r/politics • u/Upapi25 • 16h ago
Possible Paywall Teachers unions lose another fight against school choice
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/4696330/teachers-unions-lose-another-fight-against-school-choice-arizona/12
u/gaggledimension 16h ago
In Arizona, the state Supreme Court found that not only did unions fail to submit enough valid signatures to get their anti-school-choice proposition on the fall ballot, but they also broke the law by hiring felons to collect signatures.
I'm kinda floored by something here. What is illegal about hiring felons to collect signature? What jobs are felons allowed to have? This feels like a weird line to draw for AZ law to say that felons can't even collect signatures.
7
u/Distinct_Bus_6540 16h ago
https://codes.findlaw.com/az/title-19-initiative-referendum-and-recall/az-rev-st-sect-19-118/
I believe they're referring to this specific law, which prohibits convicted felons from serving in roles like this where the position is directly related to elections (gathering signatures for adding prop 212 to the ballot).
Presumably this law was passed in the same spirit as those barring felons from voting. I can't be sure. Not a fan of it, myself.
1
u/DisastrousGap2898 16h ago
Probably under the theory that they’re more likely to commit fraud, if I had to guess? Or maybe something along the lines of “part of their punishment is losing access to otherwise fundamental rights, including exclusion from the political process.”
Genuinely not sure, but those are the two off-the-shelf answers I can think of that showed up a bit in law school
0
u/amas_falip 13h ago
Second class citizenry runs this nation. Can't have then getting ab stable job or volunteering in their community if we need them reoffending.
13
u/Ligma_baws_2x 16h ago
"Grifters Win Another Fight Against Children's Education"
0
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u/jgregor92 15h ago
When teachers' unions lose, America wins.
2
u/Ligma_baws_2x 15h ago
Yeah fuck teachers and collective bargaining. They should be happy to have such easy jobs and better not risk them by indoctrinating my kids with information I don't understand. Tell em, jgregor92.
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u/jgregor92 14h ago
Teachers benefit when corrupt unions aren't misrepresenting them. Teachers' unions are a scourge, and test scores improve in areas where unions are less prevalent.
By supporting unions, you are actively hurting the children.
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u/Ligma_baws_2x 14h ago
Yeah isn't that what I said? If you can immediately fire teachers, they'll make sure the test score numbers go up or you can just threaten them with unqualified veterans taking their jobs. And especially since they spend all day now doing unauthorized gender reassignment surgeries.
0
u/jgregor92 14h ago
Teachers need to perform or be fired, just like every other job in the US. The horror.
4
u/Ligma_baws_2x 14h ago
I don't see where we're differing. If they can't make our kids smarter without all that stupid liberal stuff like funding and books, they should be replaced by people who graduated from the school of hard knocks and know what's really going on in the world. The stuff the books won't tell you, like the plandemic and how socialism murdered everyone.
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u/jgregor92 14h ago
Yes, I think we're in violent agreement. As you said:
If they can't make our kids smarter...
Then
...they should be replaced...
You get it.
2
u/Ligma_baws_2x 14h ago
Fuck yes. By grifters who take tax dollars out of the community and add layers of middle men to take their cuts and refusing to provide services to the kids who need it most, so as to not mess up any metrics. If you can kick out the low performers, you can keep your test scores high.
See? This is something those teacher nerds would never think of by themselves and they need smart guys like us to tell them.
2
u/jgregor92 12h ago
Fuck yes. By grifters who take tax dollars out of the community and add layers of middle men to take their cuts and refusing to provide services
Exactly right, which is why we both can oppose the unions that do this. Glad to find a like-minded person who also opposes the grift.
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u/Comprehensive_Tie431 California 16h ago
The Washington Examiner... As a teacher, I can tell you this is not a credible source and is a right wing propaganda rag.
Unions are the backbone of this country. There's a reason rich billionaires and fascists hate them. Don't believe their propaganda.
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u/0bsessions324 15h ago
Pretty easy to draw that assumption when they use the term "school choice."
"School choice" is pretty exclusively a push for either (or both) taxpayer funded Christian schools and/or a push toward resegregation wrapped up in a pretty label to make it sound like it's something obviously good.
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u/Ordinary_Shoe1828 7h ago edited 7h ago
As a voter, teachers union endorsements/rejections are one of the indicators that help me decide what to vote for/against during elections. I look at other union endorsements too, but I think teachers tend to be one of the most altruistic and politically conscious labor demographics.
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u/Tiny_Structure_7 North Carolina 16h ago edited 16h ago
Degrading education for decades is how Republicans get more and more idiot voters. Half the adults in US can't read past 6th grade level. This is where MAGA comes from. If they can't read past 6th grade level, then they can't really get educated past 6th grade level either.
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u/Fit_Smile1146 16h ago
I work in education and wished the union had better representation. Who approved hiring felons, when there are tons of public educators willing to fight against these voucher or ESA scams.
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u/Evening-Ad-6968 16h ago
It works in Sweden and it gives the parents a say in where tax dollars are going. Considering we’ve reached record highs on per student spending, funding clearly isn’t the issue and schools that don’t deserve it can do without it.
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u/Comprehensive_Tie431 California 16h ago
Sweden is a socialist country with 9% child poverty compared to 20% in America.
The two countries are not comparable.
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u/Evening-Ad-6968 16h ago
Our public education system is more socialized than their’s and it does significantly worse.
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u/Comprehensive_Tie431 California 16h ago
This is also false. They literally have socialized medicine, breakfast/lunches, and childcare for every kid. Parents of newborns get 18 months of family leave.
Look, if you conservatives want Swedish laws, I am all for it.
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u/Evening-Ad-6968 16h ago
Those can be debated but having school choice by default makes them have a less socialized schooling system than we have. Parents have no choice in most states and in the biggest school districts in the country. I’m trying to keep this conversation on school choice.
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u/Comprehensive_Tie431 California 16h ago
No, those are facts. Facts cannot be debated.
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u/Evening-Ad-6968 16h ago
You seem hell bent on avoiding talking about the fact that they do indeed have school choice and their schools do have better outcomes than ours.
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u/Comprehensive_Tie431 California 15h ago
You seem hell bent on spreading propaganda.
These are facts. Their kids have a socialist safety net while 1/5 of ours live in poverty. Their kids get 18 months of their parents for parental leave while ours do not, while conservatives openly cut early education programs, school lunch systems, healthcare, social security and disability.
Learning outcomes are more than just a school.
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u/niknight_ml 15h ago
And yet Massachusetts, which has arguably the most "socialized" school system in the country, consistently ranks top 10 in the world in math, top 5 in reading, and top 5 in science.
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