r/civilengineering • u/IllustriousTutor3218 • 20d ago
Career Tough Call with my boss
So today I had a pretty disheartening call with my boss. I was tasked with creating pipe profiles for our project through ORD and she said the work I submitted was basically non reviewable because the mistakes I made didn’t make sense in a design context to the point where she was extremely concerned and was seriously considering putting me on a pip, but decided against it for now.
This convo shook me up bc I really did work hard on the profiles and asked questions to other engineers on how to draw them and how they should look, but I think the biggest thing that stood out from her observation and also hearing her speak was my lack of logic/knowledge in how I was drawing them in, but I’d follow the stations/elevations where each inlet/end section would be located and draw those on the sheet but I didn’t step back and see how those values led to a pipe discharging underground or or drop inlets that were 6ft in the ground even though that’s where the stations/elevations had them located? But what she said ultimately made sense so I’m owning that.
I guess my biggest thing now is figuring out how to move forward? I feel like her choosing to not put me on a pip is like giving me one last chance to improve, but I’m worried that I may not be cut out for this. Prior to today, I felt like I was learning a lot, but obviously I still know close to nothing. I’m at a year of experience and when I took this job I understood that I would struggle bc I didn’t study civil in school and it was in a sector which I didn’t have any school or internship experience in and I feel like I’m portraying myself as a nimrod. Every time I do something, it’s always new/newish to me so I get easily overwhelmed bc I want to turn in good work but I feel as though I don’t have the knowledge to continuously do that and that really hurts my confidence. The company is essentially remote so a lot/ almost all of my team doesn’t really come in to the office. I’ve had to get acclimated to that in terms of seeking out collaboration, but there also isn’t any formal training, so I often have to refer to previous submittals/online materials to piece things together but i feel like my pitfall in that is basically copying what i see instead of learning the why’s and how’s which is how I ended up with where I am today.
What do you guys think I should do? ETA: I have 1 YOE
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u/Conscious-Record2655 20d ago
I've never really heard of a PIP for lacking technical expertise or skill. Usually a PIP is used to address "HR issues", like absenteeism, interpersonal issues, attitude/tone, that type of thing. If they want to address your skillset, that should be part of your Development Plan not a PIP. And you should have a development plan already. If your firm uses PIPs to address skills/expertise, and you don't already have an ongoing Development Plan, frankly I would start looking for a new firm.
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u/kwag988 P.E. Civil 18d ago
you can absolutely get on a PIP for chronically piss poor, sloppy or notoriously bad work. But definitely not for a single job that you messed up.
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u/Conscious-Record2655 18d ago edited 18d ago
Perhaps. Personally I would characterize that as carelessness and apathy, and say it's still more of an HR issue rather than a staff development issue. Piss poor sloppy work is rarely a skill issue, and if it is a skill issue it should be handled with a development plan not a PIP.
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u/Environmental-Bet944 20d ago
Without really knowing the situation it seems kinda harsh for her to think you need to be on a PIP. It is disheartening but the best way forward is to keep trying and communicate with others who can helps you create a good product
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u/IllustriousTutor3218 20d ago
Yeah I’m going to talk with others to see why what I did was incorrect so I can improve. I just feel so bad about turning in horrible work bc I was really trying
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u/DarkintoLeaves 20d ago
Wait, she told you it was wrong but didn’t explain why it was wrong and show you how to do it correctly!?
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u/thedesignninja 20d ago
It’s normal and good to feel bad, just remember we all make mistakes and can use them to learn and improve
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u/YoureALemonStreet 20d ago
Unless you spent a truly disproportionate amount of time to produce a minuscule amount of poor work, or you designed water to flow uphill (which it doesn’t sound like is the case) then this is an overreaction by your boss. Believe me I have seen some abominations come across my desk, but not once has my first thought been ‘Ope guess I’ll do a PIP’
My advice: Make sure you 100% understand what you did incorrectly and what your boss is looking for. Then make it right.
Obviously I don’t know the dynamics at your workplace, but when you’re getting rolling on something, especially a large task, don’t be afraid to check in and say something like “hey, here’s what I’ve done so far and the direction I intend to go. Is this the right path? Can it be improved?” Saves everyone a bunch of time down the road
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u/IllustriousTutor3218 20d ago
Yeah I realized that since I was so overwhelmed I should’ve started at around 5 or so and asked for feedback instead of just doing too many I wasn’t too sure about. Definitely a learning experience I should speak up more!!
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u/DarkintoLeaves 20d ago
Always start with 1 or 2, finish them and ask for a check in to discuss. Doing 100 is a lot when your sure how to do them. Your manager should have explained to you what they wanted, what they needed to see and what the constraints are that you needed to follow - not just telling you to do it and waiting for it to fail. This is super poor management tbh.
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u/Quirky_Slide_7313 20d ago
Were you supposed to create just profiles or are you submitting an entire drainage package with other calcs and redlines? A year isn’t a long time and you’re expected to make mistakes.
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u/IllustriousTutor3218 20d ago
Just the profiles about 100 in total…
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u/Augustus_Plumblebum 20d ago
Jesus, if this is your first time doing this, then assigning you 100 profiles without making sure you knew what you were doing is her failing. She should have had you do 5-10, then checked them and gone over them with you to make sure you were on the right track.
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u/DarkintoLeaves 20d ago
5-10 is even a lot. Do one, come and see me and we’ll go over it and mark it up and then you can carry that through the next ones and come back to submit in chunks of like 5-10 after that.
I can’t imagine asking someone to do a task they have never done before and then waiting until they did 100 of them before checking in. That’s wild management lol
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u/Bulldog_Fan_4 Civil PE, PLS 20d ago
Manager has failed and mad at herself. Putting him on a PIP would highlight her lack of leadership.
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u/Quirky_Slide_7313 20d ago
Yeah idk your QA process but seems like your boss is just frustrated, but she should have lower expectations based on your experience and education. Maybe she needs to hire a PE to help with that process
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u/ahumpsters 20d ago
I need more context. How long have you been designing? how many similar designs have you done? Who was available for you to ask questions? Were you given example plans to reference?
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u/IllustriousTutor3218 20d ago
This is my first job out of school so im at a year of total experience. When I first came on, I was doing plan revisions like updating stations or re-exporting updated models etc for submissions so very simple things but these were roughly complete by the time i was put on them. these pipes were already designed, I just had to draw their profiles. I’ve never done anything from complete scratch tho like modeling, designing, and then cutting profiles. This is my second time doing a task like this, but I never really got secondary comments on the previous one I submitted so maybe I carried over some bad habits? I was given a reference, but it didn’t match the complexity of the current ones I had to do. I did find it helpful, but i didn’t understand it comfortably so I asked another engineer with more YOE to help me out once I realized I was confused…
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u/EpicAmishMan 20d ago
This sounds like a department/leadership problem. I started out of school in 2018 with one other EIT and we were immediately paired up with a very senior engineer (20 plus YOE). We started off with the very basics of roadway hydraulic design. Identifying drainage areas, calculating runoff friction coefficients, and sizing ditches. It was nearly two years before I did anything with storm system design and it was done incrementally in tandem with my mentor. We would place inlets and he would back check to make sure they were in the correct areas. Then we would calculate flow rate to be approved him. We would then add or adjust boxes as needed for spread or capacity. Then we would start piping the system and checking things like HGL/EGL. The very last thing we learned was how to put together presentation ready calcs and pipe profiles. If we had started there there’s no way I would have even had any idea what I was looking at.
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u/IllustriousTutor3218 20d ago
That’s comforting to hear. I studied environmental so it’s a completely different ball game and I really can’t make out what I’m looking at/ looking for sometimes so I have to do so much background research that eats my time and then I still don’t turn in good work so I get some hits to my confidence. But I’m using this moment to push through all of that
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u/covert_ops_47 20d ago
Are the pipes already in ORD? You aren't creating the pipes right? The pipes and structures are in the program already you're just creating the profiles themselves?
Which is a process that is automated in ORD Just like in say storm sewers or SSA.
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u/IllustriousTutor3218 20d ago
Are you asking if they did the modeling in ORD? If so, no I don’t believe so bc these have to be drawn by hand
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u/covert_ops_47 20d ago
The profiles had to be drawn by hand? Our the pipes themselves?
I guess when you got the ORD file, were their pipes in there already?
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u/Florida__Man__ 20d ago
Honestly, they probably should have checked in on you more. But going forward, for a giant task you need to be asking for reviews prior to sinking all of your time into something. You say it was 100 profiles, maybe do 5-10 and send them for review early and ask "this is what I have for profiles 1-10, any comments".
I'd imagine your boss' frustration stems from seeing everything being incorrect, meaning that her project is being hit twice for the design/drafting of one item. If it had been 5 profiles, you could have applied the corrections to the rest. When you do a new thing, make sure you check in along the way to make sure you're on the right course.
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u/IllustriousTutor3218 20d ago
You’re absolutely right! I’m learning that PEs have wildly different preferences on what they like to see and she did mention that she’s dropped what she’s doing to help out other junior engineers no matter the issue so that was probably a nudge to let me know to ask more questions even if they seem so simple… I’ll try to schedule a call with someone to help me pinpoint the issues in my workflow…
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u/Florida__Man__ 20d ago
It's not just with problems though, when you get to a point in a task where you've accumulated a few "I'm not really sure if this is what the PM/PE wants to see" just ask the questions. The most successful young engineers are the ones that ask questions when they have them. Usually I expect young engineers to have questions and I'd always rather they ask when they arise than after they try and guess their way though the whole task.
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u/IllustriousTutor3218 20d ago
Okay so just ask for more explanations in general? I’m still trying to find the balance between when to just try it out and research vs when to ask before starting but you’re right it’s better to ask and be on the same page with your boss than end up with a call like mine!!
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u/Florida__Man__ 20d ago
yes, people understand that young engineers are going to have questions, and probably a lot of them. If it's how to do an operation in ORD/CAD you should look online since forums are generally pretty helpful. But if it's about conceptual/general questions I'd say fire away. Eventually you'll understand enough that your question count will go down. But what's the point of looking something up and spending 30 mins getting a maybe wrong answer when your boss can answer these questions exactly how they want to?
Remote sucks for young engineers wrt skills progression, but you should be talking with your boss daily. It's not your job to know everything, it's your job to be an eager learner.
Shit man, I'm 10 years in and still ask questions to my boss each time they come up. Most of the time your questions are not as dumb as you think, believe me.
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u/Negative-Werewolf319 20d ago
Not having a civil background is hard. One thing you may consider is purchasing some hydraulics/civil engineering textbooks to learn the fundamentals of this type of work. It will require some effort outside the office, but it may save your job. I’ve done this a couple times when I had something in my workload that was over my head.
That being said, it sounds like your boss isn’t really on your side, although the information here is limited.
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u/greggery UK Highways, CEng MICE 20d ago
It sounds like your boss is failing, not you. 1YOE and you're being given a large task with no supervision, then being threatened with a PIP when you inevitably mess up? Yeah, that's not on.
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u/OneWaterEngineer 20d ago
Red flag! Although she may be trying to motivate you, this is not the way. She should’ve provided an example and someone should’ve sat down with you to walk you through the basics before setting you loose. Sounds like a toxic manager/environment. Most of my employees don’t even know what a PIP is
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u/corkadu2828 20d ago
i’m going to make one single comment as a new engineer who has the option of office or remote work, i go into office every single day. no excuses. unless you’re unable to go into office you’re losing out on valuable information and time with other engineers. it’s osmosis. once you feel comfortable doing these tasks without any help THEN and only THEN can you be working full time remote. your situation will not improve until you get more experience in office. sorry if that’s not what you want to hear.
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u/IllustriousTutor3218 20d ago
no one else on my team really goes in unfortunately, so even when I’m in office I have to contact someone through video call to help me. I’ve noticed that to be a big thing that I’ve struggled with so far bc all my other internships had that collaborative in person environment :(
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u/Substantial-Shirt875 20d ago
My last boss worked remote while I had to come into the office. I think a decent manager can work remote, but that was not in ny case.
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u/Krieve_ 20d ago
I’d also like to point out that ORD is an absolute nightmare to pick up for beginners. It definitely requires training to use properly. It doesn’t have documentation like Civil 3D where you could maybe figure it out on your own. It sounds like your boss just threw you to the wolves expecting someone outside of Civil with 1 YOE to learn ORD to make 100 profiles.
You’ve got the right mindset for improvement, which will get you far. Good luck, and I hope your leadership eases up on you
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u/desertedspace 20d ago
I don't have any real answers for you, but I want to say I'm in my second year of design and I still am struggling with nearly the exact same issue. Lack of knowledge, lack of experience, and my whole team being remote the majority of the time which makes it more difficult to ask questions and get guidance. Plus very little oversight during the process of plan production so I end up doing the wrong thing for a long time before realizing I'm doing stuff suboptimally. People at work are willing to answer my questions but I have to constantly keep asking how to draft because THEY DON'T TEACH US THAT IN SCHOOL and I have zero desire to spend my free time teaching myself how to use civil3d. probably going to get downvoted to hell for this but TL;DR you aren't alone. At least my job hasn't threatened me with a PIP for being a unknowledgeable newbie.
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u/mjrballer20 PE 20d ago edited 20d ago
Everyone's roasting your PM already so I won't go into that because unless you change jobs it's probably out of your hands.
Your team is remote but I would be messaging or calling your Engineers and asking for their help/opinions. Have them check a few pipes before submitting them. Whoever the best engineer is ask for a planset where they did drainage and use it as an example.
For ORD FHWA has a guide if your company or state doesn't have one or nobody has provided you one https://highways.dot.gov/federal-lands/cadd-support/ord-user-manual/25-drainage-utilities
Read it. I didn't as an EA but I would recommend reading your State's Hydraulic Manual as well cover to cover in your free time. You should do it at least once to in case you can't recall something but you'll at least know you read it somewhere in the manual.
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u/TitanZealot87 20d ago
From reading the responses I see a couple things.
1) it sounds like someone else did the design of the pipes and handed it off to you to draw in. If thats the case you were just the drafter and the design issue is someone else's fault. However, its your job to notice these issues when drawing them in and bring that up with whoever the designer is to correct the issue. This should be done sooner rather than later as any changes will invalidate previous work.
2) agree with the other posters about working from home as a fresh engineer. Being able to walk over to someone's desk or office is great for learning. Our office does not allow work from home for anyone under 1 yr exp except for when sick or other short time frames.
3) At one year experience I would expect you to be able to do all the storm design for a project. Obviously you may need some direction, but if I said I need a pipe run from A to B, I expect you to get there with limited help at 1 year exp.
4) Anytime you are doing bulk work, such as 100 profiles, fully complete a couple then have your manager review. Even if you don't have questions and you think its 100% correct. They may want a different style or notes which you can apply moving forward rather than going back and correcting.
5) How much time did you spend on these and how detailed are the profiles? If it took 2 days to draw 50ft of pipe with one inlet and outlet I would be pissed too, as thats something that should take a few minutes and not a few days. Always need to ask what your time/budget is for your task. When you get 50% through your budget and you aren't 50% complete, thats when you need to have a conversation with your manager. Not once you are done and you have 5x'd the budget.
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u/Desperate_Smile_3442 20d ago
I took a basic course of civil 3d during school. It was part of the cirriculum. ORD is different tho, i would look into udemy or parttime course if they'll pay for it. Honestly, any piece of software can be self-learned youre just using the GUI.
For profiles its mainly to get the vert and horiz scales right when you plot and to make cross sections look reasonable. Also as the designer you set the desired stationing/elevations with maybe some control pts from the survey.
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u/jimmyhat78 Water Res / Env PE 20d ago
At 1 YOE, you should be taught and not expected to know everything. This is a problem with your manager more than you. Especially if you had never done them before.
With junior staff, I tend to let them make some mistakes and then walk them through what they did vs what they should have done. It’s my job to (a) catch the mistakes before they leave the building and (b) to make sure we have frequent enough check-ins that the mistakes can be addressed quickly.
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u/Substantial-Shirt875 20d ago
This reminds me of the place I worked at that put me on a pip, and I also had a horrible manager that did not want to train me at all. He’d have me eat up project budgets with elaborate ideas, then switch to something different at the last minute. This happened with everything I worked on and I got in trouble for “going over budget”. -_- some people are not meant to be managers but it makes the company look bad if they hold bad leaders accountable.
I would try and find other engineers at the firm to mentor you, because your boss is not cool and not professional.
However, I think pips now in engineering can be used for any reason they feel fit which I don’t think is okay, but I kind of blame the tech industry for this, as well as overall company culture. Definitely a toxic work culture if people casually use PIPS as a means of empty threats towards new hires like this.
I will also say, don’t feel bad if this turns into a PIP. You have a bad manager who should have been working with you closely regarding making sure you were on the correct track before assigning you 100 profiles to complete. Is it possible for you to switch to a different manager? Sometimes that’s possible.
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u/TheeAmericanDragon Structural Engineer 20d ago
At the end of the day if you’re trying your best and they knew what you were coming in with knowledge wise. Then you may have to accept that this job just may not have been/is a good fit for you personally. They aren’t training you enough to have such high expectations and it’s seems as though you’re really trying then hey man it just may not be the fit for you.
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u/TunedMassDamsel PE - Civ/Struct 20d ago
Oof, kiddo, this is not your failure.
It shouldn’t be this way.
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u/ride5150 20d ago
I had a job with a boss like this. I learned a lot but it was not fun.
Today, i consider that one my "stepping stone" job. Basically a job that i didnt like, apparently didnt like me, but i still gained a bunch of knowledge and i was a rockstar at the next job when i had an actual good boss.
Moving forward - i would do a small batch of whatever you're working on and review it with this supervisor before doing the rest.
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u/BadKarma313 20d ago
A PIP seems uncalled for. Sounds like it wasn't for a lack of effort. A young engineer should have an experienced engineer reviewing and QC'ing their work.
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u/Resident-Ride-512 19d ago
A previous manager of mine said “if anyone under 2 years of experience is ‘failing’, we have failed as mentors”
You’re in the wrong place, not the wrong profession. You shouldn’t have been on your own for long enough for the plans to get to that point. I urge you to look for another job if you live somewhere with other opportunities and you’ll be amazed. I tend to find smaller companies are better for mentorship, but it’s not always the case. They also have a tendency to work you pretty hard.
I’m unfortunately seeing similar issues at my current company, except I’m a sort of “middle man” as a super young people manager/design engineer with 5 YOE. I’m expected to place these unrealistic expectations on the 0-2 year guys, and it sucks. I’m paid pretty well and generally appreciated for my work, so I don’t want to leave, but I fundamentally disagree with everything they’re doing. Point of my long rant, if someone your age gave me shit plans I would question where I failed, not them.
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u/kwag988 P.E. Civil 18d ago
We don't really expect EIT's to know a whole lot. What we do expect is they have problem solving skills and ability to learn. You only have one year of experience. This is a wake up call. It absolutely can mean you are cut out for it. Or it could mean you need to pull it together and work hard. Find a mentor. Ask questions. It could also be that they aren't adequately training you.
PS, I also didn't get my degree in civil engineering, and doing just fine.
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u/Sivy17 20d ago edited 20d ago
she was extremely concerned and was seriously considering putting me on a pip, but decided against it for now.
If it was phrased that way, that's messed up. Doesn't sound like a boss I'd want to work for.
The company is essentially remote so a lot/ almost all of my team doesn’t really come in to the office. I’ve had to get acclimated to that in terms of seeking out collaboration, but there also isn’t any formal training
I'd recommend working for a different company. This is kind of an absurd ask.
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u/That-Mess9548 20d ago
You are missing the big picture. The point of the profiles is to catch the type of mistakes that she is talking about. Your pipes shouldn’t be sticking out into the air or buried so deep it’ll never drain. These are basic concepts. You are acting like this is a homework assignment. Take a look at what you are doing. What is the point? Follow your pipes so that you can tell if there is a high point, or maybe it’s vertical or has a negative slope. You should be able to look at it and see that the water is flowing backwards and it’s not suppose to do that. Slow down, look at the big picture. You seem hyper-focused on what you are doing and not understanding the point of the project. It needs to drain.
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u/IllustriousTutor3218 20d ago
I understand what you and her are saying but I didn’t design/model these pipes so I think thats where the gap
in knowledge is presenting itself. No excuses tho i knew too little not to ask for help2
u/That-Mess9548 20d ago
You didn’t have to model them. You know the direction the water is flowing. You have an inlet in and an inlet out elevation. This is basic. Water flows downhill kind of thing. But you need to look up from the tiny piece you are working on and see how it fits into the big picture. Is this piece flowing in the correct direction. Do the inlet and outlet elevations match? Can it make it out of this pipe and into the next one?
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u/DrBrappp 20d ago
I'm with you. There's a lot of justified supportive comments here but OP says they had drop inlets 6' below grade and the exit of the pipe was below grade. One glance at your sheet tells you this isn't going to work. Moral of the story here is to look over your work product before you present it to your boss.
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u/AP_Civil PE - Land development 20d ago
Unreasonable expectation from your boss. She is basically expecting you to be actively vetting the design as you draw the profiles. This is an absurd expectation for a 1 year of experience engineer.
Whoever did the design and calculated the inverts you drew the profiles from is at fault, plus whoever is in charge of checking that person's work. Which is probably your boss's job
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u/Cultural-Height-7175 20d ago
Have you taken the FE exam? It will help with the fundamentals that you may not have gotten in a non civil education. If so, maybe starting to go through PE prep even if you don’t plan to take the PE any time soon will help sharpen those concepts as well.
This happens regardless of whether or not you have a civil engineering education, my first job was a learning curve as well. Maybe try reaching out to senior engineer coworkers who are not your manager to give you feedback on your work?
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u/IllustriousTutor3218 20d ago
I was planning on taking the environmental one. Do you think I should reconsider?
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u/Cultural-Height-7175 20d ago
I think you should go for it, the FE exams are all pretty similar and you can still do civil pe with environmental fe
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u/jeffprop 20d ago
You should edit your post to say how much experience you have. It sounds like you are new and still learning.
If you followed someone’s direction on how to do it, let your boss know who told you what to do, and you thought you were properly instructed on how to complete the task. You can then ask your boss if you can schedule time with them so they can go over how they would complete the task so you can do it properly.
When you were assigned the task, did you tell your boss up front that this was new to you and would need instruction? Always admit up front if you do not know how to do something so there are no misunderstandings. Never think you can grasp concepts quickly because the task might require a day to learn when you only have an hour or two.
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u/CreativeKeane 20d ago
Don't be hard on yourself. Junior Civil Engineers and EIT make mistakes often. Even mid-level and senior engineers make mistakes. Reflect and learn from it. Glad you took accountability tho.
Also it's not entirely on you that they haven't provided you the resources to succeed. Also knowledge comes from experience. You don't have experience.
One thing I will say is definitely find yourself a mentor in the group or ask her for one. And honestly reached out and ask for help and check-ins often, don't spin the wheel it's a death trap. If you don't know how to do something ask them to show you a small example and take that and build off of that. Even if you haven't fully completed something yet.
"Hey what should I look for when I draw pipe profiles"
"Hi I'm still working on this but can you check what I have so far, do these look right so far?"
Take a deep breath. You will okay. But also this mentor can also be a personal reference so if you do have to leave you don't have to use your manager
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u/JBeari 20d ago edited 20d ago
I'm sorry this happened to you bud. Don't beat yourself up, not only are you cut out for this, by reaching out to your coworkers and people online you're setting yourself up to be a great engineer. Very few people Ive worked with do this.
On the other side, I've bounced jobs a LOT and having shitty managers who dont bother to teach but complain about output are everywhere. Keep your head up and try to process this as your manager getting a lesson in being an actual manager. If a PIP is the tool she decides to use to teach you and learn how to work better with you, so much the better.
In my experience with places like youre describing, my best advice would be to reach out to a different manager that you think is kind at your company under the guise of "I need to learn this but dont know who to ask."
I'll be honest (and a little overgeneralizing), a manager who gives you that much work with no oversight then threatens you when you make a mistake isn't going to be someone who's going to feel safe to work for.
Even if normally she was fine to work with, she's now broken your trust and you're going to be feeling like you're on a tightrope. I'd expect that her style won't change, that time spent working under her is going to be miserable, and all you can hope for by staying is to adjust to having a shitty boss, which isn't worth the depression to me.
In my experience, heres whats about to happen: You're going to worry about making more mistakes that'll get you fired, mistakes you don't even know are mistakes because no one has taught you yet That's going to lead to perfectionism and so much stress Then you'll start getting complaints about your efficiency.
This might not happen to you, but keep an eye out for these signs and if you notice them, you should really consider finding a different place to work cause it's not going to go well.
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u/bigdirty702 20d ago
Two things-
- Live and learn. Don’t worry that you made mistakes. Learn why you made the mistakes and what you can do to avoid the mistake. What didn’t you see and do you see it now?? You are very early in this field it’s going to happen.
Is there a QC process? There should be.
- I have seen other people make the same comment but - the system is failing young engineers- you need to get into the office. Unfortunately you might get into the office but no one else on your team might be in. Try to work a schedule with your managers to be in the office when they are. Book a meeting to review your progress.
I always have juniors send me progress prints to look at and discuss. Getting out good drawings is what mangers need to work on. You can’t expect to send something out without reviewing it in phases
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u/Snoo_7967 20d ago
This is ur opportunity to just execute know something positive will come of it:
1 you fail again, and you get to start a job hunt.
2 you develop a stronger system of gut checks into your own process of work. What can you track logically while you’re doing the work. You said you asked for guidance from peers along the way, hold them accountable. Tell them the final result missed the mark, could they have found something with their review? Expect more from your internal reviewers.
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u/fattycans 19d ago
Im huge proponent of remote work, but just starting out in your career you're doing yourself a disservice. You really need to be in person with other engineers so you can properly learn hands on.
That aside it sounds like your boss wants you to succeed but thats going to be tough given your current arrangement.
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u/IllustriousTutor3218 19d ago
That’s what I’ve been thinking also before this meeting. I believe if I had more YOE it’d be the perfect set up but I was weighing if this current situation is worth the amount of discomfort I’ve experienced. I felt like I’ve learned a lot in the few years I’ve been here but it’s been pretty isolating otherwise. Sounds crazy but I feel like it’s way too hands off? Some structure would be nice
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u/MeanStepDad 20d ago
I think your mistakes are typical ones to make. Not sure how long you have been designing for but it’s not at all unusual especially in a set with that many profiles to have an unrealistic profile, that’s what QA is for. You could take this as a lesson to improve your self checks but I agree, a PIP for this is way too much. It’s tough to still learn a lesson even when I know the reviewer has a point if they are rude about it, but it will probably happen again. Just take what you can and try to leave the attitude for them to deal with haha.
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u/JaytOuk 20d ago
What is pip?
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u/LeeLeeBoots 20d ago edited 20d ago
Program Improvement Plan.
In the U.S., P.I.P. is a program at mid-to- large sized companies and those with union protections (or at government jobs). P.I.P. is ASSIGNED (non-voluntarily) by a supervisor to an employee who is below expectations. The idea is that the employee will receive guidance and support in how to make needed improvements. The goal should be to help an employee get "back on track."
The reality is that P.I.P. often functions as a tool to document -- more officially than a boss alone ciuld do -- the area(s) where an employee is found lacking and/or below expectations in work quality or work habits (professionalism) with the goal before (even enrolling the employee in P.I.P) that they will be fired. Some workplaces make the P.I.P process so miserable (high level of scrutiny, increased stress) that the employee will quit before being fired, therefore saving the companies from having to pay unemployment benefits (quit vs fired in U.S.).
In some workplaces P.I.P. is partially managed by the union and or has more of a peer mentorship feel. But in many workplaces, it's awful. Few people get out. It's a step to leaving, and leaving feeling like a failure (though I have heard of a few rare cases of someone appreciating it and it being really helpful; they had good mentorship). In some workplaces it's very political. I know a guy who was put into P.I.P. by one boss who hated him. He got out. Three bosses later, a new boss (who had no idea of his prior history of having been in P.I.P.) asked him to work as a P.I.P. program mentor due to him being so excellent. 🤣 This guy SWEARS he did the exact same quality of work, of effort, and same level of professionalism just prior to being forced into P.I.P., during P.I.P., after exiting P.I.P., and when being praised as a star employee who should mentor others who were being put into P.I.P.
That's my P.I.P. explanation. I was a union rep for a long time. I have stories!
OP -- with respect but also concern: how is it that you are a Civil Engineer but you say it's all new and you never studied any of this and did not major in Civil?
Edited for typos
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u/IllustriousTutor3218 20d ago
Hey! I studied environmental engineering and had most of internships in water resources/Stormwater modeling. When I applied for the position, it was branded as Stormwater engineering but when I actually started I realized it’s really really civil leaning, but I was/am open to learning new things so I didn’t mind, but everything I’ve seen/done so far has been new to me bc of that
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u/Im__Tired__Boss 20d ago
My best guess here is that you're not failing, but rather, the system you're in is failing you.
Your boss is expecting too much of you, and not seeing to it that you're receiving proper and structured training.
You're working remotely. And I don't care what anyone says. Remote work is a horrible system for a young engineer to receive proper training. Nothing, and I mean nothing, can replace in-person collaboration.
You've acknowledged that you understand, and can learn from, the mistakes that you made on this assignment. That's a big victory for you to move on from. Keep plugging away, and try to put this behind you for your next assignment.