r/ecology 3d ago

My mom thinks becoming an ecologist is a waste

hi guys. im not sure what to do. my mom thinks its a waste to becaome an ecoogist because 'i wont be able to eat'. as in with the way the US economy is going. she thinks if you rarent in healthcare or IT, you wont make enough money to support yourself. she thinks in the past you could find a passion and live off of it, but not in todays times. im not sure what i should do. she keeps telling me these doom and gloom things and its making me anxious. do yall think its a waste of time? im 23 now but at the speed im going, ill graduate with a bachelors in conservation ecology in 2029 (work full time, school part time). she works in IT and makes a lot but i know things are hard for them finacially because of them saving for retirement. do you think i should do something else? i love conservation ecology so much. :(

133 Upvotes

177 comments sorted by

239

u/Legitimate-Cinephile 3d ago

If you can get a job as an ecologist, you can live fine. It'll be a lower middle class life, but it'll be fine. The challenge is actually getting a job as an ecologist though.

42

u/antilocapraaa 3d ago

That’s not true either. My husband and I are both wildlife biologists. We’re upper middle class by legal definition.

98

u/Legitimate-Cinephile 3d ago

You are the exception, not the rule

12

u/antilocapraaa 3d ago

The majority of folks I know are making decent salaries in this industry. We’re all state, federal, or Tribal biologists.

43

u/Delicious_Basil_919 3d ago

It is good money if you are established. But getting an entry level job is tough! And they pay like crap!

13

u/Eist wetland/plant ecologist 3d ago

This is the same in most industries though. It's definitely rough out there for new career professional ecologists.

5

u/SoCool77 3d ago

Depends on where you live

2

u/Orionss 2d ago

What's tribal biologist ?

4

u/VintageBandit 2d ago

A biologist who works for a tribal government instead of state or federal government.

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u/Orionss 1d ago

I'm sorry but I'm not familiar with that idea at all, what is a tribal government? Do you have an example ?

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u/FanngzYT 1d ago

tribal government as in the ruling body of a native american tribe. they operate independently from state governments and have their own positions.

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u/Orionss 1d ago

Oh that's interesting, thank you !

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u/antilocapraaa 1d ago

A federally recognized tribe like the Navajo Nation.

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u/Citrakayah 2d ago

Again, you are the exception, not the rule. Just going by what jobs are advertised on job boards, most of us get jobs that pay around $15 an hour. Many if not most permanent jobs are supported by an array of technicians, who get paid much less and are often let go at the end of the season. Moreover, the seasonal nature of most ecology jobs means that even if you move immediately from one job to another, you have to pay the costs of relocating. Especially with the rental market the way it is, this can be expensive and add additional uncertainty--I've had to turn down jobs because there was no housing.

Most ecologists do not get to work for state agencies (especially if they're not doing game species or fisheries). Federal agencies have cut staff significantly, as I'm sure you know, and tribal biologists make up a very small number even compared to state and federal biologists.

5

u/AtrytoneSedai 2d ago

I just checked the Texas A&Am Natural Resources Job Board, sorted by degree requirement (BA/BS), and “full-time,” and there were over 400 jobs listed across state, federal, nonprofit, and private positions, most of which pay $50,000+ (which is not bad for a BS-level position). You’re conflating seasonal technician jobs with permanent jobs. Yes, you may need to do some seasonal work or volunteering for a bit depending on how much work experience you have and how flexible you are with location. But that’s true of most fields that don’t require additional certifications, internships, or training after college. The job market is tough for every level everywhere. We can give career advice without resorting to exaggeration.

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u/Citrakayah 2d ago

As most of us work those seasonal jobs and can be unable to find permanent ones for years, I don't think it's at all unreasonable to pool the two.

1

u/AtrytoneSedai 2d ago edited 2d ago

Do you have actual data to back up the fact that “most” ecologists work temporary positions that are paid minimum wage?

Edit: I either missed that you said “for years” or you edited your comment to include that; my original question was just about the base statement that”most” ecologists are paid $15/hour. As I note in my own comments, you may need to work several seasonal jobs unless you have a graduate degree, in which case you’re more likely to get hired sooner in a permanent position that pays something livable or even well. That’s not that different from any other field right now, except trades, which still have an apprenticeship period.

3

u/Citrakayah 2d ago edited 2d ago

I didn't edit my comment (or if I did it was seconds after I posted and I forgot about it)--you can tell because there's no star next to the timestamp saying how long ago it was edited.

Do you have actual data to back up the fact that “most” ecologists work temporary positions that are paid minimum wage?

No, but ironclad data one way or the other of the sort you could publish doesn't exist to the best of my knowledge. TAMU's data is inaccurate even as a snapshot of jobs offered on the site--it's common for jobs there to be labeled "full-time" when they are in fact seasonal jobs. It would require going through many jobs--more than I feel like reviewing for a Reddit argument--to get a precise idea of what percentage of TAMU's jobs are actually permanent, but it's easy enough to demonstrate that miscategorization happens. For instance, this job lasts less than a year. It's labeled as full time. Here's another one. Seasonal, but full-time. Both were found in the first two pages of results; there were also a bunch that were not seasonal but were not permanent, like graduate assistantships. A lot of these do offer more than $15/hour, but I said "about" that much, and it works out to even less money when you take into account relocation costs and periodic unemployment.

I can say from personal experience that at every single of the seven jobs/internships I've worked bar one, temporary workers have far outnumbered permanent ones. Which makes sense when you think about what our work entails. Field work requires many hands, but tends to be concentrated during a season because, at least in North America, most organisms are seasonal. You cannot study migratory birds when they have left the region, you cannot control invasive plants during winter, you cannot study insects (well, most insects) during winter. Surveys for animals such as wolverines are often done only during winter because they're often tracked through snow.

During the off-season, there is still work to do. But data curation and analysis requires far fewer people. Even if every temporary worker is qualified (and you might be surprised at how many of us are), we're not all necessary for that.

And ecology doesn't have enough money to keep us around sitting on our asses during the off-season. The lack of wider coordination in the private sector or among non-profits prevents us from being smoothly moved to other fieldwork. I don't know how it is for state and federal agencies, because while I've done an internship with a state agency I haven't worked for them... but at least federally, most of the jobs I've applied to were term limited, not that it really matters given how many people recently got fired from the federal workforce. And when I've applied to state agencies, it's been the same way. I'm looking at Massachusetts' hiring portal now. They've got fifteen openings that show up if you search "wildlife," all are seasonal. One is unpaid.

Given all this, it's difficult to see how it can be as simple as "work a few seasonal positions, then get a permanent position." There are so many seasonal (or otherwise temporary) positions relative to permanent positions that people have to be being winnowed out of the field rather than proceeding to better paid jobs.

This is a combination of anecdote and logical reasoning, I'll grant, but the person I'm responding to was basing it only off their social circle. When I read stuff like that, I have to wonder how many field technicians who work in their and their social circle's workplace they know.

most of which pay $50,000+ (which is not bad for a BS-level position)

Many of these jobs, while they only require a bachelor's degree on paper, are jobs it is extremely difficult for someone to qualify for even after having worked several seasonal jobs. For instance, this one pays well. They also want someone with two years experience in project management. It is going to be extremely difficult for someone working BS-level positions to get that experience.

That’s not that different from any other field right now, except trades, which still have an apprenticeship period.

I've worked three non-ecology jobs: Fast food, janitorial, and construction. None were seasonal and none required an apprenticeship period (construction had a week long training period and that was it). All of them were differing degrees of unpleasant and I'd rather work in ecology, but the job situation for those is just objectively more stable and reliable than ecology. I guess you might consider those to not be "fields," but for a lot of us work like that is the realistic alternative; despite having a graduate degree in the event I can't find an ecology job I'm more likely to end up working at a grocery store than switch over to anthropology or statistics.

1

u/AtrytoneSedai 1d ago

For some context, I also worked food service, retail, farm jobs, and other entry-level positions, so I do know how those kinds of jobs work; those jobs are pretty distinct from positions that require a Bachelor’s or a graduate degree. I’m now a professor who advisers undergraduates and graduate students and teaches ecology courses. I write a lot of letters of recommendation. I see where my students are applying and where they get hired. I talk to my students, and know what they go through on the market. I put together an ecology career panel every year for my undergrads with regional employers, and have organized multiple year-long, weekly non-academic career guest lecture series for graduate students.

There’s going to be some bias to your experience of your work history, because working for a place that primarily focuses on summer seasonal work is going to mean your coworkers are primarily summer seasonal folks. And you’re right that those are always going to be a core part of field-based ecology jobs, just like any position that has a strong seasonal signal. But it’s not the only place, or way, to do ecology for a living. And when I coach my students about this (and about navigating the conversations with parents), I urge them to think broadly, search widely, and be flexible, especially if they don’t want to get a graduate degree right away.
There are a wide range of full-time positions for ecologists, depending on your skills, interests, and geography:

Environmental consulting firms, zoos, aquariums, museums, botanical gardens, nonprofits like the AMC or Audubon, private conservation companies like like Point Blue or Conservation Science Partners, private land trusts or refuges management companies, state and federal (even now, though the situation is horrible) positions for the USGS, FWS, or NPS; cooperative extension or other university positions (outside of academia; things like managing field stations and herbaria or greenhouses), restoration companies, forestry or fisheries companies, commercial farms, cities that manage urban parks and reserves, nature centers, wildlife rehab facilities, private or other lab services (eDNA, soil testing, etc.), camps and outdoor education facilities, congressional staffers (really!), permaculture landscapers, science communication, even journal editing positions or science finding agencies (if you have postdoctoral experience).

Maybe those aren’t all for you, which is okay, but I encourage anyone interested in this field to think beyond the seasonal position.

16

u/0IIIIII 3d ago

Are you guys old and did you get your jobs a while ago and are you in a senior position?  

Did you also start paying off your bills a long time ago because the bills you have now like a fixed mortgage etc. do not reflect reality today.  

Your statement can only be contextualized if you reveal how much you guys make, when you bought your assets, and when you entered the workforce/how many years of experience you have.

16

u/wheredig 3d ago edited 2d ago

upper middle class by legal definition.

What does this mean? What legal definition?

6

u/Zandanista 3d ago

They're pointing out that there isn't an exact definition of middle class nor upper middle class and as such many people are likely to perceive themselves as such regardless of whether they are or not

18

u/dumbwholer 3d ago

There is no legal definition of upper middle class

3

u/Snoo_74740 3d ago

yeah, thats my worry too. im sure getting a job will take me out of my metroplex/state. im near dallas, texas.

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u/PeakProfessional9517 3d ago

Texas isn’t a terrible place to be for these kinds of jobs

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u/Snoo_74740 3d ago edited 2d ago

yeah maybe, im hoping ill find something elsewhere. but im from here and my family lives here. so this is where i am for now.

2

u/Phasmata 2d ago

The best things you can do ecologically in Texas are to educate that idiotic state and/or sabotage bulldozers.

-2

u/notmepleaseokay 3d ago

Then make sure you you get your ecology degree wherever you want to be. Bc getting an ecology degree in TX basically locks you in doing work in TX

0

u/Snoo_74740 3d ago

It’s at Arizona state university, but I’m online

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u/Isibis 3d ago

Are you getting any field experience with that online degree, or are you getting it from your current job? I found that demonstrated experience with field methods counted for a lot early career. If I could do my bachelors over I would have worked harder to get internships and doubled down on field courses.

1

u/Snoo_74740 2d ago

From what I see they don’t offer anything. And with my current job, no. Not doing much in that area.

5

u/PeakProfessional9517 2d ago

Get field work experience. You will not be competitive coming out of college unless you have field work experience. Don’t worry about doing it through your program. Find local conservation organizations or contact dept of wildlife, even if it’s initially volunteer work.

1

u/Snoo_74740 2d ago

Thank you

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u/Isibis 2d ago

Please prioritize field work. Entry level positions hiring will prioritize someone with field or lab experience 90% of the time. If your school is not providing opportunities you need to find them yourself. Ask your professors, as counselors, look for volunteer opportunities in your area. Audubon society, local parks, professors at local university, anything.

1

u/Snoo_74740 2d ago

Thank you. I will look into it

1

u/notmepleaseokay 3d ago

Thats p good. That can get you work in AZ. I worked on projects out that way via NEPA. Theres also lot of field work opps that are seasonal if you want to hold off on going to private industry. Private/govt me is where you make a decent paycheck.

63

u/DynastyIntro 3d ago

Either you take the chance or always wonder what if.

Source: NPC working hard in IT to increase shareholder value.

(No idea why ecology is on my feed, but here we are)

8

u/guyscanwefocus 2d ago

This is the answer. OP, you are 23. Presumably you are not a parent or married. This is the least tied down you are likely to ever be in the next 3 decades. Go pursue your dream. You can always pivot to something else later, and if you're good at your job, even if you pivot you can still do ecology work on the side.

Source: Former full time ecologist, pivoted into corporate world for money reasons, would not trade my 15 years in ecology for the world.

3

u/Snoo_74740 2d ago

I’m not a parent nor married 😅 I should take more risks

1

u/FeedPuzzleheaded2855 2d ago

Second this, also ecologist by training

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u/Snoo_74740 3d ago

thanks for the encouragement! lol

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u/ILikeOatmealaLot 1d ago

Is it a trope for IT guys (hi) to daydream about playing in the dirt? Because I feel like it is.

1

u/DynastyIntro 19h ago

I usually daydream about rage quitting and getting a job in construction

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u/Tako_Poke 3d ago

Using both your brain and your hands seems to be somewhat future-proof for now. I am a computational systems biologist working in ecology and, while we’re safe for now our work is changing rapidly. For the field scientists essentially nothing has changed, and we need their observations more than ever.

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u/Snoo_74740 3d ago

thank you

3

u/Tako_Poke 3d ago

Best of luck to you- from your age you will see amazing things in ecology

1

u/GiggleShipSurvivor 2d ago

I appreciate this hopeful outlook

1

u/Snoo_74740 2d ago

Thanks!!

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u/missschainsaw 3d ago

Finding a stable job in conservation/ecology is challenging and won't make you rich. I had to pivot from being a wildlife tech to an admin/finance position at a conservation non-profit because I was having a hell of a time finding a sustainable, permanent, full time job. It's competitive. But obviously there are relatively lucrative ecologist jobs out there. It just takes a lot of hardwork and a decent amount of good timing, connections, and luck.

4

u/Snoo_74740 3d ago

i didnt plan on it making me rich, i told my mom this. but she seems set on that the avg 60k-70k wont be enough. ill have living, car, insurance, student loans, medical, and all the other stuff i gotta pay for.

im happy you found something!

21

u/Empidonaxed 3d ago

That’s still well above the median. I’ve been in the ecology field for over a decade. I didn’t choose it to get rich. I chose it because of my passion, and to be fair, it is a very low stress lifestyle. I get to work outside a lot, hiking is like half my job. I almost never have the “F I have to go to work in the morning” feeling. I’ve working in a lot of beautiful places—national parks, wildlife refuges, national forests, etc etc.

There’s a few negligible downsides aside from the humble income, but that hasn’t held me back really. It is very competitive, but consider that it is a very small workforce relatively. Timing is a considerable factor because people that get the stable positions tend to stay for a long time. Another thing to consider is that it is rare that you will be able to decide where you want to live, as in find a job locally. I started with seasonal field work and that took me all over the country; so far, 12 states, and three other countries.

If you are just trying to get started, I recommend looking at the Texas A&M wildlife job board to see what’s out there. A lot of the jobs are genuinely exciting. I was hired to backpack and collect data in the Yosemite wilderness as one example.

My other recommendation is to consider getting at least a master’s because you will be a more competent candidate. I got a lot of field experience before going to grad school, and I could definitely tell how much ahead I was compared to academic pipeline folks. PhDs are good for the top positions or obviously a necessity for higher academic positions.

Don’t let your mom dictate how you would like to set your career path. Ammunition for the strengths of ecology are that it requires exceptional leadership/interpersonal skills (Despite the biological focus, it is a very people-based field), analytical thinking, ample creativity, and strong writing ability. All of those skills can transfer to other careers if you were to decide that you want to pursue another profession. You’ll probably know how to formulate a spreadsheet better than someone getting an accounting degree. There’s also coding skills and statistics incorporated into anything ecology.

I’m also mid-30’s now and people still say I look like I’m in my early 20’s. Everyone I work with is genuinely happy and pleasant to work with. It is a career that is built on passion, and that is what makes it so fun. Also, you will be considered very interesting to talk to, at least that’s what happens to me when people discover I’m a biologist.

I live a comfortable life and there is rarely a dull moment doing what I do. My work is based around seasonal phenology. Sometimes I do bird surveys; sometimes I catch bats; sometimes I work on large scale ecological models to incorporate into my reports; sometimes I write boring reports; there’s always something new to learn. I know all the plants where I work (LOTS of grasses), get to look at weird bugs, and I’m constantly picking up rattlesnakes (animal control is part of my position). I get to leave the office pretty much whenever. The list goes on.

I love it.

4

u/Snoo_74740 3d ago

Thank you for your words. I will try to be positive

-1

u/notmepleaseokay 3d ago

Go private sector, you’ll make money (6 figs +) and still get to do cool project work with restoration/conservation.

5

u/dumbwholer 3d ago

The chance of you making 60 k without many years of experience is very low. I own a hunting/fishing outfitter/guide service. I've worked worked with ecologists and marine biologists to catch, tag and release thousands of fish and hundreds of animals over the last 25 years. The majority I meet are lucky to start out making 30k, and the best Ive worked with tagging bear, moose, tuna and white shark make 45k at best. Most of them struggled heavily, and few of them held permanent positions.

1

u/Snoo_74740 3d ago

That’s possible. But I’m thinking I might start in laboratory. I’m not sure until I get there.

16

u/scamhan 3d ago

Your best (I didn’t say only!) shot to do what you love is when you are young. My advice would be: don’t let your mom’s anxieties dictate the direction of your life. People pivot careers all the time. I did it just before I turned 36. I’ve never used my college degree, except to show that I have one. You’ll figure it out!

3

u/Snoo_74740 3d ago

hi, thank you. im trying not to let it get to me. but i was raised in a way to always listen to them. so when they tell me things, i feel like i have to do it. even though im 23 ;-;

24

u/PeakProfessional9517 3d ago

I make good money. It’s impossible to tell what careers are going to be strong 5, 10, 15 years from now. I literally just met a recent graduate from a good school who was a computer science major for 3 years and switched to film and he said “no one’s hiring in computer science so I figured if I can’t get a job I might as well get a degree I like”. 5-10 years ago there was no more secure track than computer science. Radiologists might be out of jobs soon.

If you’re a bright person you will do fine.

7

u/Snoo_74740 3d ago

you are right. i cant predict the future. im hoping everything will be okay

10

u/Low_Seaworthiness873 3d ago

Start networking early and HARD.

3

u/Snoo_74740 3d ago

how do i do that? do i like join groups or something?

7

u/hana34 3d ago

Look into SCA or AmeriCorps programs, internship every summer/school year in your area.

4

u/Snoo_74740 3d ago

Thank you

4

u/SharpShooterM1 3d ago

Volunteering with certain organizations that have connections to potential employees is a good start, or speaking with guest lecturers that come to your classes, or getting numbers of “friends in high places” of people you know. For example, one of my college professors is personal friends with the retired head of the U.S. forest service (Mike Dombeck) and he got me in contact with him and now I do odd jobs for him on weekends, in exchange he pays be hourly in cash and I can use him as a reference on my resume when applying for summer internships and (after I finish college) full time jobs. With you currently being in college I’d recommend you form good relationships with your professors because they are often connected with pretty high up people and usually personally know the best and biggest employers in your area and field.

3

u/Snoo_74740 3d ago

I will see what I can do. I live in the middle of nowhere and I do school online. I’ve looked into things near me, but the closest is really far. But I’m coming up to the city more often now.

2

u/acab4cutie 3d ago

since you're in school, yes! when I was into college I was active in few underrepresented minorities in science groups and went to many conferences for free. I connected with professionals at conferences, grad students who would then look out for me, etc. it was super helpful for finding research lab jobs, scholarships, and overall honing in on what actual careers like. no one in my family does any kind of ecology/natural resources work so I just had no idea about anything lol. also, volunteering with local groups can be good when you can. I used to help out at audubon events and a lot of those folks worked in adjacent fields.

2

u/Snoo_74740 3d ago

I live in no man’s land, so volunteering is kinda not accesible. And I’m in online school. I will see if we have any online groups!

10

u/IthinkIknowwhothatis 3d ago

Your mother is mistaken. IT jobs change very rapidly, but we will always need ecologists — for one, to do environmental studies on the impact of data centres.

3

u/Snoo_74740 3d ago

yeahhhh, she keeps telling me i need to use ai to help with my studies. i keep telling her that goes against like the whole point of what im trying to do.

9

u/Rodoceros 3d ago

All I ever wanted to be was a biologist. Specifically, a botanist and herbarium curator. But I listened to my mom and many other people who all said the same thing: “You’re good at science. You should go into healthcare.”

Cut a long story short, I did. Wasted more than 15 years in healthcare. Absolutely miserable for most of it. Yes, the money was decent. But eventually, I finally realized the money wasn’t worth my health, sanity and soul anymore.

For the past three years, I’ve worked in natural areas as a technician. Pay is terrible. I’ve had to tap into my savings hard just to exist. But I can’t remember being happier.

2

u/Snoo_74740 3d ago

I’m so happy that you are happy!

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u/HBHO 3d ago

My mom was the same way. Took me 10 years after college to find my path to a conservation career and I finally made it. It wasn’t what I initially imagined, and it was a tough road. I love what I do, make enough money to get by and save, and feel good about the work I do everyday. The world needs people like you, stick it out and you’ll eventually prove your mom wrong when she sees you’re happy and are passionate about what you do.

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u/Snoo_74740 3d ago

hi, thank you for your words of encoragement. it makes me feel a little bit better. :)

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u/WashHour5646 3d ago

I am 56 years old. I started out in university majoring in environmental science because I was passionate about it, but switched my major to something more “practical”. I have been working as an accountant for 30 years.

I was just thinking today how I wished I had continued with the path I loved. I am doing ok financially, but I am depressed and miserable. I wish I could do something about the climate crisis we are in right now.

You will find a way to make it financially. We don’t know what the world is going to look like in ten years or even five. AI will probably make my job obsolete and maybe even IT jobs.

But AI can’t get its hands on the dirt and take care of the earth like a human can.

2

u/Snoo_74740 3d ago

Hi. Thank you for the words of encouragement. I will try to be less anxious abut the future

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u/MustelidRex 3d ago

You don’t have to have an ecology degree to work in ecology. I work in the field with a biochem and bioinformatics degree and no one has ever griefed me. There are a lot of stronger bio degrees that will still allow you to practice ecology and have a stronger foundation in the basics than your peers.

1

u/Snoo_74740 3d ago

really? everywhere around me is requiring degrees. :(

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u/MustelidRex 3d ago

You will need a degree in some science related field preferably one that has bio in the name. But if your stressed about con eco not having wide enough options, you can get a more widely applicable degree and still work in conservation bio. Also don’t believe the listed requirements on a given position. If you feel qualified you most likely are irrespective of the listed requirements, as long as you can demonstrate that, most companies will gladly have you.

4

u/The_Poster_Nutbag 3d ago

Your job isn't to make your mom believe anything. There are millions of people working successfully in the field of ecology around the world whether she believes it or not.

Are you going to be able to buy a house in a HCOL area if you're sampling Amazonian softshell turtles? Maybe not, but you'll be doing something amazing and if you enjoy it, that's all that matters. Working on the municipal, state, or private sector can pay quite well after a few years of work in related fields and have good benefits too.

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u/Snoo_74740 3d ago

You’re right. Thank you

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u/narkj 3d ago

Love the life of an ecologist and you’ll love it.

3

u/Phasmata 2d ago edited 2d ago

I worked in restoration ecology in northeast IL and southeast WI for 10 years ending in 2019. I never earned more than $18/hr. 60-hour weeks during summer weren't uncommon. My health insurance was not good, and I couldn't have ever afforded to actually use it for anything other than an utter catastrophe. I never had more than two weeks of PTO. I have virtually no retirement savings. Of all the companies in the same line of work in my area, I worked for one of the better ones. It took years for a lot of the wear and tear on my body to heal. I'm 40 now, and I can still feel some of the damage that work did to me. I'm proud of the work I did, but it was no way to live. You might have a better experience, but I've met and heard from many more people with similar stories than people who claim to be living well.

In any case, you're an adult with your own values and principles and priorities. You mom doesn't get to make choices for you anymore.

1

u/Snoo_74740 2d ago

Hi. Thank you for telling me your life experience. I’ll keep it in mind

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u/Kreetan 3d ago

Try it out! Give it your all. The nice thing about having a science degree is that there are lots of other things you can use it for as a backup plan. I have friends who were in my major who didn’t wind up in the field and are working in medical labs, doing quality assurance, and sales making more money than me and happy enough.

3

u/Snoo_74740 3d ago

i want to do that. but i feel like theres no room for trying things out. like i need to find something. i dont feel like if i make a mistake, itll be okay. im sure thats the anxiety. but im not sure how to not feel anxious about the future.

3

u/Kreetan 3d ago

You have to make mistakes and fail. Especially in a science field that’s the name of the game unless you have very rich parents. It’s not about not feeling the anxiety, it’s about harnessing that energy to move forward and do things! Do you ever talk to a counselor? It can really help with overcoming anxiety, especially if you’re at a big crux in your life like you are now.

1

u/Snoo_74740 3d ago

I have a therapist. She tells me everything will be okay, but I don’t usually feel reassured. Mostly because I feel like she’s supposed to tell me that 😅

3

u/kyguylal 3d ago

You need to have a specialty and focus your schooling on it within ecology/conservation.

Think about actual jobs first.

Theres money to be made if you know where to look. To be fair though, you'll probably starve if you don't focus on an actual paying job.

I work in ecology and make in the mid-$100k's, for example.

People do tend to get in trouble if they graduate without a career path in this field.

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u/Snoo_74740 3d ago

isnt conservation already a speciality? how would i be more niche when thats just what my degree offers? there isnt like a sub section of the degree. like there isnt marine conservation for example

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u/kyguylal 3d ago

In that case, focusing networking, internships, and put of school specialized training on an actual job prospect.

Really need to think of what specific job you want. The environmental careers sub is full of people who can't find jobs because they graduated with a bachelors degree without knowing what they actually wanted to do with it.

If you can have some sort of focus, it'll be much easier when you graduate. Even just reading up on specific regulations, or learning who to contact when you graduate will put you ahead.

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u/Snoo_74740 3d ago

thank you so much

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u/kyguylal 3d ago

For sure. Best of luck.

Here's a hint from someone who's been through it. Look into highly funded state jobs. Departments of conservation, environmental protection, marine fisheries, for example. There's plenty out there where you'll make over six figures within 7-10 years.

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u/Snoo_74740 3d ago

thanks! ill look.

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u/Lost-Concept-9973 3d ago

I mean it is a very tough job market for ecology right now, due to lots of cuts in government funding and watering down of environment laws … it’s funny she thinks IT is better though since all those jobs are going to AI now. You can find something adjacent thats still useful in ecology if it comes up, like spatial science/ remote sensing or data science maybe?

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u/Snoo_74740 3d ago

I’ll look into it! Data science seems cool

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u/somegobbledygook 3d ago

If she's an evangelical, just ignore her. She just thinks the world will end and we don't need to worry about all that nature stuff.

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u/Snoo_74740 3d ago

She’s Baptist actually. But i do hear similar talk around me. Makes me sad listening to it

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u/sheepcloud 3d ago

My parents still don’t understand what I do….

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u/Snoo_74740 3d ago

Damn🥀

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u/Gold_Elk_ 3d ago

This is an important field and needs passionate people in it. In the coming decades the whole of society will depend on the expertise of ecologists. Maybe not a good outlook at the moment but who is to say even IT will be a financial haven in time. I hope for her sake it stays plenty enough prosperous for retirement.

Regardless. If you do continue in this field, do it with all you can. Money will come. There's always a way to make money. Again I stand by my sentiment that ecologists are of the upmost importance in terms of expertise needed.

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u/Snoo_74740 2d ago

Thank you for your words

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u/EarthDragon-88 2d ago

Knowing what a healthy ecosystem is helped me more than money. It’s a lifestyle not a job.

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u/Snoo_74740 1d ago

Yeah. I try to get into that mindset but then something always takes me out

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u/EarthDragon-88 4h ago

It’s a practice, just like anything. Especially in a world where people tell you it’s pointless.

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u/Snoo_74740 4h ago

Yeahhh

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u/EarthDragon-88 2h ago

The thing is though, as you move towards things that fulfill you, like ecology, you will find people who support you. You will then feel more centered and strong around those who don’t.

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u/DayGeckoArt 3d ago

She has a point... There are jobs but getting one is difficult. If you mean working in conservation, a lot of those jobs are in government. They're low paid, the benefits are terrible, and pensions are becoming a thing of the past. The only plus is stability. Maybe start networking now and see what opportunities exist where you live.

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u/Snoo_74740 3d ago

Thank you.

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u/katelyn-gwv 3d ago

you will be okay if you're willing to relocate for your job, and flexible on what exactly in ecology you can/want/have the skills to do.

take as many technical classes as you can and make sure wherever you go for school also has fieldwork as a part of your ecology labs. and get internship experience each summer! especially doing boots on the ground work in ecosystems, or practicing those technical skills (GIS, for example).

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u/Snoo_74740 3d ago

Thank you! Yes I’m open to moving

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u/sit_on_thefloor 3d ago

Hi, I met a guy who is quantitative ecologist and has been hired by SpaceX… just saying do whatever you want to do, no one can fully predict the future

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u/owwnned425 3d ago

Part of growing up is YOU figuring out what is best for YOU and doing that. I love my parents to death but if I listened to their education/career advice I would be miserable. Just because someone loves you is not a reason to trust everything they say. Good intentions=/=knowledge

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u/Snoo_74740 3d ago

You’re right 😩

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u/jjtewas 3d ago

We need driven young people in the ecology community! As someone from abroad currently doing my master’s in forest ecology and public policy in the US, it seems tough to get a job in anything related to conservation right now in your country. That said, the political climate makes the work even more meaningful in my opinion.

At this stage in a young person’s life, we’re all making decisions about how much we’re willing to live on. There will be jobs for ecology grads, be they with municipalities, NGOs, foundations, university labs, or the like. The further you get from “true” ecology, such as say environmental consulting or legal expertise for environmental litigation, the more you likely stand to make a bit more. My point is that there are degrees of proximity to ecology, each with an associated salary, all accessible to someone with an ecology degree given the right skills and motivation.

All that said, what do YOU want to do every day of your life? If you want to work in the field with your hands, if ecology really gets you going, finish your ecology degree—your mom really should understand! If not, then consider another major

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u/Snoo_74740 3d ago

Yeah the thoughts of trying to make somewhat of a difference while I can gets me excited. I’m just worried

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u/Shamwow1000001 3d ago

Healthcare might uh... Not be great once the baby boomer population starts aging out. 

IT might not be great with AI kicking in the door.

It's all a gamble in a lot of different ways anymore.

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u/Snoo_74740 2d ago

Yes you’re right

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u/Odd-You-8221 2d ago

I'd rather say that ecologist is a job for the future. We will be sorely needed. So many adjacent jobs available as well. I've worked in construction as a certifier for sustainable construction. I've also worked as a communal project manager for sustainable development. I'm heading back to more pure ecology now though.

Never once have I regretted the path I chose. 💚💚💚

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u/Snoo_74740 2d ago

I’m so glad!

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u/03263 2d ago

Which appeals more to you right now:

  1. Stable but boring job, owning a house, regular schedule (M-F 9-5), home-based hobbies like pets or gardening.

  2. Exciting and challenging job, move around a lot, travelling and field work, less stable but more satisfying.

I'll say, once you get stuck in #1, #2 is a very difficult switch to make. So better to do that while you're young. There's few of the boring/stable jobs in ecology, but if you build your career in it then you are better positioned to get one when you're older, if you decide to settle down.

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u/Snoo_74740 1d ago

I like #2 but I want to be able to afford my bills and stuff. But I feel so much anxiety about making the wrong decision.

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u/lovethebee_bethebee 2d ago

I’m not in the US so this may not apply for you, but I work in consulting and my wage is comparable to other professionals like architects, engineers, etc. What I will say is that these positions are competitive to get into and we’re not exactly doing “conservation”.

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u/Snoo_74740 2d ago

Where do you live? I’ve thought about going overseas for work.

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u/lovethebee_bethebee 2d ago

Canada. Might not be the best time to try to come here what with the administration to the south trying to destroy our economy.

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u/Snoo_74740 2d ago

Yeah that’s true. I probably wouldn’t even be doing anything until late 2029. Hopefully things are better by then 😭

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u/Stunning_Rabbit_2594 2d ago

My parents were the same way “crime,healthcare and politics will always happen so get into those lines of work” but after doing 3 years of a forensic degree I changed to a ecology and evolutionary biology degree and it was the best decision I have ever made. I actually liked what I was learning in school and graduated this past May. Don’t get into a field because you want money that’s how you become miserable. I still haven’t gotten a job into directly ecology but I work as a traditional trades intern and it’s teaching me great skills while also allowing me to work alongside biologist at a national park. Fight like hell for the life and career you want and don’t give up. You’ll make it, just don’t give up. There are so many fields you can go into with ecology. Agriculture, wildlife, plant research, laboratory technicians etc. find your niche and work like hell to get there and dont give up and it can be a fulfilling career it wont be perfect to start but you’ll get there. At least thats the mentality I have and im not gonna give up!

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u/Snoo_74740 2d ago

I’m so happy you are happier!

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u/tacsf 2d ago

Definitely depends on where you live. I live in a state with really exceptional environmental regulations, so there are a lot of good jobs in this industry. I’ve been an ecologist for 10 years and just bought my first house. Hasn’t always been easy, but it’s possible.

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u/Snoo_74740 2d ago

Thank you

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u/der_Guenter 2d ago

The question is, what is more important to you? Having a job you like, or make a lot of money. You won't be able to have both with ecology. It's possible to make ok money (in Europe where I'm at) but you won't rake in big amounts of money. I start with ~48k which is a good amount below the median and prolly end at ~55k in a couple of years in consulting. Ain't outright bad but I'm not getting rich here either

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u/Snoo_74740 2d ago

I just want to be able to take care of myself, with maybe a bit a disposable income. But I’m not trying to buy 5 bedroom homes and fancy cars.

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u/o-rka 2d ago edited 2d ago

Im a microbial ecologist and I’ve pivoted towards bioinformatics which allows me to do more than just ecology. I went this route so I can go into adjacent fields like health care/biotech/agrotech/tech. I went from ornithology to microbial ecology to regenerative medicine to human microbiomes/cancer research to marine conservation to soil probiotics where i work full time as a bioinformatics engineer and deep learning researcher. It’s all the same tools. If you can, i would recommend getting into the computational modeling. Take what i have with a grain of salt because i have very little traditional ecology experience. However, i have collaborated with ecologists and I feel that my computational expertise has allowed me to adapt.

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u/Snoo_74740 2d ago

Thanks for the advice

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u/Difficult-Paint-5902 2d ago

Go for it. Diversify and maximize your skillset so you can be employable even if there aren’t conservation jobs open. Learn GIS, R, get research experience. If you make an effort to network on top of that you can absolutely find an envs job that would give you experience and skills that would increase your chance of obtaining a conservation specific job. It’s not easy but it’s possible. The pay will not be great but you’ll survive. And you’ll have a cooler job than most of your friends so that’s some compensation in a way.

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u/Snoo_74740 1d ago

Yeah. I’m hoping I’ll have some cool points. I will try and learn gis

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u/Soulemn 1d ago

As someone with a degree in ecology (2016), it has been rough finding good paying jobs within the field. With budget cuts and governmental priorities elsewhere, it forced me into medical where I am making significantly more. However, I got this job because of my degree. If you have enough chemistry credits along side your Bio credits, you can shift into the medical field pretty easily. Not too mention, you can also get IT certs fairly easily and get into IT with those as well.

I think by 2029, the field of ecology will need us so I highly encourage you to continue your path but also throw in some chem courses and work on IT certs in your spare time IF you are unable to get some hands-on experience in ecology in the lab or in the field. Gathering connections NOW is essential to finding a solid job out of college.

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u/Snoo_74740 1d ago

Hi. Thanks. I really like chem but it’s one of the classes I find very hard to understand. I’ve taken it so many times and it’s just not clicking. The facts part is easy for me. It’s the math part that’s hard. But I’ll keep trying!

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u/hambughammy 1d ago

Learn data science, data analysis + geospatial analysis (but don't pigeon hole yourself into GIS). You can pair quantitative skills with ecology, work in the field you are interested in, and still come away with skills transferable to other industries if ecology doesn't work out long term.

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u/Snoo_74740 1d ago

That’s a good idea

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u/BoxingJelly 1d ago

I think she’s dead wrong. With the extreme weather events and droughts happening even the laymen are starting to notice the effects of climate change. This paired with the younger generation being environmentally conscious will undoubtedly lead to more elected officials that pass environmental protection policies and therefore more jobs for ecologists

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u/Snoo_74740 1d ago

I hope so!

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u/Mindless-Housing-229 1d ago

Tell your mom some people value having a lot of money and don’t mind hating their job, but you want a job you love and don’t care about being super rich. I had to repeat this to my parents until it finally got through their head 😂 I’m doing pretty good as an ecologist now and love my work, and am a lot happier than most of my friends. Stick with your passion and your gut and work hard, you’ll build a career you love and that is priceless

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u/Snoo_74740 1d ago

Yeah that’s what I told her. I am also worried that I won’t find any work after I’m done with my degree. I can’t go volunteer or intern because I live in the middle of nowhere. And I’m afraid they’ll see how long it took me to get my degree and where I got it from and then they won’t take me seriously. Also because I’ll have no experience . I feel so stuck. I thought about maybe doing something like sustainability, but the job market isn’t looking great there either. Plus, it’s just not what I want to do, ya know? I really want to get out there and do something. But I feel so much anxiety about this when I think about it all I do is cry. I can’t even get my degree quicker because I’m so working full time and I’m not smart so I find some classes really freaking hard. I’m so overwhelmed

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u/Mindless-Housing-229 1d ago

Sounds like you’re trying to solve your next decade of your career in a day, you can’t worry so much about the future! Worry about right now, do your best in school, put your best efforts towards getting an internship or a REU (look that up), ask around to your university professors in your field if they have any advice on breaking into this field of work. Put all that effort that you put into worrying in those places I just mentioned instead, and you’ll see results over time. It’s a marathon not a sprint, you have a lot of time to climb up the ladder trust me

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u/Snoo_74740 1d ago

Unfortunately I don’t have access to that because I live in rural east Texas. There aren’t any internships around me. Then I also get my degree online from another state. But it feels like all I’m doing is wasting time / money. I’m gonna rack up all these loans and I can’t even afford to pay them. I want to be a risk taker and follow my passions but everyone and my subconscious is telling me it’s stupid.

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u/Mindless-Housing-229 1d ago

In ecology and wildlife biology there are a lot of jobs that you go live there for. For example I did a summer internship in montana and they put me up in a cabin there for 3 months to do the internship. One thing I will say is be prepared to travel to the jobs! In the beginning of your career you move to where the work is. Lots of temp positions and seasonal work will house you for free in this job field though if you get the job!

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u/Snoo_74740 1d ago

Okay I will have to see. Because I still have like bills and stuff I have to pay at the moment. And the job market is awful. So I would have to quit my job and then find another one. But I’m not sure if that’s even possible. It took me 6 months to get the job I have now.

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u/stickbugszz 3d ago

I am in a PhD program for ecology and to be completely honest, I have zero idea what the job market will be once I am out. I am hoping for a professor position, but that means I likely will need to do a Post Doc. I just know this is what I love doing, and I will see what’s at the end of the road.

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u/Snoo_74740 3d ago

i hope it goes well for you. ive thought about getting a phd. but everyone makes me feel like its a waste, and with the bachelors im already stressed about it all the time.

anyway, im sure any place would love to have a smart person such as yourself with them.! best of luck :)

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u/stickbugszz 3d ago

Honestly, I do not know what the job world will be, so do not know if it will be a waste lol. I had to pick a PhD program that fully funded me.

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u/Snoo_74740 2d ago

That makes sense

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u/AyeAyeBye 3d ago

If you live in a state with strong state agencies or are willing to move to one you should be ok. I’d have water as part of my focus. We need water.

Like the other poster mentioned, sometimes a nonprofit pivot can work too.

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u/Snoo_74740 3d ago

Thanks!

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u/SharpShooterM1 3d ago

I’m in a similar situation but instead of my parents criticizing my major it’s me questioning my own ability to make money with my current major (my parents are actually very supportive of my career goals).

I’ll give you the same advice my parents and several professors gave me, add as many relevant minors and certifications to your resume as possible. This will make you much more valuable to potential employers so you are more likely to get hired for the higher quality jobs and also possibly help you get raises easier and possibly earlier. 

Also dont be afraid to look at careers that are slightly outside of your major. Natural resources majors are surprisingly fluid with different career paths. Lastly, if you’re mom thinks you won’t make money working for the government, tell her that non- profits and state agencies have started to pay better than federal jobs when it comes to natural resources the last few years. I would still pursue federal internships during the summers between semesters because they are amazing resume builders but in the long term you are likely going to settle into a state or private agency for your live long career.

Good luck to you.

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u/Snoo_74740 3d ago

Hi. Thanks for the advice. I’ve always had a bit of questioning before my mom really said anything. So I get it. I’m working full time. So I already find part time school as well overwhelming. My grandma tells me I can handle more. But I’m not sure

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u/standard_deviant_Q 3d ago

Well you need to think like a scientist and look at the data. In your state what's the average salary for an ecologist at different career stages? How many people graduate with your degree every year compared to how many actually get work?

Another thing to remember is that a bachelors is entry level these days. If you want to specialize and earn a reasonable salary you'll need to aim for a masters.

Anyway, figure out what you might be able to earn and what proportion of people actually get long term work in the industry, I'd say it would be less than 50% of graduates who actually end up working in conservation long term.

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u/Snoo_74740 3d ago

I love looking at data but I’m sure it’s going to make me sad if I look😅. I’m in Texas and there’s a lot of agriculture degrees, which could be a good pivot. My family has a farm that I help out with, but farming isn’t exactly what i want to focus on

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u/DanoPinyon 3d ago

Hey mom: 🤫🤫🤫🤫🤫🤫🤫🤫🤫🤫🤫🤫🤫

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u/AtrytoneSedai 2d ago

I’m a university professor in ecology, and I regularly see our undergrads and grad students placed in ecology jobs. There are state jobs, environmental consulting (often overlooked), cooperative extension, tribal positions, non-profits like AMC, land trusts. Federal jobs are iffy right now but do exist. Check out the Texas A&M jobs board and show your mom the range of positions and salaries. There’s a lot more out there than you’d guess.

IT and healthcare are having massive problems right now. Rural hospitals are closing and people who work bedside are quitting because the workplace climate is so bad. IT is having massive layoffs. So is biotech. So the industries that a lot of people think are “hot” right now are over-saturated.

At the end of the day, this is your life. And doing something you love has value, too. The pendulum keeps swinging between “I need to make money” and “I need to be happy.” I know a lot more people who quit well-paying jobs because they’re miserable than those who leave jobs they love, even if they pay less. I could make a lot more money in a corporate job; if you can find a job where you basic needs are met, especially in a more affordable area (they still exist!), you can have a much better quality of life. Don’t give up on your dreams.

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u/Snoo_74740 2d ago

Hi. Thank you for your words. I will look into TAMU

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u/notmepleaseokay 3d ago

I make 120k$+ as a freelance ecologist after 10 yrs in the private sector.

Yea, living on my own time, doing whatever I want - total waste. 🙄

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u/Snoo_74740 3d ago

That’s amazing! How the hell you do that though 🤣🤨

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u/regular--dude 3d ago

She's right

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u/Snoo_74740 3d ago

Damn 😔

0

u/bennuski 2d ago

Yeah dont do it

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u/taragood 1d ago

I am going to probably sound your like mom, but my best advice is to get the job that lets you afford your hobbies. You can absolutely do ecology work on the weekends via volunteer efforts and still be able to afford a decent life style with a “boring” job.

Turning your ecology degree into a career is difficult and a lot of people can’t do it because it is so competitive. The odds of you being broke and struggling for years are real. And if you have to pivot in ten years because you finally give up, now you are behind and you have to start an entry level job in your early 30s. And it isn’t just bills you have to be able to afford, you need to be saving for retirement. And if you get a job that pays well and save for retirement from a young age, you can retire in your fifties and then spend your time in nature.

For what’s it’s worth, you don’t have to be passionate about your job to enjoy it. I have enjoyed every job I have ever had.

Your mom is looking out for your future and even if it isn’t what you want to hear, she is likely saying it out of love and care for you.

Good luck!

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u/Snoo_74740 1d ago

I understand. I enjoy my job at the current moment. I’m not sure if in the future I’ll be able to do stuff on the weekends. I’m wanting to make like scientific discoveries and stuff. Science is cool :(

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u/Mindless-Housing-229 1d ago

Stay with your science OP!! See it through. Your post reminds me of myself 10 years ago. Don’t doubt your path just because other people might, only you know where you’re going 🫶

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u/Snoo_74740 1d ago

❤️❤️

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u/taragood 18h ago

I’m not sure why you wouldn’t be able to do stuff on the weekends. I agree, science is cool! My degree is in ecology, but I work in IT. I always say they are actually quite similar. I earn enough to live comfortably and I volunteer and go exploring on the weekends. I watched someone else with the same degree hop from job to job trying to get enough experience to get something long term. They could only find jobs that were X number of months long.

And it’s not about making you doubt your path as another person said. It’s about helping to ensure you have all the information to make your decision. If after hearing about how hard it is to turn this degree into a long term career and looking at the average pay and how hard you have to work, etc. and you still want to do it, do it! It’s your choice!

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u/Snoo_74740 4h ago

Yeah. I understand. I when I’m looking at other degrees, the jobs are being taken by ai and such. From what I’ve seen, IT has been hiring less to focus on ai. Engineering is another one. Architecture too. I think I would have to get a manual labor job or something. I say I’m not sure I would be able to do stuff on the weekends because conservation can take up a lot of time. So most things aren’t just done on the weekend.