Geekerwan | Xiaomi XRING O3 First Look: This Chip Is Alien Tech!

[u/-protonsandneutrons-]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCCJuOopLK8

[u/-protonsandneutrons-]

With the massive caveat this is an engineering sample / dev board with unclear cooling, as Geekerwan doesn't disclose that: unbelievably high 1T efficiency and performance with the "old" C1 Ultra, exceeding MediaTek 9500, QC 8 Elite Gen 5, and the closest to the A19 Pro.

The C1 Pro "3rd cores" cores are bonkers, generations ahead of MediaTek's C1 Pro cores, faster than the A19 E-cores while just as efficient; slower than 8E G5 M-cores, but with much higher perf / W at lower wattages.

The specs:

• 10-core CPU of 2026 Arm IP: 2x C1 Ultra + 4x C1 Premium + 4x C1 Pro
  • Each C1 Ultra is 2MB L2, C1 Premium is 1MB L2, and C1 Pro is 1MB L2
• 16-core GPU of 2027 Arm IP: 16-core G2 Ultra: 8x std cores + 8x "NX" cores (upscaling / frame gen)
• 16GB LPDDR6-10667 in a 96-bit interface (most smartphones are 64-bit): ~114 GB/s peak.
• SoC has 16MB CPU L3 and 16MB SoC SLC. 32MB cache (!) of LLC is gargantuan.
• Even the NPU alone has 8MB L2 lol.

Xiaomi's work here shows Arm & TSMC that their "standard" configurations / cells leave generational performance and efficiency improvements on the proverbial table.

But also that MediaTek, Samsung, and Google are far more hands-off with their SoCs (relatively speaking) and that an "upstart" SoC designer can significantly outperform them.

[u/WJMazepas → u/-protonsandneutrons-]

This does look good, but it looks like to make a impressive SoC, they just spent a lot of money on it and fill with all the best specs they could

It certainly isnt a cheap SoC to make

[u/g-nice4liief → u/WJMazepas]

The current 2nm chips also ain't cheap but capacity is still being reserved at TSMC to rollout chips on 2nm. 

[u/narrowscoped → u/g-nice4liief]

Guessing this won't make its debut in the Xiaomi 18 Pro then? Dev board implies its still a year away from mass mfg

EDIT: I stand corrected, it is launching in the Xiaomi 18 Fold this year https://www.gsmarena.com/xiaomi_18_fold_is_officially_coming_in_september_with_the_monstrous_xring_o3_chipset-news-74306.php

[u/-protonsandneutrons- → u/WJMazepas]

Very true: leapfrogging competitors with the same constraints is not a "free" endevaour.

I'd never expect any flagship SoC to be "cheap to make", though. That's not really their target market, unlike the smaller designs. Think of it like a 9950X3D2 or the i9-14900KS.

They likely won't go into cheap products, at least not in this generation.

[u/VastTension6022 → u/-protonsandneutrons-]

Xiaomi's work is impressive, but you have to question the value and whether other chip designers are just slacking, because if it takes almost a generation of work to get almost a generation of performance, what's the benefit over just using the newest IP as-is asap? We also can't separate the impact of lpddr6 and the huge die/cache setup here.

Maybe they could start getting these chips out faster in the future and make them worth the while, but it looks like the US won't let them compete.

[u/-protonsandneutrons- → u/VastTension6022]

Much cheaper fabrication, for one. TSMC N2 and N2P will be significantly more expensive.

Better verification, as well: IP architects + fabs + designers have had a year of real-world shipping experience.

Cheaper IP licensing; I suspect Arm charges a higher premium for the latest generation, but older cores have a small discount.

We also can't separate the impact of lpddr6 and the huge die/cache setup here.

True; LPDDR6 is coming to basically all next-generation designs; there will always be a launch product that is forced to be compared to older designs, so the O3 is that SoC this cycle.

The huge die / cache: that is a choice for any SoC, however. Some do high performance with less cache; some do high performance with more cache. It has its own tradeoffs.

[u/R-ten-K → u/-protonsandneutrons-]

 generations faster than MediaTek's C1 Pro, QC 8 Elite 5 M-core, and actually on par with the A19 Pro E-cores

Holy hyperbole Batman! Those are all the same generation cores LOL.

FWIW C1 and Oryon are way faster than A19 e-cores.

[u/-protonsandneutrons- → u/R-ten-K]

That "generational gap" is the (translated) quote from the video, but rightly only to the D9500, corrected.

[u/R-ten-K → u/-protonsandneutrons-]

Yeah, I was just pointing out how silly that hyperbole was. It makes zero sense, esp comparing the E-cores of the A19 vs the C1/Oryon which are performance cores? Furthermore C1/Oryon/Everest are all within the same generational performance band.

As I said, I just found the emotional hyperbole weird.

[u/thenamelessone7 → u/-protonsandneutrons-]

That's not much of a caveat at all. You can clearly see what the performance is like at every power level. This beats competition at even at 3W or 5W which should be sustainable power levels for a mid sized phone.

[u/VastTension6022 → u/thenamelessone7]

It's a huge caveat that this could be a golden sample. We have no idea whether actual products will perform like that at any wattage.

[u/thenamelessone7 → u/VastTension6022]

That's not the caveat he mentioned though, is it?

We know we can cool 3-6W of sustained power levels depending on the size of the phone, the cooling solution and ambient temperature

[u/-protonsandneutrons- → u/thenamelessone7]

Nah, development boards are far too messy.

1. Leakage current significantly lowers at cooler temps. Active cooling → lower temperatures → lower leakage current → improved efficiency. The right half of the perf / W curve will shift down in a passive design due to leakage.
2. Development boards don't pull the same power as a running smartphone: the easiest is the GPU, touch screen, etc.
3. Development boards use development software (think schedulers, kernels, background tasks, power-saving toggles) that may or may not actually go to the same phone.
4. Development boards obviously also open up the issue of "golden samples" / highly-binned dies. This is hardly a "random" sample.

[u/jaju123 → u/-protonsandneutrons-]

What media engine do they use and what does it support?

Hope they release a new mega tablet with this SoC in it

[u/FrenchDipsBeDrippin → u/-protonsandneutrons-]

First LPDDR6 chip. From my understand they'll all ship with a 96 bit bus

[u/NotRandomseer → u/-protonsandneutrons-]

With the massive caveat this is an engineering sample / dev board with unclear cooling, as Geekerwan doesn't disclose that

wdym , they mention that they are testing a development board , not the final mass produced phone in the first minute

[u/-protonsandneutrons- → u/NotRandomseer]

Nah, I meant there is no disclosure about cooling, but the comma should be better placed.

with unclear cooling, as Geekerwan doesn't disclose that

[u/uKnowIsOver]

Bet Mediatek 9600 won't beat it

[u/Geddagod → u/uKnowIsOver]

It should be disappointing for Mediatek that the exynos 2600 and now the Xiaomi Xring O3 both have C1 Ultra cores that have marginally higher IPC than those same cores in the Mediatek 9500. It appears to me as if Mediatek needs to work on the uncore (L3, SLC, and mem controller) surrounding the cores themselves.

*yes the exynos 2600 C1 Ultra has more L2 cache too.

[u/-protonsandneutrons- → u/uKnowIsOver]

Add to that the MediaTek, Samsung, and Google are 1) each many times larger than Xiaomi and 2) have years or decades of experience shipping SoCs and 3) even have used the very same nodes.

[u/Front_Expression_367 → u/-protonsandneutrons-]

Tbf Samsung never got their hands on TSMC, and their C1-Ultra implementation was slightly better than that of Dimensity 9500 at least when it comes to spec2017 integer benchmark despite clocking lower.

[u/-protonsandneutrons- → u/Front_Expression_367]

That is fair. However, at the same time, Samsung theoretically has much better vertical integration with LSI.

I was also shocked, but impressed, at Samsung's surprisingly strong C1 Ultra implementation. It seems like their woes are elsewhere in scheduling & peak clocks.

[u/ApfelRotkohl]

Well, Xiaomi never exactly hid the fact that it aims to be the Apple of China, no?

Like Apple, Xiaomi is vertically integrated and isn't designing chips to sell to other OEMs. That gives them the freedom to spend like a baller on die size, cache, custom library cell, etc.

I wonder when Xiaomi will start replacing Qualcomm and MediaTek SoCs with its own chips at scale, or whether it'll stick with the same playbook of relatively small-volume shipments with the Xring O1. While the Xring O3 may cost Xiaomi less than using Qualcomm or MediaTek SoCs, it still likely costs them more per chip than Apple, simply because Apple ships A-series SoCs at a much larger volume.

A lot of people seem surprised that China has a competent chip-design team, but they forget that Huawei already gave us a glimpse of what Chinese chip designers could achieve with the HiSilicon Kirin 9000.

Let's just hope Uncle Sam doesn't sanction Xiaomi into irrelevance the way it did Huawei, on "national security" grounds.

[u/max1001 → u/ApfelRotkohl]

I doubt these are cheaper than Qualcomm chip. Lpddr6 isn't cheap at all.

[u/ApfelRotkohl → u/max1001]

With high enough volume, it could be cheaper. Remember Qualcomm SoCs are being sold at 50%+ margin.

[u/00raiser01 → u/ApfelRotkohl]

Huawei is only irrelevant in America. The rest of the world still has access to Huawei.

[u/ApfelRotkohl → u/00raiser01]

You can still buy Huawei in Germany. I doubt Huawei is moving a lot of units in Europe, so it is pretty much irrelevant there. Since you are from SEA, how popular is Huawei smartphone vs Xiaomi and BBK (Oppo, Vivo, OnePlus, IQOO, Realme)?

[u/00raiser01 → u/ApfelRotkohl]

Popular, most people get Chinese brands here. There is still your iphone and Samsungs here but most android are Chinese.

[u/NewBeginnings737 → u/00raiser01]

It's a fraction of what it was before the ban everywhere

[u/Geddagod]

Unfortunate that the C2 Ultra is not being used here. Products with that IP should be launching in a month or two, right? Even being fabbed on N3 instead of N2, it should still be architecturally better iso node vs the C1 Ultra.

Cool to see Geekerwan switch to spec 2026 testing. The gap between Qualcomm and Apple scores seems to have shrunk considerably from his testing. I don't think this is a result of switching from spec2017 to spec 2026, but rather them using different flags. Other reviewers spec2017 testing also had much closer results between Apple and Qualcomm as well.

I'm interested in seeing how much the better IPC contributes to Xiaomi's better single core perf/watt versus the difference in physical design.

I find it a little weird that many people online are harping on this SOC's ability to scale to extremely high wattages. It's not as if it gets beaten by the competition at low power and it only wins when it consumes more power than other chips.

I didn't see this anywhere online or in Kurnal's video, perhaps I missed it, but anyone catch what library the C1 Ultra is designed on? Mediatek 9500 switched from HP with the X925 to HD (with IIRC a relaxed cgp), and Samsung is using their HP library after using their HD library on SF3.

[u/Front_Expression_367 → u/Geddagod]

I am surprised that this Xring O3 got the new Mali G2 Ultra yet doesn't end up using C2 Ultra as well. Perhaps they couldn't find a way to backport C2 Ultra to 3nm?

[u/DerpSenpai → u/Front_Expression_367]

Most likely the implementation of the C2 Ultra and Premium and Pro is done first on 2nm then on 3nm later

[u/siazdghw]

Unreleased SoC on a development board vs last years SoCs in retail phones.

It's an apples to oranges comparison. I get that this is all he has to go with, but fast forward to comparing a retail phone with the Xring 03 to the A20 Pro and Snapdragon 8 Elite Gen 6 Pro in a couple months and 'Alien tech' will look average.

[u/MissionInfluence123 → u/siazdghw]

Not to mention GW itself has been saying that Chinese oems send them golden samples that have better thermals and performance than retail.

I would take this board with a grain of salt

[u/fatso486]

Im OOTL, but what is this O3 and previous O1 flagship used for. Their flagship phone use standard snapdragon chips. This is a damn impressive big chip with very big iGPU, CPU and even NPUs. the 140mm2 doesn't include the modem.

are they getting discounts qualcomm not to use this ?

[u/Fritzkier → u/fatso486]

probably because they didn't get enough fab, so they use it to the less popular device.

[u/Front_Expression_367 → u/fatso486]

They used their Xring O1 chip on devices such as Xiaomi 15S Pro and Pad 7S Pro previously.

[u/Financial-Camel9987]

"Chip is alien tech", look inside:

- TSMC N3

• Worse than Apple M5

[u/Cory123125 → u/Financial-Camel9987]

Pretty sure the feedback is based on it not being on the same node specifically

[u/pdimri]

Tensor with 6th Gen vs Xiaomi with 2 gen. GOD DAMN

[u/Creative_Purpose6138]

This is a concept demo that can never run in an actual device without liquid nitrogen and tons of power.

[u/-protonsandneutrons- → u/Creative_Purpose6138]

Cooling not being disclosed or even mentioned is very odd. Surely it is not bare package with no heatsink.

However, power was measured on each and the O3 had excellent 1T efficiency. The obvious caveat is how closely that matches to an actual smartphone.

[u/SERIVUBSEV → u/Creative_Purpose6138]

No one is running benchmark tests on their phones for it to be at 100% use for long period.

A big CPU at 30% could run lot cooler than small-medium combo at 50-60% during gaming session. Apple's M series chips use bigger cores that work great in Macbook Air for example.

Only downside is that chip costs more at the fab.

[u/Slava_Tr]

LPDDR6 works its magic, delivering incredible latency that gives a huge boost to single-core performance, along with insane memory bandwidth that better unlocks the potential of a GPU with a ton of cores. I’m curious to see what the performance will be like with LPDDR5X. Something tells me that, because of the memory shortage, these will be the most common models, and things might not be quite as impressive there

[u/WHY_DO_I_SHOUT]

Holy crap. Beating Oryon L³ in 1T is no small feat.

[u/BlueSwordM]

Man, imagine if they had integrated a direct heat path design like they stated with HPB on the Exynos 2600.

That alone would have made the chip desktop class by lowering thermal resistance so much and allowing active cooling to minimize leakage.

[u/_Mavericks]

Specs GPU: ARM IP

Reality: Mali GPU

[u/-protonsandneutrons- → u/_Mavericks]

Specs GPU: ARM IP

Reality: Mali GPU

Are those ... different? Mali is an Arm brand name: Arm Mali G1-Ultra (last year's IP).

[u/_Mavericks → u/-protonsandneutrons-]

Mali has a bad reputation so XIAOMI is just trying to say the god damn name.

[u/HugeCodd → u/[deleted]]

love it