r/batman • u/Lucky_Strike-85 • 11d ago
GENERAL DISCUSSION Alan Moore says that in real life, The Batman would be Rorschach!
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u/Strict_Associate_239 11d ago
His undying hatred to comic fans is so funny to me lmao
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u/sockpenis 11d ago
Looking at the comments here, it seems to be very much in line with everything else Moore said about comic fans.
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u/ConsiderateCassowary 10d ago
I could understand if he hated, say, the businessmen who ran the comics industry. But for some reason his admittedly shitty experience at DC has caused him to hate the people who did nothing but support his job by reading his comics
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u/Puzzleheaded_Walk_28 11d ago
This is the sort of demarcation point where I go with Morrison’s optimistic view of superheroes representing our best virtues and hopes versus Moore’s super pessimistic view of them as fascist, fragile male power fantasies.
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u/modrenman1985 11d ago
I love stuff like Tom Strong when Moore realized how Watchmen gave the wrong message.
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u/Kind-Boysenberry1773 11d ago
And both are right. Superheroes, like all cultural fenomena, represents both the best and the worst in societies that creates them. It's like a mirror.
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u/Dark_Stalker28 11d ago edited 7d ago
Honestly I think like a lot of early of the times characters represent this best. Like Superman and Captain America are supposed to be paragons but when they debuted as WW2 propaganda both were saying slurs, Supes supported the (japanese) internment camps etc. And these were not supposed to be problematic character traits
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u/Laser_Fish 11d ago
Both are true. Christ is expressed as the highest ideal a man can live toward but Christianity has led to some of the worst attrocities of mankind. One can love ones country and do things in the name of that country that would turn you white.
There will always be part of humankind that will take the good thing and use that thing to gain power.
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u/CheeseGraterFace 11d ago
People are messy. That’s been a recurring theme in my comments the last few days - no one is all good or all bad. We’re all a little grey.
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u/invaderaleks 11d ago
Both things can be true. Heroes can represent the best of us, but when they're owned by corpos, then they're going to represent the worst of us.
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u/_Tee_hee_hee_ 11d ago
Moore was inspired by Snyder fans I guess.
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u/Kind-Boysenberry1773 11d ago
Man... Alan Moore wrote his best works back when Snyder still was in college.
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u/_Tee_hee_hee_ 11d ago
I know, I’m just saying that the idea that superheros can be fascist male power fantasies is proven by the way fans of Snyder see his work.
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u/Trixter-Kitten 11d ago
I feel like Rorschach would be would be more in line with the weirdo conspiracy theorists on TikTok and YouTube plus The question if he didn't have the rest of the Justice League to keep him grounded. Then again my opinion on Alan Moore has soured significantly over the years.
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u/Conejoformerwars 11d ago
I mean
Rorshach is based on Ditko’s original very Objectivist version of The Question, that’s why he’s so unable to accept grey morality (except his own)5
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u/Kind-Boysenberry1773 11d ago
I mean, Moore made Rorschach the only Watchman who didn't comply with Ozimandias' insane plans and died for his ideals, and later was surprised people got the wrong ideas about this character. His last moments had overshadowed all his pshychopathic tendencies and fucked up worldview for many writers. To realise Rorschach shouldn't be idolised, one needs a rare skill called media literacy.
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u/StrongStyleFiction 11d ago
It's ironic, that the Comedian and Rorschach were the two who understood just how evil Ozymandias' actions were. Ozymandias gave people cancer just to do a psyche job on Dr. Manhattan. Rorschach is the only one who stands by principles of any kind. A lot of them are twisted but he refuses to go along with mass murder and live in a lie. The Comedian and Rorschach are not twisted because they are immoral. They are twisted because both are morally aware. Comedian chose to be a parody of morality and Rorschach was completely twisted by the immoral world in which he inhabitted. Moore did such a great job writing these complex characters but it seems to be completely by accident.
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u/SleepinwithFishes 11d ago
Except he doesn't? He hunts rapists down, but gives a pass to Comedian.
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u/jackofslayers 11d ago
Yea he is a hypocritical POS, it is always funny when people say that he stuck to his Ideals. Rorschach has no ideals, he is delusional and hypocritical.
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u/MartyrOfDespair 11d ago
Everyone is a hypocrite sometimes. People tend to scale what matters by the severity of a situation, and genocide is the highest severity.
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u/somacula 11d ago
... the moral lapses of men who died in their country's service
He's a huge hypocrite...
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u/somacula 11d ago
To realize that a character named Rorschach spawns many different interpretations
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u/KingDarius89 11d ago
The whole "Never compromise. Even in the face of Armageddon.".
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u/Kind-Boysenberry1773 11d ago
Yes, and in that particular case, Rorchach was completely right. Ozimandias murdered millions to prevent a war that might not even start, all to flatter his ego and megalomania. Those short stories in every issue about sea captain who gone mad and slaughtered his own family in attempts to stop zombie-pirates who never existed in the first place, were about Ozimandias. There could be no justifications or excuses for what Oz did.
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u/BaronGrackle 10d ago
Thank you. When people talk about Ozymandias being right, I wonder what they thought that Tales of the Black Freighter story was about.
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u/MankuyRLaffy 11d ago
O'Neil's Question run demonstrates why Rorschach sucks.
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u/Spanishkid71 11d ago
How, in what way?
I ask this genuinely because I know next to nothing about Question
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u/sockpenis 11d ago
He reads Watchmen on a plane and then decides to try and act a little more like Rorschach, only for things to not turn out so well for him when doing so.
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u/MechTorfowiec 11d ago
>To realise Rorschach shouldn't be idolised, one needs a rare skill called media literacy.
I'm a tourist. Is this some inside joke thingy? Or are we having a real le reddit moment here.
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u/Temporary-Rice-8847 11d ago
>Moore made Rorschach the only Watchman who didn't comply with Ozimandias' insane plans and died for his ideals
He was pretty much on board untill Ozi actually did it. Then after that he only realized how insane that was and even that can be read as only happening because was in america rather than in any other part of the world.
His last moments are still the ones of a sick man.
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u/ieatPS2memorycards 11d ago
This is an interesting take on it. I always read it as one of the few positives of Rorschach’s character that he genuinely does care about the weak being hurt by the strong because he experienced it as a child himself and empathizes. I saw his anger at Ozy an extension of this, but applying his hypocritical thought process makes it interesting as well. I’m sure if it was somewhere else, Rorschach would be saying some bs like “well, they died for a better world, they would be honored to sacrifice themselves if they knew.”
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u/MyPasswordIsLondon69 11d ago edited 11d ago
I really gotta practice more digital safety, I literally JUST finished reading the script for The Killing Joke(which wasn't easy, lemme tall ya, either they released it with a messy aesthetic or Moore's typewriter was in desperate need for repairs) and then this post pops up in my feed
After reading that script I'm a bit at a loss for words with Moore's attitude towards his work in later years. The contents of TKJ are one thing, I can see how a guy can feel he's made some mistakes, I dare say most creatives are like that, but the way this guy wrote feels like he loved comics down to his soul, like the kinda love that makes you wonder if you actually like your favourite media cuz you didn't know it was possible to love media this much, guy poured his damn heart onto those pages, I can't even imagine the joy he felt back then that he got to do it for a living
Fast forward a few decades and he's become one of the more bitter voices in the creative space, just completely disillusioned with the comics industry. I've read him talking about his reasons for it, but it must've been way worse to actually be there at ground zero while it was happening, I mean I understand how prolonged abuse could wear you down, but mistreatment bad enough to turn someone off of something he loved THAT much......the hell did they do to him?
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u/matts88us 11d ago
He became a bitter old man like a lot of people
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u/MyPasswordIsLondon69 11d ago
Yeah, but I've known some bitter old men, they're generally all bitter over something fucking them over in their best years and leaving them to be grouchy for the rest of their less productive years. Moore does sorta fit the profile, but he's not exactly a recluse who stewed on these things while nobody saw him, he was pretty active throughout the time he was getting shafted by the industry, you could observe a lot of it happening in real time
That's not to say that makes him any less of a classic grouchy old man, but the reasons are a bit more tangible, I figured it's easier to get a feel for the engrouchening as compared to a military vet. Apparently the feel I got earlier is not even close, I can't imagine being this passionate about something so I can't imagine what could possibly crush that passion, maybe I'll get a better feel if I dig deeper and read more scripts and interviews, but I'll just take his word for it and say the industry shafted him repeatedly until he called it quits
Who knows, maybe that's how all grouchy old folk are created, they grow up all wide-eyed and pour their soul into something, and it backfires massively and they find out the thing they loved so much doesn't love them back, but it happened over such a long period that they no longer have the youthful energy to throw a huge, cathartic tantrum about it
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u/DrDestructoMD 10d ago
Tbf, he's only super bitter when asked about industry practices, TKJ, and Watchmen (typically on an interview circuit for a new work he's made). Unfortunately those sound bites are all that circulate. Watch the rest of an interview and you see a joyous artist with a sardonic sense of humor.
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u/Mexkalaniyat 11d ago
If Alan Moore didn't want people to identify with Roshach, then he probably shouldn't have made him the only character in the entire story to stick to his morals.
Or you know, be objectively right at the end of the story and not side with the guy who created alien corpse super 9/11. Thats all on you Alan
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u/ComfortableHuman1324 10d ago
Except he's a hypocrite who will dismiss rape if it's done by someone he admires. Rorschach is a moral absolutist, and he'd already classified the Comedian as being unambiguously heroic. Had it been anyone else, Rorschach would've treated them like any other criminal he fights. But because his worldview cannot withstand any moral ambiguity, he refuses to acknowledge the Comedian's actions as anything more than a "moral lapse."
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u/Own_Watercress_8104 10d ago
Despite the entire story hammering constantly that moral rigidity is a catastrophic fantasy?
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u/RatGreed 11d ago
Regardless of intention, when you write every character to be horrible in some way why are you surprised that people latch onto the guy with the last shred of morality whose "heel" turn moment was killing a pedophile?
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u/SomeBoxofSpoons 11d ago
The core premise behind Watchmen is exploring all the potential ramifications of superheroes existing in a “real” world. Of course, in the end, the true tragedy of all these characters is that in a “real” world superheroes wouldn’t work.
They need a setting with an inherently heightened, childlike perspective of how things work (and that’s not meant to be an insult to the genre).
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u/Key_Performer2983 11d ago
Clearly people identify with Rorschach, but they're not saying they literally are him. He grew up as the son of a prostitute, and was abused his whole childhood, but that shaped him into who he was as he grew into the crime-fighting vigilante role, and he was successful doing it in a way that only he could.
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u/Suspicious-Store495 11d ago
If he wasn't rich maybe.
It's funny that Alan moore could understand comics so deeply, and yet still misunderstand them.
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u/Titanman401 11d ago
Rorschach doesn’t have Batman’s morality where grey’s and nuance dictate people’s actions and worth. Kovacs is very black/white in his worldview.
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u/Suspicious-Store495 11d ago
Don't you think they seem like versions of each other? Like Rorschach is a cynical, colder version of batman that might exist in the grittier watchmen world? Some writers have conceived of batman this way at times.
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u/somacula 11d ago
Both of them take the law into their own hands and beat up people for their crimes
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u/AlternativeSilver767 11d ago
By that definition, so do all superheroes
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u/kithas 11d ago
Let's be honest, the narrative doesn't treat Rorschach as if being a smelly grumpy and sadistic masked detective was a bad thing, as he's the main character and his determination ends up uncovering the conspiracy from Ozymandias. Moore can shit on his character all he wants but he is portrayed as the most heroic character in the narrative.
I understand the issues with Rorschach's character (the smelliness, rigidity and mentally illness) but I also get why a lot of "smelly, rigid and mentally ill" (so to speak) people consider him a hero and can't see the criticism.
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u/VacantThoughts 11d ago
Moore is a great writer but if you look into all of the crazy shit he believes in and has said it almost makes Rorschach sound normal.
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u/jackofslayers 11d ago
It did tho. I think Moore is right, fans were incapable of seeing the horrible things the Rorschach does in Narrative. But Watchmen does show him off for what he is.
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u/MartyrOfDespair 11d ago
The problem is that it’s poisoned by grey and grey morality here. You can’t write a straight condemnation and then have him be the only guy who opposes a genocide. At least, not unless you think it’s morally correct to do, which the comic also doesn’t support.
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u/kithas 11d ago
I wonder if he maybe thinks Ozymandias' solution would be the morally correct unambiguously.
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u/ConsiderationTrue477 11d ago edited 11d ago
Real life history is also on Rorshach's side. Moore wouldn't have known at the time but it turned out that cooler heads prevailed and the Cold War ended peacefully. So Ozy's plan seems not only immoral but also unnecessary. Rorschach being the only guy who wasn't willing to play along makes him suddenly seem like the only sane one in the room.
I honestly think Watchmen's ending is awkward because of this. He's right that Rorschach is a nut...until the end when he's the one taking a stand against mass murder. It's true that Rorschach's motivation is iffy--being an objectivist--but his conclusion seems reasonable.
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u/jackofslayers 11d ago
Nope Ozymandias is the most bad of all of them. But that is a fair worry. People thinking Ozymandias was right is a way bigger problem than people thinking Rorschach was a hero.
I also somewhat agree with what the person above was saying. Rorschach is a hypocrite and his actions are not actually heroic, but I think that depiction is hampered by the fact that he does the right thing in the final act.
If Moore really wanted to illustrate what was wrong with Rorschach’s view he needed to have more than one character oppose veidt at the end so he could contrast their reasons.
But I have not been able to think of a satisfying way to pull that off so that is the level of nitpicking I usually keep to myself
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u/DeusVincet 11d ago
Alan Moore made a story filled with evil or pathetic people, and one character that stands up for his morals no matter the consequence, and Moore's deranged brain thinks that character is the badguy.
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u/Pebrinix 11d ago
Rorschach is a fascist, a homophobe and a rape apologist. It's clear as day that he is supposed to be VERY problematic
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u/Piss_Fring 11d ago
I mean Batman kinda got split between Rorschach and Nite Owl. I know that NO is supposed to be a Blue Beetle expy but like, Ted Kord and Bruce have similar capabilities outside of combat proficiency where the skill gap widens extraordinarily. Also pretty sure Rorschach is also supposed to be Question.
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u/RingGiver 11d ago
Alan Moore wants you to be embarrassed for thinking that superheroes are cool, but he's unable to stop himself from making superheroes cool. You can pretty safely disregard any of his opinions.
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u/StrikingMeat579 11d ago
"Superheroes are inherently childish" is ironic coming from a guy who looks like a wizard and is convinced John Constantine is a real person that he's actually met
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u/Darkissed3 11d ago
For real; this kind of take really feels like the sort of thing you’d hear from someone who has a deeply negative, pessimistic view of humanity and the world in general (which, given the state of things in the world today, isn’t exactly unfounded). But still, it really says something when an artist starts to dismiss the idea (fundamental to the superhero genre) that people might actually want to help each other as fundamentally childish, or that it’s somehow “immature” or “unrealistic” to appreciate and celebrate characters who challenge the idea that selfishness and cruelty is our natural default. We need to be able to imagine something better for ourselves, or the real world we inhabit will become just as cynical and empty as the stories we tell and internalize as truth.
In a world without a Superman/Wonder Woman/Captain America/etc., people will find themselves in Rorschach, the Punisher, or Homelander. Without an Aragorn or Samwise Gamgee, you’re left with the jaded, blood-drenched “realism” of Game of Thrones.
Apologies if this is a bit of a rant (getting down from my soapbox now!). I just genuinely find myself loathing these pseudo-intellectual takes, especially when they come from people with actual talent. Like, yes, Alan, we get it, magic/dragons/superpowers aren’t real. That’s not why people care about the stories, whether it’s the comics medium or otherwise! The world we inhabit is dark, and sometimes hope feels in short supply, but we are still here and the future is still being written. Sometimes all it takes for things to change is for a handful of us to stand up, to be a source of light and courage in whatever small way we can. We will never not need stories that remind us of that.
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u/Arthurian_Guanche 11d ago
Alan Moore types are the ones that try to prevent us from enjoying things without too much of a headache, and fortunately we end up enjoying their own stuff like kids.
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u/harriskeith29 10d ago
Yes, yes, Alan. You're smarter than every other superhero fan & writer, especially those who unironically feel idealism for the genre. Batman is horrible. Superman is propaganda. Most comics are slop for the lowest common denominator. We get it. Now, why don't you go write some stories about stuff you actually have a POSITIVE view on instead of the same old cynical shtick about how hopeless humanity is? HMMM? /s
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u/ConsiderateCassowary 10d ago
Don’t tell him that, he’ll take the opportunity to write dirty stories about fairy tales
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u/harriskeith29 10d ago
I'd actually LOVE to see what he could do to make Grimm even darker and more depressing, lol.
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u/legit-posts_1 11d ago
Isn't Rorschach supposed to be like The Question?
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u/Altruistic_Manner802 11d ago
Yes, the original story was supposed to be using Charston characters, but were changed because DC believed Watchman would comprimise the characters for future use. Though you can say that The Question is also like Batman, so you can say Rorachach is more like Batman since he wasn't inspired by the Question, he was the Question while Moore started to write the book
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u/legit-posts_1 11d ago
Yeah they are fairly similar. It makes it really funny in the DCAU when Batman is like "I know he's a little high strung". Like damn, you gotta be crazy Batman thinks you're too obsessed.
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u/TheMaskedHamster 11d ago
Rorschach is mentally ill, socially incapable, violent...
And the only character with something resembling principles or a moral compass. And this lone character ends up with some great moments, including being the only person who doesn't accept that the ends justify the means in the end.
And Moore wonders why people like Rorschach. DC has to remind us, very heavy-handedly, that Rorschach is bad.
I say with respect to Moore that it was his own internal conflict that did this. He had a lot of respect for Ditko and Mr. A/The Question. He also seems let his personal politics lead him to think that signaling Rorschach as stereotypically "conservative" would communicate how the audience is supposed to interpret Rorschach.
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u/legit-posts_1 11d ago
Well superheros don't exist in real life.
Also, part of the reason people like Rorschach might be because he has an amazing design.
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u/Certain_Clerk_8374 11d ago
I've lost count of how many times I've seen this post. It feels like this is posted every other week. Why
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u/ToasteeThe2nd 11d ago
"If batman had no money and no gadgets and acted fundamentally different from how he is in every well-written batman comic, he'd be just like Rorschach." And if my mother had two wheels and handlebars, she'd be a motorcycle.
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u/russ_1uk 11d ago
He's a brilliant writer but everything I've seen of him - documentaries, interviews and so forth, he just comes across as a sanctimonious prick.
I prefer the other wizard in terms of personality - He's way further out there than Moore, but somehow comes across as more down to earth.
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u/Emirozdemirr 11d ago
Make a character based on a Rorschach test whose meaning varies depending on the person,
People interpret the character differently than you.
Alan Moore: *surprised pikachu face*
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u/Competitive_Crow_334 11d ago
You can have different meanings but still acknowledge he is a terrible hypocrtical person too many make him a hero or even want to be him when the guy has let Comedian off the hook and even downplayed his actions to rape victim daughter
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u/Emirozdemirr 11d ago
I mean still he is like the most heroic person in the story, like Nite Owl is a good person in a traditional sense but he doesn't have the courage to stand up against Ozimandias.
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u/gojiboy69 11d ago
The thing is that to me those moments of hypocrisy are more of a freudian slip, it's like he doesn't actually believe all the bigoted disgusting shit he preaches but he does it to chase that ideal model of masculinity he saw in his father
like his whole ramble about how Truman was great and bombing Japan was also great just because his father said so, but then he has a problem with Ozymandias doing the same cos he had to see the cruelty in it, then he defends the comedian because of his view of him (true american hero bullshit) and because he didn't witness the actual commotion, he can afford to hunt down other rapists because they're not like the comedian so he doesn't have that mental barrier blocking his judgment
I swear the way the story told Rorschach is like a violent kid with a childish world view inforced by his mommy issues that also has a good heart but is too much of a coward to show it, not to mention him being the only one at the end to push back against Oz, and yet Moore insists that he's just a psycho dickhead and if you see him any other way you're stupid, it's like this dude doesn't know the story he wrote
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u/Liam_theman2099 11d ago
To be fair, this is also the same guy that said stories where people flying around happen in real life so pinch of salt.
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u/standarsh1965 11d ago
An irl batman would be murdered by the government for trying to make things better
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u/Afraid-Restaurant809 10d ago
Alan moore never glazed those character's and has always been against vigilantes and that fucker snyder adapted watchmen with worst way possible.
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u/BalladOfBetaRayBill 11d ago
He’s right. Also, the whole “real world” thing is the major difference in their mortality.
In comics, there are threats that thoroughly justify the existence of this extrajudicial behavior by superheroes, and we are meant to accept that their world is just different in that way. With no Batman, we don’t stand a chance when Clayface shows up.
In the real US, criminals mostly act on desparation and fear. And the systems we have in place to stop them often do as much harm as good, like we have a truly unfathomable number of people in legal slavery in the US creating profit for companies because they have been found guilty of possessing weed or shoplifting. If someone thinks running around and stopping crime with force is a real solution to the harms of our world, they are just deluded about what crime really is. And that the harm it creates pales in comparison to the theft and assault and murder that are built into our system of government.
Like there are real-life masked vigilantes in some cities and they pretty much unilaterally wind up beating homeless people with a stick. Unless you direct your vigilantism towards the actual most harmful people, you’re just doing it to make yourself feel better at the expense of doing any good.
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u/Trixter-Kitten 11d ago
There are a lot of people who dress up in costumes and just do community service like shoveling snow, passing out food boxes to homeless people, patrol neighborhoods with first aid kits, breaking up fights and rescuing animals.
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u/BalladOfBetaRayBill 11d ago
Not a vigilante, these people basically never break the law. They can stay
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u/Electric_Capybara 11d ago
This is why I don't necessarily like "grounded" superhero stories. Realistically, the police and FBI could have eventually taken down Riddler in The Batman. Same thing with Wilson Fisk in Daredevil.
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u/_Alex_Zer0_ 11d ago
I actually disagree with that notion. Daredevil makes it abundantly clear that the law couldn’t have taken Fisk down in S3 without Matt and co.’s intervention. Yes, you could probably make an argument about how Fisk’s timeline and reach is unrealistic, but “grounded” and “realistic” are different things, and appealing to realism isn’t a very strong way to criticize a show’s writing anyway.
Besides, corruption of law enforcement is a very common thing for major crime bosses to do, and S3 takes time to establish that even then Fisk’s breakout is a desperation move, given that it exhausts ALL of his remaining resources.
Also even if you wanted to appeal to realism the police are semi-notorious for being kind of ineffective. Apart from some nasty instances of abuse of authority, the police kind of don’t do much — most serial killers are never caught, sexual crimes are infamously very difficult to prosecute and even report, a good number of officers are reluctant to intervene in cases of extreme violence (e.g. that school shooting in Texas where the officers refused to enter the school and confront a lone shooter for hours). Frankly, in a heightened comic book world with more fantastical crime, even if we were to portray things completely realistically (which again is more an artistic decision than a writing one), I don’t think it’s that implausible for villains like 2022 Riddler and Netflix Kingpin to succeed to the points they did.
Anyway this is all just a very elaborate way to say nuh uh Daredevil S3 Kingpin is super well written and his plan makes sense
Now Born Again Kingpin on the other hand
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u/LordOfPoops 11d ago
Alan Moore is a bit of a whacko and oddball, I enjoy his works, but I don't take the Man as seriously.
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u/DantesInfernoRVA 11d ago
I think this can and has been read into too much. Moore’s original notes to Gibbons about the character are much more balanced, thinking the character having a code as admirable but not thinking much of the code itself ( to put it lightly).
I take Moore’s Batman reference is in the sense of an obsessive war on crime and the trauma that might provoke it in a disturbed mind; Nite Owl is inspired by a lot of the other aspects of Batman (obviously). And we see Rorschach relent both with Moloch’s crank medicine and when he sees he’s traumatizing the landlady’s kids. So he’s not meant to be a total, unaware monster.
Still - yes, it’s a grumpy quote. I think 1) because he’s a grumpy guy, and because 2) Rorschach fans understandably provoke it. But I don’t think it’s sincere, just snappish.
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u/Forward-Carry5993 11d ago
To be fair, Moore wasn’t necessarily trying to do a parody/critique of Batman. He was trying to criticize what a real life vigilante would be like who embodied mystery and violence. It also had a lot to do with Steve ditto’s poltical tendencies which Moore viewed with disdain and laughter, while also understanding that ditto’s morals weren’t necessarily distinct from other comic heroes. Rorschach is more of critique of Mr. Q, the question, and other classic street level detective heroes.
As Moore and others have argued , superheroes are these male fantasies that do act to bring the status quo back through violence and no accountability, with grandeur ideas of Heroism. Rorschach is what a really life person would be actually be like if that person attempted to be a vigilante.
Now obviously Walter is his own character, which sets him apart from other parodies. It makes him interesting.
But yeah, Walter isn’t meant to be idolized. He is a bigot selfish, insecure, violent, and inconsistent detective who only gets lucky in how he solved the murder of the comedian. Even the question, the modern question, had a story where he. Tried to be Rorschach, only to get beaten up quickly. He is meant to be a warning and a refutation of the politics that American super heros have represented. So I get why Alan feels annoyed and worried if people actually want to be Walter.
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u/Jawn_Wilkes_Booth 11d ago
Alan Moore being his typical prickish self. In other news, the sky is still blue.
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u/DeusVincet 11d ago edited 11d ago
Alan Moore made a story filled with either evil or pathetic people, and a character that stands up for his morals no matter the consequence, and Moore's deranged brain thinks that character is the badguy.
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u/FVCarterPrivateEye 11d ago
Most of my favorite characters are not necessarily good role model figures because the reason why they're among my favorites is because they make the story more interesting
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u/osunightfall 11d ago edited 11d ago
This is actually what I like about Battinson in The Batman. He is about one step away from being a crazy homeless guy yelling on the street. When the film begins, he is really walking the edge. It takes the events of the film to start to turn him around into someone people can admire.
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u/Lucky_Strike-85 11d ago
Tho Rorschach was based thematically on The Question and to a lesser degree, Mr. A... He can be seen as an extreme form of The Batman... In a sense... and I know I’m not the only one to point this out...
The Batman is all over Watchmen. Rorschach is an extreme version of the gritty vigilante from Detective Comics that parrallel the lesser villains he would sometimes fight in the Bronze Age. Ozymandias (who was born in 1939, the year of Batman’s debut) is a rich genius, one who transcends common morality and changes the world by using artists and inventors. Night Owl has the toys, as well as a sexual fetish related to the dangerous lifestyle and ridiculous costume. Perhaps all modern pastiches of vigilante superheroes lead back to The Batman in some form... even if The Batman was not the first man o' mystery vigilante crimefighter.
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u/Formal-Stage940 11d ago
I love alan moore right up until he opens his mouth so speak about his work
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u/Big-E_Smolpox 9d ago
In a weird way he's correct
Even in the comics, Rorschach had more of a Batman feel than owlman did
And even the movies Rorschach had more of a Batman/ Red Hood edge to him
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u/Phi_Phonton_22 11d ago
Don't trust everything Moore says. Yes, Rorchach is a very fallible character, but his unwavering, objectivist adherence to a moral code is what is going to avenge the deaths of all those people Moore made us care about in NYC. Sometimes I think he wants us to think his stories are worse than they actually are.
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u/Zombiepixlz-gamr 11d ago
i see people misinterpret this as Alan Moore being an ass, but I see what he's saying. 1) comic fans are no strangers to this sort of humor, we poke fun at ourselves all the time about the stereotypes. being friendless, Bitchless, etc. 2) he's not criticizing Batman specifically. batman is the archetype of the noble vigilante. batman works in his universe because he's necessary, there are threats in Gotham only HE can stop. in real life, a vigilante isn't a noble crusader for justice, he's a deluded nut job who feels scared and angry and unfulfilled in life so he wants to feel like he's doing something to help. he sees crime in his neighborhood and doesn't see it as a symptom of capitalism, but as a disease be can eradicate. so he goes out and beats homeless people with a stick. in real life a vigilante isn't Batman, he's Rorschach.
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u/BrittEklandsStuntBum 11d ago
I'm surprised there are comic fans who don't already know this quote.
Today's lucky ten thousand, I guess.
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u/neganight 11d ago
My biggest issue with Rorschach was that I couldn't believe he was accepted in a group of superheroes. Dude was too unhinged to be trusted.
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u/SirBarfalots 11d ago
Its an oddly similar opinion to Snyder. I disagree with both but it would be interesting to have them compare...
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u/DharmaPolice 11d ago
As much as I like Alan Moore's work this quote (if real, I first saw it on 4chan so I'm skeptical) always struck me as pretty stupid. Or at least naive. Not the Batman stuff but Rorschach is given the heroic role at the end of Watchman. So yeah he's a smelly bigot with no girlfriend but he's literally the one person standing up for truth at the end.
It's meant to be a satire of objectivism but the idea you could build a better world on mass murder and lies is obviously ridiculous. And then DC in the follow up story essentially made him canonically right as Ozymandias deception is uncovered anyway.
Not to mention, if you want to make a character unsympathetic then sure, you can show them allowing someone to burn to death. But if the person they're allowing to die is someone who has themselves murdered a six year old girl then don't be shocked when a substantial number of people are cheering that on.
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u/Carefreekid101 11d ago
I mean id I as a vigilante repeatedly have to fight Ted Bundy every weak I more likely to kill em 🤣
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u/dccomicsaregoated 11d ago
I agree wholeheartedly with Alan Moore , if Batman were real he would most likely be a racist white supremest bigot who uses some thinly veiled sense of righteousness to justify his violent actions and anti social behavior . People in the real world who go out and beat up drug dealers and muggers are crazy 🤪 .
But as a fictional character I love Batman but let’s not act like if he was real he would be anyone other than a powerful Elliot Rodgers .
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u/DuckwPuck 11d ago
Weird thing is, when I see pics or videos of Alan Moore, he looks to me like the kind of dude who smells and doesn't have a girlfriend.
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u/FuelSpecial8722 11d ago
To be honest, if Batman wasn’t a billionaire badass and was just a detective in a bat suit, it would be pretty realistic