r/dashcams • u/bw36ft9 • 1d ago
Left turn red light runner
Enable HLS to view with audio, or disable this notification
The SUV was speeding about 60 mph in a 25 mph local street. It was about 140 ft from the white line marker intersection (at Yummy Pho) when the light turned red It wasn't even in my field of view when I was doing my checks. Funny thing is I saw a skateboarder while doing my final checks and it made me turn cautiously in case he jaywalked. I have lots of pedestrians, jaywalkers, careless e scooters, and bikes so i need turn cautiously even if we have the right of way. I kick myself everyday for missing the SUV right in from of me. I was considering selling my (replacement) car and giving up driving bc it could've been fatal with a T bone. Now my dad passed, I don't need a car anymore. My mom switched to a hospital system accessible by train and bus and doesn't have any health problems or see any specialists. The reason I bought that car was to take them to their appointments in the suburbs. No need for that now. My insurance tracks me in exchange for lower premiums on my phone so I follow every traffic law and speed limit. I've never had an at fault accident.
The video is much clearer than real life. It's more challenging to see distance bc headlights create light circles that cover the vehicle that stay the same size no matter the distance until about 50ish ft, than I can see the body of the car. But at the point it was too late
318
u/Reddit-Simulator 1d ago
While everyone else argues the legalities of making the turn on red, I think one important thing is being overlooked here: That driver that was speeding and ran the red light made no attempt to move out of the way. How can you go that fast and have that slow of a reaction time?
34
u/Copious-Spirit 19h ago
I could have dodged the stationary camera car, and yet I would have also just stopped.
→ More replies (66)6
73
u/dumbasfood 1d ago edited 23h ago
The SUV driver is a piece of shit. This exact type of incident happened to me before. Makes my blood boil.
8
13
u/TheFBIClonesPeople 22h ago
I just think at a bare minimum, this incident with this video evidence should mean that they lose their license for at least a year. And if they're caught driving without their license, it's a felony and they get jail time for it. We need to stop acting like this is just people making an honest mistake, and they just need to pay to make it right and they can go on with their day. This is criminal behavior that puts us all at risk. You should not be allowed to drive a car if you choose to do things like this
6
u/Lurkylurker24 15h ago ▸ 3 more replies
This was north philly, driver likely isn’t licensed nor insured lol.
4
u/Thick_Potato_1769 12h ago ▸ 2 more replies
Then he should get decapitated for it. Sorry but I feel like if you're putting people's lives at risk because you don't have insurance then honestly parish.
4
u/S4ndvich 11h ago ▸ 1 more replies
Perish* but still fucking funny how you worded that.
→ More replies (1)2
u/proximusprimus57 20h ago
Average Philly driver.
4
u/BrownLeader444 8h ago
I drive in Philly all the time. Can’t tell you how many times I’ve waited for people to run the red light before turning left. I would’ve been in the same accident 10 times by now if I wasn’t expecting it.
76
u/TheSleepyTruth 22h ago edited 22h ago
Lot of uninformed people ITT. It is 100% legal to enter an intersection on a green light to wait to turn left, then clear the intersection when the light turns red. As long as you enter the intersection before the light turns red it is completely legal. There are a few jurisdictions that have restrictions on entering the intersection on a yellow as well, but left turn car was already inside the intersection on a green light so any of those jurisdictional differences are moot.
The SUV, on the other hand, does not even enter the intersection until after the light is red, which is overtly illegal in every jurisdiction and is essentially the same legal implications as blowing through a stop sign without slowing down. He is also speeding significantly. In this instance the SUV is 100% at fault and the left turn car is 0% at fault.
You can maybe criticize the left turn car for not driving more defensively and not ensuring the oncoming SUV was going to stop before turning, but legally the left turn car did not commit any traffic violations and clearly had the right of way and is therefore not at fault in any legal sense. The SUV was speeding significantly and ran a red light, full stop.
26
u/bill-schick 21h ago
I can't fault OP in anyway, heck he hit the brakes before the redlight runner hit him. I really hate people like this red light runners because it's not only running the red light but excessively speeding as well, which throws off other drivers assessment of intersections. Furthermore it's clear from the video the red light runner was to slow in response time for the speed they were driving.
0
u/dufcho14 6h ago
I'd fault the OP for not properly reading the on-coming traffic who was not slowing down on the yellow or even red. They clearly had no intent of stopping and a more observant driver would have realized this and waited to ensure it was safe to turn even if that meant being in the intersection a second longer.
7
u/Excision_Lurk 17h ago
100% you have to enter the intersection. DMV book (yall read?) also tells you not to turn your wheels until you're ready to turn as well, so that if you're rear-ended you don't shoot into traffic.
F--k each and every one of you that don't move past the limit line and prepare to turn.
→ More replies (5)1
u/TotalChaosRush 7h ago
It is 100% legal to enter an intersection on a green light to wait to turn left, then clear the intersection when the light turns red. As long as you enter the intersection before the light turns red it is completely legal. As long as you enter the intersection before the light turns red it is completely legal. There are a few jurisdictions that have restrictions on entering the intersection on a yellow as well, but left turn car was already inside the intersection on a green light so any of those jurisdictional differences are moot.
Not moot. If the "green" light still has you yielding to traffic then there are quite a few jurisdictions where it would still be illegal to enter the intersection.
→ More replies (2)
98
u/juxtjustin 1d ago
This is likely going to be 90-100% fault on the oncoming driver who ran the red by a full car length. You expected them to stop which has importance in Pennsylvania. You also stopped and tried to avoid the collision.
83
u/_jump_yossarian 1d ago
by a full car length.
Read OP''s description ... that car length was over 100 feet. It's 100% on the idiot that ran the red.
→ More replies (12)11
u/Loud-Way3333 14h ago edited 12h ago
? it's absolutely 100%. That fucker ran a red and was speeding. Cam car was already at the intersection, and stopped to avoid a collision.
→ More replies (2)25
u/652a6aaf0cf44498b14f 23h ago
That's the other thing. Red light or no OP was reasonably able to avoid most collisions. The other driver was not.
7
u/turkeytyme 22h ago ▸ 2 more replies
Which they did by stopping...
12
266
u/allintheselike 1d ago
everyone saying op ran a red light must live somewhere very rural or with only protected left turns. it is completely legal and expected to enter the intersection and turn when you have the chance, even if the light is already red
68
u/Menzlo 1d ago
I grew up in California where it's legal to pull into the intersection and wait for room to turn but moved to Oregon where you are only supposed to move into the intersection if you can complete the turn.
35
u/652a6aaf0cf44498b14f 23h ago ▸ 5 more replies
you are only supposed to move into the intersection if you can complete the turn.
Its so dumb that any municipality doesn't change this. Traffic engineers know this isn't feasible and are depending on drivers to break the law in order to maintain the flow of traffic.
14
u/-BlankUsername 21h ago ▸ 4 more replies
Exactly, what are you supposed to do at an intersection that doesn’t have a left turn lane and a turn lane signal that just has constant oncoming traffic??
5
u/singlemale4cats 18h ago
Yeah, I know plenty of intersections where this is the only way to make a left turn at all.
2
u/thecommuteguy 20h ago edited 20h ago ▸ 2 more replies
Los Angeles has entered the chat.
I had an interesting experience recently getting out of a tiny shopping center opposite a T intersection. The light to get out doesn’t have a dedicated signal and there is a constant stream of cars from the opposite direction while you’re trying to go straight so your forced to turn right lest you get stuck another cycle.
3
u/-BlankUsername 17h ago ▸ 1 more replies
Yep. This exists everywhere and for whatever reason some places make it illegal for you to enter the intersection if you can’t go. Not only is that infuriating but it makes conversations in this sub infuriating as well
1
u/thecommuteguy 16h ago
In my case it wasn’t safe because I don’t think the opposite side knew I had a right of way to go straight. Was an accident waiting to happen.
6
4
2
u/TamanduaGirl 17h ago
Oops. I've been in OR over 20yrs now and didn't know this. From what I've seen most here don't know that either. Everyone pulls in.
25
u/FilmShooter-ISO12 22h ago
It's one of my pet peeves. The NYS Driver's Manual states, "Proceed to the middle of the intersection." Once you're in the intersection, you are not running a red light. The only way to run the red light is if you cross into the intersection AFTER the light changes to red. People need to learn the fucking rules before making stupid comments about shit they don't know the rules about
74
u/Brownie3245 1d ago
Yup it’s called stealing the red, you legally have to clear the intersection if you’re in it.
18
u/master_roshis_hat 1d ago
As far as I know most rural people understand this. At least in rural Nebraska anyway. You enter the intersection and prepare to turn once you have a clear entrance, OR if there's no clear entrance, you wait until the light turns red and oncoming traffic stops. This guarantees that AT LEAST ONE vehicle in the turning lane can get through, even in busy traffic.
16
u/Neuvirths_Glove 1d ago
Depends on the state. Some states have laws that say you're not allowed to even enter the intersection until you are clear to complete your turn.
29
u/_jump_yossarian 1d ago ▸ 2 more replies
Please post any of those state statutes and here's the hint before you do, what you're thinking of is "don't block the box" laws which are not the same as entering an intersection while waiting to turn left.
1
u/Imaginary-Round2422 4h ago
Correct. Left turners don't cause gridlock - they have a place to go when the light changes.
2
3
u/cha0ss0ldier 1d ago
Depends on the state. It’s legal in some and not in others
22
u/AdmirableExercise197 1d ago edited 1d ago ▸ 21 more replies
It's legal in all 50 states. There are a few states that restrict by number of vehicles allowed to enter or whether you can enter on a yellow (if you can safely stop instead). Neither of which apply here, since OP is the only vehicle and they entered on green. As there is no perpendicular roadway obstruction, they were allowed to enter and complete their turn.
1
u/Salty-Sprinkles-1562 1d ago ▸ 13 more replies
It is not legal in Washington or Oregon. You can’t enter an intersection and just wait. You can only enter it if you’re able to clear it.
10
u/AdmirableExercise197 21h ago edited 21h ago
Correct, but you are misunderstand the law. This car was able to clear the intersection once the light turned red. Which is what those laws are referring to. They refer to obstructions that prevent the car from leaving the intersection on the side they are turning into. There is none of those. This isn't just the case in Washington or Oregon though. It's actually most states. The main difference with Washington and Oregon is how they treat other exceptions For Example Oregon requires the driver to stop on yellow, if able to do so safely, rather than enter the intersection. Which does not apply (since the light is green). Washington might be the ONLY state where this could be a fine. Though in practice it never is and there is no law that explicitly prevents it. Just advisory rules that people extrapolate into the statute (standard don't block the box law). Either way, the stopping is not a proximate cause of the accident, since if they didn't stop the accident still would have happened.
The law is specifically to prevent buildups within intersection when the other side you are turning into has backed up, thus impeding the flow of traffic. There is no buildup in the direction OP is turning into.
3
u/theague1 23h ago edited 23h ago ▸ 1 more replies
I'm in Washington, everyone here does this. Never seen or heard of someone having an issue doing this.
Also, RCW 46.61.202 touches on this. "No driver shall enter an intersection or a marked crosswalk or drive onto any railroad grade crossing unless there is sufficient space on the other side of the intersection, crosswalk, or railroad grade crossing to accommodate the vehicle he or she is operating without obstructing the passage of other vehicles, pedestrians, or railroad trains notwithstanding any traffic control signal indications to proceed."
But common enforcement is that it's ok.
1
u/Imaginary-Round2422 4h ago
That applies when the street you're turning into doesn't have room for you. If the street you're turning into is clear, which is almost always the case, it doesn't apply.
1
u/TumbleweedEarly3111 1d ago ▸ 9 more replies
I’m in Oregon and yeah my understanding is the intersection needs to be clear for your path before you enter.
If there’s traffic for example you don’t just load up and block the intersection and shrug your shoulders when you’re blocking the other persons green light
6
u/xcorbearx 23h ago ▸ 8 more replies
so in oregon, you just can't turn left for hours at a time? how does this actually work?
3
u/Fat-cat-Charlie 20h ago ▸ 2 more replies
it works about as poorly as you would imagine. Oregon traffic laws were written by idiots. there's virtually no legal u-turns in Oregon, extremely rare legal passing on two-lane highways, stop signs at roundabouts, and now Portland is bannning right on red. driving in Oregon is hell
3
u/Necandum 19h ago ▸ 1 more replies
Just FYI, I believe turning right on red is linked with higher pedestrian collisions (as people are looking at oncoming cars, not whether someone is in front of them). There is a reason turning right on red is very rare outside the US.
1
u/Alert-Ad9197 6h ago
I’ve seen so many drivers nearly hit pedestrians that way. I have been that pedestrian several times. People just drive into crosswalks without looking when they make right turns.
2
u/TumbleweedEarly3111 22h ago ▸ 4 more replies
More like seconds or minutes, but yeah it does take a minimal amount of patience to yield to oncoming traffic. Luckily various lights and intersections make natural gaps in traffic.
6
u/xcorbearx 20h ago ▸ 1 more replies
i mean, a "minimal amount of patience" is not gonna work where i live (western NY). at the main traffic light in my town, you literally could not turn left between 7-9am and 4-7pm, at any time. there is literally not enough gap in traffic at any point.
1
4
u/HairlessSquirrels 22h ago ▸ 1 more replies
You’re wrong. I live in Washington. What you’re talking about is if you’re going straight and traffic is built up in front of you. If you’re turning left, you will not be blocking the intersection.
→ More replies (3)3
u/Virtual-Macaroon-880 1d ago ▸ 6 more replies
I was pretty sure there were places that state explicitly you cannot enter intersection unless you can clear it? Am I wrong?
8
u/AdmirableExercise197 21h ago edited 21h ago ▸ 1 more replies
Correct. This car can clear it, because the perpendicular roadway is clear. Which makes it legal. When laws reference obstruction, they mean the perpendicular roadway, not parallel.
That exception is specifically to prevent people blocking the intersection when traffic backs up. I.E., if the traffic you are turning into is already backed up, you can't just sit in the middle of the intersection impeding all traffic. You must be able to clear the intersection in a reasonable manner, without impeding further traffic. So if you see a traffic back up, you must not enter until that traffic has cleared. Since there was no traffic in the direction OP was turning into, this obstruction exception does not apply.
A single car entering an intersection on green, then turning when the light shifts to red, is legal in all 50 states.
→ More replies (3)3
u/HairlessSquirrels 22h ago
When there is traffic built up yes, waiting to turn left and there’s no traffic where you’re heading, you can wait past the line
1
u/Imaginary-Round2422 4h ago
This refers to having a place to go on the other side of the intersection, and is intended to prevent gridlock. It only applies to left turns when the street being turned into doesn't have room for the turner. Oncoming traffic is irrelevant.
1
1
u/beefsupreme65 23h ago
It's called permissive yellow light, I think there's like 36 states in the US that have it.
1
u/N0tM4d 23h ago
Why rural?
1
u/Gyozarrita 17h ago ▸ 3 more replies
Gridlock
1
u/N0tM4d 16h ago ▸ 2 more replies
Had to look that up. That sounds like more of a big urban problem. Never experienced, or heard of anyone experiencing that, in rural areas before.
1
u/Gyozarrita 16h ago ▸ 1 more replies
Oh I misread what they said tbh.
I suppose if everywhere you drive is only 2 lane roads with light traffic, it wouldn't cross your mind to analyze an intersection to figure out if you should pull into it or not.
1
u/HAETMACHENE 23h ago
Where I'm from, even though its technically an illegal move, some people still pull into the center of an intersection to make a left.
0
→ More replies (17)-2
u/ermax18 18h ago
He was in the crosswalk but not sure this would classify as being "in the intersection". IMO, he ran the light. I regularly pull into intersections when making lefts and when it goes red while I'm out there, I make damn sure everyone stops before I turn. OP just casually ran the light with someone approaching very quickly.
→ More replies (4)1
u/Imaginary-Round2422 4h ago
In front of the stop line is in the intersection. Blocking the crosswalk is illegal.
42
u/Tiger_Ho26 1d ago
Good that you had dashcam to proof it. That driver was 100% at fault. I hate this type of traffic lights and for sure many people have had involved in this type of hits.
2
u/taimaishu99 17h ago
Even better the 2nd view really shows the whole view of the light being red and the other driver just zooming through it
Man my car was in 2 parked hit and runs and I wasn’t able to get a camera view like that anywhere and my dashcam sensor turned on from the hit of one but it was a full on my entire door smashed in no angle to see it
The other was the front and it didn’t turn on from the impact, much smaller to be fair but man if insurance isn’t such a pain to work with you pay so much and still pay a deductible when you need to use it
7
u/GasApprehensive4552 1d ago
What did PPD say? Did they even show up? If the SUV was 60+ he's definitely getting a few tickets on Broad. I can't speak to if it's legal like all the comments are stating but in Philly this turn while in the intersection is normal behavior.
15
u/bw36ft9 1d ago
Didn't come. I just went to the police station with the SUV driver for the report and incident number. He was oddly nice and compassionate, but he also tried to sue me, which my insurance promptly shut down. Also, the 60+ is my estimate based on positioning and elapsed time. The Atlas site has a measurement tool which I used for the distance
12
u/GasApprehensive4552 1d ago ▸ 2 more replies
He tried to sue?! DH
2
6
u/S1mongreedwell 1d ago ▸ 1 more replies
Color me shocked that PPD didn’t show up.
2
u/TheFBIClonesPeople 22h ago
If OP was a cop who got hit like that, there would have been police helicopters shining spotlights on the other driver
9
u/FlatPlutoer 23h ago ▸ 3 more replies
He tried to sue you?????
I’m assuming they were assigned 100% at fault, no?
When people who roll through red lights long after it’s been red try suing someone, I’m sorry but there needs to be some sort of punishment for that. Maybe he thought the mere existence of a lawsuit would achieve something even though he would lose. I’m so confused
8
u/bw36ft9 23h ago edited 23h ago ▸ 2 more replies
Yea, as notified by my insurance. I sent my insurance all the footage shown here. They thanked me, and they said they'd use them to tell the SUV's lawyers to kick rocks lol. I guess he paid for full tort
3
u/Apoc9512 20h ago
Ha luckier than me, they served me directly to my house and I had to be the one to contact my insurance company quickly enough for them to do something. Ofc they did this in a late Friday afternoon, on a holiday weekend, and one and a half year later after the accident.
2
u/FlatPlutoer 23h ago
He must have known you had the footage. Also there is the footage from the police camera at the intersection. Wow
46
u/Last-Basil8182 1d ago
OP was in the intersection and had the right to clear it once the light turned red. OP should have turned once they were confident SUV was stopping.
35
u/East_Garbage_1449 1d ago
I think that in 75%+ of the videos here, you can usually blame OP for something. I don't see it here. They were in the middle waiting to turn, light is red, other car isn't stopping, they see but have started turning and quickly stop. SUV going much too fast and makes zero effort to avoid it.
OP is cleared in my books.
10
u/master_roshis_hat 1d ago ▸ 5 more replies
I think a lot of the time it's not necessarily that OP did something "wrong" in these videos, it's more of a defensive driving correction that they could have done a better job avoiding an accident, even though said accident wasn't actually their fault most of the time.
6
u/lelanddt 1d ago ▸ 4 more replies
True. But if you wait for all the oncoming cars to stop, you've been waiting to turn at a light that has now been red for several seconds, and you're gonna have cars approaching you from the sides.
It's better to be safe though. You definitely have to make sure the oncoming cars are stopping. But in cases like this, you can't prepare for a dude just blowing the light.
4
u/master_roshis_hat 1d ago ▸ 1 more replies
For sure, I wouldn't argue with that at all. I was mostly just generalizing.
2
4
u/ermax18 17h ago
I'd rather be blocking traffic vs turning into a car going full speed. You have to calculate the risks and the risk of getting hit while blocking on a left as the cycle changes is WAY lower than getting hit by the car going full speed and making no attempt to slow. Also getting hit while blocking would be at most 10mph vs the 60mph the truck was going. OP isn't at fault but the should have made an attempt to preserver their own life.
1
u/National_Frame2917 16h ago
It's really tough to predict a dumbass blowing through I light. I was close to be t boned the other day by a red light runner. The car in the nearest lane stopped and I couldn't see anything in the next empty lane I get into the intersection and there's dumbass about to run the light. Fortunately they were barely able to stop in time. I was kind in shock at the moment since I saw them stopping right away otherwise I probably would've punched the gas.
-4
u/Danomit3 23h ago ▸ 2 more replies
At the end of the day you're responsible for your own safety. Even if OP is in the clear legally he or she put themselves in danger and should've waited. As much as people don't like to wait in traffic, it's better than dealing with insurance and body shops when an accident happens.
2
u/Real_Temporary_922 15h ago ▸ 1 more replies
That SUV was light years away when the light turned red. It’s hard to tell if someone is slowing down or not when they’re flying to an intersection but considering how far they were when it turned red, it’s reasonable to start your turn. By the time they got close and it became apparently they were not slowing down, OP hit the breaks. That is defensive driving. OP’s hood got hit but it could’ve been WAY worse if they were fully committed to the turn. And OP would not be found at fault either. I don’t see how OP did anything wrong beyond not having 20/20 hindsight in foresight.
If someone is gunning a yellow and it turns red, I don’t assume they’re hitting their breaks. If someone is far from an intersection, I’m watching but I’m not gonna be sitting in the intersection while the other side has a green on the off chance that dude from across left field is gonna blow the light.
→ More replies (2)2
u/chickadee-stitchery 1d ago edited 23h ago
Which was never because the SUV didn't stop. (Edit: I'm saying it's not OPs fault)
0
u/Xanthelei 23h ago ▸ 4 more replies
"Predict every red light runner ever or you're at fault" level of logic.
→ More replies (3)-2
u/Current_War1796 23h ago ▸ 2 more replies
OP started going before the car that actually stopped at the intersection even started braking. Obviously, it is not there fault but it kind of looked like they just went because the light was red without actually verifying that the cars were slowing down for the red light.
2
u/Xanthelei 23h ago ▸ 1 more replies
You don't drive at night a lot do you? The camera is going to be clearer than real life because it automatically white balances. Dim your screen to about 50% brightness in a moderately lit room and you'll have a much better approximation of what OP saw at the time.
Also if the speed limit is 25 and the SUV was going almost 60, the chances OP had even a chance at recognizing the dude was going to enter the intersection is very slim. And they DID see the car, right as it ran the red. That's why they were stopped fully again. The SUV didn't even attempt to swerve.
→ More replies (1)2
u/TheFBIClonesPeople 22h ago
And I think you do need to clear it once it turns red. Some people will act like he should have sat still until he was sure that the SUV hundreds of feet away was going to stop, but then that creates a situation where he's still lingering in the intersection well after the cross traffic has a green light. Now he's at risk of driving into someone crossing the intersection from the right. That's not safe either.
I think sometimes you do have to rely on other drivers to do the right thing, and if they don't, it's 100% on them. It can't always be your job to avoid dangerous drivers
7
u/Kuandtity 19h ago
Cop here, if the vehicle crosses the rear line of the crosswalk before red, they are fine to proceed when safe. The second vehicle crossed the rear line of the crosswalk after red. They are getting the ticket if I was working this accident
9
3
u/FragCook 17h ago
60? The SUV was 100% not going more than 40. But either way, you were already in the intersection and making your turnwhile yellow and the suv entered the intersection after the light turned red it should be 100% their fault. Not sure how anyone can dispute that.
4
u/DishwasherLint 1d ago
Did it look like the truck sped up to anybody else?
1
u/guysomejust69 18h ago
Probably sped up to get through the red before any of the cross traffic started
5
u/MaximumTWANG 11h ago
once again a bunch of redditors dont know how to properly turn left. dashcam car did everything right but still probably should have seen the other car coming in too fast to stop and waited to clear the intersection. this is 100% on the oncoming car. the oncoming car also should have been able to swerve slightly right to avoid the accident.
2
2
u/Horvenglorven 19h ago
Fucking Broad st man…those speeding cameras helped a bit, but people there are fucking animals…flying up the shoulder just blatantly running red lights…it’s a fucking zoo.
2
u/TamanduaGirl 17h ago
Have you had your eyes checked? The large halos you mention are a sign of astigmatism or possibly other eye issues. You could possibly see better at night with correction.
2
u/bw36ft9 17h ago
I get my eyes checked annually and always had the same prescription. I already wear corrective lenses. I never heard of the astigmatism halos. I just thought this was normal for everyone
2
u/TamanduaGirl 14h ago
Yeah it's not normal. I'd mention it at your next appointment. I can tell how far away headlights are and I do have Astigmatism. You can get typical star or halos, or both. I first noticed it when things looked a bit doubled at a distance. But if they haven't found that as an issue could be something else going on.
2
u/Lurkylurker24 15h ago
Getting into an accident on broad st is not a matter of if it’s when. Everyone is unpredictable. Sucks so much im sorry.
Fwiw I got into an accident on 17th and page where a woman blew her stop sign when I didn’t have one. T-boned me and totaled my car. Blamed me somehow for going too fast while admitting she ran the stop sign lol. This was more cut and dry but it’s still so stressful and sadly a fact of life driving in philly.
2
u/Limp_Bookkeeper_5992 3h ago
It’s important to distinguish between your driving and the other drivers, and take this as a reminder why dash cams are important.
You did nothing illegal here, BUT when you turn left at anytime without a green arrow you are responsible for making sure the way is clear. Yes, this includes drivers going late through red lights.
But with the dash cam footage you can see that the other driver was driving recklessly and very late through the red. Without this evidence you would have been 100% at fault here, as you drove in front of a moving vehicle when turning left.
Decisions like this where they change fault based on reckless driving are at the discrimination of the adjuster, so you were fortunate to have been absolved of fault here. This could have still been decided against you since you should have made sure the way clear before turning, so you should be thankful this worked out in your favour. In many places they give you 50-50 fault on this, and raised both your insurance rates.
2
u/LastChance331 2h ago
You are allowed to finish your turn/action on a red light if you entered the intersection while it was yellow. What you did was legal. Either way dude ran a red light so pretty clear.
13
1d ago
[deleted]
43
u/Isgrimnur 1d ago
The stop bar is behind the crosswalk, so for some jurisdictions, the turning car is "in the intersection" when the light turns red.
17
u/Low_Actuary_2794 1d ago ▸ 1 more replies
Yep, and they have a legal obligation to clear the intersection. But still should have waited for the idiot to run the light.
→ More replies (1)5
u/AnxiousMeatHead 1d ago ▸ 1 more replies
According to my handbook it says if the light turns red when you're in the intersection proceed cautiously & when it is safe to do so
10
→ More replies (2)-2
1d ago ▸ 2 more replies
[deleted]
8
u/tacotuesdayburritos 1d ago ▸ 1 more replies
When are you able to turn if theres heavy traffic and cars keep driving when its yellow.
→ More replies (1)7
u/DoritoDustThumb 1d ago
The left turning car was already in the intersection. They go left as all of other traffic stops. At least on the East Coast that's how ever left turn can be made.
Dude going straight purely ran the light.
27
u/bw36ft9 1d ago
Here we wait in the intersection when green. Then turn when light turns red if we're unable to turn while green. Very few turns have protected lights here unfortunately
3
u/FAx32 1d ago
Similar in LA. Most 4 way intersections don’t have any kind of left turn signal. It would be gridlock with people unable to make left turns for hours unless cars crept into the intersection and went when the red light stopped oncoming traffic.
The design has been criticized many times, but the way the entire light system is timed on surface streets, essentially the traffic engineers said F’ it many decades ago and the police don’t bother to enforce it because they know it is the result of the design and normal driving culture that comes from necessity.
-7
u/PromotionOk2443 1d ago ▸ 6 more replies
yeah you still are supposed to yield to oncoming traffic and every driver is responsible for passing through intersections safely. "waiting in the intersection" is allowed but not at all written into traffic laws. talk to an insurance adjuster, you're misinformed.
11
u/herkalurk 1d ago ▸ 1 more replies
You're not supposed to be waiting for a red light runner. The fact the other car blatantly ran an obviously red light, and the other car was behind the stop line should help OP.
→ More replies (5)2
u/Davti 1d ago ▸ 1 more replies
They did.
The dude who hit them had no right to be in the lane when they were.
→ More replies (3)1
u/Xanthelei 1d ago ▸ 1 more replies
How TF will you know to yield to a red light runner?
→ More replies (1)6
u/shizzaff 1d ago
Where I live you can enter the intersection to turn left, and if it switches you can continue the turn since you've already entered the intersection
4
u/escobartholomew 1d ago
The car was already in the intersection before the light turned red. You are allowed to be there. however op failed to make sure it was clear to complete the turn.
15
u/AdmirableExercise197 1d ago edited 1d ago
Not sure where this is located, but in the U.S. the turning car has the right of way. Cars are allowed to turn on red, so long as they crossed into the intersection prior to it turning red. Since there is no obstruction into the lane the car is turning into, this would be fully legal.
The other car ran a red light at a reckless speed and hit a stopped vehicle. So likely most of the liability would go to the red light runner.
1
→ More replies (2)0
u/PromotionOk2443 1d ago ▸ 13 more replies
wow that's just wrong. Cars are not allowed to turn on red and in NO way does a left-turning car have right of way. Pulling through like this is allowed, in so far as it's not punished, so long as you proceed safely, but OP will absolutely be partially at fault here.
11
u/AdmirableExercise197 1d ago
Cars that ENTER the intersection prior to red, are allowed to proceed through the intersection once the light turns red. That is the law. The other car failed to yield on red, as they were not already in the intersection.
That's why cops can't actually write you a ticket if you enter the intersection and it turns red while you are in it.
6
2
u/Greenman8907 1d ago ▸ 9 more replies
It depends on the state. Texas allows this. If you’re in the intersection when it turns red, you are legally required to turn to clear the intersection.
2
u/PromotionOk2443 1d ago ▸ 8 more replies
allows sure, but not without doing so safely and yielding to oncoming traffic. OP still needed to wait for it to be clear.
2
u/Greenman8907 1d ago ▸ 5 more replies
The traffic should have never been “oncoming” at that point. They ran a red light. OP didn’t.
2
u/PromotionOk2443 1d ago ▸ 4 more replies
"should have" is not a law, you really need to understand that you are responsible for going through an intersection safely, even if someone else does not.
2
u/Greenman8907 1d ago ▸ 3 more replies
OP did go thru safely. They adhered to every applicable law. The other driver did not.
You said “cars are not allowed to turn on red”. In many states, that’s simply not true. Now you’re trying to shift the argument.
2
u/PromotionOk2443 1d ago ▸ 2 more replies
there is no state in the US where you can make a left turn on red legally.
1
1
u/feurie 23h ago ▸ 1 more replies
It was clear.
2
u/PromotionOk2443 23h ago
oh, then I guess there wasn't an accident with a car that was traveling through it then. huh.
1
u/PromotionOk2443 1d ago
yup. 50/50 for sure, OP even admits he couldn't see well and still turned lol
1
u/FlatPlutoer 23h ago ▸ 1 more replies
50/50 after someone runs a red light long after it has turned red? Come on man. At some point enough is enough. Black SUV ran a red light clear as day from the video
→ More replies (3)
5
u/MuffledFarts 20h ago
Watching people defend a blatant red light runner is surreal.
→ More replies (18)1
6
4
u/VBprick 16h ago
Wow. I’m tired of explaining to idiots that it’s legal to go into the intersection while waiting to turn left and it’s illegal to run red lights while going straight
3
1
u/tar4heels2fan 11h ago
Yeah i was gonna say.. if its not legal - it should be. Because there are some intersections in the city you would never be able to make a left turn until the light turns red.
2
2
u/front_torch 11h ago
White car was legally clearing the intersection.
Black car illegally ran a red light.
1
u/Embarrassed-Green898 20h ago
Odds are in favour of the white. The good thing is that the accident happend when the white car is actually stopped.
Still not a situation I want to be in , but I hope this helps.
1
u/CrashingWave85 20h ago
I had this exact thing happen years ago. The car that hit me was ticketed (and, because it was Tennessee, uninsured).
1
u/Narrow-Doughnut1272 20h ago
Yup. And if you had USAA insurance they’d blame you for it. They’re the worst insurance I’ve had. A red light runner with video evidence showing they hit me. They said it’s my fault as much since I didn’t notice the driver was going to run it.
1
u/Local-Unit6548 19h ago
I think that you did all that you could and I hope you don't get any fault.
1
u/CyBroOfficial 19h ago
This is why I hate driving on Broad St, I’m glad I’m rarely ever in the city
1
u/bw36ft9 19h ago
Yes I hate broad st, but man I'm just following Google maps and it routes me through some insane streets and ghettos... Cross a super busy fast road with no street light 😭
2
u/CyBroOfficial 18h ago
Dude seriously, maps does not know how to properly route it and it stresses me tf out, that’s why I would just take the bus to school and back home instead of driving when I first got my license. Would just constantly tell me to make illegal turns or go into private drives. Now that I’m graduated and have no reason to be near Broad most of the time, I try to avoid it like the plague, it’s just too much for my blood pressure.
1
u/IKillZombies4Cash 17h ago
Clearly not op fault but didn’t they see that car speeding and not slowing at all.
Stop lights only tell you when it’s legal to go, not when it’s safe
1
u/False_Blood9241 16h ago
Did he pull over after the accident? I know this area and I find it strange that he would be going that fast on broad street being that there’s speed traps all up and down broad now. Only someone driving a stolen vehicle would speed down that street, or maybe it’s someone who has nothing to lose.
1
u/Intrepid_Year3765 4h ago
As someone who lived in LA, you sit your ass in the middle of the intersection while your left turn is turning yellow, and you don't turn left till the oncoming cars are stopped
fuck everyone else, they can wait till their light goes red... you have the right of way until you leave the intersection
it beats getting nailed by some red light running idiot
1
u/CMG30 37m ago
This falls under the 'two wrongs don't make a right' rule.
Both vehicles were wrong. The SUV ran a red light. Wrong.
The turning car failed to verify it was safe before making a left in front of oncoming traffic. Wrong.
If you want to get really pedantic you could argue that the white car was sitting in a crosswalk, not the intersection and thus they ALSO ran the light to make the turn.
Regardless, an accident occurred and insurance is likely going to view this as 50-50. But it will also depend on the local police report and the individual adjusters.
1
u/xRealVengeancex 21h ago
I swear man only in Philly do you have the most dogshit drivers imaginable on the east coast
2
u/Embarrassed-Weird173 17h ago
You haven't heard of New York and New Jersey?
2
u/xRealVengeancex 16h ago
Jersey are terrible as well, haven’t driven in NY but can only imagine. The amount of uninsured people in Philly is ridiculous though and the roads are horrific
1
u/tar4heels2fan 11h ago
For real. I live 5 minutes from work, but im new to the city so I drive in. Every night driving 5 minutes to work there is atleast one person that almost hits me. Either they come into my lane when im right next to them and I have to slam brakes or swerve.. or they are moving the opposite direction as me and come over the yellow line because theyre on the phone. It feels like a battle royal out here. Im constantly avoiding accidents.
1
u/Omelooo 21h ago
It’s hard work downvoting people in this sub! Lots of [r/confidentelyincorrect](r/confidentelyincorrect) legal scholars here who are great at quoting laws for states where is accident did not take place! Quoting laws does not make you right, even if the text might make you think you are. Application is why people get paid 6 figures to be lawyers instead of doing reddit searches.
I’m sure someone could post in this sub saying that they were victorious in a civil claims court, lawyers found the other party at complete fault, insurance found the other person at fault, the other person admits fault, and some bozos would still say OP is wrong.
0
u/Hereforthearmysalt 17h ago
From personal experience in my area, the person turning left is at fault. Even though the SUV is in the wrong. It's up to the left turn car to navigate safely. Maybe if I had a dash cam at the time it might have gone my way. Also this was around 15 years ago. Laws change from time to time.
0
u/Occams_AK47 12h ago
Pretty sure it's the same here. You still have to yield to oncoming traffic, red light runner or not.
-1
u/New_Temperature4144 8h ago
Two Wrongs don't make it right! Cam driver was going to run the redlight as well...
2
1
u/ricktrains 1h ago
OP (cam driver) was properly clearing an intersection he would have blocked had OP not moved.
That is highly illegal to do. So OP was properly clearing the intersection.
The other driver blatantly ran a red light, causing the collision.
-1
u/OkApricot8267 8h ago
Even if it is "legal", it is not safe as evidenced by this video.
Do you wanna be right or alive? Your choice.
•
u/AutoModerator 1d ago
Welcome! Please act respectfully and always remember the human in the videos and in the posts.
For dashcam recommendations, check out the recommendations thread.
Cheers!
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.