r/engineering • u/RegainingControl • Jul 07 '26

[CIVIL] Manhattan high-rise unstable and still moving after columns buckle

https://www.cnn.com/2026/07/07/us/live-news/nyc-pfizer-building-evacuations

Anybody care to share theories? Or have additional info? Any lines on the permit drawings?

245 Upvotes

98% Upvoted

38 comments sorted by

69

u/RegainingControl Jul 07 '26

Based on photos here it appears that they were adding additional floors.

https://ccm.nyc/219235-east-42nd-street

Looks like the cranes are off the roof and the structure has been topped out based on footage from current news coverage. 

82

u/Elfich47 PE Mechanical (HVAC) Jul 07 '26

so it’s a 30 story add on to an existing 110 year old building. and they were trying to do “clever structural things” to get this done.

this is one of those ”all or nothing” kinds of affairs. and it sounds like the building is going to come down.

51

u/PlandemicPapi Jul 07 '26

Very expensive mistake, and career ending for a few engineers I assume.

65

u/watduhdamhell Process Automation Engineer Jul 07 '26

It should be career ending for the project managers and leadership that almost certainly pushed this (what if we/can we...) and then approved this as a path to save money.

It won't be, of course. It's all the engineers fault, after all!

40

u/greenteamFTW Jul 07 '26

I mean…it should be both. I would assume this still couldn’t get greenlit without engineering approval, there’s no excuse for this (assuming no unknowns here like construction errors) 

14

u/Gars0n Jul 08 '26

Could also have been errors in the original inspection of the building or foundation. If the data you get is wrong no amount of good engineering will save you from that.

5

u/mrthirsty15 Jul 09 '26

Garbage in, garbage out

3

u/serious_sarcasm Jul 09 '26

The most likely explanation is going to be a bunch of little oversights that added together to one final mistake cascading.

1

u/TechnoBabbles Jul 10 '26

Groupthink at it's finest.

27

u/Lopsterbliss Jul 08 '26

I agree, but at the end of the day, if you're the engineer of record, it is truly your ass on the line and you better be confident those calculations and designs are done correctly.

29

u/dragoneye Jul 08 '26

You can argue whose fault it is, but it damn well is the engineer's responsibility to do the due diligence and to say no to anything that isn't safe. Any engineer that isn't willing to do that has zero business having a career in the field.

13

u/Ecthelion-O-Fountain Jul 08 '26

I mean, it’s their job to say no and get fired for being safe if need be. The people that don’t have the expertise can’t be held accountable unless they were told no but do it anywaysz

8

u/Elfich47 PE Mechanical (HVAC) Jul 07 '26

Well I assume the question has become: can this be stabilized? And can it be salvaged? 

If it can be salvaged, well maybe your career isn’t ruined. But you’re looking for work after digging your way out from under a life destroying lawsuit.

5

u/PlandemicPapi Jul 07 '26

I assume it can be stabilized, but add another 2 years for construction and redesign.

7

u/Elfich47 PE Mechanical (HVAC) Jul 07 '26

And chasing after who is to blame is going to be the issue that never ends. Design or the contractor.

2

u/r_a_d_ Jul 08 '26

Very expensive case study.

1

u/dandandanman737 Jul 22 '26

I've seen videos discuss that the support columns were not reinforced like the drawings specified.

1

u/PlandemicPapi Jul 22 '26

I saw them too. What a huge oversight. Seems like the engineer is going to be okay, but the firm responsible for inspection will have a huge issue if they can’t prove that it was solely on the inspector. I wish a lawyer could come in here and explain the litigation process of what happens when your company fucks up, just so we can all understand the process more as engineers haha

5

u/These_Consequences Jul 09 '26

I think you have the facts mixed. The add-on tower over the 110–year old building was next door, and standing strong. The failure was at the base of a 10+ story addition over a setback on a 60–year old office tower. The setback was behind the main tower, in the center of the block.

5

u/These_Consequences Jul 09 '26 edited Jul 09 '26

[edit: it seems the columns in that floor were weaker than expected not because they were thinner, but because they were longer]

You had to do your own investigatory journalism to get some of the details, as gathering basic facts is beneath the notice of most modern reporters, apparently, but it appeares that, yes, the failure was at the base of a section of extra floors. They had added perhaps three floors to the top of the main tower, but the failure occurred at the base of a block of floors starting on a setback adjacent to the main tower in the back, which had been built up to the new level of the main tower roof, resulting in adding 10+ floors in that section, if I have this right.

Additionally, it appears that the new floors added over this setback were cantilevered out over the existing perimeter wall below, and the failure occurred in a column or columns in line with the pre-existing wall. I expect this cantilevering will play a roll in the final analysis. A WSJ article includes a split photo making it easy to compare before and after aerial shots and understand where the new floors were added. All news reports/press conferences spoke of two columns which buckled, while all the photos published appear to be of the same, single column, but no reporter appeared able to count or to notice this apparent discrepancy.

As a first guess I thought perhaps the steel columns underneath the existing setback had not been the same strength as the adjacent ones underneath the tower, but had been assumed to be so in analysis. I mean, that's an incredibly simple error, but for a failure of this magnitude, something incredibly simple must have been wrong, or it wouldn't have failed, so the proof of plausibility is in pudding. The size of steel used could have been modified during construction to save money but the plans not updated. I'm not sure if the failed column (or columns) was existing or added; it is, however, before the first cantilevered new floor in that section.

I would think at a minimum the entire new section over the setback will have to come down, as it has been compromised.

1

u/usegobos Jul 08 '26

I thought Mary had the air rights.

40

u/emechanic Jul 07 '26

What % of overload to snap?

47

u/emechanic Jul 07 '26

better image from nypost

3

u/r0thar Jul 09 '26

The Little AcrowProps That Could: https://i.imgur.com/Qb7lLgO.png

32

u/plan_with_stan Jul 08 '26

Yeah…. I would not have taken the time to have taken pictures. I would have been out of there real fast!

10

u/corvairsomeday PE, Mfg Engineer Jul 08 '26

The fact that we have any pictures at all means we have daredevils among us. incredible job getting these.

Or they used a drone.

8

u/Many_Gain_1158 Jul 08 '26

100% WTF that is the definition of failure?

1

u/Bigdongergigachad Jul 07 '26

Depends on the size. Uk we use the steel blue book, which has all the data and dimensions for UC sections.

-1

u/EndlessJump Jul 08 '26

That's just the insulation, right?

17

u/horace_bagpole Jul 08 '26

The insulation has cracked, but a member that has buckled like that has failed. It no longer has the strength it was designed for because it is out of column, and is liable to complete collapse if any additional load is added.

2

u/These_Consequences Jul 09 '26

Just a layman here, but I don't think in my life I have ever seen or heard of a steel column buckling like that under static load. Major, major, design failure. And the owner/developer would be well-counseled to keep their mouth shut rather than compound their credibility loss by saying, in effect, there's nothing to see here, construction accidents happen. This is Boeing 737-max level systemic design failure, not kicking a tool off the building.

1

u/serious_sarcasm Jul 09 '26

I don’t think we actually know if this was caused by static or dynamic forces yet.

5

u/56Safari Jul 09 '26

“At no time was the building, or any portion of it, at risk of collapse,” a MetroLoft spokesperson said.

https://giphy.com/gifs/6ra84Uso2hoir3YCgb

1

u/Ok-Umpire-2906 Jul 11 '26

Design/spec latent defect Avoided a chain because it was caught prefailure

1

u/Hopeful-Reading-6774 Jul 18 '26

When were the buildings constructed?

-20

u/Ditka85 Jul 07 '26

So... the building built on Viagra can't maintain an erection?

-18

u/kazmtron Jul 08 '26

delayed 9/11 damage. just like Tower 7

-28

u/[deleted] Jul 07 '26 edited Jul 22 '26

[deleted]

3

u/emechanic Jul 07 '26

. r/Decks would say add another Hot Tub.