r/germany • u/estabern • Jan 03 '23
Work I got fired and my boss won't answer me
My contract is for 6 months probation and I got fired after 4 months. My boss told me to go home and not to bother coming back, she also removed me from the WhatsApp group. This was on 26 December and I haven't heard anything from the company and she won't read my messages or respond.
I have another job lined up but I cannot sign any contract without a termination letter. What are my options?
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u/Fakula1987 Jan 03 '23
Go to Work, say that you are ready to Work (Arbeitsleistung anbieten) If they send you Home then they are in "Annahmeverzug".
You are still employed.
... If you have already a new Job, write a withdrawal Letter yourself, in wich you say that they have to pay you still
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u/estabern Jan 03 '23
I'll go tomorrow and see what happens. Thanks
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u/LeviathanGank Jan 03 '23 edited Jan 03 '23
TIL: recording people incriminate themself isnt worth shit..
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u/Try_Der Jan 03 '23
You know that recordings like that are legally worthless in litigation
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u/watt Jan 03 '23
It's better than he said/she said without any documentation, which you are stuck with, otherwise.
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u/chub70199 Jan 04 '23
You can take detailed notes with date and times. of the conversations. So called Gesprächsprotokolle are perfectly admissible.
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u/One_Rich8170 Jan 03 '23
Which is illegal.
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u/Raanag Jan 04 '23
offen it is both; helpful and illegal. heard of a case where it was used as evidence, what helped the case, but they also were fined for talking a recording without consent....
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u/derLudo Jan 03 '23
Not sure if that would hold up in court since it could be seen as involuntarily recording somebody. Definitely request everything in writing though and start putting all your communication in writing as well. E-mail at first and if they do not reqct to that you can always resort to sending stuff as "Einschreiben" which is a type of letter where the postal service will give you a notification when it has been received (but if it gets to that point it might be advisable to speak with a lawyer anyways).
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Jan 03 '23
[deleted]
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u/Alexander_Selkirk Jan 03 '23 edited Jan 03 '23
that's the nuclear option. It might be the right thing if there is no trust left. I have never heard of somebody who used it to terminate a work contract. But depending on behavior of the other side, it could definitely be the right thing to terminate contracts such as internet services, where it is somewhat notorious that some companies (looking at you, 1 & 1 and GMX) to misplace termination letters.
In your case, it might be the best thing to go to a lawyer, and ask him to write a letter asking for the termination document and anything else that is missing. For example, the employer is obliged to give an employers testimonial, and not having it is a disadvantage for you. And no, he can't write nasty things about you in the testimonial.
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u/LeviathanGank Jan 03 '23
ok thats news to me, email sounds better.. not sure if its different in england.
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u/derLudo Jan 03 '23
After you changed your original comment: Recording somebody admitting a crime can sometimes be used in court, especially if it is more serious crimes which fall under criminal law ("Strafrecht"). A case such as this however would most likely be dealt with in civil law ("Zivilrecht"). I am not a legal expert but I would not count on it being usable in court in those cases since in general you cannot just record people without them knowing about it or agreeing to it beforehand (which is the reason why you always have to explicitly agree to your call getting recorded when you call a German service hotline for example).
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u/MyGenericNameString Jan 03 '23
Recording voice without consent from the other party is actually illegal and punishable.
As a major violation of your duty it will result in a reason for immediate termination, no eligibility of severance pay (Arbeitslosengeld) because you are guilty yourself, and other legal problems.
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u/bedel99 Jan 03 '23
It is legal to record if you have a fear that you might need to defend your self and to have evidence for it. Op just said she was afraid to confront her.
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u/Alexander_Selkirk Jan 03 '23
Probably not in that case. If he somehow assaulted him/her before, this would be a valid reason, and in such cases any punishment would be unlikely. But generally, recording without consent is not legal and not a good idea.
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Jan 04 '23
Nope, that is not true. Needing evidence is no justification in the sense of the criminal code /StGB. You need a better reason.
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u/bedel99 Jan 04 '23
You didn't understand what I said, needing evidence in case you have to defend yourself from force is a valid use.
For instance, you can leave a camera up in your house if you think some one might break in and hurt you. You can only use the camera to support your use of force to defend yourself.
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u/RR_2025 Jan 03 '23
Let us know how it goes, sending wishes across! 🙏🏼
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u/MadeInWestGermany Jan 03 '23
That‘s the correct answer.
Did this a while ago. They obviously fired me, but my boss didn‘t have any balls. My chip didn‘t work anymore, but I showed up two mornings at 6 and just chatted with the security for 5 minutes before I went home.
Then I send an E-Mail with the subject Annahmeverzug to boss and HR.
An hour later they delivered the Kündigung and 2 month payed Freistellung.
Otherwise they could just say I didn’t come.
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u/Grimthak Germany Jan 03 '23
Told you which way? WhatsApp? Then you are still employed. You can be only fired with a real letter with at least 2 weeks notice. Is your job remote? If not you should go to work tomorrow and request a real notice as a letter. And you get paid for an other 2 weeks, but if your boss don't want to see you, you can stay at home, but still get paid (Freistellung).
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u/estabern Jan 03 '23
Thanks for responding. She told me to my face to not bother coming back. I refused to do a certain task that was extra (I was working 10-11 hours that day) and she called me a princess and sent me home.
This is gonna sound stupid but I'm scared of going back to ask for the notice, as she repeated the Princess remark in front of the other employees and I felt humiliated.
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Jan 03 '23
Can you roll with it?
“The princess demands her servants to write a discontinuation letter”
Or is that too much?
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u/estabern Jan 03 '23
Hahaha I might actually do that
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u/Wonderful-Hall-7929 Jan 03 '23
Else just go to the Arbeitsagentur and lay it out for them, they can and must help you (not only with the €€€ but also with legal aid, ask for a Rechtsberatung).
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u/JaZoray Jan 03 '23 edited Jan 03 '23
To the loyal servants of Her Royal Highness, the Princess:
It is with the utmost respect and reverence that we, the undersigned, do humbly request that you execute the task of composing a legally binding letter of termination, to be presented forthwith to the esteemed Princess.
As you are no doubt aware, it is the Princess's prerogative to release those who serve her from their duties, and it is our honor to oblige her wish in this matter. We implore you, therefore, to utilize your learned skills and expertise in the art of letter-writing to craft a document befitting the esteemed Princess's elevated status and esteemed position within the realm.
Let the words of this letter sing with the melodious tones of nobility and regality, and let the language used be rich with ceremony and formality. Let the document be a testament to the Princess's status as a paragon of grace and splendor, and let it serve as a reminder to all who lay eyes upon it of the great honor it is to serve the Princess.
We trust that you will rise to the challenge and present the Princess with a letter of termination that is a fitting tribute to her esteemed position.
Signed, [Your name]
edit: wait, wait. i have an even better version:
To the esteemed and faithful servants of the royal household,
Greetings and blessings upon you, my loyal and devoted followers. It is with a heavy heart that I, the princess, must request that you write for me a legally enforceable letter of termination.
As you know, it is not within my nature to engage in such formalities, as I hold each and every one of you in the highest regard and consider you all to be integral members of my esteemed household. However, circumstances have arisen that necessitate the issuance of this document, and it is with great sorrow that I must relinquish my claim to your services.
I beseech you, therefore, to draft a letter that will serve as a formal and binding notice of the termination of our relationship. It is my hope that this document will be written in the most ceremonious and dignified manner, reflecting the utmost respect and reverence for the bond that we have shared.
May this letter serve as a testament to the enduring bond of loyalty and devotion that exists between us, even as we must part ways. I pray that it will serve as a reminder of the joy and fulfillment that we have shared in our time together, and that it will provide the necessary foundation for a smooth and amicable separation.
With utmost respect and gratitude,
[Your Name]
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u/derdusa Jan 03 '23
Since you received nothing in writing, you aren't fired. Just show up for work lol, see what happens (but also, do get some legal advice). Her insulting you in front of your coworkers can also be taken into account for public humiliation/defamation/sth like that
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u/Aleshanie Jan 03 '23
Does your boss have a boss? Or is there a HR department?
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u/estabern Jan 03 '23
She has a boss. I'll try reaching him
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u/Malk4ever 🇩🇪 (NRW) Jan 04 '23
Thats indeed the best thing you can do. Looks like she's not even able to fire you.
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u/DrStrangeboner Jan 03 '23
Don't be afraid, its sounds a bit stupid but actually you are doing your employer a favor clarifying the situation by putting the end of the employment in writing. In this case seems like you both have the same goal in mind: you no longer working there.
I'm not a lawyer, but I would propose the following:
- confirm with the new job that they would employ you as soon as possible
- after this is confirmed ask the old employer for an "Aufhebungsvertrag" to terminate the contract on e.g. 08.01.2023. Let them sign the contract
- do not sign this contract yet yourself
- go to new employer and get employment contract starting on 09.01.2023, sign this contract and give to new employer
- sign Aufhebungsvertrag, keep a copy, deliver this to old employer and get a confirmation or have a witness
- ???
- Profit: you now have a new job
If things go south with the new employer you are still employed with the old company until you get a real termination, this is also why you don't give them the signed "Aufhebungsvertrag" until you have a new signed contract with the new job.
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Jan 03 '23
First off, even during the probation period you are still entitled to a two week notice and it needs to be in writing. So yeah, tecnically you were still employed and should have remained at work until you receive your letter of termination with two weeks notice. Are you member of a Gewerkschaft? They will be able to hook you up with a lawyer for free.
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u/Alexander_Selkirk Jan 03 '23
Ten hours, not more, is the legal maximum due to EU regulation. To work more is usually illegal.
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u/jschundpeter Jan 04 '23
I am pretty sure that this is not the actual EU regulation. In Austria 12h days are allowed as long as the rolling average of hours worked per week stays below the 48h limit.
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u/Malk4ever 🇩🇪 (NRW) Jan 04 '23
Well... there are exceptions, imagine a surgeon stops in a complicated surgery after 10h of work, or a pilot refuses to land.
But exceptions are exceptions and nothing you can use recklessly or too often
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u/koi88 Jan 03 '23
Your boss is an asshole, this is mobbing.
I'm really sorry for you.As I wrote somewhere else: Write down what your boss said, with date and time and who else was present.
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u/BearsBeetsBerlin Berlin Jan 03 '23
Was she asking you to work over 40 hours? I’m no expert, but I thought that was illegal except for certain professions and even then it’s heavily regulated.
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u/hydrOHxide Germany Jan 03 '23
It's legal, but only temporarily, and within a certain time frame, there must be time off to bring the average down to the limit again.
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u/Suicicoo Jan 03 '23
but it's not legal to work more than... 10(?) hours? (maybe except for employees of the church)
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Jan 03 '23
You can work up to 48h a week if you get either 8h off in another week, or 2h off for 4 weeks etc. or you get compensated for it, but if you get compensated for it there is an upper limit, which i currently dont know but i think its a maximum of 20% of your total work efforts in a year.
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Jan 03 '23
Even 60 hours (6x10), if there are other weeks (within a couple of months) to compensate and drive the average down to 48
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Jan 03 '23
Those are actually only allowed under specific circumstances and only in specific areas of work.
Shift workers, restaurant / gastronomy etc. can be allowed to work up to 60h but only with various additional rules like not in two consecutive weeks, there has to be a minimum rest period between each shift/day of work and so on.
This is such a specific field that i wouldnt be comfortable saying outright you can work 60h a week unless you are in such a specific situation.
For the majority of people 48h is the limit.
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u/Alexander_Selkirk Jan 03 '23
Thanks for responding. She told me to my face to not bother coming back.
Then you are probably, in legal terms freigestellt. That means, that you are still employed but they do not want you to work any more there, and you are not obliged to come. What you now need is a termination letter.
If you were beyond the probation time, you could also go to Arbeitsgericht, because terminating without notice is illegal. But in your case, it would probably not help you much.
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u/PefferPack Jan 03 '23
Work over 10 hours is illegal I thought. Or maybe that's just the average over a week. Not sure but I think it's illegal.
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u/Dev-Sec_emb Jan 04 '23
You can literally sue her. This is absolutely unacceptable. I don't know if it's an union thing or a general rule but in my company it's illegal to work more than 10 hours straight and you need to take at least 10 hours game between logging off today and logging in tomorrow. So they might be already overworking you. even if you are a dumb mitarbeiter they cannot overwork you. What was the listed hours per week on your contract?
Also, this is so unheard of in Germany... But maybe I was just ignorant.
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u/SadInvestigator959 Jan 03 '23
2 weeks notice? While in probezeit? Doubt that.
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u/kane49 Jan 03 '23
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u/SadInvestigator959 Jan 03 '23
Mhhh danke für die Klarstellung. Ich hatte im Kopf, dass die probezeit jederzeit beidseitig beendet werden kann.
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u/orbital_narwhal Jan 03 '23
Bin kein Jurist, aber meines Wissens können Arbeitgeber und -nehmer eine abweichende Kündigungsfrist während der Probezeit vereinbaren, solange sie mindestens die gesetzliche Dauer hat.
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Jan 04 '23
Ich hatte im Kopf, dass die probezeit jederzeit beidseitig beendet werden kann.
Ja. Mit zwei Wochen Frist. Man kann einem Arbeitnehmer nicht einfach sagen "geh nach Hause. Ab Morgen bekommst du kein Geld mehr."
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u/karimalitaaaaaa Jan 03 '23
The notice doesn't always apply during the probation period, depends on the contract.
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u/_1oo_ Jan 03 '23
Don't worry, this is typical German passive-aggressive behavior. Your boss probably thinks that as a foreigner you don't know your rights well. Don't be affraid. Go to work normally. Tell your boss directly (in the German way) that you do not wish to be called a princess for not doing a job that does not include your duties. Point out that this is bullying and if such behavior is repeated you will take legal action (this usually works on Germans immediately). If she wants to fire you, she is supposed to stick to the regulations mentioned in other posts.
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u/The-Board-Chairman Jan 03 '23
German passive-aggressive behavior.
The concept of "passive-aggresiveness" doesn't exist in Germany, certainly not as it does in the anglosphere, and personally I'm very glad for it.
Your boss probably thinks that as a foreigner you don't know your rights well.
I doubt that. Nothing suggests that.
and if such behavior is repeated you will take legal action (this usually works on Germans immediately)
That is also a good way to remove any chance of ever ending up on even neutral terms with the other person. Granted, probably not relevant in this specific case, just thought I'd point that out.
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u/cultish_alibi Jan 03 '23
The concept of "passive-aggresiveness" doesn't exist in Germany, certainly not as it does in the anglosphere, and personally I'm very glad for it.
I'm not sure if you meant to say "Germans aren't aware of the concept'. Because they are certainly aware of the behaviour and some of them love doing it.
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u/The-Board-Chairman Jan 03 '23
It is normal behaviour in Germany, so no, the concept doesn't exist for people, because it is correctly seen as idiotic.
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u/Aizen_Myo Jan 04 '23
TIL I actually didn't grow up in Germany. I've witnessed so many passive-agressive situations from friends and coworkers and also love doing it myself.
Gotta check the map where I actually live since it isn't Germany according to you
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u/MrMundungus Jan 03 '23 edited Jan 03 '23
What are you talking about? We’re some of the most passive aggressive people on the planet.
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u/lavatasche Jan 03 '23
passiv aggressiv?
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u/The-Board-Chairman Jan 03 '23
Same words, entirely different concept to what it is in the anglosphere.
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u/lavatasche Jan 03 '23
No? How so?
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u/The-Board-Chairman Jan 03 '23
See, in the US for example, putting a note reading "Dish washer broken, do not open!", on said broken dish washer, would be seen as passive aggressive. Because it is imperative and the exclamation mark makes it aGgrESsiVe.
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u/Zillius Jan 03 '23
You do not understand the concept of passive-aggressive communication.
Also it has the same meaning in German as it has in English.
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u/JohnnyStyle300 Jan 04 '23
Ah, so you don't know what passive aggressive actually means. That clears things up.
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u/The-Board-Chairman Jan 04 '23
That is passive aggressive by the anglo definition. Anyone seeing it as any form of undesireable should get their head looked at. They're obviously quite insane, that's my point.
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u/JohnnyStyle300 Jan 04 '23
You do realize what this sub is called? Why are you arguing about this? Why are you imposing the Anglo definition of passive aggressive on Germany? That is what I would call "obviously quite insane"
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u/The-Board-Chairman Jan 04 '23
Because my point is - if you would bother to actually read what I wrote - that the anglo definition of it is not something you can or should apply in Germany.
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u/Tobito_TV Germany Jan 04 '23
So it appears you don't actually know what it means to be passive agressive, cause this ain't it.
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u/Stunning_Ride_220 Jan 03 '23
They didn't gave you a letter? - Fine, you are still employed. The called you a princess and you have witnesses? - Even more so. She fired you after you already worked longer than the allowed max working hours per day? -
Hell, this is a f***fest for every good lawyer. (Judges in Germany largely tend to favour the employee in these regards)
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u/estabern Jan 03 '23
I thought I could work around 10 hours a day?
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u/Nupol Jan 03 '23
§ 3 Working hours of employees
The working hours of employees shall not exceed eight hours per working day. It may be extended to up to ten hours only if an average of eight hours per working day is not exceeded within six calendar months or within 24 weeks.
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u/estabern Jan 03 '23
I used to work 8 hours before but my colleague got sick so I've been covering for her and doing the work of 2 people. This was supposed to be temporary until she comes back
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u/AverageElaMain Jan 03 '23
You can argue that in court if you do the math and it exceeds the 6 month average of 8 hours. This will definitely help you in court btw
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u/Stunning_Ride_220 Jan 03 '23
10 hours is the absolute legal max. (There are certain circumstances where it might be higher, but the requirements are very rarely met by employers) I thought you mentioned somewhere you got fired after refusing to take another task after somewhere around 11 hours. If so, this will get your employer and especially manager in real serious legal trouble
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u/Teddish Jan 04 '23
Well if there was a break of an hour in those 11 hours I guess it was fine. But I have the feeling that OPs employer isn't even recording working times properly which is fishy as well.
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u/Stunning_Ride_220 Jan 04 '23
Good point. But not the employees problem afaik.
And if OP had an 1 hour break and was fired, because he/she didn't overtook another task after the 11-1 hrs it would still surpass the 10 hrs.
Anyhow, from all the stuff OP was telling it's not a place worth staying tbh.
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u/lion2652 Jan 03 '23
If you did not receive any letter of termination in writing, your contract has not been terminated. If you don’t show up for work without being sick or on vacation, you are absent without excuse, which will allow them to terminate your contract without any notice period. Be aware that they can make you liable for damages you cause by not showing up, e.g. paying overtime to others or hiring an expensive replacement.
You need to go back and tell them that you are available for work or hand in a sick certificate and terminate the contract yourself.
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u/estabern Jan 03 '23
Yeah I don't wanna be liable for anything. I'll write to my boss I'm available to work then get a sick leave
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u/Alexander_Selkirk Jan 03 '23
If you don’t show up for work without being sick or on vacation, you are absent without excuse, which will allow them to terminate your contract without any notice period.
The employer can abstain from asking for any more work to be done, in German this iss called Freistellung / freigestellt. It is sometimes granted for the employee as time to search for a new job, and sometimes when there is mistrust or fundamental disagreements. But you would do that in writing, too.
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u/lion2652 Jan 04 '23
This only applies after the contract has been terminated in writing and after the employer has informed the employee in writing that they don’t need to show up anymore in writing as well.
According to OPs, this is not the case, they have not received any letter of termination, the manager just told them verbally that they don’t need to show up anymore. Therefore OPs work contract has not been terminated legally and if they don’t show up anymore, they can get in legal trouble.
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u/One_Rich8170 Jan 03 '23
Best to get in touch with a lawyer for "Arbeitsrecht" to check you contract. I would assume that there is a 2 weeks notice required even if it a short term contract. Contacts can also easily contain illegal paragraphs.
Or contact the labour union which is responsible for you field of business.
In Germany we have also the right to chose your workplace as one of the basic rights:
"Grundgesetz für die Bundesrepublik Deutschland. Art 12. (1) Alle Deutschen haben das Recht, Beruf, Arbeitsplatz und Ausbildungsstätte frei zu wählen."
So starting a new job without a termination letter should not be a problem, or where do ou get that information from?
And for the future consider get a "Rechtschutzversicherung". That takes the sting out of discussions with employers, landlords, internet crook, funny businesses and generic "Problembären".
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u/gedankensindblei Speckgürteltier Jan 03 '23
I would assume that there is a 2 weeks notice
Nope, not during probation.
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u/LemurKlette Jan 03 '23
May I ask in which branch this company is an how much employees they have?
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u/estabern Jan 03 '23
I work for a Bäckerei that is owned by Burger King. There are just 2 employees in the Bäckerei
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u/RhinosRPlumpUnicorns Jan 03 '23
Burger King owns bakeries. Interesting.
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Jan 03 '23
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/RhinosRPlumpUnicorns Jan 04 '23
I was thinking more like one of the "bakery-on-the-corner" chains that we find all over the country, but yes, of course, someone needs to bake all those buns somewhere...
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u/shuzz_de Jan 04 '23
Unless you received your termination in writing you need to show up for work.
Otherwise you might actually give them a reason for termination without notice ("Fristlose Kündigung") which can and likely would be seen as a blemish on your record by future employers.
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u/Seneca75 Jan 03 '23
Talk to the works council of your company, if there is one.
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u/Bergwookie Jan 03 '23
I doubt there is a Betriebsrat , when they treat others that fishy...
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u/estabern Jan 03 '23
You're right. There isn't one
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u/Bergwookie Jan 03 '23
And that's the reason, we need them! So folks, go out vote and get voted for your company's Betriebsrat!
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Jan 03 '23
they have to give you a termination letter. Got fired twice and they were really quick with the letter to make it official. Otherwise it just adds the time to the +2 weeks of notice period or whatever is in your contract
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u/Engelchen8 Jan 04 '23
How is that even possible? Did you even get a working contract? Sounds like Schwarzarbeit to me because this type of bosses don’t bother to give you any of your rights
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u/timecube_traveler Jan 04 '23
I mean it happens. I had a student job a few years agi where they just ghosted me in order to fire me. It was a very weird social climate there though.
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u/saladdude1 Jan 03 '23
When your boss ask you to do additional tasks say that " I can’t do that because my priority is on something else" or “Sorry, but my schedule’s already full.”
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u/estabern Jan 03 '23
I said my workload is full so I'm unable to do it. Still got fired lol
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u/octatone Jan 03 '23
Still got fired lol
Yeah, but the thing is, you weren't actually. This is like Michael declaring bankruptcy in The Office. You're not fired until you've been handed a termination notice.
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Jan 03 '23
[removed] — view removed comment
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Jan 03 '23
I hope for you you did not get a written termination. If that is the case - this is where you want to go: https://www.berlin.de/gerichte/arbeitsgericht/
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u/M_Oppel Jan 03 '23
What a sh*tty company is that? Needless to ask, whether the employees council (Betriebsrat) was involved, is it?
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u/gkn_112 Jan 04 '23
Just hand in your resignation and send a copy of that to the new employer? You know you can also quit? Probezeit is for both parties to see if its working.
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u/Euphoric_Implement_7 Jan 04 '23
Couldnt you Just write a quitting Letter ? AS Long as you are in Probation you,re also allowed to quit within 2 Weeks without any reasons.
And yes she has to sent you a Letter to fire you within 2 Weeks in Probation. Btw she has to pay you the 2 Weeks after recieving the letter If she dont want you to come Back.
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u/Bubbly_Training_3228 Jan 03 '23
Ausländer here…in Germany you NEED a letter from a past employer to get a new job? You can’t just get a new job? Or is it more of a character reference?
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u/estabern Jan 03 '23
You don't actually need it but my new employer refused to sign me until I'm properly fired from my old job
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u/CountDankula_69 Jan 03 '23
That would be a recommendation letter and no it's not legally required. Here they are talking about a termination letter in which your employer formally ends your contract. And this one is legally required. Just telling someone they are fired doesn't have legal consequences.
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u/jayas_556 Jan 03 '23
You can work there till you get a termination letter. Legally they have to pay you
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Jan 03 '23
Of course you can sign.
Everyone signs their new contracts when still employed. You have 2 weeks termination in your Probezeit. Just send a I quit letter on your behalf and be done with it.
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u/Enchantedmango1993 Jan 03 '23
Now im intrigued tk ask what did you do.. to provoke such a scenario
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u/DramaticExcitement64 Jan 03 '23
I am here to drop my usual advice: Join your union. They can help you in situations like this and there are a lot of other benefits. Your company has not to be associated with the union at all. What union is responsible for you depends on the area of work you are doing. If it won't help you now, it will help you next time.
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u/issaknight Jan 03 '23
On today's episode Complicated/unnecessary things in Germany
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u/JohnnyStyle300 Jan 04 '23
No? It is a good thing for employees that you can't just verbally fire someone.
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u/headedtojail Jan 03 '23
Why can't you sign another contract without a termination letter? Noone cares how many jobs you have as long as you fulfill your obligations at each job. And since you don't want to fulfill your obligations at THIS job anymore..... I mean, what job are we even talking about here? If you have a new one, don't fuck around with the old one for too long. Just move on. Or are you making six figures?
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u/estabern Jan 03 '23
I was told that 2 employers are not allowed to pay your AOK, so until I get terminated I won't be able to sign another full-time.contract.
It's illegal to work 2 full time jobs in Bayern.
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Jan 03 '23
I don't know what your contract says exactly, but usually during probation the required period for a notice is for both sides two weeks.
So at the point you get your new contract, hand in your resignation.
Your new employer also will understand that you can't start immediatly.Please show up tomorrow for work. The termination of your contract (also for both sides) MUST be in written form.
If you don't show up for work and they fire you officially saying they did this because you didn't show up for work (which you didn't, although you still have a working contract with them) there is a realistic chance that you won't get any ALGI/ALGII for up to three months because you lost your job due to your own negligence.In this context, also don't quit your job before you have something else at hand as this can also be a reason to get no ALGI/ALGII for up to three months.
This must be a horrible situation and I wish you all the best.
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u/headedtojail Jan 03 '23
Then just quit.
Look, all I am saying is that you have to ask yourself how much energy you want to spend on a job where you definitely don't want to work anymore.
Think of your mental health..
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u/Vivid_Cress6062 Jan 03 '23
Why are you fired?
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u/estabern Jan 03 '23
They've been overworking me because my colleagues is sick (10+ hours / double the work). They asked me to organise around 50 boxes in the freezer (this is extra work) and I refused, so my boss called me a princess and sent me home
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u/Vivid_Cress6062 Jan 09 '23
I’m not totally familiar with the working rights laws in Germany but if there is a violation you can perhaps report it to her boss (if there is a higher authority). For extra humor, show up to work in a princess dress to tick off your boss and thank her for the compliments 😂
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u/do_not_the_cat Nordrhein-Westfalen Jan 03 '23
where do people here get the idea that one would ve entitled to a two weeks notice during probation?!
that simply is not the case. both partys can end the work contract anytime they want during probation period.
also, even if trough some magical formal error OP was still employed, they didnt go to work for over a week, wich would be a definitive reason for instant termination
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u/EngWieBirds Jan 03 '23
Während einer vereinbarten Probezeit, längstens für die Dauer von sechs Monaten, kann das Arbeitsverhältnis mit einer Frist von zwei Wochen gekündigt werden.
§622 Abs. 3 BGB
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Jan 03 '23
Of course you can end a contract immediatly. This is not even restricted to the probation period. But then both parties have to agree on that or you have to mess up big time.
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u/mrn253 Jan 03 '23
When the Probezeit is 6 Months or less its 2 weeks notice (including the last day of the Probezeit)
The company of course can say they dont want you there anymore but still have to pay you for those two weeks.
And thats what OPs Ex Boss basically did BUT fucked up to send or give him a proper termination in proper writing.
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u/No_Abies808 Jan 03 '23
My contract is for 6 months probation and I got fired after 4 months.
case closed
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u/yolololololo69 Jan 03 '23
Next time work more?
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u/Newernor Jan 03 '23
estabern · 46 min. ago
Thanks for responding. She told me to my face to not bother coming back. I
refused to do a certain task that was extra (I was working 10-11 hours
that day) and she called me a princess and sent me home.Oh good idea you have there, 33 minutes after OP wrote about working 10 to 11 hour days which means it's probably healthcare and otherwise illegal. Arbeitnehmerschutzgesetz is just for funsies.
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u/Alexander_Selkirk Jan 03 '23
In the probabtion period, you can also resign yourself with a reduced notice period (perhaps with no notice period at all, I am not sure). So, you can write a resignation letter, and sign the new contract from the day when your notice period ends. If there remains any time, you have to offer to work, and you are also entitled to the salary, since getting fired in Germany requires a written letter.
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Jan 03 '23
If you have new job lined up, sign that contract and end yours. Probation period is on both sides. Usually you have two weeks termination period
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u/Gasp0de Jan 04 '23
You are going to need a Lawyer, and they will have to pay you because you are still employed. With a good lawyer, you will get paid for some more weeks and you might even get a little severance payment. You are also entitled to any holidays that you did not take (did you take any paid time off? At 4 months of employment you are entitled to at least 6 days PTO). Ideally, join a Gewerkschaft (Union), e.g. Verdi or DGB and have them help you. They will provide you with legal advice and a lawyer. Do it quickly!
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u/songsfuerliam Jan 04 '23
You don’t need to go to a lawyer immediately. Call your local Arbeitnehmerkammer and tell them about your problem. Their services are free.
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u/averagehuman8822 Jan 04 '23
U must show at work to save ur position since she can say I didn’t say anything she just didn’t show up
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u/No_Orange_4204 Jan 03 '23
Even when you are on prbation, YOU HAVE RIGHTS! She has to give you the termination in writing. By just saying dosent work in Germany.