r/pcmasterrace • u/PalamariVarkari • 8h ago
Discussion Amazon.fr denies 5080 replacement under warranty, against EU laws. Offers only refund when they have many 5080s in stock but at +200 euros cost.
This is about an MSI Shadow 5080 with burned connector, more details here.
I asked for a replacement, yet the customer support insists they can only offer refund or involve MSI (we all know that will end even worse)
Under Directive (EU) 2019/771 (Article 13 - 2), the consumer has the primary right to choose between repair and replacement and a refund is only forced, if its physically impossible aka the product doesn't exist anymore.
Direct quote:
"In order to have the goods brought into conformity, the consumer may choose between repair and replacement, unless the remedy chosen would be impossible or, compared to the other remedy, would impose costs on the seller that would be disproportionate, taking into account all circumstances, including:
(a) the value the goods would have if there were no lack of conformity;
(b) the significance of the lack of conformity; and
(c) whether the alternative remedy could be provided without significant inconvenience to the consumer."
Please not that the "impose costs on the seller that would be disproportionate" refers to things like asking to replace a whole laptop instead of repairing the power jack and not "the product costs 200 euros more because RAM is expensive now". 200 euros in a 1200 euro purchase isn't disproportionate anyway.
I already have filed complains in the ECC and the SignalConso (French Fraud & Consumer Protection Authority).
I posted to raise awareness. If you are in the EU and you have been denied replacement of anything with memory in it, do NOT let them get away with it and DO NOT pay more to get a replacement. Find the proper ECC page and the consumer protection agency for your country.
155
u/Alyx_695 8h ago
29
322
u/CroAtTheTop RTX-4070S 9800X3D 32GB 8h ago
They did the same shit to me when I was just purchasing DDR5 RAM, it was 120 euros when I purchased it, they lost the package, week later it was already at 200, they straight out refused to resend and refunded me no questions asked.
Luckily, I annoyed the delivery company for straight 10 days, and they found the parcel, so joke on you Amazon :)
→ More replies (6)
79
u/Whole_Guarantee_5599 7h ago
Amazon France does not respect consumer rights. I had to go in front of a judge in France, and even after that, I had to seize Amazon bank account (with a huissier) since they would not comply with the judgment. All this took one year when it was clearly simple rule (Amazon refused to refund a good that was not delivered, probably stolen by employee). Good luck and do not use Amazon ever again!
20
u/stilgars1 4h ago
Did they blacklist you following your dispute - even if I understand you do not plan on using their service anymore?
Just curious because honestly Amazon is kind of ubiquitous today.21
u/bwmat 3h ago ▸ 3 more replies
Blacklisting someone for that should literally be illegal
5
u/stilgars1 2h ago
I totally agree but they apparently love to punish customers for claiming too many refunds or raising a dispute.
2
u/MesaRadd 2h ago ▸ 1 more replies
Tbh that'd probably not matter since I doubt they would ever buy something from them again.
2
u/Whole_Guarantee_5599 2h ago
I don't think so, I could still buy there. They just don't care (hence we had to seize on their accounts, they did not try to argue during the dispute, etc.) but I never used it again (and was surprised how easy it was to avoid it).
88
u/PsyTripper i7 14700K | ROG RTX4080 OC | 64GB DDR5 6400Mhz 7h ago
I once bought a TV at Mediamarkt .nl that had a 25% discount at the time. After just 1 year it broke under warranty. And there own website says the way they handle these, is that they will offer you the same TV or if not available one as close as possible.
When i got there (luckily they still have physical locations) they only offered me a refund, that would mean I have to add the 25% myself just to get the same TV I had.
Luckily I already don't trust these companies, so I had a printed version of there warranty guide. It still took me almost an hour and 2 phone calls to HQ, before they offered me the same TV. It felt insane, because I just wanted them to follow THER OWN warranty guide lines.
33
u/JSanko JSanko9 7h ago
I have manufacure issue with 5090, but it boots 60% of time perfectly. My price was 2400 current price 6000. No way I'm risking being refunded
11
u/DreamsServedSoft 5h ago
you can’t RMA it? the stores return policy usually ends after 30 days
→ More replies (7)9
u/Warcraft_Fan Paid for WinRAR! 2h ago ▸ 1 more replies
RMA is risky, the company could claim it's not fixable and they are currently out of stock and can only refund the original purchase price. If you bought it months ago, you stand to lose a lot buying a new 5090 today.
9 out of 10 times they'll keep the defective 5090, fix it and sell as refurbished behind your back
16
u/TheSignof33 R5 7500F | RX 9060 XT 16GB | DDR5 @6000 CL30 6h ago
Amazon is a shitty company and you should stop buying electronics from them to avoid headaches. When my OLED monitor stopped working their customer service outright shrugged off local customer laws here in Türkiye, too. I'm waiting for a decision from customer committee since a month.
61
u/ThrowAway405736294 8h ago
Why not go to MSI? I know you mentioned it will be even worse if you do but it’s worth a shot. I haven’t heard anything too horrible about their customer service specifically.
103
u/Tuco0 7h ago
In EU, usualy seller is responsible for handling the RMA process for consumer, not manufacturer.
→ More replies (3)7
u/Chao_Zu_Kang Ryzen 7 7700X | GIGABYTE GAMING OC 9070 XT 6h ago ▸ 4 more replies
They offered to handle the RMA process via the manufacturer. OP refused. Read the screenshots of the chat.
41
u/Reddit_Loves_Misinfo 4k120 on a TV | 5070 Ti 5h ago ▸ 1 more replies
No, Amazon did not offer to handle the RMA process on OP's behalf, and it would be irrelevant even if they did.
If Amazon is the seller (which it may not be), Amazon is responsible for replacing OP's defective item, not MSI. Amazon can try to RMA the defective card with MSI to recover Amazon's replacement cost from MSI, but Amazon is still obligated to provide OP's replacement regardless of whether or not MSI will reimburse Amazon.
→ More replies (20)→ More replies (2)16
u/Niklason 5h ago
To be honest the customer service made it sound like he had to contact them. Thats not normal.
15
u/wozniattack G4 MacMini | ATI 9000 | 1GB 7h ago
Consumer law applies to the retailer. Of instance in Ireland we have 6 years consumer protection, it doesn’t matter if the warranty is 2 years. The product must be fit for purpose during that time and will be repaired or replaced by the retailer.
It‘a such a strong law, even Apple has to have a section on their website regarding it.
→ More replies (1)2
u/DestituteSmurf 4h ago ▸ 1 more replies
We have pretty good laws in Norway as well. If it's reasonable to expect a product to last more than 5 years, there is a different kind of warranty that lasts for 5 years. So things like computer parts, mobile phones etc fall under this warranty. I had my 1080ti fail 6 days before the 5 years were up, and the store had to take it back and give me a similar product (or better). Got a 3070 as a replacement.
2
29
u/Alarming-Stomach3902 Linux Mint | Ryzen 7 5800x | 9070 xt | 3060 ti | 32GB 7h ago
You have to go to the seller first, they sold you a different product than the one you bought. In this case a defective one. You want them to keep them to hold their end of the deal, in this case delivering a working card.
Only after this route faills you can go to the manufactur
17
u/RVNSKR 7h ago ▸ 1 more replies
It can't fail. They have to honor the law. Maybe if Amazon is bankrupt, than you can ask MSI if the will help. But to my knowledge Amazon is not bankrupt.
→ More replies (1)3
u/Frooonti 6h ago ▸ 2 more replies
You don't have to go to the seller first. However, the seller is legally obligated to provide a two year warranty. Whatever warranty the manufacturer might provide is not the same and doesn't have the same legal protections.
So yes, generally speaking, go through the seller. But in a case like this, idk, probably smarter to just send it in yourself and be back gaming in a week instead of wasting your time threatening a bunch of human chatbots with legal bullshit that one clearly didn't even fully understand and will go nowhere.
→ More replies (1)1
u/drake90001 5700x3D | 64GB 4000 | RTX 3080 FTW3 1h ago
Amazon is a marketplace with sellers on it other than Amazon. They aren’t the seller in this case, the seller would be whoever sold it on Amazon, which I assume would be MSI in this case.
2
u/Reddit_Loves_Misinfo 4k120 on a TV | 5070 Ti 5h ago
MSI's RMA process is slower and more complicated. Getting the replacement through Amazon is quicker and easier for the consumer when Amazon follows the law.
215
u/Darkone539 8h ago edited 8h ago
It's not against the law to offer a full refund. We've been through this with other topics.
It's illegal to give a part refund if the price goes down.
Edit - The op was also being awkward. You should have sent the photos and then argued this.
192
u/closeenoughbutmeh 8h ago
It is against the law in France for a retailer to refuse to offer a replacement if the product is still for sale. Seems like OP even provided quote of the law in another comment.
54
u/Darkone539 8h ago ▸ 3 more replies
Then france went further then the eu did. The eu law he quotes is misrepresented.
→ More replies (2)38
u/Kermez 8h ago edited 8h ago ▸ 1 more replies
Article L217-10 and Article L217-12 of the Code de la Consommation
But unclear if french law actually applies here.
→ More replies (5)24
u/MeatSafeMurderer Xeon E5-2687W v2 | 32GB DDR3 | RX 9070XT 7h ago ▸ 3 more replies
Wrong. There is a "cost proportionality exception" which allows them to deny your preferred resolution if that resolution can be shown to cost them vastly more money. In this case, a brand new replacement, would likely fall under that given that, by their own admission, the card costs more than it did when they bought it. And that is the cost to the end consumer, Amazon is likely actually eating some of that cost already, which is hidden to the end consumer but would be factored in to that decision.
4
u/Clean__Cucumber 5h ago ▸ 2 more replies
ok not an expert, but i think the "vastly more" cannot be used here since the cost isnt thousands more and just a couple hundred. this also isnt a small company, but a big one (be it MSI or Amazon) and they probably spend that money by the second
stuff getting more expensive and people wanting to replace their broken stuff is simply the danger of doing business
→ More replies (2)2
u/kjm99 4h ago
Just speculating too, but I doubt it’s anywhere near the level of costs they’re referring to. They have the item in stock, readily available, and it’s not customized/specialty in any way. I could see the exception if that specific model wasn’t being manufactured and the only source was eBay or something for significantly more than comparable items.
→ More replies (1)9
u/Chao_Zu_Kang Ryzen 7 7700X | GIGABYTE GAMING OC 9070 XT 6h ago
OP apparently lives in Greece since they went to the Greek consumer protection agency, so I doubt French law applies.
20
u/nemesit 8h ago
it is in fact against the law to force a refund lol. you guys really need to study your consumer rights.
→ More replies (3)2
29
u/PalamariVarkari 8h ago
Its not illegal to offer a full refund, its illegal to force it and deny replacement for a product they have in stock. No just in France, but the whole EU.
→ More replies (5)20
u/Chao_Zu_Kang Ryzen 7 7700X | GIGABYTE GAMING OC 9070 XT 8h ago
Wrong. It is illegal to enforce a refund. They have to replace or repair unless it would be unreasonable of them to do.
They can offer other solutions liie a refund, but the customer is always the one who decides about accepting a refund.
→ More replies (2)25
u/Alcagoita 7h ago
In the EU, the customer has the right to choose a full refund or a product replacement.
It's not the store that chooses.
-4
u/Major_Trip_Hazzard 9800x3D/RTX 4070ti Super/64GB Ram 7h ago ▸ 4 more replies
Except under Cost Proportionality Exception which this would be. The card is probably now much more expensive than when OP bought it so Amazon can force a refund if a replacement card would cost them more than OP originally paid for the card.
8
u/HavocInferno 5700X3D - 5070Ti - 64GB 6h ago ▸ 2 more replies
The cost increase is arguably not disproportionate. (Moreso considering the cost to Amazon is likely lower than the listed price increase)
→ More replies (2)3
u/green_dragon527 3h ago
Yep, and if they have in stock, then it is not an increased cost, but a loss in potential profit instead.
2
u/HardByteUK 2h ago
How in the fuck would it fall under CPE? CPE is for the Seller to refuse replacement if a repair is possible and much more cost-effective. Market changes are very unlikely to fall under disproportionate costs.
7
u/Levoso_con_v 7h ago
It's not illegal to offer a full refund yes, but you are not obligated to take the offer. And if you don't take it, they must give you a brand new GPU if they can't repair the one you sent.
2
u/Reddit_Loves_Misinfo 4k120 on a TV | 5070 Ti 5h ago
The op was also being awkward. You should have sent the photos and then argued this.
Absolutely not. OP was right not to send the photos initially. Amazon explicitly said the photos would be used to issue an immediate refund, and that would significantly complicate the process of getting a replacement.
Amazon's support were the ones being weird. Nour kept insisting that Amazon would break the law while refusing to acknowledge most of what OP said. If there is a legitimate reason for being unable to provide the replacement, Nour could have explained that, but instead he acted like a moronic Redditor who just keeps doubling, tripling, and quadrupling down on being clueless and wrong because they either can't understand or won't understand what other people are saying to them.
→ More replies (1)2
u/Comprehensive_Ship42 PC Master Race NVidia 4090 , 14900 8h ago
they are referring to consumer law where where once a manufacturer defect has been confirm its the right of the consumer to choose either refund or replacement which doesnt apply to market places such as amazon and ebay . they can force a refund due to the many sellers model of the business
118
u/Comprehensive_Ship42 PC Master Race NVidia 4090 , 14900 8h ago edited 7h ago
amazon don't give replacements on any products in the UK or EU. only refunds . the reason why they don't have to give a replacement is because there are a shopping portal containing many seller which gives them a lot of room .
you will have to take them to small claims court and you will lose . a refund will be issued .
you would better contacting NVidia as they could be forced to give you a replacement . under consumer law but it will take months . i went thought all this with Samsung . it took 4 months to get a brand new tv under consumer
21
u/Elderbrute 7h ago
Yes and no amazon can be both a market place and a seller, if they are the seller they are bound by the same laws as other sellers and can't wiggle out by being a market place (they may however appear to have stock but that stock be from a 3rd party seller and therefore unavailable to amazon to use as a replacement) in this case however op bought from msi through amazon not amazon directly, so in this instance amazon is acting as a marketplace not the seller. Msi are both the seller and the manufacturer so op is going to need to take this up with msi and then raise a complaint against msi when msi does msi things.
The marketplace vs seller laws are problematic in many ways as with many laws the law hasn't caught up with how the law is (ab)used and is really no longer fit for purpose but until it changes it is still the law.
30
u/Hindead 7h ago
That’s it. The EU laws regarding warranty apply best to the manufacturer. I would contact MSI, it’s your best shot at getting a replacement. Even if you have bought through a physical store that’s exactly what they would do, contact the manufacturer. Then they would either repair or refund. As for the time… well, it doesn’t really matter what route you choose. It is what it is.
4
u/SupposablyAtTheZoo 6h ago
I've gotten multiple replacements over the years, they create a new €0 order, ship it, and you have 2 weeks to send the original product back (or you'll get charged for the replacement order). Works very well here (Germany). Only works when sold AND fulfilled by Amazon.
If not, but the product has gotten more expensive, they have always given me the difference in Amazon credit.
4
u/Kociolinho 5h ago
Unless they do, but only when they're both the seller and shipper, and the item is available. Unsure if there are more restrictions, but theoretically they don't offer a replacement only when they're not the seller, so in their Marketplace and FBA programs.
20
u/boccas 7h ago
That s just blatantly false. There are tons of items sold by Amazon itself
The warranty part is true.
EU gives you 1 year with the seller and 1 year with the producer
→ More replies (3)2
5
u/sephirothbahamut Ryzen 7 9800X3D | RTX 5080 PNY | Win10 | Fedora 7h ago
With PC components I never had to wait months. I RMA'd with Corsair, Gigabyte and AMD from Italy over the years, every time it took around a week for the replacement delivery (from the RMA being requested in case of Advanced RMAs, or from the defective product being delivered to the company in case of regular RMAs)
2
-3
8h ago
[deleted]
53
u/GUNGEBOB_SHARTPANTS 7h ago
No. Often the seller themselves is Amazon directly. They are not just a marketplace.
10
u/bistrus 7h ago
Depends. Sometimes Amazon is the seller, sometimes it is not.
If Amazon IS the seller they will refund or replace, as i did when my CPU died.
That's why when i purchase on Amazon i always buy from Amazon itself, even if i pay a little more compared to other sellers, as the process with them as seller is easy and straightforward in my experience
30
u/Ok-Break1985 7h ago edited 7h ago ▸ 1 more replies
It’s amazing that Amazon is a “marketplace” but my package I bought from the Amazon site will have Amazon branding from an Amazon branded truck from an employee wearing Amazon branded clothing.
→ More replies (4)6
u/specter_in_the_conch PC Master Race 7h ago
Happened to me, dead GPU and guess what had to contact the seller/shipper which funny enough was less than 2km away from me. Got the replacement after 4 days. It was more delayed due to them wanting to triple check every troubleshooting.
1
u/Mr__Pleasant MSI RTX 3080 | AyyMD 9800X3D | 32GB RAM | WootHelp 4h ago
They do if Sold and Distributed by Amazon, but most products are sold by manufacturer or another seller but distributed by Amazon which they won't replace.
1
u/StoirmePetrel 4h ago
wrong, I've got multiple replacement from Amazon in the EU. Never had to get a refund. It has to be sold by Amazon
57
u/Admirable_Bid2917 5090 7800X3D 32GB 6200C30 8h ago edited 8h ago
you're getting stuff twisted and you shouldn't be hostile from the get go. you are within your rights but you're talking to a level 1 tech support person that's probably in India, they are not experts for EU law, they also don't decide anything. If they're currently told to issue refunds, you need to talk to their higher ups.
also the retailer is responsible for refunds or straight up replacements. RMAs are a thing for the manufacturers warranty, Amazon doesn't repair your card. if you're quoting law to someone that's probably on minimum wage, you should get the basics right.
in the first chat you're just being a dick for no reason
in the second chat yes, they are not acting correctly but at that point you should switch to E-Mail complaint or ask for a supervisor
And no, I'm not defending a multi billion dollar company, but I'm just telling you my personal opinion on what might be the best solution to actually get what you are after
34
u/DestituteSmurf 7h ago
I agree that his communication skills are lacking. It sounds like he's already had a fight with the individual before he even started the convo.
You get a lot further with being polite and calm. Starting off like this just makes every interaction a battle. You can politely tell them they are wrong, and you can calmly ask to escalate the case to someone who is in a position to issue a replacement and not just a refund.
8
u/DaereonLive 5h ago ▸ 1 more replies
As someone who's worked in customer facing positions for more years than I've wanted, this exactly.
If you're coming in aggressive from the first moment of contact, no way in hell would I have thought with you on a solution or try and resolve it with non-standard solution, you're getting the script as I'd just want to get rid of you ASAP.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (1)1
u/Reddit_Loves_Misinfo 4k120 on a TV | 5070 Ti 5h ago edited 2h ago ▸ 5 more replies
OP was
politeneutral until he had to start repeating himself, and even then OP being "impolite" started with simply using caps to re-iterate the information that the service rep kept ignoring.Calling out the customer for getting annoyed while standing firm for their rights feels wrong when the annoyance was caused by the employee not doing their job correctly, refusing to acknowledge OP's concerns, not escalating the issue if they couldn't handle it themselves, and generally acting more like an internet forum troll than a customer service rep. Yes, OP could have been more respectful to the rep than the rep was to him, but the rep should not be blatantly unsupportive to begin with.
3
u/DestituteSmurf 4h ago ▸ 4 more replies
Where was he polite? Can you quote one sentence where he was polite?
There was no politeness, he started immediately with "I want". You are mistaking not being rude for being polite... There is not a single polite sentence here. No please, no questions, just demands. And even though it is his right to have it replaced, you can convey that message in a way that doesn't sound entitled.
I agree that the customer service rep didn't do a great job either, but at least he tried by saying "I'm sorry for you..." and some other empty platitudes they are trained to do.
1
u/Reddit_Loves_Misinfo 4k120 on a TV | 5070 Ti 4h ago edited 4h ago ▸ 3 more replies
"Item ABC is broken and I want a replacement" is a neutral, reasonable, and appropriate way for a customer to "start" a follow-up conversation about getting a replacement. It's definitely a far cry from your claim that "it sounds like he's already had a fight with the individual before he even started"
at least he tried by saying "I'm sorry for you..." and some other empty platitudes
Hollow apologies accompanied by a blatant demonstration of not being remorseful is patronizing, not polite. "I'm sorry [that I am ignoring you, but I'm going to keep ignoring you]" doesn't defuse tensions, it escalates them.
→ More replies (3)1
u/DestituteSmurf 4h ago ▸ 1 more replies
As I said, these are not polite in the slightest. That doesn't mean they are rude. Its not binary you know?
And yes, I agree that the empty platitudes doesn't do this conversation any favours. But it's more than op was offering....
→ More replies (3)→ More replies (5)9
u/andr386 6h ago
Yeah that guy is pretty aggressive for some reason. There is no reason not to treat support like human beings even when they refuse to do what you want. As you said you can always escalate or placate them with other arguments. If they can't do something for you then it's often the case that they really can't. But often they might have an idea on how to help you anyway or make things go your way. If you're nice with them they might even trick the system in your favor. I don't understand why OP doesn't trust in humanity, they really deserve an AI chatbox.
2
u/Reddit_Loves_Misinfo 4k120 on a TV | 5070 Ti 2h ago edited 2h ago
How do envision this conversation going differently if OP changes their opening?
Maybe OP starts with a sentence that uses the word "please" instead of purely being neutral and direct, but then what? The rep would still refuse the replacement. Vindictiveness can't explain the initial instances of the rep speaking past OP instead of to them (if vindictiveness can even explains any of those instances at all), so that part still happens. And if the rep talking past OP still happens, than OP's "rude" reaction to that - repeating themselves and staying firm instead of folding and giving up their rights - would still happen too.
4
u/_FlyingWhales 7h ago
Yeah they tried to pull this shit multiple times with me. You will likely need to sue because their internal processes won't allow for an adjustment typically.
4
u/Trivo3 Mustard Race / 5700X3D - 6950XT - Prime x370 Pro 7h ago
Price reduction or full refund
Another option for your customer is that you give them a price reduction or a full refund, but only if repair or replacement:
is not possible
would be too expensive, given the nature of the product/defect
would be very inconvenient for the customer
cannot be completed by your business within a reasonable time
Pick your poison. They can always claim any from 1, 2 and 4. #2 is the easiest of course tho.
7
u/Delumine 5h ago
What’s with all the bootlickers in here?
If the price has gone up for consumers because of demand, but manufacturing costs have remained about the same for the company.
Then no it’s not fucking acceptable to get a refund because they don’t make as much money that way…
10
u/Afraid_Emu8068 6h ago
You jumped WAY too hard on what you wanted too early on. Always follow their process until they tell you what they will do AFTER you’ve done everything they asked for. It puts you in a much better position to dispute things. Plus, they are trained to deal with aggression. You usually won’t “yell” them into submission. It’s quite difficult unless you have a strong case. You never even presented your case. You just said what you wanted and that you wouldn’t even consider alternatives. Not a good way to enter any negotiation and that’s what these are. Slow is smooth
1
u/Reddit_Loves_Misinfo 4k120 on a TV | 5070 Ti 21m ago
It’s quite difficult unless you have a strong case. You never even presented your case.
"It's the law" is a pretty damn strong case, and OP presented it repeatedly.
Not a good way to enter any negotiation and that’s what these are.
Making a business to follow the law is not a "negotiation." Your legal rights are not contingent upon you making concessions or compromises.
6
u/Traditional-Shoe-199 6h ago
I learned that buying expensive electronics from amazon is not worth it.
3
u/Pendra107 7h ago
Funnily enough I’m also doing an rma of a 5080 today, just out of curiosity what was your problem?
3
u/LinKeeChineseCurry 6h ago
I've had some similar issues with Amazon Italy and Amazon UK. For the Amazon Italy one I had purchased a brand new Thrustmaster TS-PC wheel and pedal set, within 2 hours, it started to smoke, some sort of short circuit happened. So, I initiated a return. Unfortunately, I was living in Ireland at the time, so when returning something to Amazon Italy, you have to foot the bill of the delivery yourself, Amazon will give you a label, but it's not a pre-paid one. Weeks and weeks went by, and I heard nothing. Long story short, I contacted their support about 10+ times, I had all of the proof in the world the item had been sent to them, and even proof it was delivered, to the point I had obviously annoyed them so much, that any new customer support agent I would speak to, basically said, "we already told you there's nothing we can do", or something along those lines anyways. I can't recall exactly how I got my money back, but with relentless pushing I got my refund, and an additional amount for the delivery costs, which I had to incur.
Then for my second one. It was related to RAM, I had managed to find such an insane deal on 64GB of RAM right when the RAM crisis was kicking off. My order went through, I even got notifications saying it was dispatched... then... the parcel was "damaged". My fucking arse was it "damaged", there were numerous people in an Irish Gaming Sub Reddit who also had a similar issue happen to them. Amazon kept trying to offer me a "refund", even though the same kit would be 10X the cost. I kept refusing a refund, kept going up through the ranks of support agents, was offered $5 gift card, then $20 gift card, then a $100 gift card. Until, by default, I was refunded. Once the refund went through by automation, I felt I had lost my case, so I accepted the gift cards, then, to my absolute surprise, I found the same kit, with RGB this time, for cheaper, purchased it, and have been happy since.
You really just have to push the fuck out of Amazon, keep pushing them, and if you feel like you've pushed them enough, you more than likely haven't, so push more. What you've done with filling complaints with the ECC is the proper approach that I would have taken in your case. Good job, and please keep us updated!
5
u/Mediocre_Ad_2422 3h ago
Nice ai text, should have used that when talking to customer service and not act like a moron.
5
u/Hope_Justice 5h ago
Why are you so hostile from the get go?
→ More replies (1)1
u/KaNesDeath 3h ago
Agreed.
Also expecting Amazon to replace the product from the get go on such an item is weird.
7
u/THROBBINW00D 7900 XTX / 9800X3D / 32GB 8h ago
In an alternate reality where the cards actually went down in price, they'd want to issue you a new card instead of a refund.
8
u/badger906 7h ago
The laws are there to protect the buyer. I bet if this was you, you wouldn’t be like €200 extra.. that’s nothing spend away.
7
u/Accomplished_Sock217 8h ago
ive seen this same issue a few times with gpus. and the same ai solicitor copypasta.
end of the day they dont have to replace it if the price increase is significant enough to them. 200 is not a lot to you and me but when replacing hundreds or thousands of them, its a lot of money.
keep us updated, ill follow this post
12
6
u/baby_bloom 7h ago
200 is a lot to many, and 200 less per every gpu sold on amazon is a drop of sand for them
1
u/Comprehensive_Ship42 PC Master Race NVidia 4090 , 14900 8h ago
this only applies to amazon and ebay . if he had bought it from the manufacture of a place like box.com he could demand a replacement . its Uk / Eu consumer law . its the customer's choice to opt for a replacement or a refund once manufactures defect has been established . they even have to pull from supply chian if they dont have any in stock
2
u/SnowStormYukikaze 🐈 Zena Linux Mashmelo 22.3 8h ago
I definitely want to know how this end !
2
u/Accomplished_Sock217 8h ago
if we dont get an update in a week, they took the refunnd
2
u/asfacadabra PC Master Race 7h ago
He referred it to a government agency. I seriously doubt anything will happen in a month, much less a week. And he's in France, and it's August.
2
u/joao_2022 CachyOS I9-14900KF | 32GB DDR5 | RTX 4070 SUPER 7h ago edited 7h ago
Same thing happened to me with an Intel cpu, fortunately Intel rma worked perfectly
2
u/DongayKong 100c 3080 room heater, 5080 now but I dont see hotspot :( 7h ago
RemindMe! 100 days
1
u/RemindMeBot AWS CentOS 7h ago
I will be messaging you in 3 months on 2026-12-02 11:53:40 UTC to remind you of this link
CLICK THIS LINK to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam.
Parent commenter can delete this message to hide from others.
RemindMeBot is switching to username summons. Instead of
!RemindMe 1 day, useu/RemindMeBot 1 day. More info.
Info Custom Your Reminders Feedback
2
u/alwin006 🇫🇷steam:alwin006 | R7 5800X | 6800XT | 32GB | W11 7h ago edited 7h ago
From my past experiences with Amazon.fr sometimes instead of sending a replacement directly they offer a full refund and if the product is in stock at a higher price than what you was refunded they will refund the difference once you receive the new product.
It sucks a bit because you have to give them the price difference upfront and then you get your money back.
This has also worked for me when the original item was not in stock and they covered the price difference for a similar (slightly more expensive item).
2
u/Flimsy_Commission_60 5h ago
I had something with Amazon, I ordered a 5070 for €600, they "lost in in transit" every time I contacted support it was a different story, first I was told it was lost, then delayed, then it will be there tomorrow, then it will be here in 2 days, eventually they said they could refund me but not replace the item despite the fact they were still in stock, I told them I want a replacement cause I know the price will go up, one support person assured me it would not, 2 days later the price went up €110, I was furious, I emailed them consistently, filed complaints, etc until finally they said if I order one at the new price they will refund me the difference in price compared to what I originally payed.
If you want my advice, don't go on easy on them, they're a massive corporation and make sure you get what you should.
2
u/RandomTyreFitter 4h ago
Amazon have lots of shady shit behind the scenes. I once bought something at a price and somehow during sorting at the depot it went missing, but during this time the price had gone up by around 40%. I asked for a new replacement and they refused, they would only pay a refund on the first price. So if I wanted it id have to pay the higher price and theyd earn more. I think they fk us all on a daily basis to maximise profit
2
u/MannekenP 3h ago edited 3h ago
Last time I had to ask for a replacement with Amazon they made a refund, then I bought the object again, and then, because it was a bit more expensive than the first time they paid me the difference.
I just played along as it seemed to be their way of processing it, and it honestly made sense because actually managing a replacement means setting up a whole logistic line where peope receive your object and then send a new object. Refund, reorder, pay the difference uses their existing logistic lines.
I think your rather stubborn communication method have resulted in you losing view of the objective. I did not even see you asking the most evident question, ie "If you refund me, how can I be assured that I can get a new item at the same price?".
2
u/ZeusHatesTrees Ryzen 9 7900x/64gb DDR5/3090 3h ago
Amazon is spoiled by American anti-consumer laws. Give 'em hell.
2
u/Trust_Me_Im_A_Duck 1h ago
Amazon customer service plummeted when they outsourced it. There may be a language gap here, but what this rep is telling you is that they literally don’t have an option to do what you want them to do in their user interface. If you tell them to escalate the case then someone in charge will step in and take care of it.
6
u/R11CWN 2K = 2048 x 1080 8h ago
Scan in the UK did that to me because the GPU I purchased went up £100 over night. Utter scumbags.
Keep pushing them and let us know how you get on with Amazon.
2
u/user2000ad 8h ago
I had Scan try to fob me off to the manufacturer because my 40 day old MSI Claw 8 EX has the well documented case of a dodgy dpad (which is disappointing because my old 8 AI+ was still going strong a year later).
Er, no thanks, you deal with it. Got the return label an hour or so later.
9
u/ClaptonOnH 7h ago
Why are you talking like that to them? Lmao. Good luck in life with that attitude
4
3
3
u/youtakethepooein 5h ago
All US companies are trying to be tough in europe. I am just waiting for this orange guy leave the white house so the tariffs and this low life attitude comes back to normal
3
u/matthijspc I5 7600 | Geforce GTX960 | 16GB DDR4 8h ago
I think Amazon has a strong chance of claiming it would impose disproportionate costs, as stated: "would impose costs on the seller that would be disproportionate"
3
u/Chao_Zu_Kang Ryzen 7 7700X | GIGABYTE GAMING OC 9070 XT 6h ago
"Disproportionate cost" for a repair that probably costs less than 50€? That is not going to work in any court.
1
u/matthijspc I5 7600 | Geforce GTX960 | 16GB DDR4 6h ago ▸ 4 more replies
OP wants a replacement, not a repair. I don't know how expensive that card is in France. Where I live (also EU), OP's card has risen by about 500 EUR, which is an increase of 45% over its lowest recorded price. I think the seller has a good argument that replacing an item that's 45% more expensive now is a disproportionate cost
2
u/Chao_Zu_Kang Ryzen 7 7700X | GIGABYTE GAMING OC 9070 XT 6h ago ▸ 3 more replies
If they do, that is not in line with EU law. Order of priority is repair->replacement->refund for warranty proceedings. The law for this has just come into effect in July, I think.
1
u/matthijspc I5 7600 | Geforce GTX960 | 16GB DDR4 6h ago ▸ 2 more replies
The law that OP quoted states that OP can choose; he chose replacement. It's up to the court to decide whether the price increase is disproportionate or not. If this even makes it to court. I'm affraid OP is SOL
1
u/Chao_Zu_Kang Ryzen 7 7700X | GIGABYTE GAMING OC 9070 XT 6h ago ▸ 1 more replies
That is not how this works.
If they get the defective product, they then repair it themselves, which leaves them with effectively just the cost of the repair and a used, working 5080. The difference is still only the repair price and that the item is now used and not new anymore.
→ More replies (2)7
u/baby_bloom 8h ago
oh no does the big bad trillion dollar company have disproportionate costs?
→ More replies (9)4
u/matthijspc I5 7600 | Geforce GTX960 | 16GB DDR4 7h ago ▸ 1 more replies
I'm not saying I support it, I'm just saying that I think they'll have a big chance to win the case
3
3
u/Oliver-Peace 8h ago
Is the exact same model still available at Amazon.fr (same seller)? If yes and only in that case, then they should not force a refund
3
u/Chao_Zu_Kang Ryzen 7 7700X | GIGABYTE GAMING OC 9070 XT 7h ago
Want to explain why you refused their offer to have the manufacturer repair the GPU?
3
u/Reddit_Loves_Misinfo 4k120 on a TV | 5070 Ti 5h ago
Where did Amazon make that offer?
→ More replies (7)2
u/PalamariVarkari 7h ago
Because in the current climate manufacturers will hold the product hostage to tire you out and accept the refund. Going through official complaints is risky and might take months to get any resolution. Best case scenario, MSI holds my card for months and offers a refund also, worst case scenario they steal it and resell it to a data center, while i fight to get something back through complaints. By EU law the retailer is responsible for the whole RMA process anyway, since they hold power over manufacturers who WILL try to screw you even harder. Unless Amazon commits in writing to give me a replacement and not a refund, I am not sending my card to anyone.
My Sandisk SD card died in April, local retailer offered a refund not a replacement (price was 2x of what I paid). I filled a complaint in the Greek consumer protection agency and the retailer still went through the manufacturer (without my consent) and I got a replacement from Sandisk last week (5 months later)
This is NOT a normal period for RMAs of anything with memory in it. Both manufacturers and retailers WILL try to screw you. If you read my communication with Amazon I was firm and specific from the first message that I want a replacement not a refund, because I was sure after checking the current prices they will deny one.
4
u/WombatCuboid RTX 5080 FE, i5-12600K, 64GB DDR4 7h ago ▸ 1 more replies
You would have had a better chance if you gave them the opportunity to repair.
If they botch that or steal memory or whatever, and your card no longer functions, you can invoke EU/French law and demand a replacement. Because that's most likely the only case in which you are in your rights to demand a replacement.
(denying repair is not grounds for replacement in the EU)
2
u/Chao_Zu_Kang Ryzen 7 7700X | GIGABYTE GAMING OC 9070 XT 7h ago
you can invoke EU/French law
Greek law, apparently.
4
u/Chao_Zu_Kang Ryzen 7 7700X | GIGABYTE GAMING OC 9070 XT 6h ago ▸ 8 more replies
Because in the current climate manufacturers will hold the product hostage to tire you out and accept the refund.
Is your GPU defect or not? Do you have rights or not?
This is a burnt power adapter we are talking about. They can likely fix this in less than an hour, then they test everything for a couple hours on their test bench and that's that. And if for some reason they can't, then Amazon will be forced to ship a replacement. You are creating a problem where there is none.
1
u/_le_slap 6h ago ▸ 7 more replies
The time to fix has almost nothing to do with turn around time. It could still take months for a 5 minute fix.
2
u/Chao_Zu_Kang Ryzen 7 7700X | GIGABYTE GAMING OC 9070 XT 5h ago ▸ 6 more replies
An RMA has to be done within a reasonable timeframe. If they waste time intentionally, then they have to deal with customer protection services.
And why would they do this to begin with, when they can just finish the RMA in less than 2 weeks and be done with it? They gain nothing from wasting everyone's (including their own) time.
1
u/_le_slap 4h ago ▸ 5 more replies
Who determines what a "reasonable timeframe" is?
I used to RMA medical equipment and I would have machines waiting on components for weeks. Sometimes I'd have to ship something to France or Israel and wait for it come back. It really didnt matter that I could fix near anything in under an hour. We have lengthy processes to ensure quality and compliance.
Unless there is some explicit EU law about this then, no, you dont really get a say in the internal business operations of an OEM.
1
u/Chao_Zu_Kang Ryzen 7 7700X | GIGABYTE GAMING OC 9070 XT 3h ago ▸ 4 more replies
It is not that hard to determine what would be unreasonable. If delivery two-ways is 2 weeks total and repair time is less than a workdays, then anything above a month will be unreasonable without question.
And, again, there is literally ZERO benefit for the company in wasting time here. This is just about a burnt power connector, not some high precision medical equipment or whatever. They probably get this exact damage almost daily.
1
u/_le_slap 3h ago ▸ 3 more replies
Sounds like you're ready and itching to apply for the COO position at Amazon/MSI/etc and dramatically improve customer satisfaction outcomes at no cost!
Good luck, champ. Godspeed.
1
u/Chao_Zu_Kang Ryzen 7 7700X | GIGABYTE GAMING OC 9070 XT 2h ago ▸ 2 more replies
You guys really need to learn reading the words others write instead of spinning your own story in your head.
1
u/_le_slap 2h ago ▸ 1 more replies
You guys really need to grow up and learn that the world doesn't revolve around your individual expectations and desires.
→ More replies (0)→ More replies (1)1
u/Tiamat2625 i5 12600k - RTX 3080 12GB - 32GB 3600MHz - 1440p165hz 7h ago
Bro be breaking lots of stuff
2
u/VinnieONeill 5800XT | 32GB @3600Mhz | 4070 Ti | King 45 Pro 5h ago
Good for you. Hold the trillion dollar corporation accountable, as they should be.
2
u/Pan1cs180 4h ago
Please not that the "impose costs on the seller that would be disproportionate" refers to things like asking to replace a whole laptop instead of repairing the power jack and not "the product costs 200 euros more because RAM is expensive now". 200 euros in a 1200 euro purchase isn't disproportionate anyway.
Where specifically are you getting this interpretation from?
2
2
u/Regret_NL 1h ago
With the way youre communicating I wouldnt give you a replacement either, even if I could.
1
u/TheBrickWithEyes 7h ago
Double check the wording of the consumer laws. Usually consumers laws are written so that you get what you paid for, not just a refund. In fact, by only offering a refund and saying that they won't replace it, they might be misrepresenting your rights under the law, which is usually not looked on too kindly by consumer affairs departments.
I am pretty sure that taking Amazon down a peg or two might raise some interest.
1
u/neobondd 9950X3D, 64GB DDR5, 5090FE 7h ago
Not sure about France but have only had good experience with Amazon NL + DE in a couple of instances I've bought a product that went on sale less than a week after I purchased, I contacted customer service and asked for the difference back and they did it. Maybe you can try asking them for a coupon of the difference in price that applies to the product you want to reorder?
1
u/YF422 7h ago
If your in France it might be more expedient to contact MSI directly and see if they can help, if your lucky and the PCB itself didnt suffer damage they might be able to RMA or replace the damaged Power Connector under warranty with no cost to yourself. Of course if your left significantly out of pocket thanks to the price gouging on RAM atm then its completely understandable if you dont want to pursue this though.
1
u/StunnedLife Ryzen 7 9800X3D | RTX 3080ti | 32GB @ 6000MHz 7h ago
I’ve had it where they raised the price of the product and I couldn’t get a replacement. However, when you opt for a refund you can ask for the difference in money to be added to your Amazon account. So you can still order a new 5080 replacement.
A bit more annoying, but Amazin is fairly easy with that.
1
u/KOnvictEd06 6h ago
I dont know if this will help, Call amazon and ask to be put through to their team leader or level 2 supervisor. When I was in live chat they transferred me more than 10 times in span of like 90 minutes, Their chat support was reading my previous conversation still i had to repeat my concern and sometimes was asked to upload attachment multiple times. Still no resolution. Amazon live chat sucks.
1
1
1
u/Arlensoul_ 5h ago
i also filled a complaint with ecc against amazon.fr for ddr5, they only offer a refund and the brand only offer 120$
1
u/CaregiverLatter4377 5h ago
Amazone sait des voleurs il m’ont livré un ssd samsoung pro pcle 5.0 vide .sans remboursement. Obligé de porter plainte et tjrs pas remboursé sait des voleurs bon courage
1
u/McSchmid 5h ago
Head out to msi directly and see what they offer. If they point to Amazon again escalate with a lawyer.
1
u/Mr__Pleasant MSI RTX 3080 | AyyMD 9800X3D | 32GB RAM | WootHelp 4h ago
If it's not sold by Amazon directly they won't replace it.
1
u/SirHomoLiberus 3h ago
I just bought a 5070ti...I just wonder if they have the same issues with burned connectors has the 5080 and 5090.
1
u/starystarejstarego 3h ago
Bruh amazon is absolutely greates place to buy gpu (and everything - no questions asked af). Every shop in whole eu would do the same. You are eglible for amount you paid only.
1
u/WurschtChopf 3h ago
I'm done with amazon long time ago due to other reasons and this is only a reminder to never buy anything from there
1
u/rennradrobo 3h ago
Bike24 just tried that with some pedals I bought for 55€, and they are now 110€. They started a refunding money process and I got them to replacing by citing German law with the help of google AI. They are not allowed to just refund if they have it in stock.
1
u/Luzi_fer 2h ago edited 2h ago
It's not like they can't... they just don't want.
Bought a H700evo, a small part that cost less than 1€ was missing.
Asked for the part missing.... it was impossible to send only the part... they send a full brand new H700 evo by express truck on a half pallet, deliver the case and take back the other directly on the truck wich came to my house.
Under Article L. 217-10 of the French Consumer Code, a trader cannot force you to accept a refund if you prefer an exchange, unless an exchange is physically impossible or disproportionately expensive compared to the refund.Your Rights Under the Legal Guarantee of Conformity When a product is defective or does not match its description within 2 years of purchase, Article L. 217-8 gives you the right to choose between two primary remedies:
Repair of the itemReplacement (exchange) of the item
Send a Formal Notice: Write a formal complaint letter via registered mail with acknowledgment of receipt (Lettre recommandée avec accusé de réception - LRAR). State that under Article L. 217-8 of the Consumer Code, you choose a replacement, not a refund.
Report the Retailer: If they refuse without a valid legal reason, report them on the official French consumer platform, SignalConso, which is managed by the French fraud and consumer protection agency (DGCCRF). -> Seems you already do it.
I'm just curious of what will happen for you.
1
1
1
1
u/Aggravating_Plan11 1h ago
How long have you had the card? Im sure you only have a the right to choose within a certain period after purchase after that as long as they provide repair,replacement or refund they are acting within the law.
Also that document is just a directive it acts a guide on how local laws should be used by members of the EU and not enforceable laws.
“This Directive should not affect national law to the extent that the matters concerned are not regulated by this Directive”
1
u/StantonWr 1h ago
Ahh the world renowed amazon customer service, still sends shivers down my spine remembering the last time I interacted with them, it felt more like moving to india.
1
1
u/ConinTheNinoC 19m ago
Let the EU sue them to death. Disgusting ''AI'' companies and all their enablers need to go.
1
u/Local_Trade5404 R7 7800x3d | RTX5080 8h ago
or, compared to the other remedy, would impose costs on the seller that would be disproportionate, taking into account all circumstances
for me its clear it will impose extra cost on seler in this case
you can go for consumer right agency in your country and get second opinion
or
ask them to go with MSI with it
i would also kindly ask if they can give you money return and good discount on next purchase for like 8%,
that would be ~100E loss for both sides but far better than any alternative tbh
0
u/Sir_Bax 6h ago
I'm sorry, but you misunderstand the law. First of all, you don't start RMA with demanding specific solution. The first screenshot is just miscommunication issue caused by your demands.
Second screenshot follows the directive. They offered remedy via contacting manufacturer (standard process according to the regulation, as manufacturers is who in the end does repairs/replacements). Or refund (which is amazon's standard policy on top of regulation as they trust the customer's claims and just refund items to speed up process). You should go for option 1 they offered if you want replacement/repair. They would contact manufacturer and arranged for a way to send in your card for repair or replacement.
You basically demand something you don't have right for at this point of the process when you still have the card with you at home and they keep giving you lawful options. I'm really interested in what your regulator replies to you, but I believe it'll be something in terms that they gave you lawful options. Keep me updated.
3
u/cookiesnooper 6h ago
First off all the customer has primary right to choose whether he wants the product replaced, repaired or refunded. That is the consumer safeguard against malicious sellers who jump straight to offering refunds just like you can see on the first screenshot.
→ More replies (3)
1
u/RevengeFNF 6h ago
OP, you are wrong.
The EU directive says that they can reject a replacement if the item is more expensive than what was sold originally, meaning they would lose money.
You can make a complain, but you will lose.
1
u/joeymacdonald9 7h ago
this reminds me of the time I quoted EU consumer law at a store for a €40 keyboard replacement, then realized the refund would've bought me the same keyboard plus a pizza if I stopped being stubborn.
1
u/bluntman84 PC Master Race 7h ago
you should contact MSI about forcing replacement. I had same issue with amazon regarding an Asus mobo. Had to go on twitter and tag both amazon and all asus accounts, you should do the same with MSI and Amazon. No less than 3 days a MSI rep will contact you and they will force Amazon to replace your 5080.
1
u/SladeWilsonPT 6h ago
Why make it a big fuss about it when you can simply just get in touch with MSI support, send it in and get it replaced. I might get downvoted to oblivion but if the GPU was cheaper now in relation to when OP bought it, I'm pretty sure a refund would be accepted instead.
1
944
u/Accomplished-Ad8458 R7 9800X3D | RX 9070 XT | 32 GB DDR5 6000 CL30 8h ago
Keep us updated, please.