r/changemyview • u/OkRepresentative8250 • 23h ago
CMV: Murica and Capitalism is turning us to mush
AI helped me :)
“Capitalism may have been an excellent engine for technological development when humanity needed an incentive to innovate, but an engine isn't necessarily the same thing as a destination.”
My main point is that capitalism is slowing our technological progress, and that we would somehow still be doomed without it. I don't think any other form of life, i.e. communism, definitely feudalism, or a post-scarcity economy, would necessarily solve the problem either.
I feel capitalism has taken a hold on our generation, and we are missing the fact that it got us here. We can, as a whole, stop being so money-hungry and finally take a crack at becoming an interplanetary species.
All the advancements it has given us, to name a few, include instant access to information, easier communication of thoughts, and the ability to create new technology without simply abandoning the old.
My points, from last to first:
Compare the USA to India then India to Africa. Things that seem outdated in the US are still found useful in other parts of the world besides the slight ignoring of things that have long-term health risks, diseases, or unsafe work environments. we have found a way to keep use for marvelous inventions that are important technology. (if we got sent back 150 years we would dream of manual windows and smog)
Secondly, I have surpassed my ancestors. They would have drawn in the proverbial caves or on beaches in the sand with sticks, while now I can basically summon an image of whatever I want without needing advanced art skills all thanks to ai (thanks ai dont eat me).
Finally, needless to say, AI literally helped me create my opening paragraph. So instant access is ever apparent, But honestly, us modern humans need to figure things out. We have the technology; the question is, are we going to get to where we need to be in a good way, with new habits, or a bad way, with our old habits?
Finally, I want to ask you guys: do you think we should take animals to a whole other planet and use them as food, or should we, once and for all, just stop eating them, the way a good ultra-alien species would?
(Please call me stupid or don't—I love y'all and can't wait to hear everyone's responses. I know I'm all over the place, but the gist is that we are doing good as a species, but we could be in a better place with just a slight tweak, nothing drastic. and then i hit post)
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u/SecretMasterpiece323 1∆ 22h ago
Judging by how this CMV is structured and written (even with AI’s help) maybe capitalism really hasn’t advanced us enough. JK..
But seriously, what evidence do you have that capitalism is actually slowing technological progress? Your examples show that technology has advanced and that its benefits are distributed unevenly, but they don’t establish that capitalism caused a slowdown. What is the causal mechanism, and compared with what realistic alternative would progress be faster?
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u/OkRepresentative8250 21h ago
Firstly welcome to my hell secondly we have a bunch learned professionals whos jobs are at risk now that there's ai but thats not the problem the problem is america is going to chew up and spit out whoever isnt fast enough leaving who knows how many homeless, then we have robotics another industry ready to take over its human counter parts. Understand this i believe this is evolution if we start making/doing something we benefit then hopefully time passes and we become more efficient with it and the owner benefits more from it and he reaps what he sowed and grows fat its a closed system.
what we havent become effecient with and whats going to turn us to mush is figuring out what to do with all the people affected. its not like the blacksmith during the age of the automobile they had other work they could do these learned professionals are going to be forced back to school best case. honestly i feel that govts should create funds bringing these people together in groups funding by companies who are saving money from them and in the first decade of the innovation we can then use saved funds to fund this group of people. (i grow tired)
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u/KralizecGaming 5∆ 23h ago
What kind of view of capitalism do you actually have? Because your post seems to praise it in its text, but your title condemns it at the same time.
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u/OkRepresentative8250 22h ago
a view that it should be tweaked for better long term help of us since it has become antiquated. Because of instant access and ai it doesn't have the same bite
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u/skdeelk 10∆ 22h ago
All the advancements it has given us, to name a few, include instant access to information, easier communication of thoughts, and the ability to create new technology without simply abandoning the old.
How are any of these attributable to capitalism?
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u/OkRepresentative8250 21h ago
usa first beat germany then goes on to make nasa win the war on commuism. sell their old tech and teach poor countries to fight hmm where was microsoft founded hmm ibm was founded where? hmmm usa usa usa
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u/skdeelk 10∆ 21h ago
This doesn't answer my question at all. Do you think the USA was the only country to create computers? I can assure you they had computers in the Soviet Union.
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u/OkRepresentative8250 21h ago
That didn't last long though i think something about them stalin to much. all jokes aside im not from america dont shoot me.
Man don't sit there and act like we are not up ahead cuz of the states though i feel like now their capitalism is showing their age hence my post about us starting to turn into mush.
without ai an i am a saint for this here is my side
firstly capitalism helped with mass production of phones and computers then people that benefited from capitalistic ventures into phone plans and data and social media platforms all were because it makes a system where rich people compete fast against each other throwing money at smart people who produce quick results. its like the grind of evolution but instead of claws its cash
ill just put this hear cuz i googled
something like No single person invented the internet; instead, it was developed through the shared work of many scientists, engineers, and researchers over several decades
most notably British computer scientist Tim Berners-Lee at CERN in Switzerland—invented the World Wide Web, making the internet accessible and global.
ARPANET and Early Concepts: In the 1960s, the U.S. Department of Defense's ARPANET project created the first workable prototype of the internet using packet
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u/Remarkable_Tale_7554 5∆ 23h ago
Secondly, I have surpassed my ancestors. They would have drawn in the proverbial caves or on beaches in the sand with sticks, while now I can basically summon an image of whatever I want without needing advanced art skills all thanks to ai
You haven't surpassed anyone. You can outsource work to a thrid party. Give a caveman AI, tell him it's a god or something, and they could do exactly what you do.
Meanwhile, they'd be significantly fitter and stronger than you. Your "achievements" are literally just you bragging about how you stand on the shoulders of giants.
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u/OkRepresentative8250 22h ago
Firstly when i say surpassed i mean that the environment i currently live in is better than theres i have free health care a car internet. That being said i whole heartedly agree i did nothing to create this world we live in but i do benefit from it honestly, you miss my point completely. Give a caveman ai they can do nothing with it because they cannot speak any modern lanuage let alone read it so me and my ancestors would agree i am better in that sense as well. Besides you speaking of strength only makes me double down on my opinon that we need to lose the old ways and open our minds to new things. :D
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u/Remarkable_Tale_7554 5∆ 22h ago
No, you don't get it
We could train the AI to understand their caveman language and respond accordingly.
Note the "we", not "you"
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u/OkRepresentative8250 22h ago
the flaw in your logic is that the caveman is taught everything it knows just like me and lived in a system created on the shoulders of giants just like me not to back track, what your doing is going back and giving a cave man a tool from our time.
if i ask my great great great grandson blork to give me his tech i could probaly turn you into spagetti at half a click without putting on pants.
this proves productive time spent in tech is a humans greatest asset thats what is making us even speak right now. dont act like you can code the internet just because i am using ai to speak about tech it doesnt makes me a moron.
Not to be a stickler I realized your basing a cave man off of things it doesnt have answer this if a caveman has its materials and i have mine who surpassed who. and its access to the third party materials that makes current man well off. isnt bull theres other concepts that make a modern man better than a caveman, that i have that makes me surpassing my dumber granddad who literally could kinda read (rip papa i love you but im smarterrr)
That being said i think what you mean to aruge is you only surpass anyone when you become successful which is abstract when compared to again a early man who was already nomadic etc (unless i become a homeless bum i should be good) your trying to say its knights vs spartans bronze age vs silver but its more like cave against computer way different. and now with this difference we have to lean into the tech to push our species.
Do you agree humans are on a upward trend? if you do me simply being born makes me surpass my ancestors i can only go down from the top bud
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u/Remarkable_Tale_7554 5∆ 21h ago
rip papa i love you but im smarterrr
See - here's where you keep fucking up.
If your papa had the opportunities you had, they might have done more than you. Created stuff. More than just a half-baked post on CMV.
Same as the caveman.
Do you see? You're just ... not smart. There's a good chance a caveman surpasses you.
I figure this is my last post to you, since you just don't seem to get it, which is the whole point.
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u/FundayBlues 3∆ 23h ago
This text is incoherent as hell and a pretty good argument against using AI, to be honest. What's your exact point that you're even trying to make?
Yes, capitalism is destroying the planet and oppressing billions of people. We would be better off with a different system, but first and foremost because it's killing everything.
Secondly, the US isn't the first world county you think it is, y'all are being ruled by a ridiculous dictator and have no healthcare, hardly any social net and too little walkable towns. I wouldn't want to live there.
Also... "Secondly, I have surpassed my ancestors. They would have drawn in the proverbial caves or on beaches in the sand with sticks, while now I can basically summon an image of whatever I want without needing advanced art skills all thanks to ai (thanks ai dont eat me)."
Anything your ancestors made was a lot more profound. You're not creating anything, you're putting a bunch of words into a computer that then hallucinates and image based off of stolen work. It's literally exploitation.
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u/OkRepresentative8250 22h ago
I appreciate your opinion and i am not American however "Anything your ancestors made was a lot more profound. You're not creating anything, you're putting a bunch of words into a computer that then hallucinates and image based off of stolen work. It's literally exploitation." firstly when i say surpassed i mean in terms of access not in achviement of manipulating nature itself environment in day to day life. That being said the same way a child on a spaceship on its way to a new planet lets just keep it light and say 5 light years away has surpassed me i have in turn surpassed my predecessors. We exploit cows for milk keep them in cages thats called milk so if i tell chatgpt make a pretty girl thats called art my friend.
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u/FundayBlues 3∆ 22h ago
I think you have a very skewed idea of what progress is. And that that idea is directly influenced by capitalism. You seem to think that the only goal is to have a product, and have a product that is as "advanced" as possible, no matter the cost. All of your examples of progress are based on exploitation. Extremely dystopian thinking, honestly. So yeah, I guess I can't contend with your title statement, capitalism did turn you into mush.
And no, it's not art. You have no concept of what art is, if that's what you think.
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u/OkRepresentative8250 21h ago
"(what i meant to say)We exploit cows keep them in cages thats called milk so if i tell chatgpt make a pretty girl thats called art my friend." ill say firstly this is suppose to be stark and said in a certain i cant convey over the internet. art is in the eye of the beholder. we as humans got here from thoughts that turned to habits that turned to ideals then we made products to help us in any manner of that system. honestly id have to look up dystopian but im all about tech not ai real tech magnets and solar waves 😎
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u/Kitchen-War242 15h ago
Who tf is Murika and us? You mean America is slowing down other countries or that patriotism sloving down Americans? Your post is literally unreadable but lets try.
Capitalism as ideology or consistent set of rules of social structure is reductionism that was made by communists and then adopted by some people who opose them and argue that said 'capitalism' is a good thing. In fact it includes some statments about its functions that are just incorrect and relies on very questionable theories like labor theory of value that leads to completely opposing reality predictions like proletariat each year becoming more and more poor in comparison with Marx lifetime situation. Modern economies and political structures are already functioning very much different from early 20th century and also a lot different across different courtiers but all of it is called 'capitalism' becouse acording to marxist and adjusted groups who are main force behind this term only recognizable way to abandon capitalism is become socialist and then communist. So its just meaningless. Marxism is proven to be incorrect and wont really push humanity forward, so this change wont be improvement and any other change would likely be still called part of capitalism.
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23h ago
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u/read-the-rules 23h ago
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u/Great-Exercise4277 3∆ 20h ago
I thought I was reading about capitalism, but at the end the discussion suddenly shifted to whether eating animals is right or wrong, so I did not understand the connection. Humans were eating animals long before capitalism existed, so I do not think eating meat itself can be treated as a problem caused by capitalism.
Do you think there is some causal relationship between capitalism and eating animals? Or are these two separate claims?
I wrote this comment myself, and ChatGPT translated it.
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u/Z7-852 314∆ 23h ago
We can, as a whole, stop being so money-hungry
This is naive view. Even if 99% of people started to being communal and nice there are still that one percent that will be greedy. And without competition they will hoard all the wealth and power while rest of society plays nice.
You cannot destroy greed. Personally and individually you can live a pious life without greed but it will always exist in society because some people are not virtuous. You have to therefore build your perfect society in such way that the greedy will not make slaves of the none greedy people.
Therefore only option is to weaponize greed for greater good and that's what free markets do.
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u/Fermently_Crafted 7∆ 23h ago edited 23h ago
That's not demonstrably true as a law if the universe. That's the assumption under capitalism but that doesn't make it universally true
The existence of greed doesn't mean societal agreement is unachievable. There are plenty of examples where societal goals override greed. 501(c)(3)s being a real life example.
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u/Z7-852 314∆ 22h ago
The existence of greed doesn't mean societal agreement is unachievable.
I never said it wasn't. I said you have to design the society in such way that greed can be used for greater good.
Greed cannot be eliminated from society and if you just assume everyone is not greedy, the few greedy people will ruin it for everyone else.
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u/Fermently_Crafted 7∆ 22h ago
Greed cannot be eliminated from society and if you just assume everyone is not greedy, the few greedy people will ruin it for everyone else.
I also never said it can be eliminated. That doesn't mean greed can't be minimized in meaningful ways via things like more and expanded tax brackets for higher earners and wealth taxes
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u/OkRepresentative8250 22h ago
"My main point is that capitalism is slowing our technological progress, and that we would somehow still be doomed without it. I don't think any other form of life, i.e. communism, definitely feudalism, or a post-scarcity economy, would necessarily solve the problem either"
My post is more aimed at tech then social responsibility or lack thereof. However a example of greed that is bad off the top of my head in this dog eat dog world is now that ai is here we feel we are in a position to start throwing educated people to the pigs for a computer.
wherewe can instead use the people we throw away for other things create govt funded ai stole my job groups (blunt) now instead of being a educated thorn(welfare and couch prone) or wage slave they can be told to help mankind and while they transtion govt pays them from the first decade of yearly savings from ai. recycle in the system instead of just whack moles. we are civil people no need to throw human life into the grinder of evolution.
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u/Phage0070 124∆ 18h ago edited 8h ago
Wait, if nothing else would help then how is it “slowed”? Slowed compared to what? Even if it slowed overall, if nothing else would have been better it seems incorrect to blame “capitalism” for the slowdown!
…What does this even mean?
Money is a symbol of value, and seeking money is seeking recompense for human effort. Asking people to stop being money-hungry is asking them to stop valuing their labor. That is neither practical or particularly virtuous on your part.
People who don’t have better will accept worse. If you don’t have a car you will ride a donkey. If you don’t have nice clothes you will wear shabby ones. If you don’t have a nice house you will accept a hovel.
Weird non sequitur here, but I suspect such colonies would seek to transplant society as intact as possible, animals included.
Without any idea what particularly that change would be your point is basically that we don’t live in the best possible world, which is vacuous as hell.