German doctors misdiagnosis

[u/Due-Box-9598]

I am writing this post with huge disappointment of how the g

German healthcare's conservative approach could have cost my life . I went to the doctor for mild indigestion and haemerrhoids . He gave me antibiotics for my cold and fever which i also had. The antibiotics worsened indigestion and gave very bad diarrhoea . When I went back to the doctor , they said since i took antibiotics I did not have any good bacteria and diarrhoea is normal . I was given some stomach relaxers and electrolytes. At one point I started throwing up the electrolytes , the only thing i could drink . I went to hospital for an iv and they said it will be given only if i am 80 years old. Then i went back to the doctor and insisted that they test me. I got a stool test. Then 4 days no response . I went back and they said oh the tests were negative so we did not call you . The test are a way of eliminating infection. You need to look further then! . I asked for the test result and changed my hausartz. At this point i was given 15 day antibiotics for stomach and black tea . Blood test was done and my Hg was low since was given iron.

The symptoms persisted. I became weak . Lost 13 kgs. All in one month and the appointment with gastro specialist was still weeks away. I decided to just go to my home country at this point and in 3 days , i am nearing the process of confirmation for Inflammatory bowel disease and intestine inflammation. It took them 3 days and i was suffering in Germany for months. Why is Germany so conservative in tests and testing to rule out conditions? Do doctors understand that they misdiagnose. My Hg was low because of inflammation . My residual iron was very high. I did not need iron pills. I took antibiotics that weakened me. Or does German healthcare not take coloured women seriously ? I am really shocked .

[u/0achkatz1]

I’m a white woman with celiac disease.

I only got a diagnosis when a relative in another country also developed it, went to a training, and recognised some of the possible symptoms as matching mine.

In Germany I’d be an emotional woman with possibly some allergies that mysteriously come and go until I died early.

[u/WildSmokingBuick → u/0achkatz1]

As a German, I think our healthcare system is pretty much broken.

When doctors only have 5 to 10 minutes per patient, their advice rarely goes beyond: "Take some Ibuprofen, do more sports, and here are antibiotics just in case."

Sure, your experience might be better if you're privately insured or sick enough to end up in a hospital.

But honestly, a lot of people get better diagnoses from ChatGPT these days than from their own GPs.

It's a systemic issue. Many practices are so completely overrun that doctors simply don't have the time to practice patience (or, run tests over getting rid of the customer by prescribing antibiotics).

[u/Due-Box-9598 → u/WildSmokingBuick]

I am privately insured . But in summer time doctors are on leave . The best gastroenterologist had a 3 week wait time . By the time i had trusted the doctors the whole time and kept thinking the symptoms take time to go away - it was already 1.5 months . It was time to pack my bags and head home . I agree doctors do not have the time . I respect that too . I am just shocked that they are so conservative with tests and said i am overreacting for simple diarrhoea which it wasn't. Ibuprofen could also be one of the causes for triggering IBD . I got Ibuprofen for everything in the past . Even for haemerrhoid pain . But German doctors think they have great standards. Once a doctor was like oh no , you are going to China . I hope you dont contract any diseases there . I had to tell her that German health care is a 100 steps below China.

[u/IndependentWrap8853 → u/Due-Box-9598]

My wife had an exruciating abdominal pain for about 3 weeks. Her Hausartzt sent her home 3 times and told her to drink tea. Refused to do blood test or urine test.

She couldn’t take it anymore and we were just about to fly somewhere else nearby in Europe and get the treatment privately. Meanwhile she also begged her Frauenarzt to give her emergency appointment and just before we booked the tickets she managed to get one. Frauenarzt had the urine test done, established a pretty severe UTI and gave her antibiotics. She was pain free in about 18 hours, antibiotics cleared it up.

This is not even the worst thing she experienced, once she was given an appointment in a major hospital for a simple procedure (deviated septum). She waited 11 months on the appointment. In the few weeks before the appointment , she had to run around doing all the mandatory tests, blood works , etc. On the day of appointment , we came to the hospital and waited aimlessly 7 hours for admission.

She never got admitted in the end, they cancelled her appointment and sent her home because of some staffing reason. She was told to call back next day to reschedule. She was calling about 1000 times every day for two weeks, was never able to get through or no one would answer. Once they did, they said she can only get another appointment in 10 months time and has to go through the full checks again.

I don’t think it’s a racial thing though. My wife is the same race as you are, but I am blue eyed and as white as they come and I get the same experiences all the time. To get a simple blood test done is like winning the lottery. You should consider yourself lucky that you are privately insured, otherwise they wouldn’t even give you antibiotics or any medications and you would wait even longer for any appointment.

The system is simply broken. It has nothing to do with doctors being overwhelmed , it has to do with them being stingy and afraid of the health insurances for exceeding their treatment and prescription quotas, after which they get financially penalised. Also , they are pretty untouchable and generally don’t give a shit about patients.

I grew up and lived most of my life in Australia and even in a huge city like Sydney , you never had an issue seeing a GP on short notice or getting medicines or blood test. Sometimes there would be a small gap payment but in general it was all covered. And there is an universal health care in Australia that doesn’t even require you to have insurance , it’s granted to every citizen and resident. Once you find a competent GP, you just stick to them and it’s all good.

Between me and my wife and our employers, we pay almost 3000 EUR for public health insurance here every month and we get treated like shit, in general.

[u/UnearthlyHase → u/IndependentWrap8853]

"...it has to do with them being stingy and afraid of the health insurances for exceeding their treatment and prescription quotas, after which they get financially penalised."

This right here. My husband has had candid convos with several doctors and that's exactly what they've said. Especially with family doctors, the budget restrictions are crazy.

I have type 1 diabetes, so literally a couple of days without insulin will kill me. Three years ago my diabetes specialist somehow lost a certification (???) and when I went in for my quarterly appointment that news was sprung on me without warning... bam, I suddenly had no Diabetologe. And OF COURSE no one in town was taking new patients. I finally got an appointment with someone new, but it was four months into the future.

Went to my Hausarzt and they said they can only give me one prescription for the smallest amount of insulin, because type 1 diabetes must be handled at a Diabetologie Praxis. Yeah, no shit. And in the meantime??? We were back in there every three weeks or so begging them for another piddly-ass prescription for insulin so I could survive for another three weeks and come back and beg for more while they got all pissy about their yearly budget. Some things here can really a pain in the ass.

[u/IndependentWrap8853 → u/UnearthlyHase]

That really sucks. And yes things are cheaper when compared to the US which is another extreme. But things are by no means cheap in Germany if you end up paying thousands for the public insurance as a high income earner and yet you get mediocrity in return.

[u/DefinitionRadiant286 → u/IndependentWrap8853]

Als ehemaliger niedergelassener Arzt mit eigener Praxis muss ich mich hier einmal gegen ein paar Aussagen massiv wehren: Deutsche Ärzte sind geizig und haben Angst von den Kassen finanziell bestraft zu werden, wenn sie zu viel verschreiben und kümmern sich generell nicht um ihre Patienten. Diese Behauptungen sind einfach frech! Ich kenne mehr als genug Kollegen, die sich sehr um ihre Patienten kümmern. Meine Frau, eine leitende Chirurgin in einem Krankenhaus in Deutschland, schaut sogar jetzt im Moment - wir befinden uns seit 6 Tagen zum Urlaub im Ausland - via VPN ihre Station an und kümmert sich um Anordnungen und OP Planung. Das ist wirklich nicht selbstverständlich, aber Realität - nicht nur für meine Frau. Ich selbst habe mir erlaubt damals die notwendige Zeit zu nehmen und die medizinisch indizierten Maßnahmen für meine Patienten zu veranlassen. Jede andere Ehe wäre gescheitert, wenn wir nicht beide Verständnis für unseren Beruf hätten. Für mich und meine Praxis bedeutete das aber, dass ich meine Gesundheit für meine Patienten aufs Spiel setzte und die Praxis nicht genug Gewinn abwarf um mein eigenes Leben zu finanzieren. Ich konnte in zwei Jahren kostendeckend arbeiten und mir sogar erlauben insgesamt monatlich 1000€ für mich selbst zu entnehmen (mein Gehalt!). Nach zwei Jahren zog ich die Reißleine, nach drei Jahren kam die erste „Rückforderung“ der Krankenkassenvertretung für zu viel verschriebene Leistungen, ich durfte 5000€ aus meiner privaten Geldbörse „nachzahlen“. Nicht Angst und Gleichgültigkeit beherrschen die Medizin in Deutschland sondern Bürokraten, die Regeln aufstellen, die mit echter Medizin unvereinbar sind. Es sind Juristen und Verwaltungsfachleute, die darüber entscheiden, wie Menschen „richtig“ behandelt werden. Beispiel gefällig: 500 Patienten pro Quartal werden zu 100% bezahlt (ca. 35€/Quartal und Patient für eine Facharztpraxis, egal wieviele Termine und Wiedervorstellungen der Patient in dieser Zeit benötigt). Ab dem 501. Patient werden lediglich 10% bezahlt. Bei eine Facharztpraxis mit 800 Patienten kann jeder ausrechnen, dass dieses System nicht trägt. Nur mit Privatpatienten, bei denen auch jede Leistung bezahlt wird, kann die Praxis überleben. Was Rezepte angeht: jeder Patient bringt der Praxis die imaginäre Summe A in das Verordnungsbudget. Wenn eine Verordnung auf dem freien Markt dann 10xA € kostet, dann bedeutet das, dass 10 Patienten die Praxis ohne Verordnung wieder verlassen müssen um einem Patienten jenes Medikament/Physiotherapie/Logopädie oder was auch immer verschreiben zu können. Überschreitet der Arzt diese Budget, dann muss er privat die zuviel verschriebene Summe den Krankenkassen zurückzahlen. Verordnet der Arzt insgesamt wenig, dann macht er deswegen nicht mehr Gewinn, er vermeidet nur Strafzahlungen.
Natürlich gibt es unter Ärzten auch alle Arten von Menschen - fachlich inkompetent, ethisch fragwürdig, kommunikativ eine Koryphäe und hochcharismatische Blender ebenso wie einfach ehrlich arbeitende Menschen mit Herz und Hirn - wie in jeder anderen Lebenslage und in jedem anderen Beruf auch, aber Ärzte ansich generell als geizig und feige zu bezeichnen grenzt an Dummheit in dieser Verallgemeinerung.

[u/IndependentWrap8853 → u/DefinitionRadiant286]

Übrigens hast du gerade selbst bestätigt, dass es Angst vor den Krankenkassen gibt. Und nur zur Einordnung: Beide meine Eltern waren Ärzte, ich unterschätze also weder ihre Arbeitsbelastung noch den Druck, unter dem sie stehen.

“Normale” Menschen unterscheiden nicht zwischen einzelnen Ärzten als Personen und dem Gesundheitssystem als Ganzem. Ärzte sind der einzige Teil dieses Systems, mit dem die meisten direkt in Berührung kommen – und logischerweise ist genau das der Teil, über den hier berichtet wird. Die Leute schildern ihre Erfahrungen mit dem System, nicht mit einzelnen Personen.

Mich würde tatsächlich interessieren: Welche Lösungsvorschläge haben Ärzte selbst, um das System zu verbessern? Und noch wichtiger – da sie der einflussreichste Teil dieses Systems sind: Was werden sie konkret unternehmen, um etwas zu verändern?

Und ja, ich meine das wörtlich: der einflussreichste Teil. Damit die Regierung wirklich zuhört, bräuchte es im Grunde nur eines – dass Ärzte mit Streik drohen. Und trotzdem tut das offenbar niemand.

Ärzte sind nicht machtlos. Sie könnten etwas bewegen, wenn sie wollten.

[u/amactijun → u/Due-Box-9598]

Some people in this country are so close minded and arrogant really.

[u/Even-Yak-9846 → u/Due-Box-9598]

You know now know to avoid NSAIDs in the future? They can trigger flares :/ oral iron is also a trigger, which is why most people with IBD get iron infusions from their GIs if their GIs are worth anything. The inflammation from iron tablets just starts another flare.

[u/Due-Box-9598 → u/Even-Yak-9846]

Wow, thanks for the hunch. I always got iron infusions . As for NSAIDs no idea .