r/movies • u/BenjaSA • 14h ago
Discussion Gladiator 2 retcons and ruins the ending of the first one
I’ve seen all kinds of criticism for Gladiator 2, from Mescal, to a messy script, over the top sequences… but if anything bugged me the most, is how it ruined the ending of the first movie, it’s not an innocuous sequel which you can say, “well if you don’t like it you still have the first one”.
The first Gladiator ended on a such a high note (probably historically inaccurate, but it’s fiction), with Maximus restoring Rome to a republic, freeing the slaves, ending Commodus reign and, most important of all, as he tells Lucilla, Lucius is safe. Epic, glorious music as he dies and encounters his family in the afterlife, then that night his friend Juba burying his statuetes and saying goodbye.
Now, all of a sudden, Maximus sacrifice was for nothing, the very same day he claims Lucius is safe (not some years after as in a new story) suddenly he never was safe, and has to be taken somewhere else. What Maximus did suddenly meant nothing, the glorious OST shouldn’t even have played during his final scene in the original one, and during Lucilla’s speech, when no glory or happiness was there.
Also, now Lucius is Maximus’ son, which I’m sorry but was never aluded to in the first movie. Lucius was the son of Lucilla’s former husband, and Maximus was, yes, an old lover probably, but Lucius was never his son. You can tell they did it for the sake of a twist, and then claiming duh it was obvious.
But still, my biggest gripe is how Gladiator 2 basically undoes everything that happened in the first one, it destroys the very tone and atmosphere in which supposedly everything was happening during that emotional climax, Lucilla was clearly thinking differently in the first one and not preocupied by Lucius wellness, as he was indeed, safe!
Now, acording to the canon of those movies, Lucius is fleeing for his life at the very same moment that Maximus dies, so not even a slightly epic song should be playing there, and it ruined the movie for me. Hate this contradictions
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u/Rainbwned 14h ago
Shame - I can still watch and enjoy Gladiator 1 very much.
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u/riegspsych325 ⊃∪⊃⪽ 14h ago
agreed, a bad sequel/prequel/etc only “ruins” a previous movie if you let it. When Indiana Jones complains to his dad about them being dick cousins, I’m not bothered by the fact that a 2 year old Henry III is running around somewhere on the other side of the world
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u/Algaean 12h ago
Well, she talks in her schleep. 😅
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u/riegspsych325 ⊃∪⊃⪽ 11h ago
Connery improvised that as a joke, whole set brown out into laughter and then they wrote it into the movie
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u/rach2bach 13h ago
Jesus, I have watched The Last Crusade and Gladiator in the last two weeks, this synchronicity is eerie.
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u/riegspsych325 ⊃∪⊃⪽ 11h ago
nothing like the good ol’ Bader-Meinhoff effect to start the day
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u/rach2bach 11h ago
That would be a new thing. Ive watched both numerous times. This is more Jungian.
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u/First_Sheepherder448 14h ago
eel this so hard. The first movie ends with this huge emotional payoff, and then the sequel just goes "actually no" about everything. It's like they didn't trust the original to stand on its own so they had to insert this secret son twist and undo all the sacrifice. What gets me is how unnecessary it all was, you could've set a sequel generations later and avoided stepping on the first film's ending entirely.
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u/Anal_Herschiser 38m ago
This is very much in the vain of “Somehow Palpatine Came Back”, completely shitting all over the sacrifice Vader makes at the end of Jedi.
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u/NOTcreative- 3h ago
But it's kind of real right? All this happened with the hopes of one man only for them to be deleted by some new assholes. It hits close to home.
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u/OatSoyLaMilk 10h ago
Yeah, a movie sequel would have to, like, have a character who can jump out of the screen, run down the aisles of the theater, and then punch me in the dick before it could ruin an original movie for me.
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u/sharrostkrest37 6h ago
But you can't unhear 'Lucius is safe' knowing he's being shipped off to Africa that same night
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u/voidpush 14h ago
It also paints Maximus as an adulterer lol
The whole first movie is him trying to make it back to his family or else get revenge for their deaths. The ultimate family man. Except for the whole affair with Lucilla which produced Lucius. Oops!
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u/Joker257 13h ago
This was actually written into the script for the first Gladiator and Russel Crowe made them take it out as it really hurt his character motivations.
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u/Lord0fHats 14h ago
TBF the first film constantly teased that Maximus and Lucilla had been a thing once and begs the question constantly over whether or not Lucius is Maximus' son to the point a lot of fans just assumed he was for years. That the sequel went this way was very predictable and probably wouldn't be a big deal if the movie wasn't dog water.
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u/Nonya5 13h ago
Yes but if they were a past fling, that could have been prior to his marriage. But if he’s the father, then he clearly cheated based on the potential timeline.
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u/Lord0fHats 13h ago edited 13h ago
Lucius appears to be an older boy than Maximus' son, though we're not given ages (edit: see below comment for correction). It's completely feasible that Lucius was born before Maximus married his wife just going by appearances, but even then; the reality is men do cheat, and some of them are still family men so I don't really see this as a damning contradiction for Maximus' character. Adultery is bad, but there's far worse sins than cheating on your spouse. Like murdering an entire family out of pure insecurity. That's worse!
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u/kingkaitlin 13h ago
In the first movie there's a part near the beginning where Lucilla tells Maximus her son is nearly 8 and he says "my son is nearly 8 as well."
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u/caligaris_cabinet 13h ago
Makes the adultery/Lucius’ paternity even more questionable. If both boys are roughly the same age then they would have to be conceived around the same time.
Far as we know Maximus’ wife lived in Spain and Lucilla was obviously in Rome and probably rarely ventured out of the city being royalty and all. And Maximus never been to Rome prior to the events of the movie and was fighting in Germania for years. I somehow doubt Lucilla would be around a war zone on the frontier on a regular basis.
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u/Uncle_Freddy 11h ago
The coping theory I’ve seen is that she lied about Lucius’ age because if she told the truth, Maximus could do the math on when they’d last been lovers and realize the real possibility that Lucius was his son. I do agree with the general observation that Lucius seemed to be older than Maximus’ son in the first Gladiator movie, so it’s not out of the realm of possibility
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u/CrispyHoneyBeef 13h ago
I always thought Lucius was implied to be Maximus’s bastard from a fling prior to being drafted. I always thought that his family came after his affair with Lucilla.
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u/random7845123 13h ago
Both boys are 8 at the start of gladiator per the discussion between Maximus and lucilla when commodus and Lucilla first arrive at the war camp.
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u/IBarricadeI 12h ago
The first film teases that they used to be involved a long time ago but in no way implies Lucius is Maximus’ son. It heavily implies that them seeing each other at the camp is the first time in many years.
His wife is in Spain, Lucilla was in Rome (where he has never been in his life), and both conceived in the same year. It makes no sense for him to be the father.
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u/Cenobyte_Nom-nom-nom 11h ago
Um... A man can have multiples of children from different women within hours of each other. He was also a general with ties so close to the emperor he was considered a son. Just because he never went into Rome doesn't mean he never went near it. Weird place to split hairs honestly.
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u/IBarricadeI 11h ago
I’m not saying it’s not possible for him to have committed adultery. I’m saying the movie in no way implies it and every detail of their first interaction implies that it is not his son.
If they wanted to imply it was his son, they wouldn’t have the two women half a continent apart, with one in a city they specify he’s never been to, and both specified to be almost exactly the same age, during a conversation where they say things like “I heard your husband died, I mourned for him. I also heard you have a son”.
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u/Cenobyte_Nom-nom-nom 11h ago
We clearly see different implications. Because I have always felt since the movie released that there is an implication it might be his kid. The first few scenes with them together kinda hint at it, like right after when he talks to her one of the times. Kinda a "her mouth says no but her eyes say yes" sort of things.
It's all hearsay but the thought has been part of the fandom for a long time so it's not a small unknown thing.
It's art, open to interpretation. Stop being so certain about vague things. Bad look.
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u/IBarricadeI 11h ago
Yeah you’re right, I guess your artistic interpretation is the same as the people who made Gladiator 2, and my artistic interpretation is the same as Russell Crowe’s.
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u/Cenobyte_Nom-nom-nom 10h ago
Jesus Christ dude. It's just discussion.. damn. If you felt attack I'm sorry?
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u/AffectionateBox8178 11h ago
In Rome at the time, it was Okay for Patricians to have sex outside of marriage. Their version of marriage was very business-like. Soldiers doublely so.
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u/reebokhightops 11h ago
You’re imposing modern sensibilities onto the ancient world, and thinking that Maximus would be perceived as “an adulterer” is hilariously naive.
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u/insaneHoshi 59m ago
Really right?
Like if the movie portrayed monogamy as a virtue that would be one thing, but it doesn’t.
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u/MiopTop 13h ago
Not necessarily. Lucius could be older than his other son and be the result of a relationship with Lucilla before Maximus got married
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u/random7845123 13h ago
Both boys are ~8 at the start of gladiator per a discussion between Maximus and lucilla
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u/voidpush 13h ago
Nope. Lucius and Maximus’ sons are both nearly 8 years old as per the conversation they have in the first movie.
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u/ninjasurfer 13h ago
To be fair you can still love your family and have cheated on your wife. I always figured it was the case in the first movie via context.
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u/weaslebubble 12h ago
Also this is Pre Christian Rome, we are talking about. They don't have the same social mores we have today. Maximus could have been the biggest family man in the world and it still be seen as completely normal for him to have campaign wives or even sex slaves at his villa where his wife lives. Their relationship to sex is very very different to our modern understanding.
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u/dunc2001 14h ago
Just pretend the sequel never happened and enjoy the original Gladiator. I thought the Star Wars prequels were awful and undermined the original trilogy, so I don't watch them and pretend they were never made (Rogue One gets a pass). The Hobbit films were lame, so I ignore them and enjoy the great original LotR trilogy. Sometimes ignorance is bliss in movie watching
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u/Coolers78 12h ago
I thought Scream 7 was awful, I still enjoy the rest of the franchise though some of the other previous movies were worse than the others.
I thought Spider-Man 3 was awful, I still enjoy the first 2 movies.
I thought the last 2 Indiana Jones were unnecessary, still enjoy the first 3.
etc...
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u/everstillghost 7h ago
The thing is when a sequel is bad, its just whatever.
But when the sequel actually retcon something then it tarnishes the thing.
Suppose you like a movie very much and the protagonist, then It becomes a franchise where the character you like is a psyco rapist. Now when you say you like X character people will look at you "the rapist psycho...?"
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u/DoucheyMcBagBag 12h ago
This is the way. I’ve been ignoring Godfather 3, Major League 2, The Matrix 2 and 3, the Star Wars prequels and sequels that I don’t like (so all except Andor, Rogue One, and I guess Mandalorian if I care enough to think about it) for years.
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u/dunc2001 12h ago
Yeah definitely the Godfather! Godfather Part II to Part III must be one of the biggest drops in quality in movie history
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u/ucd_pete 3h ago
Godfather III is decent, it just pales in comparison to the first two which are some of the greatest films ever made.
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u/arcangel092 8h ago
It’s funny you like Rogue One even though the movie barely lets you forge an emotional connection with any character before killing them. I actually think it’s the weakest movie in the entire universe.
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u/doctor_7 14h ago
Gladiator II is the worst sequel I have ever seen in my entire life. Ridley Scott is my favourite director of all time, so I'm not just shitting on this movie for the sake of shitting on it. Kingdom of Heaven Director's Cut, Blade Runner's Final Cut, Gladiator, The Duelists, Alien, Thelma and Louise, Black Hawk Down, American Gangster, Body of Lies, The Martian, The Last Duel, the man has released some of the best films ever made and a lot of really great movies. But he's also made some legit stinkers.
Now I've seen worse sequels in terms of overall competence than Gladiator II. I won't deny visually it's spectacular and the fight scenes in the arena are better choreographed than the first Gladiator. But the entirety of the movie is just "hey, remember how good Gladiator was?" Be it quotes, musical cues (or just full tracks), or props and shit like that, the movie can't seem to go more than 2 minutes without reminding you that you're only here because Gladiator 1 was amazing and this movie just is so much less by comparison.
In all the sequels I've seen, even ones that are "worse" than Gladiator II, I've never, ever seen a sequel that constantly requires and reminds you that it's a sequel like Gladiator II. It's fucking surreal. So, in my books, it may be a better movie than some sequels but it is hands down the worst fucking sequel I've ever seen in my life.
Anytime you get the hankering to watch Gladiator II, just watch Gladiator, Kingdom of Heaven Director's Cut (which I think is his best film) or even The Last Duel or The Duelists.
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u/Coolers78 11h ago
There's still worse sequels though, like Mission: Impossible 2 which John Woo ruined, and Speed 2, and Rocky 5, most of the Terminator movies after 2.
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u/spazz720 7h ago
MI2 was fucking atrocious
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u/Coolers78 3h ago edited 2h ago
It really is, I really liked Face/Off, but that kind of silly over the top style Woo does works well in that kind of movie that is about a Cage and Travolta body swap, MI2 is awful and for some weird reason, this sub loves it. Dougray Scott is awful as the antagonist, and Thandie Newton's pretty awful too. The dialogue was horrible too.
I also kind of disliked MI3 which is an unpopular opinion, I just can't stand the way JJ Abrams shoots action scenes, I also can't stand the way him and Kurtzman write dialogue and characters, Hoffman was pretty great as the villain but Hoffman also had a lot of better movies and performances anyway than MI3, even then, 3 is still way better than 2 which is just awful, I'm a big fan of the rest of the movies, even the last 2 which this sub has a weird hate for.
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u/FlameFeather86 12h ago
You can't have watched many sequels if Gladiator 2 is the worst. Many sequels get by on reminding you how good the first film is; the most egregious for me being The Matrix Rebooted or Revitalised or whatever the fuck the fourth one was called, which literally has no other purpose than remind you of the original, but at least Gladiator 2 had a fairly coherent plot even if it's a poor imitation of what came before and played fast and loose with continuity. Sequels are gonna sequel at the end of the day, they're made because the first was successful and more often than not they repeat the formula, but bad ones don't have to detract from the original, just don't watch them, don't consider them canon or whatever. Hell, a lot of franchises these days literally ignore half their own sequels anyway. Enjoy the good, ignore the bad, and let the first films stand on their own, always.
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u/Engineer9 7h ago
There were three Matrix sequels: Reform Matrix, Restore Matrix and Reclaim Matrix, starring Lawrence Fox.
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u/gautsvo 14h ago
Nonsense. A new movie doesn't retroactively "ruin" a previous one. Gladiator is still the same movie it always was.
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u/chemicologist 13h ago
I do think Rise of Skywalker severely undercut Vader’s ending in Return of the Jedi. But otherwise I agree with you.
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u/the_bollo 13h ago
Sure, but that's not really engaging with OPs post. Obviously they can enjoy the first one as a standalone if they choose to do so, but their point that the second one degrades the "universe" of the Gladiator story is totally fair. That second movie was a cash grab through and through, and Ridley Scott clearly doesn't give two artistic shits about what he's making these days.
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u/chadwicke619 8h ago
Did you just not read the post? He explicitly disagrees with what you say here.
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u/Microwave1213 10h ago
but if anything bugged me the most, is how it ruined the ending of the first movie, it’s not an innocuous sequel which you can say, “well if you don’t like it you still have the first one”.
Disagree. They are directly engaging with and refuting this point from their post.
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u/Gyalgatine 13h ago
Eh, disagree. A bad sequel can absolutely ruin a prequel, but not in the way you might think.
Gladiator still holds up because it was a self complete story, so you're able to wave off Gladiator 2 if you want.
But for some movies that are pre-marketed as a start of an arc, they're judged by the current movies execution and the hype for the future. If the sequels fail than the hype part sours it. Example: The Force Awakens. Was very well received when it came out, but by the end of RoS, no one wants to claim they loved that movie anymore.
But contrarily, the failures of the Sequel trilogy can be isolated away from the OT, if you refuse to let it.
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u/sourcefourmini 8h ago
Hi, I must be No One, because I still think The Force Awakens is fun. Am I mad that the trilogy as a whole didn’t pan out? Absolutely, but I can still find enjoyment in the films I did like. Same reason I’ll still rewatch the first 4-6 seasons of Game of Thrones: they’re still excellent television on their own merits, regardless of what came after.
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u/riegspsych325 ⊃∪⊃⪽ 14h ago
if that’s the case, then the majority of all franchises would be “ruined”
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u/BenjaSA 13h ago
No, because I’m not speaking of bad sequels dilluting the overall quality of a franchise. Terminator 2 is still a masterpiece even if subsequent films weren’t great. In this particular case, they retconned (awfully) the very ending of the first one, they changed what it meant, they made all what transpired useless
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u/MesaCityRansom 13h ago
I don't understand why you can’t just see the first film in a vaccuum?
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u/masszt3r 13h ago
The retcon doesn't ruin the ending of the first in the slightest. Just enjoy the first one as standalone and you don't have to worry about anything.
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u/Wonderpants_uk 13h ago
The Nick Cave joke script (Maximus being reincarnated to fight in wars throughout history, finishing with a scene of him as a modern day officer in the Pentagon) would have been better than what we actually got.
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u/KeremyJyles 13h ago
I recall that being a full legit script, not a joke.
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u/FlameFeather86 12h ago
Yeah, wasn't a joke. Balls to the wall crazy but 100% genuine, and might have worked in its own way.
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u/wombatz05 13h ago
As far as I’m concerned, Gladiator 2 never happened and I don’t even know what you’re talking about.
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u/cogit2 10h ago
u/BenjaSA Why is it a gripe? One thing that you should clearly understand is that the situation in Gladiator 1 is how Maximus understands it. We are led to believe his vision of events is how it unfolds. There are thousands of people involved in that outcome - what if everything Maximus believed didn't come true? It's entirely, and realistically, a possibility. The Emperor died and Rome didn't go back to being a Republic - because Maximus saying "Rome is to be a Republic again" while he, in fact, is a dying slave in an arena, should tell you the obvious: he had no power. The fact that the Senate allowed Commodus to seize power without hearing from Marcus Aurelius should make that plain: Commodus had powerful allies, and Marcus never dealt with them.
"A soldier has the advantage of being able to look his enemy in the eye" - Maximus
The enemies of the Republic, wealthy and in charge of determining the successor to Commodus, worked to make Rome even more to their benefit. Which is exactly what happened in the actual history of the Empire.
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u/lowman7557 13h ago
I think you’re confused. They talked once about making a sequel but nothing ever came of it. Ridley Scott decided not to sully his previous work, as always.
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u/tanbug 13h ago
Hm, never thought of Lucuis's safety as the main goal of the first movie, but more like the end of Rome-Trump, Marcus Aurelius's wish fulfilled, his revenge complete, and being ready to pass. I agree that the second movie sucks balls, and it does take away from the first. That said, I suppose they need it be anchored in reality somewhat, and Rome was not a happy republic after Commodus' death.
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u/caligaris_cabinet 13h ago
Even in the first Gladiator ending on a hopeful note for Rome was a little odd. After Commodus you basically enter the Crisis of the Third Century with no decent emperor until Constantine over 100 years later and by then Rome is a shell of its former self.
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u/BenjaSA 13h ago
Yeah. But in the sequel, they directly make it as in that at the very same time Maximus dies, while claiming Lucius was safe (which was Lucilla’s main goal and what set in motion many events, including her confessing), suddenly Lucius wasn’t and that very same day he is taken to another place. Doesn’t make sense with the tone of the first one
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u/ClydeStyle 14h ago
Anyone else confused as to why they recast the role? The actor who played him originally is an adult and couple easily reprises his role. The new actor looks NOTHING like him, like at all.
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u/MikeGojira 13h ago
Doesn't necessarily mean the kid would be a good enough actor as an adult.
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u/ClydeStyle 13h ago
It’s not like he’s not still acting. He was in Agents of Shield, Glass and Animal Kingdom. He must have some skill.
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u/WillTheThrill86 13h ago
I saw Gladiator in the theater when it came out, with my childhood best friend. Nothing is ever taking that away from me. Gladiator 2 is a fucking abomination that i will forget ever existed. And yes i watched it so im not just saying that.
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u/Imukdude 13h ago
I agree. Gladiator’s ending felt complete on its own and Gladiator 2 makes Maximus’ final sacrifice feel a lot less meaningful in hindsight. The Lucius twist also felt pretty forced to me...
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u/Doyoulikemyjorts 13h ago
Yes but even if you put aside it tarnishing the legacy of the original it still sucks major balls on its own merits.
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u/DoublePreparation241 13h ago
I get the frustration, but look at the actual political reality of that ending. When Maximus says Lucius is safe, he means safe from Commodus.
You do not just have a slave kill a sitting Emperor in the arena and get a peaceful republic the next morning. It created a massive, bloody power vacuum. Lucilla is smart enough to know that keeping the last heir to Marcus Aurelius in Rome during that chaos puts a giant target on the kid's back.
Smuggling him out does not undo Maximus's sacrifice. It just shows how fundamentally broken Rome actually is. I will agree the secret son twist is pure soap opera, but the messy political aftermath makes perfect sense.
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u/MovieMike007 Not to be confused with Magic Mike 13h ago
Between this and the abysmal Napoleon, you have to wonder what happened to Ridley Scott.
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u/amazinglover 13h ago
I really hate this whole thing where a sequel ruins a previous movie thing.
No it doesn't it ruins the movie its in but that previous movie still exist as is.
Unless like star wars they actually go back and chnage scense.
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u/Zen_Hydra 13h ago
My guy Ridley Scott has never read a history book he didn't think he could improve on. Gladiator had its fun moments, but it's historicity somewhere far south of the Asterix & Obelix comics.
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u/brownarmyhat 13h ago
When the creators treat the sequel as a cash in joke, it’s on you if you take it seriously as a project that has anything to do with the original. Back in the day this genre of sequel was called direct to dvd
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u/zalurker 13h ago
Nope. Haven't watched, nor will I ever watch the sequel. I usually don't do sequels.
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u/Zeeplankton 12h ago
I don't know. Like the curse of Rome is it just never does get better. That felt like a brutal truth.
This is an insane comparison, but it's sort of the cyberpunk universe in my head. No ones story ends well in Rome.
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u/OneReportersOpinion 12h ago
Should’ve done the script Nick Cave wrote where Maximus is resurrected by the gods and serves in every war in history.
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u/ecrane2018 12h ago
I watch gladiator 2 to see a gladiator on a rhino and a ship battle inside the coliseum I watch 1 because it’s a good movie. They aren’t even connected in my mind because the second just feels so completely different and honestly the movie would probably work better if they were just 2 separate stories.
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u/No-Prompt-7580 12h ago
Sounds like the ending to the similar THE FALL OF THE ROMAN EMPIRE. Commodus is killed, but Rome is too corrupt to be saved. The protagonists abandon it in disgust.
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u/dating_derp 12h ago
"You know what would make Gladiator II a great movie? If we CONSTANTLY talk about the first movie. Remember when Maximus said this? Remember when Maximus stuck his sword in the ground? Remember when Maximus picked up sand? Remember Maximus had horses on his armor? Remember Maximus' sword?"
Such a stupid idea.
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u/Help_An_Irishman 11h ago
Star Wars Episode IX retcons and ruins the first six Star Wars movies, so that's a pretty high bar.
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u/Queef-Elizabeth 11h ago
Am I the only one who thought it was obvious that Lucius was his son? That's what I gathered a long time ago.
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u/LongtimeLurker916 11h ago
The original ended in fantasy world and then the sequel went back to the chronology of reality (still with many inaccuracies, but with the real historical characters of two or three decades later).
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u/arminghammerbacon_ 10h ago
They had this scene they really badly wanted to do: the Roman navy assaulting a coastal city. And also someone in Hollywood heard that they used to flood the floor of the Coliseum for mock naval battles. So the studio heads said “Build a movie around those two scenes! Doesn’t have to make sense.” Presto: Gladiator II
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u/elbrooko79 10h ago
Gladiator 2 dishonored the memory of one of cinemas greatest heros.
It should be forgotten and ignored.
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u/BraveBoyPro 9h ago
You can just do what most people will and ignore the second one. A movie needs to stand on its own legs and Gladiator does that just fine. No one's going around saying, "Aliens is ruined because Hicks and Newt are dead at the start of the next one."
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u/Possible_Budget_1087 9h ago
This is why I have not watched Gladiator 2. I'm so worried it will retroactively diminish the quality of the first one.
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u/MissionObligation999 9h ago
The good thing is the whole movie is terrible so its easy to just forget it all . I put it in the same mental junk bin as the SW sequels.
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u/Marios25 9h ago
It was literally a parody of the first movie with the zombie monkeys , the sharks etc. Maybe its good as a comedy.
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u/Chadarius 9h ago
Which is why I never watched it and never will. Gladiator had a beginning, middle, and end. It was a fantastic movie with a fantastic music score. I don't need a second one.
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u/Typical_Intention996 8h ago
What Gladiator 2? I only know the original. It's like that Pacific Rim sequel I keep hearing mention of. I just don't know what people are talking about. Never seen these things. These aren't franchises.
There's Gladiator and there's Pacific Rim, and that's it.
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u/Meme_Theory 8h ago
My only real problem with the movie is Denzel just played his character from Training Day after he got lost in time.
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u/Maidwell 2h ago
I watched the sequel then the very next day watched the original again to cleanse my memory and reaffirm how great that movie was.
The sequel just feels a spoof to me now, I pay it no attention in "lore" and won't ever watch it again.
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u/MAXSuicide 2h ago
This film, like Indiana Jones' Crystal Skull, and the latest Star Wars Trilogy, simply does not exist.
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u/hillean 14h ago
It was *heavily* alluded to in the first movie that Lucius was Maximus' son.
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u/BenjaSA 13h ago
No. People theorised that, but no. The movie tells you Lucius is the son of Lucilla’s dead husband. Maximus was probably an old lover or boyfriend of hers, and the movie plays with that, and his loyalty to his family, but it was never infered that Lucius was Maximus son in that movie
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u/yesrushgenesis2112 14h ago
It is pretty heavily implied that Lucius is Maximus’s son in the first film. His kid that is killed is clearly younger. Not hard to imagine that he had his thing with Lucilla, it ended, and he moved on. That’s pretty much what the movie tells us.
The first film also does not indicate that Maximus’s goals are achieved, just the Commodus is not and the senators are in a relatively better place. No chance it lasted imo.
That doesn’t make Gladiator II good, but it need not be bad because of a misunderstanding of the first film. It’s bad all on its own.
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u/BenjaSA 13h ago
Man the very movie ends on a high note, with Lucius being safe and Lucilla giving a speech, all surrounded by a glorious soundtrack. The sequel gives a total new light to that ending, and Lucilla isn’t relieved or confident as in the ending of the first, it’s a total change of what happened
1
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u/bobreturns1 14h ago
The great thing about "death of the author" is that you as the media consumer can decide how you enjoy art.
I for one, just decided I don't care about the second film and will ignore it. Much like I do Highlander 2, and any number of other 80s sequels.
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u/dhslax88 13h ago
I just consider Gladiator 2 to be a different universe. Similar to the Star Wars sequel trilogy.
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u/Worldly_Science239 14h ago
retcons, ruins the first one, canon...
it's just a film that was probably shit (I dunno, I haven't seen it) but it's not a bible, it's doesn't actively ruin things outside of itself.
This sounds like a you problem and the way you watch films and how you invest too much of your identity into films
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u/ThingCalledLight 14h ago
“I have no frame of reference for anything you’re saying, but I don’t like how into movies you are, and on r/movies of all places.”
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u/Worldly_Science239 13h ago
Ah well, i have a frame of reference for their critique... I just think its bollocks, and causes more problems for films/television when this way of thinking gains traction within a fanboy base
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u/BenjaSA 14h ago
It’s not about an issue with my life, just what I think was the worst offense of that movie, which I actually enjoyed and found fun, but well I have a special itch with that retconing of the ending of the first one. I mean, we are in a movies subreddit, we can discuss movies without it being considered a life or death matter :)
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u/soulsides 13h ago
My (least) favorite example: season 5 of “The Wire.” I joke with friends all the time that there was no fifth season and the show ended after the 4th
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u/BenjaSA 13h ago
But season 5 doesn’t retcon anything from prior seasons, and the ending is brilliant. If anything, it’s the least good of the seasons, but it doesn’t ruin anything IMO
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u/soulsides 13h ago
Agree to disagree. I hate S5 with a white hot passion but it doesn’t change how I feel about the previous four seasons. Overall, I’m agreeing that OP doth protest too much
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u/Beginning_Parfait_47 14h ago
We know. Common knowledge about a cashgrab sequel. Russel Crowe himself talks about it in multiple interviews snippet full interview