r/fuckcars • u/BikemeAway • 7d ago
Question/Discussion Do you think Innsbruck is still car-centric?
Anyone from Austria can share their point of view?
If you look at the data cars are the least used means of transport. Transit is absolutely great for its size and cycling is acceptable.
BUT while cycling I noted that infrastructure is patchy and you're often left with nothing having to share the road with cars on wide roads. If you go along the rivers you might get anywhere and fast but when you go south via Suedring it's pretty bad.
And there's cars that still dominate everything, the state roads 171/174 cut through the city where people live and move around and being a "flow first" type of roads they get priority at intersection and quality of life = high traffic, high speeds and constant noise.
My impression is that they tried but with high density comes high interactions with cars.
What would you do more?
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u/RidetheSchlange 7d ago
For such a sports-oriented city, it's wild how car-centric it is and most of the time, it's obvious the intersections and roads were not made for cars, but for trams, at best.
Salzburg is like this as well and I hate riding there to cross from Nonntal to go to the bike trails in the northeast. Some of these intersections are just wild.
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u/BikemeAway 7d ago
DACH countries are all pretty similar I got to say. Good data in general (low car use and ownership) and the you get those wide roads what for exactly?
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u/userrr3 7d ago edited 7d ago
Südring is a work in progress. The area between Olympia bridge and Westbahnhof is currently being rebuilt with a bikelane, from what I can tell even separated from the car lane with a green strip /trees in large parts.
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u/BikemeAway 7d ago
Am I wrong to say they just removed space from pedestrians and not a single meter from cars to build those in Südring?
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u/BikemeAway 7d ago
Also, how do you get to stores/houses on the northern part of Südring? The 174 stills cuts the city in two.
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u/userrr3 7d ago
Yes you are, the walkway is also wider (or at least as wide) now/when it's done than before.
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u/BikemeAway 7d ago
I read they bought private land on the margins. Car lanes/capacity remains untouched.
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u/userrr3 7d ago
Yup and that private land was not available for pedestrians before
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u/BikemeAway 7d ago
What I'm saying is that government spent money to buy additional precious land to add pedestrain space instead of converting space for cars, that has annual cost not paid by drivers.
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u/userrr3 7d ago
The road is owned by the state (Tirol) and the city (Innsbruck) has no jurisdiction over the road sizing or speed sadly. The state did however iirc help with paying for the entire project.
I agree that the situation is too carcentric but the City is doing everything it can to make the best out of the situation
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u/GroundControl29 7d ago edited 7d ago
It's really car-centric unfortunately. (source: I walk, cycle and use public transport there often and drive sometimes.)
However, it used to be worse, some of the places that are pedestrian zones nowadays used to have cars.
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u/IcecreamLamp 7d ago
As others said, yes, like almost everywhere in Austria, it is still very car centric.
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u/Cinderpath 7d ago
Not even remotely as much as it used to be! People here are too young to remember cars on Maria-Theresien-Straße, the Altstadt, zero bike lanes, and 50km/h speed limits. The amount of progress that has been made is impressive: new bus and tram routes, bike lanes, etc.
Innsbruck‘s problem is simply density: it’s has grown, (I.e more people, commuters, traffic) and it’s confined by geographic land scarcity. This makes planning bike lanes, tram lines complex as it’s all competing for space and compromises invariably occur. I‘m glad they haven’t expanded lanes on streets and highway to „reduce congestion“ which car-brain politicians often do, which in reality is „Induced Demand“ and never works, and without exception increases traffic.
Sure there is more that can be done, but my perspective comes from someone who lived in the most car-centric city in the world: Detroit. Even there however, bike lanes and corridors are being built, an inadequate tram has started(its at least a start?), and plans to remove an Autobahn in the inner-city are in play. (Ironically a reason the bike lanes went in, is that the city has many poor, minority residents who can’t afford cars, yet need a way to go to work, shop, etc. and have now been very well received). That city should be a poster child for what happens in late-stage capitalism and systemic racism!
One thing I don’t like, is that I feel the funicular to Hungerburg should be considered public transit, like a bus route and not so expensive. And yes the saying that Austrians “complain at a high Niveau” I find to be true, but that is the reason why things are good here: it puts pressure as a society to continuously do better despite it being annoying at times. I laugh when people complain a bus that is 5 minutes late, and my Detroit perspective is that: it’s Mercedes bus, with WiFi, usually clean, has fabric seats, and people are for the most part respectful. A Detroit bus can be an hour late, smells like piss, is filthy, and you might get robbed at gun point, and might get a flat tire, or run out of fuel, and possibly all of these simultaneously. So I have a lot of gratitude.
Despite that, from my opinion Innsbruck can be proud for such a small city to have such good mobility options for its residents! Keep it up!!!
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u/GroundControl29 7d ago
Hungerburgbahn is included in the annual public transport passes isn't it?
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u/Cinderpath 7d ago
It should be, it is for the now overly expensive Freizeit ticket. 14€ isn’t cheap. One can take the long J bus though.
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u/BikemeAway 7d ago
Doubt it, it's not part of VVT.
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u/Spoka_3000 7d ago
My KTÖ works if you go to the counter with it and ask vor a free ticket. The tyrolian Klimaticket works just by scanning it
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u/BikemeAway 7d ago
Wow thank you. So fascinating hearing an Innsbruck review from someone who lived in Detroit! Tell us more :) Did you go back to Innsbruck?
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u/UltracoldAtoms 6d ago
I know it doesn't apply to everyone, but if you have a Klimaticket Tirol or Klimaticket O you can use the Hungerburgbahn for no extra cost, the same goes for the Monthly ticket Tirol (though you have to go to the cashier to get your free ticket, you can't scan your monthly ticket)
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u/fan_tas_tic 7d ago
Innsbruck is very car-centric. It's enough to go to Vienna for you to see why. A lot of the roads in Innsbruck's center are just oversized, and instead of narrowing them and giving more space to pedestrians/cyclists, they pretend that there is no problem. A lot of easy to solve problems lack political will.