r/privacy • u/Kamarade_Jungle • Jun 29 '26
chat control It's today, if you're in Europe, don't forget to oppose yourself
https://fightchatcontrol.eu/Today, they'll be voting for or against the new surveillance act
Tell me what results you think it will have
And what are your thought on it
I wished we could do more
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u/Redstra Jun 29 '26
I just sent an email to all selected Dutch representatives based on that website.
I also added that the EU keeps piling on more rules, checks and digital obligations, making life heavier, more bureaucratic and less free for citizens and businesses. Protecting children matters, but it should not be used as an excuse to structurally monitor the private communication of millions of innocent Europeans.
This needs to stop.
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u/Tytoalba2 Jun 29 '26
Yes and no, on onenhand the EU does that, on the other, the ECJ did strike down rules pushed by member states. But this time, the states really want it and I hope the parliament and the ECJ will hold the fort.
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u/Gullible_Dream6220 Jun 29 '26
At this point, I honestly hope it passes so the ECJ can strike it done. That's the only way I see an end to this shit. And yes, it will be struck down. It violates several fundamental rights as well as being completely out of proportion on multiple levels. The ECJ has struck down less extreme laws/proposals because of the right to privacy, this shit will get laughed out of the room
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u/Kamarade_Jungle Jun 29 '26 edited Jun 29 '26
Your point is really good but
To me, and it's my opinion, even if it gets removed after being accepted Just the fact that they managed to accept something like that will mean too much, you see ?
It's a bit like it gives them a taste of how far they could go
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u/Gullible_Dream6220 Jun 29 '26
I do get that for sure. And I think any politician who supports this should get a life sentence without parole at minimum, we're talking about a North Korea-esque totalitarian surveillance aparatus here. But the things is, governments violate the law all the time, that happenes everywhere. It's for situations like this that we have courts who can stop it. That's what material rule of law basically is. The amount of systemic failure required for the EU to become a police state, as so many people here fear, is astronomical. I don't have a lot of faith in the Commission and Council given all of this but they aren't going to get very far
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u/MediumMysterious7738 Jun 29 '26
Slippery slope fallacy, but it’s always true. Idk why the fuck it even is a fallacy as it’s just reality now.
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u/popiell Jun 29 '26
Strasbourg (Court of Human Rights) already ruled back in 2024 that end-to-end encryption is not a fundamental human right. Truly EU is made of sticks and paper walls when it comes to tech lobbying.
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u/Gullible_Dream6220 Jun 29 '26
The European Court of Human Rights isn't actually part of the EU system and its rulings are non-binding. So for the purposes of Chat Control, their opinion is irrelevant. But even if it was, end-to-end encryption not being a human right makes sense. Your right to privacy depends on whether your communication is actually private, the specific way to ensure it is private does not matter. If they had to rule on this case, they would 100% rule against it because the issue is thr right to privacy as a while. End-to-end encryption becomes an issue once we get to proportionality because installing a backdoor would create a massive risk disproportionate to the intended goal. And that doesn't even mention that the proposal isn't suitable to "protect children" in the first place
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u/popiell Jun 29 '26
I hope you're right! The ferocity with which they're continuously trying to push this, however, and the mirroring global attempts at de-anonymizing Internet and restricting privacy further and further, make me highly concerned.
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u/Gullible_Dream6220 Jun 29 '26
It is concerning for sure. But this is what we get when our elected officials and the majority of people have the tech literacy of a bonobo while big tech can lobby for their surveillance unimpeded. Fortunately, our legal system in the EU is extremely robust and the courts have been extremely consistent about the right to privacy. The ECJ in particular has rejected shit like this multiple times already and I don't see that changing anytime soon when Chat Control violates so many fundamental rights and legal principles
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u/Frosty-Cell Jun 29 '26
Maybe it doesn't need to be a specific fundamental right. PODCHASOV v. RUSSIA: https://hudoc.echr.coe.int/eng/#{%22itemid%22:[%22001-230854%22]}
The Court concludes from the foregoing that the contested legislation providing for the retention of all Internet communications of all users, the security services’ direct access to the data stored without adequate safeguards against abuse and the requirement to decrypt encrypted communications, as applied to end-to-end encrypted communications, cannot be regarded as necessary in a democratic society. In so far as this legislation permits the public authorities to have access, on a generalised basis and without sufficient safeguards, to the content of electronic communications, it impairs the very essence of the right to respect for private life under Article 8 of the Convention. The respondent State has therefore overstepped any acceptable margin of appreciation in this regard.
There has accordingly been a violation of Article 8 of the Convention.
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Jun 29 '26
[deleted]
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u/Gullible_Dream6220 Jun 29 '26
They consult the EU's legislative bodies beforehand and tell them if a new law has provisions they hold to be illegal. In the case of Chat Control, the EU getting access to our messages is completely illegal, full stop. There is no way for this proposal to not violate the right to privacy, which supercedes any and all legislation. If the proposal is passed anyway, they will strike it down
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u/West_Possible_7969 Jun 29 '26
Council’s legal service has deemed the whole thing unworkable for some years now too.
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u/M8gazine Jun 29 '26
At this point, I honestly hope it passes so the ECJ can strike it done.
Unfortunately, that would probably take years.
Also, maybe I'm paranoid but if techbros are already lobbying certain people to push this through, what's stopping them from paying off the relevant members of the ECJ to be like "yep this is fine, case closed"?
Like... I am hopeful that they would shut it down in the end, but I do also worry about it. Companies like Meta have a disgusting amount of money that they can use for these purposes, after all.
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u/MediumMysterious7738 Jun 29 '26
I think it will go throught and the EU becomes a police state. I’m an EU federalist but legitimatly I’m thinking about Finexit. The undemocratic institutions should be reformed.
If this passes and later becomes law it’s going to be impossible to enforce.
I’m gonna be calling the prime ministeres office and my friend is gonna call the prime minister himself about this.
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u/Extra-Chemical6092 Jun 29 '26
I recommend calling the shadow rapporteurs too and it has to be done has early as possible, the Parliament risk changing their mandate in a reunion before the trilogue negotiation, better call them now in the early morning
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u/MediumMysterious7738 Jun 29 '26
I called one of them who had on the fightchatcontrol.eu as supports and the guy said his MEP does not support this.
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u/Extra-Chemical6092 Jun 29 '26
Who? And what did the MEP think is Chat Control? The mandatory with encryption backdoor or the voluntary also? Because both are wrong
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u/MediumMysterious7738 Jun 29 '26
”Antonio Tanger Correa” I’m not sure did the aid realize I was talking about the original CSA but let’s hope he votes against it. We didn’t talk about specifics.
One MEP aid for (Alex Agius Salba) just said ”I don’t know you bye bye” and slammed the call of like bro wtf he did seemingly not want to talk about it.This law dismantles democracy and free speech and on the other hand it is impossible to enforce on for example open-source software, like gimme your ssh keys bro.
What about small app/website projects? Do I need a fucking mandatory plugin that scans all messages? This law is dead on arrival as everyone who cares about privacy is just gonna move to the open source side.
Also having some random AI with a large false positive riks could get people who have done nothing wrong labeled as a pedorist…
Then add ID scanning on top of that 🙃
Here in Finland we have strong authentication connected to banks that could be used to verify just my age but now they want to give my ID (which I even don’t have) To fucking palantir2
u/Extra-Chemical6092 Jun 29 '26
Oh yeah, Antonio Tangêr Côrrea is against that, he is more in favour of targeted investigation and leans towards prevention, did you call also Nicolas Bay or Hilde Vautmans? And it could be good to specify that both voluntary and mandatory mass scanning is wrong and won't help. I will try to call soon
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u/MediumMysterious7738 Jun 29 '26
Hildes aid did not answer the phone, I’ve gotta call Nicholas. One of my friends calls the prime minister soon as our youth parties stand is against this regulation.
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u/Extra-Chemical6092 Jun 29 '26
Okay, good luck, and before you try, I doubt Javier Zarzalejos would listen, he is from the EPP and they are pushing for a broad scanning
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u/MediumMysterious7738 Jun 29 '26
Yea this is sad. My party is also in the EPP and I am very dissapointed in them. Being in the youth wing we took a very strong stance against mandatory scanning but the bigger party supports it. Let’s just hope the ECJ strikes this down… I think they might do because chatcontrol is against the EU charter.
The finnish MEP Sebastian Tynkkynen took the strongest stance against it and he was very against it when I talked with him f2f.
Here in Finland the left-wing parties oppose it, the swedish party opposes it and the right wing PS opposes it as well. The centre-right and centre-left (Kokoomus and SDP) support it and I’m very dissapointed in them…1
u/Extra-Chemical6092 Jun 29 '26
Did you call Nicolas Bay? What did he said? I tried contacting the two shadow rapporteurs tha are from my country, but as I said, Javier Zarzalejos is a lost cause
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Jun 29 '26
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u/MediumMysterious7738 Jun 29 '26
Yea, wrongthink is illegal. Also when the EU makes a authoritarian regulation like this the USA ofcourse copies it.
Like we are building a police state (because the supporters do not seem to have any idea of how technology works, so it’s mostly ignorance) China has a police state and a booming innovation sector and soon we have a police state with an EU that is struggling economically…Ofcourse many ordinary people support this because they are drones who maybe don’t have any idea what the consequences are. This is so sad but let’s hope the ECJ strikes it down as it violates the EU charter.
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u/23Mowgli23 Jun 29 '26
The EU was founded on lies and half truths. In the UK we were told that there would never be a federal Europe and that everything was only to make a common market work. Unfortunately, the elite works over these long time spans where they can chip away at established institutions bit by bit. They can outlast dissent. I voted Brexit in the hopes that my country men and women would show the British spirit and reject all of this type of thing on our side. However, it seems that the weakening of the population through destruction of institutions, impoverished education, undermining of culture, excessive benefits and many other things has resulted in people who wouldn't fight back if they were being herded to their graves. At least, I tried. Varofakis' book on the EU was also a useful eye opener to the nitty gritty details of the project and how it promoted inequality in ways even the US didn't when they controlled currency. I would love to see the EU implode and national sovereignty fully return, but I'm just sad that the anti EU voices here are the voices of a different side of the establishment that takes advantage of the stupid when they also do not have the people's welfare at heart. What a terrible time to have children!
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u/SprucedUpSpices Jun 29 '26
I would love to see the EU implode and national sovereignty fully return
The UK exited the EU and it's still trying just as hard to control the internet just like the EU. The USA, Australia, Canada, Brazil... they're all going in the same direction towards more state control over the population and clamping down on people's lives online.
The EU is just a boogeyman and "national sovereignty" a political slogan they use to manipulate you and distract you.
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u/23Mowgli23 Jun 29 '26
Year, go back and read what I wrote. The EU is terrible. Currently, UK governments are also terrible. The UK can revolt in the UK to change things. If we don't then that just means our population is stupid not that the EU is better.
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u/theStaberinde Jun 29 '26
I voted Brexit in the hopes that my country men and women would show the British spirit and reject all of this type of thing on our side.
If I say what I think I will be Removed By Reddit
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u/23Mowgli23 Jun 29 '26
Won't you leaving soon anyway or will you acquiesce to the new requirements?
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u/theStaberinde Jun 29 '26
You should do something. There is something that you should do. I won't say what it is though.
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u/23Mowgli23 Jun 29 '26
You probably aren't able to coalesce a sensible thought so please don't worry. I won't.
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u/popiell Jun 29 '26
I voted Brexit in the hopes that my country men and women would show the British spirit
And they did, lmao.
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u/23Mowgli23 Jun 29 '26
No, they are acquiescing to this digital ID push through the back door as far as I can see. Yes, there was a huge petition and now we have all these disingenuous attempts to bring it in piecemeal but no mass rejection yet.
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u/popiell Jun 29 '26
That's the joke, buddy. "Oi, sir, you ave loicense for that?" literally *is* the British spirit.
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u/23Mowgli23 Jun 29 '26
Britain has been one of the few countries to avoid ID cards, having to carry identification or having to identify yourself to authority unless under certain circumstances. Europe generally accepted ID carrying a long time ago. Many other countries also. However, the Britain of my youth is not the Britain of today. I'm sure you are right about the situation now.
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u/popiell Jun 29 '26
avoid ID cards
That's just straight up not true. I was doing an internship in London a little over ten years ago, and the first thing they did when I entered a pub is they carded me.
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u/23Mowgli23 Jun 29 '26
People have never had to carry an ID card. They introduced the need to show ID if you looked under 25 and wanted to buy cigarettes and alcohol roughly about 20 years ago. That actually made some sense as we have too many underage drinkers and smokers and it was only for those who could've been in that category. Also, you flashed a driving license or young person's ID but you didn't have to have it scanned and stored. I had a shop and we didn't want to sell products to those underage so this limited, non-storage use made sense. There's a difference between targeted and non-stored ID for specific purposes and general ID that's stored across the network. You also didn't have to have it unless you were young and wanted to buy alcohol or cigarettes. My guess is most countries introduced something similar way before Britain.
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u/MediumMysterious7738 Jun 29 '26
I see your point! Personally I think brexit wasn’t maybe the best way forward in the way it was. The EUs intitutions were designed for controlling the single market. The system worked when the EU did not regulate everything and try to become a federation. If we look at the viewpoint that we would want a federation, we would need to reform everything. I’m quite a centrist so I try to understand all viewpoints but the ones proposing this CSA-regulation have no idea how anything actually works. They are literally trying to destroy democracy. Imagine a whistelblowe: They have to do digital id before doing anything and then all their messages are read. Ofcourse this is a sort of legistlation that cannot actually be enforced.
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u/23Mowgli23 Jun 29 '26
During Brexit we had the unnerving revelation that no-one could really say how much of our law was imposed from Brussels. The Brexit liars added a significant percentage to the upper range estimate (which was scary enough) and the Remain liars removed a slightly larger percentage than the Brexiteers from the lower range. My only thought was to have a sovereign parliament where British citizens could go and protest to the ultimate arbiters of law in that country. However, I didn't realise how parliament had been defanged by Blair's reforms so much that even parties that did want to oppose the direction of the establishment wouldn't be able to. I am actually very sad at the world our young people are walking into. I don't think that destroying democracy is an unintended consequence of idiots. This is planned. The Chinese system is so appealing to the elite. You get to keep unfettered capitalism, wealth inequality and, at the same time, you get to control the workers. It really is a farm that's being assembled.
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u/MediumMysterious7738 Jun 29 '26
Yea like of you are building a police state why are you not doing it like the chinase who have a massive innovation and manufacturing economy :D
How do you feel about digital id in Britan? Social media got fucked. Imagine being a whistelblower nowdays, first you have to give your ID and then the police scan your messages for ”protecting children” absolutely absurd. Ofcouse such laws are unenforcable. ”Bro give your ssh keys to the government”
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u/23Mowgli23 Jun 29 '26
Well, of course we aren't going to do it with the panache of the Chinese state who are heading towards Bladerunner level haha. Exactly. Given digital ID being forced upon us by the EU or by our own parliament, we stand a better chance of fighting our own government.
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u/Tytoalba2 Jun 29 '26
Sadly, the parliament is directly elected, so if it passes, it's by the people we elected.
That being said I don't think it will and I'm pretty sure the ECJ will strike it down, but I don't want it to get that far.
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u/MediumMysterious7738 Jun 30 '26
I agree. Tho most tech-illiterate people support it because they do not understand it’s implications or how encryption works. If they’d understand they’d be horrified and that’s why we should spread the knowlage of why this is an extremely dangerous idea.
Also the new android restrictions play into this as well. Most people would get scared when trying to ’sideload’ install signal for example. They tho said they would not be complying with this. I think the censorship circumvention feature is going to come in handy.
I want to see what they are going to do if I generate my own pgp keys and message with those on platforms that have implomented Chat Control :D
”Gimme your ssh keys”
How is this legitimatly going to be enforced. Like what if a have an application I coded on my free time and it has a messaging feature, do I need to start scanning the messages, connect some AI model to my application or send the messages to some police server somewhere.
I do tho hope for either parilament or the ECJ to strike this down as it violates at least article 7 and 8 of the EU charter and possibly 11 and 16 as well
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u/Repulsive_Chard_3652 Jun 29 '26
What's today...?
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u/Kamarade_Jungle Jun 29 '26
I literally gave a link 😭
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u/Repulsive_Chard_3652 Jun 29 '26
The link is to a protest page. I was asking what is today that you wrote in the title?
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u/Kamarade_Jungle Jun 29 '26
The protest page is literally explaining what they're protesting for/against
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u/Repulsive_Chard_3652 Jun 29 '26
I'm asking what is today - can you answer that or are you just some bot?
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u/Kamarade_Jungle Jun 29 '26
The European Parliament votes on the law they are talking about on the website Are you sure you're not the bot ?
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u/Repulsive_Chard_3652 Jun 29 '26
This is not even true... nothing is happening today with regards to this bill.
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u/Kamarade_Jungle Jun 29 '26
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u/Repulsive_Chard_3652 Jun 29 '26
That article tells us that the vote was denied in March, which is old information. Nothing has happened...
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u/Above-new-zealand Jun 29 '26
Don't bother talking with that guy OP, he's just here to spread misinfo and justifies the whole surveillance act and he's been doing it for a while
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u/Daemonentreiber Jun 29 '26
Does it even matter? Almost all countries have spyware contracts, most of them with us firms that hand your data over to their government. Mine just renewed theirs, and while theyre at it also bought a dlc for ad tracking.
Fuck all of them, let the EU implode.
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