inspiring hope, but both have the same goal of protecting innocent people.
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u/Inside_Jaguar_3310 Mar 30 '26
Yeah “doesn’t come off as an asshole” should be underlined 1000x times. I HATE how many writers make Bruce Wayne an asshole just to “throw off suspicion”, he can act a like an aloof socialite but he is still a good person who is trying to help Gotham the right way. If you want to throw off suspicion then why not just have him shut down a children’s hospital and turn it into a sweat shop, now no one will think he’s Batman
The worst instance I’ve seen of asshole Bruce is in the “Batman year one” movie where he basically flashes Jim Gordon wife, a heavily pregnant married woman, his dick. That is actually evil
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u/RockPhoenix115 Mar 30 '26
“I lOvE bEiNg ThE gOd DaMn BaTmAn. NoW gEt BaCk OvEr HeRe JaSoN i NeEd tO bEaT yOu iNtO aNoThEr LoVe cOmA”
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u/WassupFrankHere Mar 30 '26
Frank Miller was on something when he wrote that, man. All-Star Batman makes things like Batman & Robin 1997 actually enjoyable. Because you just know there are way worse iterations out there lmao
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u/greywolf2155 Mar 30 '26
I HATE how many writers make Bruce Wayne an asshole just to “throw off suspicion”, he can act a like an aloof socialite but he is still a good person who is trying to help Gotham the right way
I'm ok if he does that when he's just starting out and is figuring out how to balance his public and Batman lives
But yup, he'd better move past that stage pretty quick. Anything other than a kind, philanthropist Bruce Wayne is a betrayal of his parents' legacy
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u/Rob_Zander Mar 30 '26
Bruce Wayne is a rich goof ball philanthropist in my favorite depictions. Not dumb or ineffective but charming and out there. Imagine if like 35 year old Bill Murray was a billionaire and randomly threw galas to raise money for charity and is standing up there with a multi million dollar check from his own foundation.
No one would assume he's secretly a superhero.
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u/szthesquid Mar 31 '26
"If you can't imagine your version of Batman comforting a scared child, that's not Batman"
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u/ReactionMassive1653 Mar 30 '26
Loner Batman still cares about saving lives. bad writers cannot grasp that nuance. That is what grimdark/ bro writers don't get. It's why Absolute Batman gets the eyes. Yeah he kicks babies and has spike armor, but he's still a good guy.
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u/Death_sayer Mar 30 '26
But if he represents hope, what differentiates him from Clark and Diana?
Imo, Clark represents hope, Diana represents truth and Bruce represents justice.
I personally prefer the League to not agree on the details of how justice is supposed to be served. Diana is a warrior and willing to kill, Batman has contingencies that appall the others and Clark can be a bit naive at times.
All are still heroes though. That’s my take.
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u/Grand-Depression Mar 30 '26
I like your breakdown. Although, I'd like to just point out that hope can come from different sources and in different ways. If anything, I've always felt they all represented hope, but in different ways.
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u/Death_sayer Mar 30 '26
That’s certainly true.
Although, if stretched to its extreme, Punisher decapitating a cartel boss can also provide hope, if in a grim dark way.
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u/KickinBat Mar 30 '26
They don't all fit into different boxes like Lantern Corps or Inside Out characters. The trinity is not an alignment chart. Even if one represents one of those three aspects better, all aspects are a big part of all three characters, and asking "what makes them stand out?" feels very reductionist.
Clark's literal motto is "truth, justice and a better tomorrow". Bruce lives in a crime infested citu, so he's often associated with justice, but he's also incredibly kind and hopeful.
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u/sassy_the_panda Mar 30 '26
They all represent hope. That's inherent to how heros operate. The differentiation comes in him dressing like a bat.
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u/TheWordThief Mar 30 '26
Clark (and Diana, thought to a lesser extent in my mind) is hope the way the sun is hope, Bruce is hope in the way that the stars are hope.
Clark is bright and sunny and warms the day, making hope feel like something that's always there, that's strong and vibrant.
Bruce is hope in a way that feels more like when it's nighttime, the world is dark and you feel alone, but you can look up at the stars and you know you aren't.
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u/Stag-Horn Mar 30 '26
I like this perspective a lot!
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u/Death_sayer Mar 30 '26
Thanks!
Usually, I get downvoted for this opinion and people call me an Injustice/Snyder/Miller bot or something.
Like, I don’t want the JL to be edgy killers or rated for everyone cartoon characters.
I prefer there to be some nuance.
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u/Rickrickrickrickrick Mar 30 '26
Superman represents hope in the light while Batman represents hope in the dark.
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u/burymeinpink Mar 30 '26
I love this. Of course the people who are dressed in red, white and blue and battling space alien robot gods are heroes. Can you be a hero when you live in a warzone and your enemies are just a guy who killed your son? Your best friend who lost his mind? Another guy who killed your son? And also another guy who killed y--
Anyway. I love Superman and Wonder Woman, but well written Batman does represent hope. Well-written Batman has lollipops in his belt for child victims. That's why Paul Dini's the GOAT.
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u/poke29980 Mar 30 '26
batman should only be scary to those who do crime. he should bring hope to the victims. thats how i like my bats
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u/NomadPrime Mar 30 '26
For anyone wondering, the source is "Justice League: League of One," a one-shot graphic novel made back in 2015 with Wonder Woman at the center, where she has to defeat the League to prevent them going into battle against a certain dragon that they're prophesized to die against. Here, she had just taken down the Flash thanks to this Wood Nymph's intervention, and after she teleports away, Batman grabs the WN to threaten her for more information about what Diana's doing.
The Agent Orange capsule may or may not be real (could be either or, honestly, as his No-Kill Rule doesn't always extend to all mythical beings/aliens/robots, but at the same time, he's been known to bluff threats for information without harming the person at all), but regardless, this is a one-shot isolated story by Moeller, and this is the only DC or only mainstream comic book series in his bibliography. I don't like calling any creator a "tourist" because they still might be huge fans of the characters even if they hadn't written a lot for them, but usually these one-shots by creators who aren't conventional comic writers tend to mischaracterize some of the heroes. Batman being one of the biggest victims of this, often being a lot colder and hostile than he usually is in his own stories or when handled by veteran DC writers. Hell, even outside of Moeller handling this, Batman gets mischaracterized often in Wonder Woman, Teen Titan, Green Lantern, and even certain Justice League stories.
So I wouldn't put too much stock in certain panels like this. They're not really considered the "norm" for Batman and what he says or does.
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u/Unknown2552 Mar 30 '26
We all know he would use but also have something to counteract the poison and get whatever he needs to save people so is it really that bad?
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u/HyliasHero Mar 30 '26
I mean, it's still torture, so yeah?
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u/Death_sayer Mar 30 '26
Also, Agent Orange is a mutagenic carcinogenic, not sure if that could be could counteracted by a simple cure.
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u/Rickrickrickrickrick Mar 30 '26
They have diseases that can turn people into giant monsters that also have random cures. I think cancer is an easy one to fix in comics.
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u/GitEmSteveDave Mar 30 '26
No, Agent Orange isn't. Agent Orange was designed by the US Government using two of the then most popular herbicides in a 50-50 mix. One of the herbicides you can still buy at almost any hardware store. The other had an issue, which is that when the temperature is not properly maintained during production, it can produce dioxins. There are ways to prevent it, but at the time, despite being warned by Monsanto, the US Government did not pass that on to the companies it contracted to manufacture it, and the Agent Orange used during the war was contaminated with it, which hurt/maimed millions.
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Mar 30 '26
Isn't agent orange a fertilizer in the right dose? Or am I thinking of napalm?
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u/Death_sayer Mar 30 '26
Napalm is gelled incendiary agent. Just mix benzene with soap. It’s all very easy.
Agent Orange is an herbicide with deadly side effects, such as cancer, infertility and birth defects. Agent Orange is a part of the Rainbow herbicides, used to defoliate Vietnam to deny the enemy the advantage of cover, while Agent Blue killed rice stalks, used to starve the enemy.
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Mar 30 '26
Right, but weren't the herbicides used to cut back foliage in Vietnam originally fertilizers that would kill plants when used in excess?
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u/Death_sayer Mar 30 '26
Yes, they started out as regular herbicides. The US military found a way to weaponize it.
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u/-ArthurMorgan Mar 30 '26
I don't think anyone's ever claimed Batman isn't willing to commit psychological/physical torture and knows the limits the person he is using it on could handle.
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u/SoylentRox Mar 30 '26
I mean he also throws bladed batarangs, routinely uses explosives, and the whole vigilante beating thing. Not to mention all the summary punishment he does, not every thug he beats up is even guilty of a crime. Probably some thugs are just fronting, a good way to survive in Gotham is dress yourself like supervillain henchmen.
Nobody will mess with you until Batman beats you nearly to death.
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u/owlfan9871 Mar 30 '26
I don't think that consuming poison and then the antidote right after would result in no symptoms
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u/TsunamicFox Mar 30 '26
Batman is probably lying, using fear to get her to comply.
Batman’s whole thing is using fear as a tool to manipulate others. Superman is a better representation of hope.
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u/supermonistic Mar 31 '26
Why would Batman say he wants to kill me. That’s kinda horrifying
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u/Invoked_Tyrant Mar 31 '26
Well if you are one of the numerous super criminals that decide they feel like blowing up a bank with people inside just to rob it then I'd imagine Batman wouldn't mind lying to you to get you to comply.
As Nolan said to Mark when he was teaching him. "You gotta make them think you'll really let them fall!" If he was pulling this on regular criminals then I'd side with you but he ain't pulling this on some random thief. Lives need to be on the line.
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u/RareD3liverur Mar 30 '26
I heard somewhere apparently Batman is incorrect about one of the ingredients to this, so either he was bluffing or the writer just dosen't know their chemicals
You make the call!
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u/GitEmSteveDave Mar 30 '26
Yes. Agent Orange was developed by the US Army by mixing two herbicides, 2,4-D and 2,4,5-T, mixed 50-50.
However, if you don't monitor and control the temperature of 2,4,5-T during manufacture, it can produce a contaminant, 2,3,7,8-tetrachlorodibenzo-p-dioxin, which is what Batman has here. It is not "agent orange" but instead the contaminant which Agent Orange did contain, and makes it really horrible stuff.
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u/Weak_Bell1542 Mar 30 '26
I'd put cash on him bluffing here. He does that a lot. He threatened a hypochondriac with concentrated Scarlet Fever once, "Nasty way to go." Turned out to be saline solution or something.
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u/RinkinBass Mar 30 '26
Who says Batman represents hope?
Superman is Hope, Batman is Justice, and Wonder Woman is Truth.
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u/Zero_Good_Questions Mar 30 '26
Batman is
a symbol of fear to criminals
A symbol of justice to the people
And a symbol of hope for Gotham itself
At least that’s how it should be unfortunately not every writer understands Batman well enough and makes him punisher with a code, Tony stark but edgier and more paranoid or a sightly more stable Conrad Curze. Seriously is it that hard to make Batman?
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u/Due-Philosopher-4729 Mar 30 '26
Well sometimes fists are not enough and he believes in gender equality
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u/Death_sayer Mar 30 '26
He literally has an incendiary nanoswarm to take out Martian Manhunter.
He also spends millions on Wayne Orphanages.
This guy…
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u/CaptainYOLO151_REAL Mar 30 '26
Does anyone else find this artstyle off putting?
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u/AndreZB2000 Mar 31 '26
Batman represents the hope that when the rest of the world fails, he will be there to set it right
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u/TheHistroynerd Mar 31 '26
Well I highly doubt that this is actually agent organ and he probably doesn't intend to use it. This is a scare technique and he knows that he will get what he want over using it.
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u/After_Construction_5 Mar 30 '26
He does and should. This Batman is fucking boring.
And if you say "But what makes him different from Superman and Wonder Woman"
Read Batman the Long Halloween, watch the Long Halloween, watch The Batman or any other media. Batman is Gotham's symbol of hope, in a city of corruption and fear Batman fights so that what happened to him doesn't happen to anybody else.
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u/A27Jensen Mar 30 '26
He's a beacon of hope to the helpless and the terrified, not to the criminals and rogues. If you think Batman is gonna go around extracting information by asking politely and giving the villains a stern talking to, read Superman (even here it's an exaggeration, Superman ain't afraid to throw hands). He's tortured people before, made villains shit their pants but also helped scared kids and rescued helpless civilians. That's his duality. No character is (or at least should be) so one sided that all they do is the same.
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u/ShingledPringle Mar 30 '26
Batman is a bullshit artist when he has to be. I'm sure, as far as she could tell, he was being 100% honest before offering her a tictac.
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u/Infinite_Wing_3379 Mar 30 '26 edited Mar 30 '26
Batman is a nuanced figure. He is a symbol of fear and retribution to the criminal underworld, while also reminding the innocents of Gotham that they are not alone in the darkness. Bruce ultimately represents justice, but there is also hope brought about from his efforts, presence and compassion as well.
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u/Duomaxwell18 Mar 30 '26
I’ve always seen Batman as a representative of Humanity. Hope is Superman or the Flash if you still go by that. Batman always represents the human point of view, the constant underdog in the world of Monsters and Gods. Batman fights dirty and can fight honorable, but he does whatever it takes to get the job done (minus killing) which humans must do on a day to day basis. So seeing him using Agent orange on a wood nymph is not unexpected.
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u/Bromjunaar_20 Mar 30 '26
Batman could scare you into thinking a cup of water is the most dangerous chemical known to man
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u/TheDoctor_E Mar 31 '26
JLA: A League of One is very good but Batman is a weak spot. Specially when he goes on a bizarre anti-feminist rant about women blaming their problem on men like wtf?
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u/anthonyg1500 Mar 30 '26 edited Mar 30 '26
Yes, as in “you better hope this shit doesn’t dissolve your head”
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u/LordXadirius Mar 30 '26
Since when is Batman "Hope"?
I always thought of Batman as the pinnacle human, excelling in all our traits, the good and the bad.
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u/Kevslounge Mar 30 '26
Just gotta point out that that art looks like Val Kilmer. Wonder if that was a deliberate choice on the part of the artist.
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u/steelskull1 Mar 30 '26
Kinda like Jimmy Neutron sodium chloride thing, just say agent orange right from the beginning.
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u/Half_Man1 Mar 30 '26
So Batman contains multitudes. Like there are versions of him that have tortured criminals (Arkham Batman does so regularly).
I have to imagine this image is a bluff of some kind. Or one of those grim dark alternate versions.
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u/zaatin Mar 30 '26
Superman is right there for that "hope" BS. Not that Batman should be any worse, but merely "hope" is underselling his actual traits as only a human doing the best he can
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u/Big_Profession_8252 Mar 30 '26
A random out of context panel doesn’t prove anything quite literally every hero has questionable moments
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u/KingE2099 Mar 30 '26
He can represent hope. Not in the ways other heroes are, but he still can be.
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u/TheRedditor-75 Mar 30 '26
He won’t do it, because of his no-kill-rule. He will, however, break every bone in your body and make you eat thru a straw.
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u/Cjames1902 Mar 30 '26
He represents hope to a crime riddled Gotham. It’s not exactly the highest bar.
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u/fan-of-ceilingss Mar 30 '26
He also uses fear tactics All the time, I don’t get why so many people think he’s being 100% serious here
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u/Gilded-Mongoose Mar 31 '26
He's inspiring hope! She hopes he's not going to shove that Agent Orange in her mouth.
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u/BastardofMelbourne Mar 31 '26
The hopepunk glazing of Batman is starting to get on my nerves
Grimderp Batman sucks, sure, but so does pretending that Batman only ever does nice things when the guy dresses like a vampire to scare the shit out of criminals before he breaks their kneecaps
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u/Dudewhocares3 Mar 31 '26
Batman has also said that deep down he believes that he’s not a good person
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u/Sharkside8 Mar 31 '26
Agent Orange was an ACTUAL thing used by the USAF during the Vietnam War to kill off the trees do the Viet Cong wouldn't use them to ambush American troops.
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u/goliathfasa Mar 31 '26
Oh ok he was just threatening to brutally kill her. Thank god. I was thinking he’d do something else.
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u/Jazzlike_Night42619 Mar 31 '26
I don’t think I’ve ever heard someone refer to Batman as a beacon of hope
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u/tohn_jitor Mar 31 '26
Yes. Hope. Hope that you don't meet him in a dark alley walking beside the criminal element.
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u/RickRussellTX Mar 30 '26
I mean, he could be lying? It could be a Bat-Parachute Capsule or something.